Sorcs struggling with 1.2 PVP, we can help if you want to improve

[stafaureus]

I guess I am well and truly horrible for costing myself a few ms by jumping and turning instead of just mouse looking. It is certainly horrible that I am this inefficient when most players don't know they can even cast behind them. Maybe I should contact the mods to delete all my posts so that I don't lead any other poor sorcs astray. With all your infinite wisdom and succinct, thoughtful contributions to the sorc forums, I nominate you as my successor. Do us all proud stafaureus.

 

No. Let me tell you what my issue with you is. This thread of yours is haughty. It smacks of you sitting on high helping us plebes be successful like you. Sure, some of your posts are helpful to some people who haven't thought things through. Kudos to you.

 

The issue is that people will actually turn to you for guidance thus fueling the ego to post more. And even when you get called out, you can't admit that it is a good point and that you will give it a shot instead of some lame excuse that complete camera control is merely a preference. Thats just not true- it is a big advantage over people who don't do it. If you want to be a swtor sorc leader, do it with more grace pls. I'm just as mad at the other guy because I'm sure he has a lot of neat little things but he's too selfish to share them on the forum because he probably has the same hoity toity attitude as you. However, since I've seen him play and he let us see some of his wow ratings I am much more inclined to listen closely with him. Thats a moot point anyway because he said he quit.

 

In the end, I know you will keep posting. This is the last time I reply to anything of yours though, I promise. I think a little hypocracy was exposed and that is as good as it gets on dese forums.

[_Minmaxer_]

Staf,

 

Your goal was by no means "to make a point with me". If you want to have a serious discussion, start with a serious post, your subsequent posts were much better. I knew about the smart camera option, I tried it, I didn't like it. Could it potentially improve my play if I worked really hard to become accustomed to it? Maybe. But after playing so long for a certain way its tough to change. I honestly don't see the difference anyway, if you are mouselooking a certain way you can start facing that way by tapping forward. Perhaps I don't understand how my approach is inferior? I use my camera both to look and turn, but when I stop looking my camera turns to the person I am casting Innervate/Force Lightning on. I still have complete control of what my camera does. In any event I still haven't perfected the use of the focus target, which I consider far more important for when rateds come out.

 

This is not my thread, its a thread I started. I was hoping other sorcs would contribute, because there is too much QQ and not enough people asking good questions and getting good answers. I don't know about you, but I don't learn anything from walls of QQ. Whether my posts, or responses to my posts grow my ego are highly irrelevant. If me, or another sorc is learning something, they have served their purpose.

 

On Topic:

I have a question that should stir a good debate as well: You see a sorc just starting to cast Innervate, do you use your interrupt on it? I do, as I feel it gives them very little follow up healing for the next 9 seconds. Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

Edited April 26, 2012 by _Minmaxer_

[Heimur]

I have a question that should stir a good debate as well: You see a sorc just starting to cast Innervate, do you use your interrupt on it? I do, as I feel it gives them very little follow up healing for the next 9 seconds. Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

 

I didn't use to, but I do now, if I catch it early enough.

[aedenone]

This thread has taken a turn and it looks like there is some doubt about _Minmaxer_ (Ohm) skills and/or attitude.

 

I play a DPS sorcerer on the same server as Ohm and I usually solo PUG PVP. I have played with and against him in countless warzones and I can tell you that playing against him has made me a better PVPer to the point where I could actually be considered "decent" by some others. That may not be saying much for my skills but our low population server has some very good PVPers and Ohm is up there with the top if not the absolute top. He is also not one to berate a player for making a mistake but instead would offer some advice in a mature manner and I have never seen him leave a failing warzone like so many other "elite" PVPers. So if he is willing to offer some advice from his experience to fellow sorcerers I am listening and will contribute how I can.

 

I also disagree with all the crying about how bad we are in 1.2. I have been running two different hybrid specs (21-2-18 and 0-20-21) and find that we are still very viable. I don't really find that any particular class completely destroys me but of course I have had some bad nights and some good nights. When 1.2 came out I just simply learned to adapt to what I had, I miss chain lightning very much but I still manage to get by and consider myself an asset to any PUG op I join. And before someone asks, no I don't just spam affliction and move on, I am looking for meaningful results and not medals or endgame scoreboard numbers.

