>> Arsenal Mercs Are Fine, Stop Complaining (PvP/PvE)

[DkSharktooth]

Am I the only one who thought it was kinda funny that the whole "Mercs are fine" screenshot was a sub 300k one?

 

I average 600-800k damage in voidstar as pyro spec, so yea mercs are fine for pvp. It also depends if you are padding meters with AE or single target objective playing, arsenal merc as of 1.2c is not very mobile or high hitting, but you can still kill people effectively.

Edited April 25, 2012 by DkSharktooth

[DkSharktooth]

From a PvE PoV, an equally played/geared Sniper/Mara brings more to the table than an Arsenal Merc in terms of DPS and utility. That's unacceptable.

 

Have you completely forgotten about stackable armor debuffs?

[Areaz]

Have you completely forgotten about stackable armor debuffs?

 

Snipers have an armor debuff, AoE bubble, Mara's have BT and predation plus minor AoE heals. Stack snipers/maras, stack the sniper armor debuff, #winning.

 

EDIT: the problem is that does the lower arsenal DPS get made up for by more armor debuffs? I don't think so. Our Mara is doing 1800 DPS on some encounters. That is stupid when I'm fighting for 1400 and our Snipers have np getting up to 1600.

Edited April 27, 2012 by LexiCazam
Inappropriate content

[StaticJoe]

I average 600-800k damage in voidstar as pyro spec, so yea mercs are fine for pvp

 

 

Yet you started this topic with this:

 

 

>> Arsenal Mercs Are Fine, Stop Complaining (PvP/PvE)

 

 

So now which is fine and we should stop complaining about? Arsenal? Or Pyro? I have a level 34 Arsenal Merc, I do not PVP, no FP's, no WZ's, no HM's and no raiding. I have only the gear from loot, rewards and planet commendations--I know in my own strictly PVE game things have changed, I'm certainly not THAT BAD of a player...something is wrong--yes, some of my issues are L2P and I will be the first to admit that...BUT when I'm using the very same attack rotations successful PVP'ers use and I'm still getting my arse handed to me on a regular basis, I'm not the root cause in each and every case...and your screenshot proves nothing other than the ability to take and post screenshots...if the Arsenal Merc were "fine", then why are so many respec'ing to Pyro I wonder...

[DkSharktooth]

Snipers have an armor debuff, AoE bubble, Mara's have BT and predation plus minor AoE heals. Stack snipers/maras, stack the sniper armor debuff, #winning.

 

EDIT: the problem is that does the lower arsenal DPS get made up for by more armor debuffs? I don't think so. Our Mara is doing 1800 DPS on some encounters. That is stupid when I'm fighting for 1400 and our Snipers have np getting up to 1600.

 

That's very good to hear.

With my current Operation setup, we are running 2 maras, 1 sniper, 4 Arsenal BHs, 2 sorc dps in 16 mans.

We are 3/4 HM on 16man so far, clearing last boss tomorrow. (Currently World Ranked 21)

 

Can you link me your parse where your mara is doing 1800dps (assuming its on a raid boss) and 1600dps snipers?

Edited April 27, 2012 by LexiCazam
IC - quote

[tavrinDosa]

The point of whether or not we are still ok at dps is irrelevant, Tracer debuff is reducing the armor but not increasing HSM; its broken and needs to be fixed. a man with one arm can still drive a car, but how about a second arm?

[Aristarco]

Stop complaining, start comparing.

I've played wow pvp for so much time, reaching 2500 rating so i intend to not be a noob in pvp zone, i got one character at rank 69, and another at rank 78 this one is a merc (consider that i had to quit for some time for health problems) so i can consider myself not the best player in the world but as one who knows how to move in a warzone.

As a biochem i enter in wz always with stim (reflex rakata) and the power adrenal (because having full battlemaster gear my crit in fine), i put on the augmented chest, to have a little boost on endurance and aim, so i may consider my bh on the well geared of the server but one of the upper class pvp char.

Having played the Hunter in wow for so many time i put myself in position to kite around terrain obstacles to use the los as you say, but sometimes it can't work, let me do some examples, novara cost, if you have to move from one turret to another, you are dead if a marauder/sniper focus you, not for the dps they can make but because you simply cannot kite them.

