Hyp's Gunnery Commando Tips

[rsomazzi]

Hi.

 

I've been playing a gunnery Commando since release and have been having quite some fun with the class. 1.2 and class balance being borked by BW aside, I wanted to share what I've learned in warzones. I usually don't have the contiguous hours to sink into PvE, although I'd like to. So my focus has been PvP since 50. Below are a few things I've learned that work well. VR 79, 2 pieces WH, rest BM. Yes, I would say the PvP experience is most definitely tied to how well you're geared.

 

1. Concussion Charge

- I use this underused gem to send Imps flying over the ledges in Voidstar or off catwalks in Huttball. Nothing brings a smile like dumping 1, 2 and even 3 Imp chumps over the edge and to instant death. I stay in the "sweet spot" range near the edges while helping my team with the door. Remember you don't need to be on the bridge to dump Imps, as there are the edges perpendicular to the bridge that have no walls (on the side where the doors are). Use them. Also remember as Imps die on part 2, they have to run across the bridge so you have opportunities to make it rain Imps during the entire stage.

 

- Go Imp Fishing. Use C. Charge after luring an Imp to within "the chump dump" zone (move in the direction of the ledge). When inside the zone, simply walk through the Imp (no collision makes this possible) so he/she is between you and the ledge, then pop CC and send them into the abyss. Works well with melee classes who won't leave you alone. When you use CC as much as I do, you get to learn exactly where you can stand in relation to where the Imp is and the ledge, use CC to dump their !@# over. "Insta kill dps? I'll take 2, please." Also remmeber if you didn't quite land them over the edge, you can use Stock Stike to send back over the edge to correct that. In fact stock strike is great anywhere near a ledge in addition to C. Charge.

 

- Use CC to harass a healer. Not only does it push them away from their team, but the small duration ensnare helps keep them from fulfilling their only role - healing. Knock them out of range, keep them off balance. Just because you can't solo a healer even after 1.2 doesn't mean you can't take them out of the role for a healthy duration [Dead Healer = Live Healer who isn't healing]. Just attacking a healer often forces them to focus on that fact (you) which detracts them from doing their job. Meanwhile, the rest of your team can help burn down the others even if you are the solo one attacking the healer. When I see no one attacking a healer, I open up on them and more often than not, it really helps. Try Tech Override + Concussion Charge here.

 

2. In Civil War - I never go head first into the fray. I do tend to hit mid first with my team, butI go under the battlements on the left or right, never straight towards the node. I launch a Cryo to nail the first Imp to walk closest to the node to force him/her to pop break. The more Imps on break CD early on, the better. I hug the side of the ramp on the Repub side (out of sight of the Imp side of the node) so as to stay out of LOS of the dumber Snipers and ranged who sit out in the open. The more you force Imps to walk or change position to get in LOS of you, the better for you. Use the plethora of architecture in Mid to your advantage.

 

3. Huttball - Eh, I suck at Huttball. I am the one who needs help here. lol. Great for Concussion Charge tho. I use that a lot. Really. A lot. I've come to the conclusion this is the weakest map for Troops, built more for pullers and stealthers than it is for us. But Concussion Charging Imps into the green goo and fire is definitely something to be practiced and admired when you get right. Follow up dumping one into the goo or fire with a Cryo grenade or FA if you've upgraded it to the ensnare.

 

4. Novare - On open, I like to run behind the Southern hut and flank the Imps from the south. Then I get between them and the hut and Concussion Charge them away from the hut toward their spawn. Southern is important imo because it puts your side's foothold on the map within stone's throw of the Imp spawn point. Ranged here are great because you can slow or stun any reinforcements coming out of the gate and not only hinder their ability to take South but also reinforce East or West nodes.

 

5. Voidstar - Similar to Civil War, significant amounts of architecture to weave in and out of (columns), use LOS to cut down on incoming dps and force Imps to move to get you. Mortar Volley is great on doors or anytime Imps are clumped together like a short bus full of kids. So is Plasma Grenade or Tech Override + Plasma G.