 

On topic to Ohm's question about innervate, yes I interrupt it because I hate seeing my opponents health bars go up.

[Jacce]

Honestly, all the people in this thread saying that sorcerer dps specs are bad and underperforming, CLEARLY do not understand how to play the class. While I am one of the top sorcerers on my server and in the best pvp guild, even when I solo queue as 0/23/18 Lightning/Madness (with polarity shift, no points in forked), I outdamage sometimes outheal EVERYONE else on the team while helping to pull ball carriers, cap the ball, etc.

 

I can count on one hand the number of WZs since 1.2 where I haven't been top damage/dps.

 

This has already been said, but let go of our pitiful excuses for set bonuses. Craft yourself (or buy the pieces) a set of augmented BM or WH gear, augment it all, buff your power/alacrity/surge/crit (I choose alacrity/power) as much as you can, and blow people up.

 

Excuses are lame. Either accept that you now play the "underdog" class (which I laugh at) that has the highest skill cap in the game now, or stop whining and reroll a facerolling rail-shotting powertech.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Jacce

[Cempa]

Staf,

On Topic:

I have a question that should stir a good debate as well: You see a sorc just starting to cast Innervate, do you use your interrupt on it? I do, as I feel it gives them very little follow up healing for the next 9 seconds. Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

 

No I do not. Most of the heal takes place at the beginning, just save your Jolt for Dark Infusion.

 

Edit: If I have Stun, WW up all I care about is setting up my 1-2 punch as to burst him down so I may interrupt it...But as a general rule I will not.

 

Barrage---->make sure Affliction+Crushing is on target----->Recklessness+Relic+Stim----->Double FL under Barrage+Recklessness then Shock+Death Filed...Due to the bug Barrage double dip will be 100% crit and not consume my Recklessness then my Shock+Death Filed will use the Recklessness charges for some sick burst...If double shock proc thats too much pressure for any Sorcerer healer.

 

Edit 2: I get 100% from Recklessness 60% + 35% tootip Crit

Edited April 26, 2012 by Cempa

[Xzenorath]

Keep the useful feedback coming. I'm a good player, rerolled from my Trooper to Sorcerer for 1.2 on a new server, looking to absorb as much info as possible.

[Shilenne]

Removed my post since I noticed I was off topic, was giving PVP research instead of the flaming that's going on here o.o Sorry! Continue please Edited April 26, 2012 by Shilenne

[madtycoon]

I don't know what's with all the random hate. The discussion about facing a veng jugg was great. A lot of people don't even know what unstobbable is, let alone what it looks like. I agree you should have snap turned off, its just better and sorry its hard to debate the opposite, but no reason to start flaming about it.

 

On Topic:

I have a question that should stir a good debate as well: You see a sorc just starting to cast Innervate, do you use your interrupt on it? I do, as I feel it gives them very little follow up healing for the next 9 seconds. Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

 

I wouldn't interrupt innervate/trance unless you know someone is going to get the next cast. Most the healing comes from the upload and that just leaves the sorc/sage room to spam their other heals, whereas innervate/trance go on cooldown anyways. Ideally you don't stun till they cast their channel and lock on dark heal/infusion/revification. At least thats what makes it a lot harder for me.

 

the only real plus imo with locking out innervate is they can't get their comsumption proc (if it doesn't proc on the first one anyways). Locking out innervate also gives the healer a green light to cast anything, mainly whirlwind if its 1v1.

[Genttry]

Staf,

 

Your goal was by no means "to make a point with me". If you want to have a serious discussion, start with a serious post, your subsequent posts were much better. I knew about the smart camera option, I tried it, I didn't like it. Could it potentially improve my play if I worked really hard to become accustomed to it? Maybe. But after playing so long for a certain way its tough to change. I honestly don't see the difference anyway, if you are mouselooking a certain way you can start facing that way by tapping forward. Perhaps I don't understand how my approach is inferior? I use my camera both to look and turn, but when I stop looking my camera turns to the person I am casting Innervate/Force Lightning on. I still have complete control of what my camera does. In any event I still haven't perfected the use of the focus target, which I consider far more important for when rateds come out.