Another example today in a voidstar i found a sniper placed in the bridge and all was moving to him, he killed me in 4 shots, and i've used all i could use, stun in advanced cover are useless, so i shielded myself used the rakata medpack, and power surge+rapid scan, while other of my team focus him to survive till his death, well i died, he got 10 meters more range of a bh, he can cast istant that makes 4k+ dmg each, and now they got an improvement of 5%.

The nerf we had in my opinion could be managed in different way, most of all granting more suvivability such as a disengage or something like this, because in an open terrain bh is really too weak to fight other classes, if theese are played by skilled one.

Obviously i'm not speaking of farming newbies, everyone with every class can do it and make numbers in wz, i'm telling that a battlemaster geared sniper or marauder vs an arsenal bh wins 90% in an open area, and this must be fixed somehow.

[uzairzaidi]

Stop complaining, start comparing.

I've played wow pvp for so much time, reaching 2500 rating so i intend to not be a noob in pvp zone, i got one character at rank 69, and another at rank 78 this one is a merc (consider that i had to quit for some time for health problems) so i can consider myself not the best player in the world but as one who knows how to move in a warzone.

As a biochem i enter in wz always with stim (reflex rakata) and the power adrenal (because having full battlemaster gear my crit in fine), i put on the augmented chest, to have a little boost on endurance and aim, so i may consider my bh on the well geared of the server but one of the upper class pvp char.

Having played the Hunter in wow for so many time i put myself in position to kite around terrain obstacles to use the los as you say, but sometimes it can't work, let me do some examples, novara cost, if you have to move from one turret to another, you are dead if a marauder/sniper focus you, not for the dps they can make but because you simply cannot kite them.

Another example today in a voidstar i found a sniper placed in the bridge and all was moving to him, he killed me in 4 shots, and i've used all i could use, stun in advanced cover are useless, so i shielded myself used the rakata medpack, and power surge+rapid scan, while other of my team focus him to survive till his death, well i died, he got 10 meters more range of a bh, he can cast istant that makes 4k+ dmg each, and now they got an improvement of 5%.

The nerf we had in my opinion could be managed in different way, most of all granting more suvivability such as a disengage or something like this, because in an open terrain bh is really too weak to fight other classes, if theese are played by skilled one.

Obviously i'm not speaking of farming newbies, everyone with every class can do it and make numbers in wz, i'm telling that a battlemaster geared sniper or marauder vs an arsenal bh wins 90% in an open area, and this must be fixed somehow.

 

You can not beat every class 1v1... it is literally impossible. Trying playing a powertech against a good marauder / shadowtank. I can guarantee you will feel completely useless. Mercs are made for group play and not 1v1 so you analysis is pointless.

[Aristarco]

the problem is that most of the class in this game can kill all the others in 1v1, operativem snipers, powerteck, assassin, sorcerer, or almost run away from them, stun and sprint, huge defensive cd's, merc simply dies.

[Jaxarale]

With my current Operation setup, we are running 2 maras, 1 sniper, 4 Arsenal BHs, 2 sorc dps in 16 mans.

If this were true... then:

We are 3/4 HM on 16man so far, clearing last boss tomorrow. (Currently World Ranked 21)

could not be true...

 

Which one is it bud?

Which one ya lying about?

 

Fact is no way in the world a 21st ranked progression guild is NOT min/maxing... 4 Arsenal BH's is a waste of 3 slots and about 1k to 1200 sustained dps over the entire fight... NO WAY, sorry let me restate that in case you got confused... NO WAY the 21st ranked guild in the world is that stupid or inept to bring 4 AC...

 

Pick 1 lie and stick with it... when you try and go for two at the same time it just gets messy... kinda like when you try and walk and chew bubblegum at the same time...

Edited April 25, 2012 by Jaxarale

[Harridan]

Can you post at least 3 screenshots of a decent match where you can pull 300k damage per match? I honestly only see around 200k-220k on my server for tankassins at most.