 

In General

- Gunnery Commandos are forced to turret to do deal the lion's share of our dps. Because of auto aim, this isn't as bad as you think. I can't tell you the number of Imps I've burned down sitting perfectly still and not reacting to getting hit. I stick to my rotation [grav x 3 > DR > grav x 2 > HIB] and FA when CoF procs. Sitting still has it's drawbacks but trying to move away as a Trooper with all the gap closing abilities on the Imp side is pretty futile. IMO, it's better to lay down a wall of lead on the way down than it is to move and deal less dps and still go down.

 

- Tech Override is Concussion Round's best friend. If, after a Cryo, an Imp pops break, this combo will send them instantly into a nice duration stun (assuming Resolve isn't full) or any time their break is on CD. Use this gem often not only when you're getting harassed, but also to take out a healer or another key role in the early stages of a fight. Not only will this help your team but the earlier you use it, the more often you can pop this combo in the span of a single Wz. It's great slowing down Imps in Novare on their way to reinforce or take another node. Slow them down if you can't kill them outright.

 

- Full Auto feels more effective than ever post 1.2. It seems to fire for much longer and the damage is far clearer than before. Upgrade it and use it on CoF procs.

 

- Demo Round record for me so far is 7440k but usually lands between 5-6k. It definitely got bumped, so use it often with the GR debuff.

 

Some 1.2 observations:

Commandos were moderately weak (assuming equal gear and play) against Marauders and Juggs pre 1.2, and post 1.2 this only got worse. Since 1.2, I've noticed MANY more tanks in Wzs and this means more often getting chain interrupted. How BW didn't see this coming is explained as easily anything else "they didn't see" before. I've been testing software for 14 years and these kinds of issues are seen early by even green testers. I don't know why they're allowing classes to be chain interrupted, but I probably don't have to explain to you what it means for a turret dps class when they can't lay down their only dps ability that depends on casting.

 

Is the sky falling for Troopers? No, I don't think so. Did we get handed significant challenges beyond a measure of fairness? I'd say yes because the Trooper was a poor 1v1 class even before 1.2 which was made only worse since. But I will give BW a little time to balance the classes out. My litmus test for cancelling will be when my class is no longer fun to play, not the patch notes. When that happens, I will be gone for sure because I am not interested in rerolling a toon in response to code changes to my main. Other than porking class balance, I like 1.2.

 

Warzones makeup for Empire is shifting to Tanks + Healers. Very tough to beat even with a good team on Republic side. On my server, there seems to be a shortage of healers and tanks to combat this with. And this is the glaring class imbalance made crystal clear. A specific group make up on one side dominates a good team of any other make up on the other except if the makeup is the same. If I face this makeup on the Empire side and do not have equal tanks and healers on mine, it won't matter what stars I am grouped with, we won't win. The PvE model of strict class group makeup shouldn't apply as strictly in PvP, otherwise what you get is what we have today. And you know right now damn well what rated Wzs are going to look like.

 

Hope this gives some Commandos something new to try out. The Concussion Charge is a great ability and very powerful when used effectively. Tech Override, Reserve Powercell, and smart use of Concussion Charge are all underused, from what I've seen in Warzones. Practice often with it and use it intelligently; make Imps land where you want them to and use it offensively to keep a player from doing his/her job (healing). On a 15s upgraded cooldown, it can be used a lot. Look at your abilities page, and think about how you can use ability X different than you've done in the past given the warzone, the architecture inside, and your rotation(s).

 

Good Hunting, Troopers.

Edited April 23, 2012 by rsomazzi
minor

[MasterRodimus]

You need to respec to assault if you want to be top DPS in WZ again.

 

YOu need to change your game play, but Gunnery is still best for PVE.

