Can PvP be designed where premades have no significant advantage?

[Dzhokhar]

Would a premade of a Snipers vs a PUG group of Snipers dominate? 8 vs 8 would yield 8 vs 0 in the first min of play?

(being that there is no one to guard or heal them, 1-2+ would die, no?)

 

The "premade group" will probably still win, but would it be 600-0 or 6-0?

First off, another reason people play MMOs (instead of CoD) is the trinity/class synergy. Eliminating that would just drive people away.

 

As for your specific example:

 

I think the match would go something like this:

1) 2-3 premade snipers flashbang all 8 PuG snipers.

2) Premade snipers focus fire ~2-3 Pug snipers.

3) Now it's 8v5.

4) Premade Snipers focus-fire 1-2 Pug snipers at a time (killing each in ~2 seconds).

5) Now it's 8v3 (and some of the 8 may have a little bit of damage)

6) The encounter has lasted about 15 seconds at this point.

7) The focus firing continues.

8) 8-0 in 20 seconds.

[Xsorus]

......You have to look at it this way......

 

Imagine if you were playing Basketball, and you join 4 other random people on the court to play against an actual team of people who play basketball together all the time..

 

You might better individually against their players, However as a team they are better coordinated.

 

Even providing things like voice chat to pugs, You'd still be at a disadvantage against these premades always...

[sharkfinsix]

i am partial to this idea...

 

Non-Ranked WZs go back to pre 1.2 queing (i.e. 4 man max premade) This gives you the chance to pvp with friends while still getting a more PUG feel to the battles.

 

Ranked WZ 8 man premades allowed....you want to play for the best rankings, you gotta expect it to be vs premades. However these rankings should try to place you in a bracket vs similar ranked players....

 

beating lower ranked players should yield lesser rewards, and beating higher ranked players should yield higher rewards.

[FROGJOHN]

I am going to enter this thread with a quick and decisive answer "No."

[Ghamsar]

I guess if Bioware put in a 1 vs 1 dueling ring and you get commendation for winning/losing. That's really what you seem to be asking for.

 

why do people find this so offensive that they create strawman arguments.

 

It must be clearer in my head than I am able to write down.

 

It might have worked for WoW because of the sheer numbers of people playing, but in less populated games, Pre's are/will be forcing people to quit.

 

I hope that the BM grind being shortened to 2-3 weeks will help balance, but if these ROFL matches continue, 1 month free ain't goin to cut it IMO. Casual guild went from 16 to 4 in 3 months....yeah a bunch of quitters....but they are still playing MMOs....just not this one.

[Ghamsar]

 

As for your specific example:

 

I think the match would go something like this:

1) 2-3 premade snipers flashbang all 8 PuG snipers.

2) Premade snipers focus fire ~2-3 Pug snipers.

3) Now it's 8v5.

4) Premade Snipers focus-fire 1-2 Pug snipers at a time (killing each in ~2 seconds).

5) Now it's 8v3 (and some of the 8 may have a little bit of damage)

6) The encounter has lasted about 15 seconds at this point.

7) The focus firing continues.

8) 8-0 in 20 seconds.

 

The PUGS would all tab nearest target and burn him, hes down, but they lose 2-3.....it's 5 vs 7.....no heals, no real mitigation for that one Sniper...etc,etc...ends at 5 or 4 vs 0

[Dzhokhar]

The PUGS would all tab nearest target and burn him, hes down, but they lose 2-3.....it's 5 vs 7.....no heals, no real mitigation for that one Sniper...etc,etc...ends at 5 or 4 vs 0

 

The pugs are all mezzed. They also wouldn't all tab the same target anyway (some would click, some would tab, they wouldn't all be closest to the same guy, etc).

 

8-0

[JayPres]

You can't limit coordination unless you limit the ability to group which is counter to the nature of MMO play.

 

People that get together an strategize will naturally have a competitive advantage; hence why there are objectives and goals to obtain/defend.

[DarthOvertone]

Which is the reason I ask if there's a way to design around it?

 

There absolutely is. These wondrous creations are called single-player console games.

 

You see SWTOR is an MMO. Normally in MMOs, group play and community participation is encouraged. While I see how you can be confused that SWTOR is possibly a single-player RPG due to the linear and rather poor designs of its worlds as well as its emphasis on individual story, it actually really wants to be an MMO.

[LoKiei]

I disagree with the idea that MMO's are about playing with other people cooperativly.

 

I play MMOs to kill other players and troll enemy factions. Not as a pseudo social outlet.

 

I also appreciate the lore, but I don't play to play with other people. I play to play against them.

 

It's nice to have a group for PvP and PvE at times but play with people too often and soon they start bugging you to do other stuff.

[TheronFett]

In game voice chat would go a long way on the communication front.

 

QFT ^

 

The single most effective tool in premades is that most are running TeamSpeak (or alternative). Communication is key. Yes, playing together and knowing each other helps, but bar none, being able to talk to teammates is what separates the good teams from the bad.

[Suutrar]

A Working Solution: Drama. Conflict between premade team members would eventually dissolve the team. So thereofre, we must design a warzone that sends subliminal messages to team members making them think that his team mates are thinking badly of him/her, and thus slowly drives a wedge between their relationships. Thus, making them lose faith in humanity and drives them to be forever alone.

 

I'd pay good money to see that.

[Ghamsar]

QFT ^

 

The single most effective tool in premades is that most are running TeamSpeak (or alternative). Communication is key. Yes, playing together and knowing each other helps, but bar none, being able to talk to teammates is what separates the good teams from the bad.

 

 

yes, and even if pugs wouldn't use/know how to use "in game voice chat" effectively in the beginning. They would soon learn....strategy, tips, who to look out for, etc,etc....."East Bomb being planted"," need help west", "4 incoming MID"," stealther stalking East"......people often can't type that fast.

 

The difference between premade and PUG could be whittled.