I never take screen shots. Not something I'm usually concerned with. I'm not saying I do it often. In fact I've only done it twice. Once in Voidstar and once in Alderaan Civil war. I run a hybrid spec with DF so I can get some larger numbers there. If you've got a healer and your holding a door or a turret for a full length game, that sort of thing will happen. I generally pull 150-200k.

[DkSharktooth]

If this were true... then:

 

could not be true...

 

Which one is it bud?

Which one ya lying about?

 

Fact is no way in the world a 21st ranked progression guild is NOT min/maxing... 4 Arsenal BH's is a waste of 3 slots and about 1k to 1200 sustained dps over the entire fight... NO WAY, sorry let me restate that in case you got confused... NO WAY the 21st ranked guild in the world is that stupid or inept to bring 4 AC...

 

Pick 1 lie and stick with it... when you try and go for two at the same time it just gets messy... kinda like when you try and walk and chew bubblegum at the same time...

 

Here is proof: http://www.swtor.raidranks.com/#!guild:416

World Rank Tab, Rank #21: Shadow Dragon Universe

sdu.sickguild.com -- Video will be posted there when I finish Rendering.

You sir just got served.

Edited April 25, 2012 by DkSharktooth

[DkSharktooth]

Stop complaining, start comparing.

I've played wow pvp for so much time, reaching 2500 rating so i intend to not be a noob in pvp zone, i got one character at rank 69, and another at rank 78 this one is a merc (consider that i had to quit for some time for health problems) so i can consider myself not the best player in the world but as one who knows how to move in a warzone.

As a biochem i enter in wz always with stim (reflex rakata) and the power adrenal (because having full battlemaster gear my crit in fine), i put on the augmented chest, to have a little boost on endurance and aim, so i may consider my bh on the well geared of the server but one of the upper class pvp char.

Having played the Hunter in wow for so many time i put myself in position to kite around terrain obstacles to use the los as you say, but sometimes it can't work, let me do some examples, novara cost, if you have to move from one turret to another, you are dead if a marauder/sniper focus you, not for the dps they can make but because you simply cannot kite them.

Another example today in a voidstar i found a sniper placed in the bridge and all was moving to him, he killed me in 4 shots, and i've used all i could use, stun in advanced cover are useless, so i shielded myself used the rakata medpack, and power surge+rapid scan, while other of my team focus him to survive till his death, well i died, he got 10 meters more range of a bh, he can cast istant that makes 4k+ dmg each, and now they got an improvement of 5%.

The nerf we had in my opinion could be managed in different way, most of all granting more suvivability such as a disengage or something like this, because in an open terrain bh is really too weak to fight other classes, if theese are played by skilled one.

Obviously i'm not speaking of farming newbies, everyone with every class can do it and make numbers in wz, i'm telling that a battlemaster geared sniper or marauder vs an arsenal bh wins 90% in an open area, and this must be fixed somehow.

 

While I do understand your concerns with other classes, it seems to me that you are not aware of your positioning and cooldowns you and the enemy are using. You do seem to understand the concepts of LOS and use your cooldowns, but you are not doing these things effectively and you simply got out played. You can defeat any marauder / sniper / tankassin, the better ones are much much harder and a very close fight. If you play things right and don't make mistakes, you will win. I realize it is hard to believe that I can do these things, I will just have to get you some video proof.

Edited April 25, 2012 by DkSharktooth

[Pexxle]

You sir, should run for president. I hopped onto forums reading so much fallacy regarding Dps Mercs. It laughable.

[Pexxle]

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. My Darkness/Madness tankassin in BM/Champion tank gear pulled 295k damage, 20 kills, 1 death, 50k protection, 47k healing and 8200 Objective points. Does that mean I'm fine as a dps class?

 

 

Way to be irrelevant...

[Pexxle]

the problem is that most of the class in this game can kill all the others in 1v1, operativem snipers, powerteck, assassin, sorcerer, or almost run away from them, stun and sprint, huge defensive cd's, merc simply dies.

