Sniper Buffs!

[Eddizel]

Useless buff is useless... Marksman is not viable for PvE-operations due to their bad energy-regen and Lethality-Snipers are still 100-150 DPS behind Sorcs in raids.

 

If anything they need to buff Cull, Weakening Blast and Corrosive Grenade.

 

You have trouble managing energy in PVE as marks?...................ok.....................

 

series of shots and takedown buffs are still useful for lethality as filler between dots and culls, we will take what we can get.

[Eddizel]

It doesn't matter in the laughably easy Ops, but my Sorc easily out-DPS my Sniper and even my Merc is doing allmost the same DPS as my Sniper.

 

I'm just comparing characters I play myself, and my Sniper is the most useless DD in an operation, especially when skilled as MM.

 

World 6th 16 man 4/4 HM (and world boss) denova guild.

 

We used 4-5 snipers on every kill. Pulling anywhere from 1200-1400 dps.

 

Better change your definition of "useless", because virtually every dps spec is viable if the player is competent.

[Mythicrose]

It doesn't matter in the laughably easy Ops, but my Sorc easily out-DPS my Sniper and even my Merc is doing allmost the same DPS as my Sniper.

 

I'm just comparing characters I play myself, and my Sniper is the most useless DD in an operation, especially when skilled as MM.

 

You're entitled to berate your own characters and express your opinion on the class. Seeing how you wrote down you had energy issues as MM, I'm more inclined to believe you're not executing your sniper's potential the same as your sorc's (that you seem to favor). If snipers (MM or not) were useless for pve as you contented a few posts ago, the top guilds clearing content sure as heck wouldn't be bringing any.

[Mythicrose]

Better change your definition of "useless", because virtually every dps spec is viable if the player is competent.

 

Spot on.

[The-Smasher]

It doesn't matter in the laughably easy Ops, but my Sorc easily out-DPS my Sniper and even my Merc is doing allmost the same DPS as my Sniper.

 

I'm just comparing characters I play myself, and my Sniper is the most useless DD in an operation, especially when skilled as MM.

 

Your a bad sniper if you can't out dps a sorc while lethality build.

 

This Marksman buff is very needed and I think this will make marksman more than viable for pve content.

 

On a side note I still don't think marksman will be very practical PVP it's simply too much white damage/deflections. I know it can be done I just think lethality will still be better.

Edited April 24, 2012 by The-Smasher

[nikthebeast]

On a side note I still don't think marksman will be very practical PVP it's simply too much white damage/deflections. I know it can be done I just think lethality will still be better.

 

I can't seem to decide on which one I like better. The downside of lethality is, ironically, also its strength. Namely, its dots. In a marksman spec your CC and utility is much stronger. It only breaks on actively causing damage. I've also played around with mods and found that getting around 80-100 alactrity is extremely useful for markmen snipers. Target acquired turns you into a machine gun, and just adding that bit of extra alactrity means the % increase adds up even more. I forget what they're called but I use 2 enchants with power/alac. The double-tap with SoS is a nice touch as well. It is also easier to maintain distance and therefor less attention unlike when in lethality where the corrosive grenade is a very obvious sign to "Hullo, guys. I'm the squishest of the sniper specs, kill me now!"

 

At the same time, it is hard to argue against the usefulness of all that internal damage. However, I feel like I am in a lot more controll as a marksman and you do not have the same need to setup your main attacks.

 

But yeah, I'm on neither side at the moment. Still going back and forth.

[Lithy]

A good way to buff marksman, and marksman only, would be to have rapid fire also increase the damage of the next two SoS's by X amount.

[Crankyhobo]

World 6th 16 man 4/4 HM (and world boss) denova guild.

We used 4-5 snipers on every kill. Pulling anywhere from 1200-1400 dps.

Better change your definition of "useless", because virtually every dps spec is viable if the player is competent.

 

This is great news, would you be so kind as to post some logs from your snipers, with 5+ it shouldn't be too hard to convince someone. We'd love to look over their performance for ourselves.

[sheltem]

Definitely NOT minimal! I use Ambush and SoS a ton as Lethality, and Snipe once every minute. And every sniper uses Takedown - the only thing I'm missing out on is FT.

 

I agree 100%. Whenever I am at a burn phase during a boss fight, I pop target acquired before cull, which allows me to sneak in ambush and series of shot, before my cd is up for cull.

[psi_overtake]

A good way to buff marksman, and marksman only, would be to have rapid fire also increase the damage of the next two SoS's by X amount.

 

That sounds good, but RF still has a long CD =/

[Infalliable]

Definitely NOT minimal! I use Ambush and SoS a ton as Lethality, and Snipe once every minute. And every sniper uses Takedown - the only thing I'm missing out on is FT.

 

Snipe is not a very important power for Lethality and overall contibutes relatively little to your DPS. As you said, if you use it every minute it is 1 out of every 40 GCDs. Ambush is also pretty rarely used as Lethality, especially compared to Marksman. They are not staple powers by any means. They are both filler when you have an ambundance of energy and are in cover.

