mrdert Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Being that there is very little open world pvp, and most fights in war zones are not 1v1; how can it be determined that any single class is over powered? There's this trooper on my server. Very hard to kill when running with his premade. In war zones, it's like hitting him with a toilet paper roll. I caught the Same trooper alone in tattooine and sliced thru him like butter. In light of this, I have to conclude its not him that's over powered. It's his group properly casting taunts, debuffs, and healing. That's what keeps him melting my face in war zones. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Certain classes are "OP" in 1v1 or 2v2 situations. Where other classes are "OP" in a team environment. Different strokes for different folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaearth Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 So... I take it you supported the constant nerfing of Operative/Scoundrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMunny Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Not only is it never a 1v1 fight, more like 3v1, but the constant zergling CC really makes me scratch my head when someone says "X" is OP nerf them!! There is no way you could possibly tell if a class is OP, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anticept Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Certain classes are "OP" in 1v1 or 2v2 situations. Where other classes are "OP" in a team environment. Different strokes for different folks. Any class with a pocket healer is deadly if not focused down. Any class is deadly in a premade. Pugging vs premades is the main issue these should be separated but with the withering servers there just wouldn´t be enough people to keep these running constantly.. Three top classes at the moment should be toned down and bring balance to pvp maras/sents removing UR/GBTF or seriously adding minutes to it´s cd. Sins/shadows tankbuilds in dps gear lowering the dps output (harder to implement because thread generation in pve would drop). PT/VG pyros burstdamage should drop by about 10% or flameburst/mirror should cost alot more heat/ammo to tone down the procs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Lots of 1vs1 in huttball actually. The other 3 warzones are too zergy. But it is easy to see which class is OP. If there's a lot of them in warzone all the time, it is an OP class. Players in MMO tend to reroll fotm classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHelsing Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Being that there is very little open world pvp, and most fights in war zones are not 1v1; how can it be determined that any single class is over powered? There's this trooper on my server. Very hard to kill when running with his premade. In war zones, it's like hitting him with a toilet paper roll. I caught the Same trooper alone in tattooine and sliced thru him like butter. In light of this, I have to conclude its not him that's over powered. It's his group properly casting taunts, debuffs, and healing. That's what keeps him melting my face in war zones. Discuss. OP in a mmo is defined as the class that causes the most complaints to occur. The most complaints occur when people loose or get killed more than they win, because loosing and getting killed are frustrating. Players that are frustrated have very narrow point of views. A narrow point of view means something is going to get singled out. What ever is singled out is OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zellata Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 OP in a mmo is defined as the class that causes the most complaints to occur. The most complaints occur when people loose or get killed more than they win, because loosing and getting killed are frustrating. Players that are frustrated have very narrow point of views. A narrow point of view means something is going to get singled out. What ever is singled out is OP. OP in an mmo should be defined as class being able to do what they shouldn't be able to do. I.e. kill opponent within a stunlock, have best defensive CDs along with highest burst, etc. P.S. "loose" and "lose" mean two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggDirty Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Any discussion about overpowered classes should be in the context of rated warzones as far as I'm concerned. Operatives are amazing in 1v1, but they are not even close to overpowered in an 8 vs 8 rated warzone setting. Obviously, we don't have the data to back this up currently, but when rated warzones are released, we are going to see a significantly lopsided representation of certain classes within the top 100 teams. Similar to WoW, where 80% of the top 100 teams in 2v2 arena consisted of Druid + Warrior. It was plainly obvious that druids were OP, and they were eventually nerfed. In SWTOR, three of the warzones revolve almost entirely on survivability. Assassins and Marauders are way too hard to kill, in comparison to the damage and utility they bring to the table with guard, taunt, pull, inspiration, trauma, and transcendance. The top rated teams will be overwhelmingly stacked with these 2 classes, and only THEN will it become clear to the community that something definitely needs to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayCrow Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Any discussion about overpowered classes should be in the context of rated warzones as far as I'm concerned. Operatives are amazing in 1v1, but they are not even close to overpowered in an 8 vs 8 rated warzone setting. Obviously, we don't have the data to back this up currently, but when rated warzones are released, we are going to see a significantly lopsided representation of certain classes within the top 100 teams. Similar to WoW, where 80% of the top 100 teams in 2v2 arena consisted of Druid + Warrior. It was plainly obvious that druids were OP, and they were eventually nerfed. In SWTOR, three of the warzones revolve almost entirely on survivability. Assassins and Marauders are way too hard to kill, in comparison to the damage and utility they bring to the table with guard, taunt, pull, inspiration, trauma, and transcendance. The top rated teams will be overwhelmingly stacked with these 2 classes, and only THEN will it become clear to the community that something definitely needs to be done. I could'nt agree more , well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I could'nt agree more , well said Except he's wrong. Population is not directly correlated with balance. No more than Justin Beiber album sales correspond to