 

This is not my thread, its a thread I started. I was hoping other sorcs would contribute, because there is too much QQ and not enough people asking good questions and getting good answers. I don't know about you, but I don't learn anything from walls of QQ. Whether my posts, or responses to my posts grow my ego are highly irrelevant. If me, or another sorc is learning something, they have served their purpose.

 

On Topic:

I have a question that should stir a good debate as well: You see a sorc just starting to cast Innervate, do you use your interrupt on it? I do, as I feel it gives them very little follow up healing for the next 9 seconds. Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

 

The thing is, you don't have complete control of the camera. You either do or don't have complete control of your camera and when the game automatically forces you to snap back, you lose control. Granted, the majority of casts require a jump-turn, but if you can't see the other advantages I mentioned earlier in the thread, then the point is lost on you, which is absolutely fine. Play the way you want.

 

However, you did mention in an earlier post that it may simply give a small fraction of a second advantage. Isn't that what we are about here? Finding all of the literal and metaphorical little fractions of seconds and adding them all up for a considerable advantage? Yes, I think so. That really describes what the high-end pvp'ers do so much better than everyone else. (Props to the movie "Any Given Sunday" and Pacino's "football is a game of inches" speech as the impetus for my comparison above, haha. But I think it definitely fits here.)

 

To answer your question, in my opinion, using the interrupt would depend on what else is happening around me. Can you quickly see who the sorc is targeting and their health level? Do you have assists on that target or on the enemy sorc casting the innervate? Will his or her resolve bar allow for another interrupt if you have one on cooldown? If you are trying to drive home the point that Sorcs have few meaningful healing options for 9 seconds post innervate, well, I'm not sure I agree with that. Maybe I don't understand the question. In any case, I do agree with you on one item- focus targeting is important, although not drastically more important than camera control. For me they are simply two pieces of the puzzle.

 

Speaking of targeting, I save some really nice (i.e. easy to reach) binds for targeting. I use a steelseries merc stealth keyboard and the wicked cool razer naga mouse that has 12 binds on the left thumb-side. These 2 devices offer so many bind options that are easy to reach. I started using them for wow arenas a few years ago and they transition really well to SWTOR. For those of you who use them or know what they look like, I can tell you that I use ctrl 12 (where the 12 is on the side of the mouse) for target nearest friend and ctrl 11 for target next friend. Likewise, I use ctrl 9 for target nearest enemy and ctrl 8 for target next enemy. I really hate click targeting bad guys, especially the perpetually jumpy ones, so these binds really help me out quite a bit. Some people think posts about binds are boring, but I love comparing them with people who use the same devices as me.

 

Question: Do you guys have any interesting keybind combos that could make others go "herp derp I shoulda thought of that!?"

 

FYI, here are links to the keyboard and mouse if you are interested. I absolutely love both devices!!

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.220156700/categoryId.35208800

http://steelseries.com/products/keyboards/steelseries-merc-stealth

 

And Staf, please shush. I offered a tip re: how efficient smart camera removal is; he said he tried it and didn't like it. Whether he plays with smart camera on or off shouldn't matter to you in the slightest. It is simply another advantage that, when added together with all of the other little things could make a meaningful advantage. Further, you said you ran with me before but I highly doubt it after reading your posts. I and my guildies play with people we have fun with and who maintain a certain level of competency. You don't seem to be very much fun.

 

edit: damnation, I said I would stop posting four posts ago!

Edited April 26, 2012 by Genttry

[_Minmaxer_]

Long post

Yup, it is a game of inches so to speak, and I have definitely misplaced a death field before. WRT camera snapping, I've never felt my approach to it has hindered my gameplay, I don't even recall how cameras behaved in other games. My point was that my camera control is currently highly functional (but apparently not optimal), where as I'm hardly using the focus target at all, which is something that I can improve quickly, so less effort more gain.

