Definitely one BIG problem with the event

[Nexdine]

Men should act like men...

 

The reason humanity is currently circling the drain out here in the real world is because we have far too many "men who are acting like men".

 

Irrational aggression isn't "acting like a man", that's succumbing to the primitive ape within. Or is a man a real man when he goes home and beats up his wife because he can't beat up his co-workers to take out his stress on them too? I'm sure the griefers who went after the OP probably are "real men".

 

Some people prefer to play this game as a cooperative multiplayer game. The game in general supports that, and that is what many enjoy - to work together with friends to overcome npc resistance. I fall into that category, and have so far leveled two characters to 50 and several to 20-25 without once going into PvP - and yesterday I found myself PvP flagged by pure mistake (I was being nice so I applied my class buff to a friend, who had been PvP flagged some other way, most likely from this tactic since it was in connection with doing the Rakghoul dailies.

[TheBBP]

I ask him to please back away, I don't want him to flag me or something when he explodes. I move away, he follows. I don't have enough time to use a vaccine before he explodes,

 

... You had enough time to use a vaccine.

[Pocketjangle]

Agree completely OP, I hate PVP and rolled on a PVE server to avoid it. Your case has underlined the reason I won't be taking part in this event or any event that includes the chance of PVP.

 

I do hope sincerely that there will be an option to permanently keep PVP toggled off. I believe Rift has this option.

[Frostvein]

Not that the op doesn't have a point but I never understood why people would join a game with the word "war" in it if they never intend to actually fight anyone.

[DieAlteHexe]

Not that the op doesn't have a point but I never understood why people would join a game with the word "war" in it if they never intend to actually fight anyone.

 

There are two ways to play this game on offer:

 

1. PvE

 

2. PvP

 

BOTH are intentionally designed by the developers to be viable. The "war" bit in option number one is vs. mobs. Not everyone is interested in fighting other players. PvE is a very popular option in MMOs, as is PvP. Neither is better than the other except as a personal preference.

[benificus]

Not that the op doesn't have a point but I never understood why people would join a game with the word "war" in it if they never intend to actually fight anyone.

 

Really?

 

Let me explain. There's these movies--they're pretty obscure, but as I understand it, a lot of people like them, and might want to play a game about them.

 

Seriously, Star Wars is just a title. It could just as easily be called Jedi Force Party. I'm pretty sure you fully understand what these people want out of the game--to play a Star Wars game. There are plenty of things to fight that aren't other players. Don't play dumb.

 

Why do arguments about PvP always end up invoking the whole chest thumping "afraid to fight me" frat boy thing? (And to be clear, I know exactly why, I'm just being rhetorical.)

[Rhyltran]

I miss the good old days where griefing was just part of the fact an MMO is a player driven environment, completely dynamic and constantly random. you either ragequit or you learn to adapt and have fun.

 

these online single player games really took the fun out of MMO's, i think EvE is the only true MMO out there, why can't developers just put on the game packaging minimum requirements: "An IQ above 60" and start ignoring the QQers who most of the time allow themselves to be griefed?

 

You know most games that predate EvE the developers usually didn't put up with griefers right? Take Everquest. Ogres blocking the door ways into banks and other forms of griefing. Know how I dealt with it? Petitioning the GM's. Got quite a few griefers banned this way. So.. your "real" mmo's didn't put up with griefing well either. EvE is a different animal. Griefing is almost encouraged. Tolerating griefing has nothing to do with IQ. That's like claiming the man who had someone poke him in the forehead 600 times without throwing a punch has more brains than the guy who lost it after thirty.

 

The original poster is dealing with the problem in another way by reporting it as a problem on the forums. This let's the developers know that he isn't satisfied by what happened. A mature way of handling the situation.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Rhyltran

[NDFraser]

I understand people wanting a clear separation from PvE and PvP but being a PvP heavy player I can say that PvE people have way more perks and catering than PvP people do. PvP doesn't produce pets, rare items or the variety of mounts that PvP does as an example.The two non solo-able Orobirds are Op/Flashpoint drops, the 3rd Rakling is a PvE drop, one of the tauntauns is a world boss drop and the other you need an item where the schematic drops from a world boss. The magenta crystal is the same. Not to mention the beautiful desler mounts only drop in Ops and the 4 new speeders are all PvE related. Our only attractive mount design was available in a different color for credits between patches 1.1.5-1.2. Icing on the cake is that the Champion (now called recruit gear) can be purchased now with credits where columni gear is still only obtainable through PvE and our 3rd tier gear (battlemaster) doesn't even require valor anymore.

