Combat vs Watchman

[Shakydvs]

Hey guys,

 

Im really wanting to work with Combat and give it a fair go, however I just feel U/P with it in wz's. Maybe my rotation is out etc but I feel as though I dont do as much dmg and I’ve become even more squishy in wz’s. I love the run speed boost you get which is a big thing for me but the dps drop doesn’t seem to stack up.

Currently in most wz’s ill average around 150k and 30k healing but in decent ones ill get up to around 300k with 60k healing. As combat spec I barely hit 100k if Im lucky with 0 healing.

 

Is combat still a little gimped compared to Focus and Watchman? What sort of build should I work with for Combat spec? What stats should I consider also (I assume Str, End are the highest to give more susstained dmg and not be so squishy)?

 

Help would be really appriciated.

[TristQueloon]

Not claiming I have the best Combat Build, but this is what I role with http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcZGMrRRrrdGzZM.1

 

 

Combat you have to adapt to lots of situations. Its not like Watchman where you have your straight burns + merc slash rotation.

 

Most fights you should open with (optional)Leap, Zealous Strike, Precision Strike, blade rush, Master Strike, Blade Storm.

If you time it right you will get all 3 hits from Master Strike in and still have just enough time to hit Blade Storm before combat trance and precision is off. This gives you an autocrit, 100% armor bypass Blade Storm.

 

From there its all about precision strike on cooldown, followed with either bladerush spam, or the masterstrike +bladestorm combo when available.

 

With 1.2 You gain centering alot faster. When you have zen ready, hit precision, zen, then bladerush spam. On your last attack while under precision, bladestorm.

 

Also dont forget utility. Your saberthrow roots people for 3 seconds, you also get a massive runspeed boost with transcendence.

[Shakydvs]

awesome post and thanks for the tips, I leveled as watchman and so know it pretty well but stuggle to adapt to combat. Burns also always tick when on someone unlike the artuaru* (not sure how to spell it) form which doesnt go off every often.

[TristQueloon]

awesome post and thanks for the tips, I leveled as watchman and so know it pretty well but stuggle to adapt to combat. Burns also always tick when on someone unlike the artuaru* (not sure how to spell it) form which doesnt go off every often.

 

Yeah, Combat doesnt really shine till 40 when you get bladerush. Once you get bladerush, remove slash from your toolbar and use bladerush anytime you would normally slash. Bladerush hits with both weapons, does more damage than slash, and has 100% chance to do an ataru proc.

[BiggDirty]

Your first problem is that you're using meaningless warzone stats to measure the effectiveness of a spec.

 

Combat does much more burst, and almost as much sustained damage as watchman.

 

Self-healing is irrelevant in high level play, that's what healers are for.

 

80% transcendence is an absolute must in high level play.

 

Combat builds centering just as quickly as watchman now, and using zen + blade rush spam is incredible on demand burst damage.

 

If all you care about is how high you can get on the scoreboard, then you might as well go with focus, because that's a guaranteed 400k+ every single game.

 

Combat is now the superior spec for PvP. The advantages that watchman offered previously have been taken away, and given to combat.

[PAMuttoni]

Combat is more tactical than Watchman.

 

Having 3 roots (Leap, Master Strike and Crippling Throw) and 2 CC (Stasis and Awe) can really help when capturing an objective or by buying time when the ball carrier is near the goal line. The trascendence speed bonus is really great.

 

As a combat sentinel, in most WZs i make around 150-230k damage. Watchman tends to do more than that.

 

Is up to you if you want to be more tactical or more pewpew.

[FadedSpark]

Your first problem is that you're using meaningless warzone stats to measure the effectiveness of a spec.

 

Combat does much more burst, and almost as much sustained damage as watchman.

 

Self-healing is irrelevant in high level play, that's what healers are for.

 

80% transcendence is an absolute must in high level play.

 

Combat builds centering just as quickly as watchman now, and using zen + blade rush spam is incredible on demand burst damage.

 

If all you care about is how high you can get on the scoreboard, then you might as well go with focus, because that's a guaranteed 400k+ every single game.

 

Combat is now the superior spec for PvP. The advantages that watchman offered previously have been taken away, and given to combat.

Self healing? Bro, it's group healing. And you always want to keep your healers happy, especially with the mana/ammo changes. If they need a break, you need zen and cauterize ready to go. Hell, inspiration too if you have it.

[khsolo]

Combat is more tactical than Watchman.

 

Having 3 roots (Leap, Master Strike and Crippling Throw) and 2 CC (Stasis and Awe) can really help when capturing an objective or by buying time when the ball carrier is near the goal line. The trascendence speed bonus is really great.