 

The question about Innervate was deliberately vague. There is no right answer, as so much depends on the situation, and my goal was to just generate discussion. If my goal is to lockdown a healer (cause no one else is), I will Jolt their Innervate, stun their DI/Reviv. If they pop the stun I Whirlwind, then for 8sec, giving Jolt time to come off CD. If they eat the stun I pressure them with DPS, from there it totally depends what they do. I really dislike allowing a full duration Innervate as mine with the WZ buff can heal for as much as 7-7.5k.

 

My Naga broke and I miss it, I may look into getting another one.

 

In regards to keybinds, my main rule of thumb is that skills that are usable on the move should have the simplest and most direct keybinds, so that you can both move and use them at the same time. I use ESDF for movement and have these:

Q - Force Speed

W - Purge

1 - Static Barrier

2 - Shock

3 - Force Slow

4 - Force Lightning

5 - Overload

6 - Extricate

R - Affliction

T - Jolt

Y - Electrocute

A - Resurgence

Z - Whirlwind

G - Deathfield

I use modifiers for anything that is stand still to cast. And no I don't keyboard turn, thanks for asking.

Edited April 27, 2012 by _Minmaxer_

[shadowflit]

On Topic:

I have a question that should stir a good debate as well: You see a sorc just starting to cast Innervate, do you use your interrupt on it? I do, as I feel it gives them very little follow up healing for the next 9 seconds. Curious to hear the thoughts of others.

Before 1.2, I wouldn't bother interrupting Innervate (when playing on my Sentinel). Since Innervate gets some healing off regardless of interrupts and Infusion held an equal place in the rotation, I saved interrupts for Infusion unless I was close to a kill.

 

After 1.2, I no longer think that advice is sound. Interrupt ASAP, all the time. I'm playing mostly on my healer Sage, and aside from my instants, the vast majority of my single target healing comes from Innervate. I'll occasionally throw out an Infusion or two, but if people skip interrupting Innervate in favor of Infusion, I get off a ton of uninterrupted healing.

 

As an aside, I run with (at least) the 2pc PvE bonus, so Innervate is on a 7.5s cooldown.

Edited April 27, 2012 by shadowflit

[Guioki]

I try to stun or knock back the innervate since the lockout is pointless.

[Cempa]

As for Vengeance Juggernauts I don't know why a Sorcerer would have any issue with them, I wait out the 4sec then CC and leave. I know they will Force Choke and try to AE CC, just stun them and Force Speed, they break it you have a free full 8sec CC!

 

REMEMBERER: Force Speed covers 30m in 2sec!

Edited April 27, 2012 by Cempa

[darthtrunkmonkey]

I'm performig well on my madness sorc, don't care about all of the QQ from the badies

 

[--FtW--]

 

For the Win fighter says you win!

[Genttry]

Yup, it is a game of inches so to speak, and I have definitely misplaced a death field before. WRT camera snapping, I've never felt my approach to it has hindered my gameplay, I don't even recall how cameras behaved in other games. My point was that my camera control is currently highly functional (but apparently not optimal), where as I'm hardly using the focus target at all, which is something that I can improve quickly, so less effort more gain.

 

The question about Innervate was deliberately vague. There is no right answer, as so much depends on the situation, and my goal was to just generate discussion. If my goal is to lockdown a healer (cause no one else is), I will Jolt their Innervate, stun their DI/Reviv. If they pop the stun I Whirlwind, then for 8sec, giving Jolt time to come off CD. If they eat the stun I pressure them with DPS, from there it totally depends what they do. I really dislike allowing a full duration Innervate as mine with the WZ buff can heal for as much as 7-7.5k.

 

My Naga broke and I miss it, I may look into getting another one.

 

In regards to keybinds, my main rule of thumb is that skills that are usable on the move should have the simplest and most direct keybinds, so that you can both move and use them at the same time. I use ESDF for movement and have these:

Q - Force Speed

W - Purge

1 - Static Barrier

2 - Shock

3 - Force Slow

R - Affliction

T - Jolt

Y - Electrocute

A - Resurgence

Z - Whirlwind

G - Deathfield

I use modifiers for anything that is stand still to cast. And no I don't keyboard turn, thanks for asking.