 

There are many strats involved in PvP for survivability, 1v1 etc. Start a more recent thread and i'd be glad to partake in sharing/recieving tips. My point as well as the original posts' point is there is nothing wrong with Dps Mercs. Especially Arsenal. Its more than just tracer missle when dealing with skilled teams. Finally anyone playing Dps merc and not even remotely enjoying themself in PvP should unqueue immediately and return to the their roleplay activities.

[luda-kressh]

This Advanced Class is NOT Balanced towards the gear you have NOW, it is balanced towards the gear you get in End Game PvP / PvE. (Note: This is not in regard to the Armorpen not working)

 

• If you enter warzones in full columi/rakata, stop complaining until you get full Battlemaster / War Hero .
  
• If you are in full champion/recruit, stop complaining untill you get full War Hero.
  
• If you are in mix champion/battlemaster/recruit, stop complaining untill you get full War Hero.
  
• If you do NOT use relics & adrenals, stop complaining about 3k crit heatseeker missiles and start using your cooldowns.
  
• If you are NOT using a 5 stack of tracer missile before shooting a heatseeker missile, and complain about low crit numbers, you need to play smarter.
  
• If you are a clicker and or keyboard turner, you will get owned ALL DAY EVERY DAY no matter how much your class is buffed and other classes are nerfed. Please start keybinding your abilities and things will get better and your reaction time will be faster. If you refuse to keybind, stop complaining.
  
• If your complaining about other classes being overpowered, then you are playing Team Death Match and NOT objective. You don't need to kill a million enemy players to win at any of the warzones, just CC smartly. Stop complaining.
  
• If you are in a PvE Flashpoint or Operation and are NOT top 3 dps with full rakata/campaign gear, you need to pay attention and get some practice on target dummies and you need to get a better computer and better internet.
  
• If you are a casual, you must understand that the developers cannot balance this game to increase a bad players DPS without overbuffing a really good players dps who can play the class to its full potential. So stop complaining for buffs, it's not going to happen.
  
• While we all personally hate the TM nerf and 1.2c Ninja HSM Nerf, we are currently functioning on par with all classes, and slightly better if played correctly. Yes, HSM crits now suck, but your dps is still normal, you're just not criting 14k in PvE and 8K in PvP anymore.
  
• If you are getting spam interrupted in PvP by melee, start learning to fake cast, punt them after they leap to you and go around a pillar/obstacle and heal yourself. You cannot stand there while a melee mashes your face, MOVE-LOS-HEAL. Or....Just play Pyro for PvP it is alot less casting time and more freedom from interrupts. Also keybind powershot to use when TM is interrupted or LOS (Line of sight) behind a pillar and heal.
  
• If you are playing TDM (Team Death Match) in PvP, you are playing it wrong. PvP warzones are objective based, play accordingly.
  
• If you are solo queing and getting rick rolled, get a good premade and you will do the rolling.
  
• If you play 1hr per week, don't expect anything really, stop complaining.
  
• If you have never been a hardcore pvper in any arena type game, and really good at it, don't expect to be amazing at pvp.
  
• If you are a not a gamer and have never hardcore pvp'd on a competitive game, you will never ever beat a player who have been gaming for years. It just will not happen, no matter what class and gear they have, they will always beat you. Think of it like a tornado coming for a house, if it hits it, the house is gone, it's just something that will happen. Stop complaining.
  
• If you get 1-7 medals per pvp match, you are not paying attention, stop complaining.
  
• If you are the only person defending a door in voidstar with 6 enemies, and you let them plant the door, you don't pay attention, stop complaining.
  
• Finally, if this is your 1st MMO / you have never played hardcore enough to see a classes full potential, stop complaining.
  

 

Here is a screenshot of what Arsenal can do in PvP as of today, after all the TM & HSM Nerfs (1.2c). This was a solo que into a pug group, I play the objective NOT TDM. The gear is full Battlemaster with War Hero Mainhand/Offhand Weapons [Augmented]: http://i.imgur.com/p1LeF.jpg While the damage is low, I played purely objective, and the armorpen is not applying due to the current bug. Regardless if the overall damage number is low, I was able to effectively kill every target, whether tank, healer, or dps, on my own. For reference purposes, I average 500k-800k damage per warzone as Merc Pyro PvP, so I would recommend Pyro for PvP, Arsenal for PvE.