 

As a combat sentinel, in most WZs i make around 150-230k damage. Watchman tends to do more than that.

 

Is up to you if you want to be more tactical or more pewpew.

 

Awe works for PvP?

[BiggDirty]

That may be true for pve... but in pvp, damage is fast and big. Those little 280 ticks aren't going to win you any games.

 

Dropping massive burst damage on to enemy healers, and providing your team with 80% movement speed at crucial moments, THAT wins games.

 

The healing from watchman is nice, but it's not a necessity.

[CivicTiger]

Self healing? Bro, it's group healing. And you always want to keep your healers happy, especially with the mana/ammo changes. If they need a break, you need zen and cauterize ready to go. Hell, inspiration too if you have it.

 

they aren't really getting much of a break.. the healing from Watchman is still crap lol

[Tiresias]

For PvP? Watchman.

 

The pressure it deals out is simply immense, and judicious use of Zen makes a properly-applied Overload Saber tick off for over 2k 3 times.

 

The problem with Combat is that anyone who is decent will CC you when you use Precision Slash. Out side of Precision Slash the damage on Combat is middle-of-the-road at best.

 

There is also something to be said for slamming home 5k crit Merciless Slashes.

 

Given that time-on-target is low against skilled players, the ability to quickly apply burns and to land single big hits without any setup is very powerful. Having the increased speed and duration on Force Camo helps you get into the enemy backlines and having a 6-second cooldown on Force Kick lets you keep healers from doing their job.

[Reinholt]

Take it from me, if you are overgeared Watchman, because with gear comes probably playing with a pocket healer, if you are solo queue, you need to use Combat, it has the best utility of all the specs at the moment, a stun with ravage, another cc breaker and a huge huge sprint buff which is crucial in a lot of WZ scenarios.

[JustinxDuff]

Combat is just too damn squishy. I would only use it when I had a pocket healer and even then Watchman is better.

[Happy-Killer]

I've seen on multiple threads that combat spec is "squishy-er" than the other 2 trees. i was wondering why this is? I feel like the self healing from watchman helps, but isn't enough to make a huge difference.

[BVCFIVEFIVE]

I've seen on multiple threads that combat spec is "squishy-er" than the other 2 trees. i was wondering why this is? I feel like the self healing from watchman helps, but isn't enough to make a huge difference.

 

I agree 100%.

 

I played Watchman all the way to 48 before I talented into Combat just to try it out, and I wish I would have done it sooner. I absolutely LOVE the Combat spec.

 

It sucks to not have as effective of a Force Leap and the buff to Force Camouflage, but I think the multiple roots, added movement speed, and the snare/root breaking of Combat makes it the more enjoyable tree for me to play.

[Carrais]

I think people need to realize that both specs are now viable.

 

Watchman: Higher sustained damage, minor group healing

 

Combat: Higher burst, more CC and better transcendence

 

Play what you like. Try both and see which works for you. I prefer and LOVE combat.

[Ainianu]

I think people need to realize that both specs are now viable.

 

Watchman: Higher sustained damage, minor group healing

 

Combat: Higher burst, more CC and better transcendence

 

Play what you like. Try both and see which works for you. I prefer and LOVE combat.

 

in my test dummy parses i had Combat come out higher sustained dps on a 10m parse (was highest single target dps of all 3 specs, with watchman not far behind and focus a bit behind that)

 

However... the dps on dummies is not the same as dps in practice in pvp as combat spec's dps is fragile and can be ruined easily if you get cc'd after precision or during master strike. Watchman is not so vulnerable. In PvE i think Combat will generally come out higher and in PvP its likely fairly even imo.

 

It really comes down to what 'else' they offer to dps.

 

Combat : extra immobilises, +15% in combat movement, faster transcendance, camo breaks root/snare.

 

Watchman: better inturrupts, healing.

 

When it comes down to practice in pvp the healing is a BIG factor, and it makes the most difference in any 1v1 situation, or even 1v2 where Combat spec's strength lies more in its mobility, moving between objectives fast in novare/alderaan and just amazing in huttball.

 

It comes down to personal playstyle/preference. I actually swap between both spec's a lot, every now and again i get a game where i really wish i was the other spec so then i respec for a while.

 

I personally have spent most time as watchman since 1.2, but currently back in combat spec and with 4 peice war hero set and both lightsabers... it is really heavy hitting now

[Knight_Marshal]

Which one for PvE? All I need is a great spec to enjoy the story with. I will probably run around with Kira, since she will be my padawan and I am kookie that way.

[Ainianu]

Which one for PvE? All I need is a great spec to enjoy the story with. I will probably run around with Kira, since she will be my padawan and I am kookie that way.