 

Point is I see your argument and I think it's unfair to expect PvP servers to have to do PvE specific things to get most of the coveted items but PvE people cry foul when any PvP aspect of the game comes into play. PvE servers have a chance of avoiding PvP to get things done, PvP servers are forced to PvE to get so many things.

[Phydra]

I agree with the OP and those who have said it previously - PvP should be consensual, always. Additionally, in my opinion, folk who can't "have fun" unless it's without your consent... well... I can't think of a single situation under which that ought to be acceptable... can you?

[ACLucius]

I miss the good old days where griefing was just part of the fact an MMO is a player driven environment, completely dynamic and constantly random. you either ragequit or you learn to adapt and have fun.

 

these online single player games really took the fun out of MMO's, i think EvE is the only true MMO out there, why can't developers just put on the game packaging minimum requirements: "An IQ above 60" and start ignoring the QQers who most of the time allow themselves to be griefed?

 

You do know that what defines an MMO is not griefing, it is the game being a massively multiplayer online game, right? You know that this game, as well as many others, fit that description right?

 

If the server is PvE, that means unless you want to participate in PvP, you should not be forced to under any circumstance. There are bugs unfortunately where this is possible. I think that instead of insisting that a game requires a minimum IQ, you should probably first check and make sure your own matches it.

[Zhiroc]

I miss the good old days where griefing was just part of the fact an MMO is a player driven environment, completely dynamic and constantly random. you either ragequit or you learn to adapt and have fun.

 

these online single player games really took the fun out of MMO's, i think EvE is the only true MMO out there, why can't developers just put on the game packaging minimum requirements: "An IQ above 60" and start ignoring the QQers who most of the time allow themselves to be griefed?

 

Because, frankly, the market for such is extremely limited. Let's take EvE, for example. I'd agree that it is the "purest" PvP MMO out there atm. And after many years, and much polish, it has managed to get up to about 400k subs. Howver, I played EvE way back when, and unless it's changed, has more multiboxers than any other game I've ever seen. Some people have even 3 or more subs to it. So that 400K is probably more like 200k people, or maybe even less.

 

The cost of MMO game development these days is skyrocketing, and it'll be hard to draw the investors you need if you limit yourself to that small market segment.

 

BW with SWTOR was trying to aim for not only the middle of the MMO market, but also the middle of the single-player RPG market, the one that they helped build with KotOR and ME, and whose players often do not also play MMOs. This is why all the "hard-core" MMO players state (complain?) about how solo-friendly SWTOR is, and probably also can't understand why the voicing and the story warranted spending so much money.

 

Of course, only time will tell as to how successful they will ultimately be.

[Freyar]

TEXT

 

The only reason costs of development is going up is because publishers let it. Sure it costs MORE to make an MMO than a standard title, but development budgets as a whole have skyrocketed in the last six to ten years simply because it could be done. Now they're used to developing based on these budgets, and are (in some cases like Activision) shoveling out the same crap each year.

[Phydra]

I miss the good old days where griefing was just part of the fact an MMO is a player driven environment, completely dynamic and constantly random. you either ragequit or you learn to adapt and have fun.

 

these online single player games really took the fun out of MMO's, i think EvE is the only true MMO out there, why can't developers just put on the game packaging minimum requirements: "An IQ above 60" and start ignoring the QQers who most of the time allow themselves to be griefed?

 

Actually, the "good old days" weren't like that at all.

 

In fact, once upon a time (I was there, so I know) there was actually a code of honor around PvP and it was founded on the notion that non-consensual PvP was just being a *******.

 

To be blunt, once upon a time, if your buddies found out you were a "PKer" (i.e., someone who deliberately seeks out and kills people who aren't PvPers) they'd whack your butt themselves and corpse camp you until you got the message.

 

What message, you ask? Well, it was kind of simple, really, and logical if you think more than three seconds ahead of your own instant gratification:

 

1. Ganking on folk who have no interest in PvP gives PvP overall a black eye, which,

2. Makes it much less likely that those who are curious about PvP will ever do more than be curious about it, which,

3. Lowers the number of new PvPers you get to enjoy (i.e., "fresh meat"), and also,

4. Ensures that those who do not like PvP (i.e., the majority, check the numbers, friend) continue to insist on mechanics that prevent as much of this behavior as possible.

 

In short, friend, your perspective is precisely the reason that World PvP has continued to become passe' AND why there are now different servers for it, AS WELL AS why there continues to be backlash and increasing strictures to segregate PvP from PvE unless you specifically opt into it.

 

Succinctly... players who think as you seem to are the reason PvP "can't have nice things".