• If you are not doing close to this number every match, you are playing it wrong, practice on some training dummies.
  

 

Something had to be said, I can't bother reading these forums anymore. I feel that SWTOR may need to implement some sort of training simulation program to help new people. I know most people reading this thread will be casuals/average players, but please take this thread as a reality check and not an insult.

 

Update: If you have questions or need some tips, I will do the best I can to help, although I may not get to everyone.

 

Hey que up with a good DPS powertech and post that screenshot tough guy. Thanks.

 

Hell que up with a bad DPS powertech and post that one.

Edited April 26, 2012 by luda-kressh

[Baarabas]

Hey que up with a good DPS powertech and post that screenshot tough guy. Thanks.

 

Hell que up with a bad DPS powertech and post that one.

 

Exactly. I don't know what type of carebears play on that server. My server is almost fully Maruader, Engineer, Tank Assassin, PT Pyro now.

 

"Gear up mercs, you will only get pwnd by other war hero geared players then." But you'll own recruits all day!

 

Lol.

[Jaxarale]

With my current Operation setup, we are running 2 maras, 1 sniper, 4 Arsenal BHs, 2 sorc dps in 16 mans.

 

Tks for the link... and as for getting served... I see 3 Arsenal not 4 as you claimed... so lying =/= served. And imagine where you might be if you weren't wasting the 2 extra Arsenal slots... maybe world number 1?

[DkSharktooth]

Tks for the link... and as for getting served... I see 3 Arsenal not 4 as you claimed... so lying =/= served. And imagine where you might be if you weren't wasting the 2 extra Arsenal slots... maybe world number 1?

 

You really don't know when to quit do you?

[_DaGreat]

I average 500k-800k damage per warzone as Merc Pyro PvP, so I would recommend Pyro for PvP, Arsenal for PvE.

 

Ok, interesting read until I got to this. I played 11 WZs last night, the highest damage total of ALL the participants (both sides) was in the mid 400Ks. In the last week I have played about 40 WZs, the highest damage total was in the low 600Ks and the next highest was in the high 400Ks... again ALL participants.

 

So this is either complete BS or you play on a server where people have no clue what they are doing. Either way you lost all creditability with me.

[_DaGreat]

I average 500k-800k damage per warzone as Merc Pyro PvP, so I would recommend Pyro for PvP, Arsenal for PvE.

 

Ok, interesting read until I got to this. I played 11 WZs last night, the highest damage total of ALL the participants (both sides) was in the mid 400Ks. In the last week I have played about 40 WZs, the highest damage total was in the low 600Ks and the next highest was in the high 400Ks... again ALL participants.

 

So this is either complete BS or you play on a server where people have no clue what they are doing. Either way you lost all creditability with me.

[LukeStormstout]

This Advanced Class is NOT Balanced towards the gear you have NOW, it is balanced towards the gear you get in End Game PvP / PvE. (Note: This is not in regard to the Armorpen not working)

 

• If you enter warzones in full columi/rakata, stop complaining until you get full Battlemaster / War Hero .
  
• If you are in full champion/recruit, stop complaining untill you get full War Hero.
  
• If you are in mix champion/battlemaster/recruit, stop complaining untill you get full War Hero.
  
• If you do NOT use relics & adrenals, stop complaining about 3k crit heatseeker missiles and start using your cooldowns.
  
• If you are NOT using a 5 stack of tracer missile before shooting a heatseeker missile, and complain about low crit numbers, you need to play smarter.
  
• If you are a clicker and or keyboard turner, you will get owned ALL DAY EVERY DAY no matter how much your class is buffed and other classes are nerfed. Please start keybinding your abilities and things will get better and your reaction time will be faster. If you refuse to keybind, stop complaining.
  
• If your complaining about other classes being overpowered, then you are playing Team Death Match and NOT objective. You don't need to kill a million enemy players to win at any of the warzones, just CC smartly. Stop complaining.
  
• If you are in a PvE Flashpoint or Operation and are NOT top 3 dps with full rakata/campaign gear, you need to pay attention and get some practice on target dummies and you need to get a better computer and better internet.
  