 

i leveled mostly as combat spec and really enjoyed it, but PvE is so easy all the way to 50 that i do not think it matters which spec you use. Experiment and find what you enjoy the most

[Spungey]

you can't go wrong with watchman..

 

you have these Combat fanboys and it's the same people over and over again who play a spec that can't sustain its damage, and is vulnerable to everything any class throws at it.

 

You fail at Watchman if you can't pull more dps than combat. Plain and Simple!!! Watchman is far superior and has been proven over and over in PvE

 

but it's okay...choose what you wanna play. Whatever comes naturally.

 

I play on Elysium, and out of all the sent/mara's...I know of only 2 who play Combat, and they barely do anything. So many CC's to minimize the Precision Slash buff. It's pointless.

 

and btw, watchman heals aren't over-rated. Every burn crit is healing me for 359...And having 50% chance to crit makes it very valuable. Say what you want..In the end, watchman>combat

Edited May 2, 2012 by Spungey

[bliapis]

personally i tried the tree for a couple of days both on pvp and raid. the spec is solid.

 

it has nice cc and u can control your burst when precision is up BUT i went back to watchman because i feel that the dots running while i dont even hit, the passive healing, the shorter interrupt and the shorter charge, all these little things make the watchman a better spec for me in pvp.

 

in pve, the combat is okey but cant have sustained damage at the magnitude of watchman.

[Derian]

Your first problem is that you're using meaningless warzone stats to measure the effectiveness of a spec.

 

Combat does much more burst, and almost as much sustained damage as watchman.

 

Self-healing is irrelevant in high level play, that's what healers are for.

 

80% transcendence is an absolute must in high level play.

 

Combat builds centering just as quickly as watchman now, and using zen + blade rush spam is incredible on demand burst damage.

 

If all you care about is how high you can get on the scoreboard, then you might as well go with focus, because that's a guaranteed 400k+ every single game.

 

Combat is now the superior spec for PvP. The advantages that watchman offered previously have been taken away, and given to combat.

 

I disagree. It heals everyone in the operation that is nearby, this includes healers. On a good game you can do 75k+ in healing, it may not seem like a lot, but when you consider over healing does not get factored in, IMO it's a big big plus. Also the same thing that trigs the group healing, puts auto crits on your burns. It''s a great thing.

 

Combat in the end, should actually do more damage than Watchman, it's just watchman has higher survivability and more sustained DPS. This is the same reason Tank Assassins have high damage totals is because they are able to stay in the fight longer. Same as any tank.

 

I believe Combat is much better, but what needs to be seen is it's fragility. It requires more support than Watchman. Those heals could be going to something more important, like a tank keeping a healer alive. IMO Watchman is still superior, but I also realize it is very very subjective.

 

Watchman are still superior in controlling healers and casters as well. The utility of the extended and faster force camo is also useful for sneaking out of busy firefights and attacking weak side objectives.

[Derian]

That may be true for pve... but in pvp, damage is fast and big. Those little 280 ticks aren't going to win you any games.

 

Dropping massive burst damage on to enemy healers, and providing your team with 80% movement speed at crucial moments, THAT wins games.

 

The healing from watchman is nice, but it's not a necessity.

 

Burst damage is meaningless if you don't get the KB. A 6 second interrupt cannot be underestimated.

[Derian]

personally i tried the tree for a couple of days both on pvp and raid. the spec is solid.

 

it has nice cc and u can control your burst when precision is up BUT i went back to watchman because i feel that the dots running while i dont even hit, the passive healing, the shorter interrupt and the shorter charge, all these little things make the watchman a better spec for me in pvp.

 

in pve, the combat is okey but cant have sustained damage at the magnitude of watchman.

 

This is a very good point. Against tanks, you are dealing much more elemental damage, also, the burns stick whether you hit or not. This is CRUCIAL against tanksins with their high defense.

 

Almost everything combat has is mitigated by armor reduction. Actually it's everything besides Cauterize. For Watchman a buffed Cauterize, and Overload Saber all deal elemental damage and if you miss they still apply. If you miss or get disrupted during the Combat Combo you are immediately at a disadvantage.

 

As one poster pointed out, if someone knowledgeble sees that Precision Slash buff up and CC's or vanishes, it's basically a combo breaker.

[Funick]

As one poster pointed out, if someone knowledgeble sees that Precision Slash buff up and CC's or vanishes, it's basically a combo breaker.

 

which is how I've been crushing the new wave of combat players with my watchman. watchman doesn't rely on a combo and dots keep ticking while stunned.

 

you guys say how combat should win in high lvl play but the best can completely ruin most of combat's damage and don't even need one of the few classes with a cleanse to help them, everyone has a stun.