[Charlimit]

Charge no longer gets the 10 seconds decrease.. so with set bonus its 20 seconds Edited April 23, 2012 by Charlimit

[rsomazzi]

I'll admit I've never spec'd assault from what I've read about, but the interesting thing is I broke my pre 1.2 dps Warzone record of 409k with a 429k within a day of 1.2's release. I don't hit 400k often, but 300's is common. I am pretty happy with Gunnery still and am usually near the top in dps each match. I don't have a reason to respec at the moment. I don't know what others are doing or how they're geared, but that's me. Edited April 23, 2012 by rsomazzi

[Dani]

I'll admit I've never spec'd assault from what I've read about, but the interesting thing is I broke my pre 1.2 dps Warzone record of 409k with a 429k within a day of 1.2's release. I don't hit 400k often, but 300's is common. I am pretty happy with Gunnery still and am usually near the top in dps each match. I don't have a reason to respec at the moment. I don't know what others are doing or how they're geared, but that's me.

 

The problem is who you're fighting. If the enemy team is incompetent you can sit there and grav round everyone, and you'll end up with a crazy score most of the times. If the enemy team is competent, 1 player is enough to shut you down permanently. This issue is not new, it's always been there. The only change is, pre 1.2 you could do good damage, now you just can't. And don't say stuff like I can still kill people and get 400k dps in a warzone... of course you can.

On average in a warzone I get less damage than I used to, simply because grav round has been nerfed and now demo round has been changed aswell (doesn't really hit for more than it used to pre 1.2 after the latest patch)

The nature of this spec makes it bad for pvp, and now that the damage is not even that good anymore, it's just a pure pve spec. Assault specialist is better for mobility and kiting, but the burst is not the same... not to mention that this spec is way better for vanguards because they get armor penetration talents in other trees while commandos don't get anything good

[MasterRodimus]

Since switching to Assault Spec, I became more mobile, most if not all my damage dealt are instant cast.

I can down mofos again and be more viable in PVP. Plus with Assault spec Im actually helping the team more and getting more warzone wins.

 

Give Assault Spec a try, dont brother getting Relex Shield, Degauss, and Night Vision, but everything else in the spec tree get.

[TUXs]

The problem is who you're fighting. If the enemy team is incompetent you can sit there and grav round everyone, and you'll end up with a crazy score most of the times. If the enemy team is competent, 1 player is enough to shut you down permanently.

THIS! I'll have some rounds where I destroy the other team...but fight well skilled players who know their enemy and it's over. I'll be lucky to land a shot (besides a Demo Round with no Grav Vortex's).

 

As more and more people learn how to neutralize us, PvP will become more and more frustrating for a GunMando.

[Comieb]

Since switching to Assault Spec, I became more mobile, most if not all my damage dealt are instant cast.

I can down mofos again and be more viable in PVP. Plus with Assault spec Im actually helping the team more and getting more warzone wins.

 

Give Assault Spec a try, dont brother getting Relex Shield, Degauss, and Night Vision, but everything else in the spec tree get.

 

Why i dont like Assault on Commando

 

1) Commandos only have a 16% chance to proc plasma cell, Vanguards have a talent in the assault tree (same location as target lock for commandos) that makes Ion pulse 100% chance to proc - which is a skill they use very often

 

2) No improved CD on conc charge (cant play Sith Baseball in Voidstar)

 

3) More squishier than Gunnery

 

4) Am forced to use the BFG as Assault, as Charged bolts require a Cannon. Grav Round i can run around with a rifle and look... well commando like.

 

If they made it so that i could use a rifle with charged bolts id be real happy to try out assault, there is no need for 'weapon silhouettes' any more as they added class icons above everyone heads.

 

And yes, i cant argue that Grav round gets somewhat old fast.

[MasterRodimus]

Gunnery great if you dont get focused on, but once you do your a sitting target.

WIth assualt you might lose some DPS, but you will help your team out more and get that win in PVP.

Honestly I would take WINS in WZ than getting higher DPS and lossing more wz. Thats my opinion.

 

Im happier mowing SITH down than being TOP dog in DPS and never been hit once.

Assualt is all instant cast and move, cast and move cast and move.