 

Mind you, this comes to you from someone who began gaming life as a PvPer with UO and EQ and, by the time I got to AC, could see enough of where it was going to determine it was already largely ruined. Today, I'll duel, but you really won't see me PvPing anymore because, frankly, twitch ain't skill, being able to jump real fast in a circle ain't skill, and theorycrafting ain't skill. Skill is largely no longer an element excepting to the extent that correct use of timing, situational awareness, and knowledge of your spells and their effective use are concerned (and frankly, friend, that ain't skill either, it's just basic technique).

[ThorgrimLutgen]

depends on how you view it, OP could of ran away, he could of done something. instead he stood there and did nothing and IMO he quite rightly died, should of just learnt from the experience, respawned and carried on playing

 

instead he decided to make a post highlighting his poor gameplay hoping the developers will gut out more of what makes a multiplayer game multiplayer. PVP.

 

I wish one day a mod/dev would have the stones to close a thread on the basis OP messed up and died.

 

No it doesn't. He plays on a PVE server, if it was a PVP server I would agree. His choice of server dictates his desired playstyle and ruleset.

[DieAlteHexe]

Phydra...you are awesome (and correct).

 

Back in UO I was a crafter and was not at all into PvP. At first Mr. BigPapaPimp and ImRedYourDead had a field day with me. But then, some of the real PvPers took note and started protecting my gathering butt. They let it be known that I was offlimits to the gankers and that mucking with me whilst about my business of gathering/mining/whatever would have repercussions.

 

And, despite being not at all into PvP (still am not) there was a sense of actual communitiy there. I crafted, sold things, supplied other players and in return I was protected by what I think of as REAL PvPers.

 

Have experienced nothing like it since and wish that there could be another UO because there was a sense of family/community etc. that hasn't been met in any other MMO since that I've seen.

[Anahydris]

Actually, the "good old days" weren't like that at all.

 

In fact, once upon a time (I was there, so I know) there was actually a code of honor around PvP and it was founded on the notion that non-consensual PvP was just being a *******.

 

To be blunt, once upon a time, if your buddies found out you were a "PKer" (i.e., someone who deliberately seeks out and kills people who aren't PvPers) they'd whack your butt themselves and corpse camp you until you got the message.

 

What message, you ask? Well, it was kind of simple, really, and logical if you think more than three seconds ahead of your own instant gratification:

 

1. Ganking on folk who have no interest in PvP gives PvP overall a black eye, which,

2. Makes it much less likely that those who are curious about PvP will ever do more than be curious about it, which,

3. Lowers the number of new PvPers you get to enjoy (i.e., "fresh meat"), and also,

4. Ensures that those who do not like PvP (i.e., the majority, check the numbers, friend) continue to insist on mechanics that prevent as much of this behavior as possible.

 

In short, friend, your perspective is precisely the reason that World PvP has continued to become passe' AND why there are now different servers for it, AS WELL AS why there continues to be backlash and increasing strictures to segregate PvP from PvE unless you specifically opt into it.

 

Succinctly... players who think as you seem to are the reason PvP "can't have nice things".

 

Mind you, this comes to you from someone who began gaming life as a PvPer with UO and EQ and, by the time I got to AC, could see enough of where it was going to determine it was already largely ruined. Today, I'll duel, but you really won't see me PvPing anymore because, frankly, twitch ain't skill, being able to jump real fast in a circle ain't skill, and theorycrafting ain't skill. Skill is largely no longer an element excepting to the extent that correct use of timing, situational awareness, and knowledge of your spells and their effective use are concerned (and frankly, friend, that ain't skill either, it's just basic technique).

 

 

PvP requires every bit as much skill as PvE. And vice-versa. They are just two totally different animals. And if you said "friend" one more time, I might think you were sounding a bit condescending.

[ACLucius]

Actually, the "good old days" weren't like that at all.

 

In fact, once upon a time (I was there, so I know) there was actually a code of honor around PvP and it was founded on the notion that non-consensual PvP was just being a *******.

 

To be blunt, once upon a time, if your buddies found out you were a "PKer" (i.e., someone who deliberately seeks out and kills people who aren't PvPers) they'd whack your butt themselves and corpse camp you until you got the message.

 

What message, you ask? Well, it was kind of simple, really, and logical if you think more than three seconds ahead of your own instant gratification:

 

1. Ganking on folk who have no interest in PvP gives PvP overall a black eye, which,

2. Makes it much less likely that those who are curious about PvP will ever do more than be curious about it, which,

3. Lowers the number of new PvPers you get to enjoy (i.e., "fresh meat"), and also,

4. Ensures that those who do not like PvP (i.e., the majority, check the numbers, friend) continue to insist on mechanics that prevent as much of this behavior as possible.

 

In short, friend, your perspective is precisely the reason that World PvP has continued to become passe' AND why there are now different servers for it, AS WELL AS why there continues to be backlash and increasing strictures to segregate PvP from PvE unless you specifically opt into it.