 

Cool. You moved over to esdf, nice, makes sense to get a few more easy binds. The only stretchy kinda reach is y (electrocute), but I guess people who don't type with two fingers like me don't have an issue with it haha. I'd post mine, but unless you have a steelseries keyboard and naga mouse they wouldn't make sense. Ok, enough free PR for them. Thanks for posting some of your binds buddy!

 

I think I have everything bound; there are a lot of them!. I use the mouse scroll forward for dark heal; sometimes people don't think of using mouse scroll wheel as a bind outside of camera zoom. I also use ctrl+mouse scroll wheel for a bind.

 

Question: Would anyone be interested in seeing an autohotkey script for multiple keystrokes? It takes some time to set up, but here's what it does---> for times when I need burst healing, I can use <recklessness> plus <relic> plus <expertise pot> all from one key, instead of hitting three separate binds. It works because only <recklessness> is on the global cooldown. Using the macro requires downloading of the autohotkey program. End result: when I need burst healing, I can simply press number "6" quickly because that is my bind for it. It sets up your burst healing or damage much faster than using 3 separate binds. If there is interest, I'll post instructions. (shout out to my guildie Matumbo / Nematode for showing me this)

Edited April 27, 2012 by Genttry

[stafaureus]

And Staf, please shush. I offered a tip re: how efficient smart camera removal is; he said he tried it and didn't like it. Whether he plays with smart camera on or off shouldn't matter to you in the slightest. It is simply another advantage that, when added together with all of the other little things could make a meaningful advantage. Further, you said you ran with me before but I highly doubt it after reading your posts. I and my guildies play with people we have fun with and who maintain a certain level of competency. You don't seem to be very much fun.

 

Lol, ooh the high and mighty have spoken. I'll tell you what was fun, watching you get trainwrecked over and over by the two marauders and that sorc the other day in novare coast. Learn to live longer than 30 seconds when focused lmao.

 

Also, no one cares about your mouse or keyboard or your keybinds or your macros. Seriously, if you are so good, why did you die 6 times in that match? Pretty funny that you can't kite those three pubs for more than 30 seconds. It was funny watching you try to stay alive lmao. And yes, my alt was on the pub side that match. I'll told everyone to focus fire you. Where were all of your guildies? Oh my bad, they quit just like you said you were gonna do. lrn to live more than 30 undr ff, that is all.

[Sock_Bramson]

Le sigh, this chucklehead again? While 6 deaths is more than 0-5 (yeah, I got crazy math skills), that's really not that many deaths, especially if your team was trying to FF him. There are games where I won't die at all because we're too busy steamrolling, but in close games the death counts on both sides start racking up.

 

If you were paying attention, the recent discussion here was actually concerned with hotkeys and such. It's interesting to see different peoples' preferences for their key binds. For example, I've been a big fan of using shift+1-5 for my heals and shield, although I use 1 for innervate since I use it so much. Do you care? No, you seem to be more interested in acting like a douche-nozzle. However, those of us staying on topic are enjoying the discussion.

 

Please, if you want to be a dick, at least try to be an intelligent dick. As it stands, you're only making it easier for us to laugh at you.

 

On second thought, keep it up, it's pretty damn fun to collectively roll our eyes at your cute little shenanigans.

 

-Hedley Melange, Dreshdae Cantina-

 

Edit: Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure Jibblets (aka Gen) hasn't been on in a long while. I suppose I could have just not seen him, but you could just be lying to try to flame him. You're rhetorical skills are pretty piss-poor as it is; don't compound the problem by making ish up.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Sock_Bramson

[madtycoon]

Not sure if you're trolling, but no sorc is going to live against 2 marauders + another sorc for more than 30 seconds, especially on nova coast. The only possible way would be if he knocked off the 2 marauders off the edge. Its hard enough to survive with 1 on you for 30 seconds. There's not much line of sight on that map to work with aside from the bunkers which means something else is going to start attacking you if you kite there too long.

 

I tried switching to WER for movement a few seasons ago, but it didn't stick. I couldn't get used to hitting ctrl and shift felt weird. I like having my pinkie dedicated to ctrl, shift, caps lock (alt remapped) and tab.