• If you are a casual, you must understand that the developers cannot balance this game to increase a bad players DPS without overbuffing a really good players dps who can play the class to its full potential. So stop complaining for buffs, it's not going to happen.
  
• While we all personally hate the TM nerf and 1.2c Ninja HSM Nerf, we are currently functioning on par with all classes, and slightly better if played correctly. Yes, HSM crits now suck, but your dps is still normal, you're just not criting 14k in PvE and 8K in PvP anymore.
  
• If you are getting spam interrupted in PvP by melee, start learning to fake cast, punt them after they leap to you and go around a pillar/obstacle and heal yourself. You cannot stand there while a melee mashes your face, MOVE-LOS-HEAL. Or....Just play Pyro for PvP it is alot less casting time and more freedom from interrupts. Also keybind powershot to use when TM is interrupted or LOS (Line of sight) behind a pillar and heal.
  
• If you are playing TDM (Team Death Match) in PvP, you are playing it wrong. PvP warzones are objective based, play accordingly.
  
• If you are solo queing and getting rick rolled, get a good premade and you will do the rolling.
  
• If you play 1hr per week, don't expect anything really, stop complaining.
  
• If you have never been a hardcore pvper in any arena type game, and really good at it, don't expect to be amazing at pvp.
  
• If you are a not a gamer and have never hardcore pvp'd on a competitive game, you will never ever beat a player who have been gaming for years. It just will not happen, no matter what class and gear they have, they will always beat you. Think of it like a tornado coming for a house, if it hits it, the house is gone, it's just something that will happen. Stop complaining.
  
• If you get 1-7 medals per pvp match, you are not paying attention, stop complaining.
  
• If you are the only person defending a door in voidstar with 6 enemies, and you let them plant the door, you don't pay attention, stop complaining.
  
• Finally, if this is your 1st MMO / you have never played hardcore enough to see a classes full potential, stop complaining.
  

 

Here is a screenshot of what Arsenal can do in PvP as of today, after all the TM & HSM Nerfs (1.2c). This was a solo que into a pug group, I play the objective NOT TDM. The gear is full Battlemaster with War Hero Mainhand/Offhand Weapons [Augmented]: http://i.imgur.com/p1LeF.jpg While the damage is low, I played purely objective, and the armorpen is not applying due to the current bug. Regardless if the overall damage number is low, I was able to effectively kill every target, whether tank, healer, or dps, on my own. For reference purposes, I average 500k-800k damage per warzone as Merc Pyro PvP, so I would recommend Pyro for PvP, Arsenal for PvE.

• If you are not doing close to this number every match, you are playing it wrong, practice on some training dummies. I do realize that my arsenal damage for pvp as of 1.2c has been nerfed by approximately 100k-300k per warzone, depending on the map.
  

 

Something had to be said, I can't bother reading these forums anymore. I feel that SWTOR may need to implement some sort of training simulation program to help new people. I know most people reading this thread will be casuals/average players, but please take this thread as a reality check and not an insult.

 

Update: If you have questions or need some tips, I will do the best I can to help, although I may not get to everyone.

 

They are not fine. The tracer missile armor reduction debuff is not working.

[DkSharktooth]

They are not fine. The tracer missile armor reduction debuff is not working.

 

While the "ARMOR PEN" from the debuff Cylinder is not applying, PvE Merc DPS is fine.

Would you rather have them nerf the base damage MORE and have it only increase once you have a 5 stack up and the cylinder? That would be worse. They appear to be leaving it "broken" in order to not reduce the base damage without armorpen, just consider it as armorpen applied into it, but your damage won't increase with more debuffs.

[Elkirin]

Not a bad post OP, I agreed with many of your points but the generalistions make me wonder if the entire post is flawed

 

ie.. please stop equating casual to Bad, it was not necessary.

 

Speak to people not down to them, put a list of suggestions forward to improve gameplay and this could have been a sticky quality post.

 

I actually do agree with the core of many of your statements, I just find the tone they were written in to be one only useable on an anon forum system.

 

 

Good luck,

Edited April 26, 2012 by Elkirin