 

SoS is used as Lethality as a standard rotation power. For PVE, this is the only always used power that is buffed (with takedown also be used when available). Overall, this is a ~1% increase in overall DPS w/o going through the detailed math (a 5% buff to something that accounts for 1/5 of your attacks as a ballpark back of the envelope calc).

 

Therefore, while it benefits lethality it is not a large overall impact especially when you compare it to the other 2 specs which was the main point of the post. You're looking at around a 1-2% increase in DPS as lethality.

 

For PvP, it is a bigger impact though . . . and the intial reach was probably a bit conservative. Takedown and SoS are key powers in the rotation and used basically in each fight.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Infalliable

[Tenacity]

I'm going to do some dps tests today and see how marksman matches up to lethality now. These buffs definitely impact marksman more than lethality, but marksman wasnt too far behind before this patch, it might actually be able to keep up with lethality now.

[Fled]

Snipe is not a very important power for Lethality and overall contibutes relatively little to your DPS. As you said, if you use it every minute it is 1 out of every 40 GCDs. Ambush is also pretty rarely used as Lethality, especially compared to Marksman. They are not staple powers by any means. They are both filler when you have an ambundance of energy and are in cover.

 

SoS is used as Lethality as a standard rotation power. For PVE, this is the only always used power that is buffed (with takedown also be used when available). Overall, this is a ~1% increase in overall DPS w/o going through the detailed math (a 5% buff to something that accounts for 1/5 of your attacks as a ballpark back of the envelope calc).

 

Therefore, while it benefits lethality it is not a large overall impact especially when you compare it to the other 2 specs which was the main point of the post. You're looking at around a 1-2% increase in DPS as lethality.

 

For PvP, it is a bigger impact though . . . and the intial reach was probably a bit conservative. Takedown and SoS are key powers in the rotation and used basically in each fight.

 

I have worked a rotation where i also use Ambush every cooldown:

 

SS (if no debuff previously applied) then CG>CD>WB>Cull>SoS>Ambush>Cull>RS

 

By trying to maximize on the buffs we just got, this rotation can be pulled off BEFORE your strong dots downgrade to weaker versions, and is very sustainable...pulled a 5-6 min parse without blowing adrenaline probe.

[DroidDreamer]

My sniper always felt a little underpowered so I am grateful for these changes. I'd quit using snipe in PvP in favor of Frag Nade. Might consider using it again. Snipers in other games are characterized in part by longer channel/shooting times but great damage. We always felt a little underpowered in the damage arena.

 

BTW, the improved Plasma Probe has made it's way into my rotation in PvP. IP (spec'd to include 30% snare) + PP gives great damage initially, plus a DOT, plus a crucial two seconds to drop into cover and pop defensive cooldowns or drop Explosive Probe and get Series of Shots going on the target.

 

One negative effect of these improvements which is really not that bad: More Snipers in PvP.

[Seyyah]

4 months of beating our heads against a brick wall

 

indeed my friend

[swifferdude]

Useless buff is useless... Marksman is not viable for PvE-operations due to their bad energy-regen and Lethality-Snipers are still 100-150 DPS behind Sorcs in raids.

 

If anything they need to buff Cull, Weakening Blast and Corrosive Grenade.

 

ur saying tht MM's have horrible energy generation, when corrosive dart & grenade cost 20 energy, and then cull with 30? thts 70 energy right ther. with MM I feel like I never run out of energy, while still dishing out TONS of dmg. and they already nerfed cull, I doubt they're gona buff it now

[Enexemander]

I'm trying full MM in PVP right now.

 

It still feels lackluster. There's just too much running around for a straight up single target damage build to be as effective as either engineering or lethality.

 

I don't even think it matches lethality for 1v1 burst, sadly.

[nikthebeast]

I don't even think it matches lethality for 1v1 burst, sadly.

 

It definitely does. I'm having a much easier time on 1vs1 fights and the delayed burst of cull(putting up dots+WB) can be downright catastrophic. Corrosive grenade have a nasty habit of affecting targets you do not want to and if you refrain from using it, your damage suffer quite badly. Mainly a huttball problem but due to dots being dots they can cause havoc on other players CC(while also rendering most of ours useless). Lingering toxins in this regard can be a liability as well, especially when preventing caps/capping, while at the same time not really doing any real damage.

 

Granted I am using this; http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400bcrddRsRhZbIZG.1 which isn't a full MM build(along with 2 power/alactrity enchants). Hence the points in Deadly Directive. Been using this for two days now and I'm doing very well. The alactrity may not seem like much it makes all the difference.

 

But I wouldn't say it is a clear cut choice. I can only say that right now, I'm doing a whole lot better in the afformentioned MM-build.