 

Succinctly... players who think as you seem to are the reason PvP "can't have nice things".

 

Mind you, this comes to you from someone who began gaming life as a PvPer with UO and EQ and, by the time I got to AC, could see enough of where it was going to determine it was already largely ruined. Today, I'll duel, but you really won't see me PvPing anymore because, frankly, twitch ain't skill, being able to jump real fast in a circle ain't skill, and theorycrafting ain't skill. Skill is largely no longer an element excepting to the extent that correct use of timing, situational awareness, and knowledge of your spells and their effective use are concerned (and frankly, friend, that ain't skill either, it's just basic technique).

 

Hmm... if you were a person of poor character, I would say that GunZ is the game for you based on what you want out of PvP. Unfortunately, the only way you can really play that game is to be willing to adjust to the extremely steep learning curve and have skin thicker than the Earth's crust.

 

I must agree with you though. Skill is no longer a real part of PvP in most MMO's. It is mostly based on numbers and sheer dumb luck. At least I still have one game I can play for a true skill oriented PvP experience.

[TziganeNZ]

No it doesn't. He plays on a PVE server, if it was a PVP server I would agree. His choice of server dictates his desired playstyle and ruleset.

Absolutely this. I am of the firm belief that there should be no open-world PvP on PvE servers whatsoever, with warzones for PvP for those who want a change. Full open-world PvP on PvP servers? Totally! (well, maybe excepting the starter planets - that would be a little unfair). But those who choose PvE as a playstyle on a PvE server should not in any way be put in a position where they are forced to do otherwise. And their choice should be respected.

 

Yes, it's a MMO - that doesn't mean it should be a PvP gankfest. Go to Eve Online or Aion for that. MMO just means lots of people playing at the same time in the same virtual world.

[Dalwhat]

What strikes me about the OP is not that this scenario unfolded but rather that he felt it neccessary to come onto the forums to complain. This is the way the game is designed. If you want zero interraction with the MM in an MMO(RPG) I suggest it is your expectations which are wrong. You get the same in EVE from players who read the design notes and still get upset when someone comes and blows them up while they're mining. Maybe Skyrim would be a better game for the OP to play?

[JediElf]

Getting ganked, isn't really what I'd call 'player interaction'.

 

We really need a PVP Always Off option. One that ensures that, when it is ticked in the options menu, the player is never, ever, flagged for PVP.

 

Simple as that, and good for everyone. Especially those of us on PVE and PVERP servers.

Edited April 20, 2012 by JediElf

[TziganeNZ]

We really need a PVP Always Off option. One that ensures that, when it is ticked in the options menu, the player is never, ever, flagged for PVP.

 

Simple as that, and good for everyone.

Looking for the "Like" button.....

[Freyar]

Getting ganked, isn't really what I'd call 'player interaction'.

 

We really need a PVP Always Off option. One that ensures that, when it is ticked in the options menu, the player is never, ever, flagged for PVP.

 

Simple as that, and good for everyone. Especially those of us on PVE and PVERP servers.

 

Then you shouldn't be able to enter PvP combat zones, or contested areas. You shouldn't be able to heal anyone that is flagged. You shouldn't be able to GROUP with anyone that is flagged, and you shouldn't be allowed in Warzones.

[DieAlteHexe]

What strikes me about the OP is not that this scenario unfolded but rather that he felt it neccessary to come onto the forums to complain. This is the way the game is designed. If you want zero interraction with the MM in an MMO(RPG) I suggest it is your expectations which are wrong. You get the same in EVE from players who read the design notes and still get upset when someone comes and blows them up while they're mining. Maybe Skyrim would be a better game for the OP to play?

 

How very silly to try to define "interaction" as PvP.

 

As for "complaining on the forums" why not? Trying to reach the devs. via the forums is actually one of the intents of the forums.

 

And finally your assertion that this is akin to EVE players trying to get the basic intent of the game changed is also wrong. PvE servers are meant to be PvE and PvP on them should be ONLY by consent. This is not in any way attempting to change the game. It is a desire to have the game be as presented. PvP by consent only on PvE servers.

[DieAlteHexe]

Then you shouldn't be able to enter PvP combat zones, or contested areas. You shouldn't be able to heal anyone that is flagged. You shouldn't be able to GROUP with anyone that is flagged, and you shouldn't be allowed in Warzones.

 

If you select the "always off" option, exactly right.

 

If you want to indulge in PvP, you simply uncheck the option or use a kybd. command.

 

Sounds good to me.

[Barrakudah]

Go hide at a friendly quest hub/speeder point till they get bored and move along.