[Zhaze]

There really is no good reason to play a Sorc after 1.2 unless you really enjoy a challenge. If we had even class distribution in the warzones, I think it would still be pretty fun. The majority of the warzones I join now have mostly marauders, assassins, and powertechs, all of which destroy sorc. The increase burst is hurting them waaay more than the nerf to Chain Lightning Wrath spam. There are times when I have 4 marauders on me. *** can you do with that? It's pretty much insta gib.

 

I'm not saying we should survive 4 of anything (and no class should), but the fact they go after sorc first because of the huge crit numbers they can get is stupid and not very fun. There are a couple of shadows that follow me around and I can control them a bit but eventually they will end up killing me unless allies help. This is the ONLY class that seems to be completely dependent on others in PVP.

[xenofire]

I don't understand the QQ....

I queue for PVP in half PVE gear, half PVP, about 400 expertise and 1900 willpower. I frequently do 400k damage, even more on voidstar. My sorc healer friend I queue with almost always has 600k healing.

 

If I had full PVP gear--which I've never felt the need or desire to farm-- I feel I'd be an unstoppable force, yet so many people are still QQ'ing.

[Genttry]

Lol, ooh the high and mighty have spoken. I'll tell you what was fun, watching you get trainwrecked over and over by the two marauders and that sorc the other day in novare coast. Learn to live longer than 30 seconds when focused lmao.

 

Also, no one cares about your mouse or keyboard or your keybinds or your macros. Seriously, if you are so good, why did you die 6 times in that match? Pretty funny that you can't kite those three pubs for more than 30 seconds. It was funny watching you try to stay alive lmao. And yes, my alt was on the pub side that match. I'll told everyone to focus fire you. Where were all of your guildies? Oh my bad, they quit just like you said you were gonna do. lrn to live more than 30 undr ff, that is all.

 

Yeah that was me, I logged in for the first time in a while and played a few matches. By the way, you realize that you just complimented me, right? I still don't know who you are. I'm gonna start callin you princess though, boy, cuz u gots some perty lips.

[Ian_Planeswalker]

imho I really do believe that we are on the bottom tier

 

in our server when the opposing team sees a sorc/sage they all gank on him then in about 3-4 seconds the sorc is dead, try escaping to 2 maras jumping at you with a bh tracer missile and a sniper aiming at you, ok that is like 4v1 so definitely you'll die,

 

try doing 1v1 with all classes and tell me how they pawned you really bad, I'm a good with my sorc but if someone focuses on me the whole warzone game i really cant do anything

[Sock_Bramson]

Well, at least staf isn't a liar; he's just a bit soft in the head. I like how he tried to insult you by mentioning many of your guildmates quit. How the hell is that an insult?! (especially considering the fact that you mentioned it first) "Haha, someone else you use to play with decided that they wanted to take a break from paying for swtor; you suck!" It's even worse than mistaking correlation with causation; it just doesn't make any sense. I guess I shouldn't try to apply reason to his posts, just gonna make my head hurt.

 

Speaking of people quitting: Damnit Jibs/Gent, start playing more! There's still plenty of people getting on to beat on the pubs/ each other.

 

-Hedley Melange, Dreshdae Cantina-

[Dagyo]

Well, this has probably already been stated, but sorcs are very, very tactical now. I don't want to call all of it luck, but some portion of your success banks on your luck. You have to ensure that you plan where you're going to be, where you're casting from, and where you're going to run when someone says, "hey, that's a sorc melting my face a little."

 

Hug corners/pillars, abuse force slow, and avoid force lightning until you have everyone dotted up. Don't force lightning if you can't break LoS from the other team. Even still, you have to hope that they don't pay attention to you, or at least, they don't pay much attention to you. It's easy to rip a sorc/sage apart -- if they don't have a pocket healer and/or guard.

 

This doesn't make the class horribly broken, but you can't go toe to toe with melee classes and expect to win. I still do alright most of the time. Just remember that you need to ensure that you call as little attention to yourself as possible, and you make sure that you can get away quickly. You also need to stay mobile. Standing in one spot will get you killed.