Gunnery is sit and cast, sit and cast, get interuppted then dead. LOL in PVP of course

[rsomazzi]

Well, for a game that is gear dependent, glaring class deficiencies are made worse and show themselves pretty handily in PvP. Marauders were tough to take down with all the damage mitigation and interrupts and BW decided to give them a handy buff while smacking other classes. That was a stupid move, imo. They're pigeonholing PvP and its obvious since 1.2. And I think the longer they keep it this way, the more Tanks will level and the more you will see in PvP, especially when rated hits. Nothing like getting tanks and healers to level like this before 1.2 comes out, just like prancing in a meat suit in front of a pack of rabid Pitbulls. Like I said, I think BW screwed the player base with class changes in this patch. There is no doubt in my mind. The happy ones are the tanks and healers, few else.

 

But for Gun Commandos, I don't think we need more damage, I think we need some utility to make us far more viable. We have almost zero damage mitigation and 1 CC break. That one break is nearly useless because of the chain stunning, chain interrupting, and chain ensnaring going on. This is the same thing that killed DAoC pvp and Mythic couldn't figure out class balance for the longest time while players screamed (that was when leveling to 50, btw, took 7 months, and that was fast). I am afraid the same thing will happen here.

[Keinhoran]

Assault can not overcome the burst Gunnery provides.

It is higly ammo consuming tree.

It is overrated as highly mobile for mandos because FA is channeled and CB is casting ability ( you have to cast those two is you want to activate HiB when it is in cooldown).

The dots can be cleansed.

The plasma proc is 16% ( while vangs is 100%).

There is greater synergy with vanguards other trees ( increase of elemental damage etc).

And it got a decrease in dps due to the 10% dps reduction of CB.

Assault at least for commando needs to be reworked. And since there is no option ( at least for the near future) to be able to change from to mando to vaguard and vice versa there is no need for this two classes to share assault tree.

[Hoojoo]

Well, for a game that is gear dependent, glaring class deficiencies are made worse and show themselves pretty handily in PvP. Marauders were tough to take down with all the damage mitigation and interrupts and BW decided to give them a handy buff while smacking other classes. That was a stupid move, imo. They're pigeonholing PvP and its obvious since 1.2. And I think the longer they keep it this way, the more Tanks will level and the more you will see in PvP, especially when rated hits. Nothing like getting tanks and healers to level like this before 1.2 comes out, just like prancing in a meat suit in front of a pack of rabid Pitbulls. Like I said, I think BW screwed the player base with class changes in this patch. There is no doubt in my mind. The happy ones are the tanks and healers, few else.

 

But for Gun Commandos, I don't think we need more damage, I think we need some utility to make us far more viable. We have almost zero damage mitigation and 1 CC break. That one break is nearly useless because of the chain stunning, chain interrupting, and chain ensnaring going on. This is the same thing that killed DAoC pvp and Mythic couldn't figure out class balance for the longest time while players screamed (that was when leveling to 50, btw, took 7 months, and that was fast). I am afraid the same thing will happen here.

 

 

A few things:

 

1) The happy ones are the tanks and healers??? Have you lost your gosh darned mind? Did you not read 1.2 patch notes and see what they did to my medic? Worst nerfs that I've seen handed out at once in an mmo EVER.

 

2) 7 months was a FAST time for getting 50 in DAoC? ..... obviously video games are not your strong suit sir. I had a druid, bard, merc, and theurg at 50 within the first year and I am slow. (one of the most gimp classes in mmo history at launch... in comparison with combat medic today, they were great...)

 

3) On the class balance issue I will agree mythic had it terrible for about 6 months where Stungard reigned supreme.... but im Pretty sure you said it "killed DaoC PvP" which is kinda funny considering its widely regarded as one of the (if not THE) best PvP mmo of all time, and still has players.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Hoojoo

[rsomazzi]

A few things:

 

1) The happy ones are the tanks and healers??? Have you lost your gosh darned mind? Did you not read 1.2 patch notes and see what they did to my medic? Worst nerfs that I've seen handed out at once in an mmo EVER.

 

You didn't pick up the context in which I said healers were happy, it's because they're lumped with the buffed tanks and having fun steam rolling with the class imbalance post 1.2. I never said healers were happy because of the nerfs. Even if I don't use this context, it still takes an awful lot of effort to bring down a decently geared healer in Warzones TODAY.