talent. The OP is right. Only bioware has the proper metrics to determine these things. Edited April 23, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammuelSK Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Except he's wrong. Population is not directly correlated with balance. No more than Justin Beiber album sales correspond to talent. The OP is right. Only bioware has the proper metrics to determine these things. Except you are wrong. Class representation in a ranked enviroment is most definately correlated with class balance. You definately see a trend towards bringing classes that perform extremely well verses class that consistantly underpreform. As for Bioware's metrics.. eh.. I'm no longer sure if they even have proper metrics or are simply unable to read them properly, balance in general is argueably at its worse yet, most of the class changes they have implemented have swung classes too far into the OP or UP ranges and alot of their comments and thoughts on the subject of class performance feel.. amatuerish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malles Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I first started MMO PvP in WoW back in high school. I played a Fury Warrior through Battlegrounds and Arenas, so whenever I came up against any ranged class, particularly Mages and Warlocks, I felt extremely outclassed. I used to rant and rave about it too, but as I got older and wiser I started thinking about those problems. And by the time I left for SWTOR, the only class that gave me any real trouble was Frost Mages, and I solved that problem by getting one on my Arena team. I don't truly believe there is such a thing as overpowered classes. I mainly play melee classes because I love being in the middle of everything tearing everyone apart. I play a Powertech and have so, so much love for my Grapple. So far the only class I'm having problems with is Sorcerers and Sages, and that's only because of the bubble/heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweederland Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Healers are OP: anything that reduces the amount of time you spend running back form a spawn point to an objective is OP. 'The main difference is this: healers take no skill. And if you disagree you clearly are new to the pvp scene. It is an abomination to the concept of balance to allow a single player to commit themselves to the longevity of other players. From the stand point of balance it is not only out of your control as to what side the healers will end up on, but it is a complete negation of skill. Show me an instance when a soldier can live past his own means to accomplish an objective. Show me an instance when a healer isnt a means to and end (Kant says **** you) And show me an instance where a healer does anything but play puppet master: healers don't take skill as much as they require an obedience to their dps masters. Go ahead play a healer, you only expose yourself as incapable of of achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoshzius Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I can say a class is overpowered under a few observations. Since RotHC I have only seen one overpowered class: Middle tree scoundrels/operatives. I say this because when you are walking along, and suddenly you are stunned until you are near-dead/dead, there seems to be a little bit of an unfairity there. Especially if you are a vanguard focusing on defences. I also can tell this because I have played a high level operative with that tree and from personal experience it is too easy to kill someone almost instantly and get away if there is any trouble. Unless I get enough people hunting me down I can essentially keep getting away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeses Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Not only is it never a 1v1 fight, more like 3v1, but the constant zergling CC really makes me scratch my head when someone says "X" is OP nerf them!! There is no way you could possibly tell if a class is OP, period. You don't think that an operative getting the ball in 1/2 the time it would take for the #2 fastest class is op? As a sin I used to be able to get the ball most of the time, or atleast be at the player who got it when they did, however now I'm left in the dust in comparison. I'm about as far away from the ball carrier as the rest of my team is to me... Operatives are fotm. As a general rule at 55 atm, there is at least 4 per match... out of a possible 16 slots. so 1/4 of the game is all 1 of 8 class options. However quite often there would be more. Last night i was coming up against 3, one would zerg ball to grab, one would go side to prepare for a throw, and a 3rd would be waiting in position for the ball to be thrown to them on our top ramp once it had been scored. their ability is being abused because its too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarGame Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 A lot of players aren't worth much on their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princz Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 All classes are weak .... The only problem for my enemies is that it is me who is overpowered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdert Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Holy necrothread batman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Esper- Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) I can say a class is overpowered under a few observations. Since RotHC I have only seen one overpowered class: Middle tree scoundrels/operatives. So interesting. But when this class was dramatically nerfed many many times and again, you told, oh, so pretty, when your own class, for example, was owerpowered, you told, no my own class is not overpowered, this is real balance in game, i like it, let be honest yourself with you . And now we obtained a single bonus ability as scamper and you become like a whining puppy. Shame on you. Edited April 19, 2013 by -Esper- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoshzius Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 So interesting. But when this class was dramatically nerfed many many times and again, you told, oh, so pretty, when your own class, for example, was owerpowered, you told, no my own class is not overpowered, this is real balance in game, i like it, let be honest yourself with you . And now we obtained a single bonus ability as scamper and you become like a whining puppy. Shame on you. I will be honest and admit I have no clue what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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