[BubbleDncr]

So, after 1.2 came out, I had switched from Pure MM to MM/Engineering hybrid because the damage between the two seemed relatively the same, but there was slightly more mobility on on the hybrid build, and I found energy to be a whole lot easier to manage. I'm in about half columi/half rakata gear, and am no where close to being the best Sniper in the world

 

Just tested the two against my target dummy. In an 8 minute test with the hybrid build, I got 1130 dps. For Pure MM, I did three shorter tests (3 minute, 4 minute, and 6 minute), and I got 1181, 1117, and 1112 dps. I seem to be having an issue with pure MM where the dummy will make me leave combat earlier than I intend to, hence why the tests are shorter than the hybrid one. But in general, it seems like the longer the test with pure MM goes, the less dps I have.

 

Link to MM/Engineering parse = http://www.torparse.com/a/15620

Link to longest MM test = http://www.torparse.com/a/15727

 

So I will probably stick with my hybrid build for now.

[VulcanLogic]

With a quick look...

 

It's about a 4% total DPS increase for marksman since snipe, followthrough, ambush, takedown, and SoS make up the vast majority of their DPS. Minimal impact on Lethality and moderate impact on engineering.

 

Overall, the snipe change is very welcome. It was a pretty poor skill before in terms of damage/energy. This makes it more attractive.

 

Well, Lethality still uses SoS and Takedown on cooldown, and uses Ambush as filler. Checking back on my logs these three abilities make up about 20% of damage, so buffing those 5% is about a 1% increase.

[Carbonated]

yeah i dont believe that the 5% buff to core skills of sniper is actually useful. I mean 5% isnt much 50 per 1k big deal. What I think they need is some sort of shot like Tracer missile but something more inline with the class, say perhaps Making snipe put a stacking debuff that increases ambush by 5% per debuff. And make the 20% armor debuff do something like 20% less chance to parry/dodge on your shots. Because right now the 2 problems with the class besides the damage output is the fact that in pvp most classes will deflect your shots while every class can ignore your core mechanic.

 

I mean the cover idea when thrown on their idea wall probably looked good. But the rest of the ideas under it just reduced it to something that shouldve been trashed.

[FallenViking]

I think one thing that the snipers who are having a hard time need to understand is WHAT OUR ROLE IS! I run with a very powerful pvp guild, I run premades exclusively and am on the team to run Rated. I am a solid choice and was selected, not because I can top the damage charts every game as a MM (which I generally can, but I also run with other powerful players who can pull 700-800k), but because I am the best single-target burst nuker to take down healers and support marked-fire targets.

 

A MM sniper is not designed to run around and rack up damage, if you are doing that, keep enjoying getting your butt kicked. A MM sniper at its true max potential is one that runs with team support and keeps the healers dead all game so the rest of the team can do their jobs. It's not the best damage numbers, because you are killing them too fast for them to heal up and whittle them down again, but you are still killing them! A good MM sniper will be the one who might only have 350-400k damage, but out of 60-70 kills will have 30-40 killing blows from keeping the healers dead the whole game.

 

Anyway, just my observation on MM snipers, I love mine and I enjoy playing it, and the biggest thing I see other snipers doing wrong is trying to fill roles they were not meant to - you are the best at nuking healers and providing cover fire, do that and win the game, don't worry about who has the best score!

 

And back on topic, from the point of view of a support-nuker healer killer, the buffs were a very pleasant surprise! I already killed sorcs in under 3 seconds, now it's down to 2 seconds! Consistently getting 5.5k-6.5k hits now in warzones since the patch, and that is with just my self-buffs and cooldowns, not with the damage buff you can find in-warzone.

[Irenicus_Jon]

I have switched back to MM. I know it is still slightly less DPS compared to Lethality, but Lethality is slow and clunky in PvP. Lethality needs too much time to setup and has trouble switching targets in my opinion.

 

What I want to know is whether this buff keeps us "within 5%" of other ranged DPS.

[Carbonated]

premades are all well and good but I dont want to run with premades because majority of my server is pugs and it gets boring faster when the competition is low.

[Drungus]

I think one thing that the snipers who are having a hard time need to understand is WHAT OUR ROLE IS! I run with a very powerful pvp guild, I run premades exclusively and am on the team to run Rated. I am a solid choice and was selected, not because I can top the damage charts every game as a MM (which I generally can, but I also run with other powerful players who can pull 700-800k), but because I am the best single-target burst nuker to take down healers and support marked-fire targets.

 

A MM sniper is not designed to run around and rack up damage, if you are doing that, keep enjoying getting your butt kicked. A MM sniper at its true max potential is one that runs with team support and keeps the healers dead all game so the rest of the team can do their jobs. It's not the best damage numbers, because you are killing them too fast for them to heal up and whittle them down again, but you are still killing them! A good MM sniper will be the one who might only have 350-400k damage, but out of 60-70 kills will have 30-40 killing blows from keeping the healers dead the whole game.

 

Anyway, just my observation on MM snipers, I love mine and I enjoy playing it, and the biggest thing I see other snipers doing wrong is trying to fill roles they were not meant to - you are the best at nuking healers and providing cover fire, do that and win the game, don't worry about who has the best score!

 

Finally someone understands