 

2) 7 months was a FAST time for getting 50 in DAoC? ..... obviously video games are not your strong suit sir. I had a druid, bard, merc, and theurg at 50 within the first year and I am slow. (one of the most gimp classes in mmo history at launch... in comparison with combat medic today, they were great...)

 

Again, you're making assumptions. Instead of using ignorant labels, ask a question or two before you make yourself look like a tool. Perhaps if I didn't have a full time job while going to college, I could have leveled up that Fire Wizard in less than 7 months, but back in the early days of DAoC, and I mean EARLY, before all xpacs, it took a long while for ANYONE to level a character. The grind was expected back then and it took many months to level. After ToA I don't know because I didn't stick around, but again, you're assuming it took the same time to level a toon no matter where you played on the DAoC timeline. Ask a question or two ("hey, were you leveling before or after the xpacs they released, because you know, they made leveling easier as time went on..."). Try that next time.

 

3) On the class balance issue I will agree mythic had it terrible for about 6 months where Stungard reigned supreme.... but im Pretty sure you said it "killed DaoC PvP" which is kinda funny considering its widely regarded as one of the (if not THE) best PvP mmo of all time, and still has players.

 

I agree it was one of the best MMOs, ahead of its time. I had an Infiltrator and I've never had as much fun since in a game. The main reason was open realm pvp actually worked. Everyone had keeps to defend or take. Everyone had their own backyard which spurred pride in each of the owning realms. It had crafting which was the sole source for the best gear in the game. So once you got the best gear you could, you switched to PvP and were able to focus on the gameplay itself, not your gear. WoW changed all that with their gear whoring system. Artifacts and having to level them started the point at which DAoC began to decline. But there in lies the challenge of any MMO owner; to keep enough players interested to keep the game profitable for years down the road. Few have done that well.

 

And yea, DAoC still has players. Look at the cash cow it is today. I see it in the news all the time, in fact

/sarcasm

Edited April 24, 2012 by rsomazzi

[Akomo]

Well, for a game that is gear dependent, glaring class deficiencies are made worse and show themselves pretty handily in PvP. Marauders were tough to take down with all the damage mitigation and interrupts and BW decided to give them a handy buff while smacking other classes. That was a stupid move, imo. They're pigeonholing PvP and its obvious since 1.2. And I think the longer they keep it this way, the more Tanks will level and the more you will see in PvP, especially when rated hits. Nothing like getting tanks and healers to level like this before 1.2 comes out, just like prancing in a meat suit in front of a pack of rabid Pitbulls. Like I said, I think BW screwed the player base with class changes in this patch. There is no doubt in my mind. The happy ones are the tanks and healers, few else.

 

But for Gun Commandos, I don't think we need more damage, I think we need some utility to make us far more viable. We have almost zero damage mitigation and 1 CC break. That one break is nearly useless because of the chain stunning, chain interrupting, and chain ensnaring going on. This is the same thing that killed DAoC pvp and Mythic couldn't figure out class balance for the longest time while players screamed (that was when leveling to 50, btw, took 7 months, and that was fast). I am afraid the same thing will happen here.

 

I would take a damage mitigation skill/ temp buff, to more damage.

[Moryu]

I am in agreement that we need one extra defensive ability, something tied in with reflective shield, maybe a 4 sec immunity from all cc (snares, movement impairing etc, I know in assault you get it on cast but in my experience it's a waste of talent points) when it's used. Also I would like to see something tied in with charged bolts, maybe that it would reduce alacrity of target for 10 secs by 50-100%, maybe only allowed to proc every 30 secs. I don't think BW will ever give us a ranged interupt so it would be a nice compromise (do BW compromise on class issues?).

I play assault for pvp, I get on better with it as it suits my play style and can hold my own against most melee, which are our nemesis' atm, but some melee players that are just better than me rip me a new one.

We don't need more dps, just a couple of extra tweeks that gives us a bit more survivability and some utility aswell.