Definitely one BIG problem with the event

[DieAlteHexe]

I reckon that many PvPers are like you describe but all my experience with the PvP crowd have been pretty much negative(as in, people I have pvped against have been as childish and rude as you can get), as demonstrated by this thread where some people cannot even comprehend the idea that people choose a PvE server because they don't like PvP.

 

I hear ya. Boy, do I hear ya. This is a battle I've been fighting since UO days.

 

Someone asked what's the difference between an NPC killing you or another player. The NPC won't dance on your corps, questions your manhood, or sexuality and do not tell you to learn2play or play another game.

 

Yup. I don't PvP much any more, just suck at it and can't be bothered to try to become better but the "pseudo-masculinity" is a right, royal turn-off. In fact, when I see that, I usually just chuckle to myself and think: Someone needs validation. From a video game. Go figure. But hey, there have been some folk that I am GLAD they have PvP because with their attitudes it's best to burn off that aggression in a game as opposed to RL.

[achwas]

(to avoid wall of text)

 

 

Actually, the "good old days" weren't like that at all.

 

In fact, once upon a time (I was there, so I know) there was actually a code of honor around PvP and it was founded on the notion that non-consensual PvP was just being a *******.

 

To be blunt, once upon a time, if your buddies found out you were a "PKer" (i.e., someone who deliberately seeks out and kills people who aren't PvPers) they'd whack your butt themselves and corpse camp you until you got the message.

 

What message, you ask? Well, it was kind of simple, really, and logical if you think more than three seconds ahead of your own instant gratification:

 

1. Ganking on folk who have no interest in PvP gives PvP overall a black eye, which,

2. Makes it much less likely that those who are curious about PvP will ever do more than be curious about it, which,

3. Lowers the number of new PvPers you get to enjoy (i.e., "fresh meat"), and also,

4. Ensures that those who do not like PvP (i.e., the majority, check the numbers, friend) continue to insist on mechanics that prevent as much of this behavior as possible.

 

In short, friend, your perspective is precisely the reason that World PvP has continued to become passe' AND why there are now different servers for it, AS WELL AS why there continues to be backlash and increasing strictures to segregate PvP from PvE unless you specifically opt into it.

 

Succinctly... players who think as you seem to are the reason PvP "can't have nice things".

 

Mind you, this comes to you from someone who began gaming life as a PvPer with UO and EQ and, by the time I got to AC, could see enough of where it was going to determine it was already largely ruined. Today, I'll duel, but you really won't see me PvPing anymore because, frankly, twitch ain't skill, being able to jump real fast in a circle ain't skill, and theorycrafting ain't skill. Skill is largely no longer an element excepting to the extent that correct use of timing, situational awareness, and knowledge of your spells and their effective use are concerned (and frankly, friend, that ain't skill either, it's just basic technique).

 

 

^^ this - true for me in almost every aspect. Rather scary

 

And about the PvP-crowd these days : mostly pure thuggery and bullying, ambush-style group-ganking players.

The "necessary" or rather unavoidable PvP during the rakghoul event such as around the Banta worldboss showed this all too clearly, with "gank-teams" setting up smack on the route from medical respawn droid to target site , attacking players and ops while those are "on-mob" or similar cheapskate thuggery.

 

Honourable PvP ? That's solely for the outside observer to judge, mind you, since almost every villain in history considered himself (herself) a good man and entirely vindicated and "within the social mores" about his/her actions.

 

I'd recall like a scientific psychological study with analysis of the type of personalities involved with the pvp crowd...

Edited April 21, 2012 by achwas

[Deyjarl]

To be honest it is hard to take any of those claiming to not understand why people are bothered by this seriously. I suspect they are just trolling. Because I really doubt anyone can be that naive and not understand it. So they are just posting to stir the pot.

[MajikMyst]

Just keep yourself vaccinated.. Problem solved..

 

/thread

[Deyjarl]

Just keep yourself vaccinated.. Problem solved..

 

/thread

 

Wrong. Vaccinated doesn't solve the people intentionally tagging one of a group of mobs in the hobs you AOE it and get flagged.

[DeathDiciple]

To be honest it is hard to take any of those claiming to not understand why people are bothered by this seriously. I suspect they are just trolling. Because I really doubt anyone can be that naive and not understand it. So they are just posting to stir the pot.

 

Cause they're not on the receiving end, therefore collecting tears and trolling, yeah. Guess its fun for the first time but gets old fast.

 

The whole issue seems more like a bug/side effect to me than BW intention. Same as AOE flagging that was changed earlier.

 

As for people qqing about qqers and asking for 'good ole days', im gonna say one thing - PVP is pointless without risk vs reward and actual consequences. There are no consequences here, so i have a hard time taking pvpers seriously. You can kill the same guy 1000 times and all you did was wasted your time, the biggest turn off in pvp logic here to me.

[Dext]

I agree. His example was most certainly griefing. Why should he have to go running away from another player when he was there questing? I donot think BioWare tested this event well enough and give it some close consideration to how it could effect others.

 

That is why you have vaccine on hand at all times.

[michaelusaf]

If you select the "always off" option, exactly right.

 

If you want to indulge in PvP, you simply uncheck the option or use a kybd. command.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

Totally. I would turn it off for good. I hate PVP. Mostly the losers that talked smack. In real life that would be cool, due to that person having to back it up. In a game it sucks since you just keep respawning forever. I joined a PVE server thinking it would be PVE, but got accidently flagged pvp due to going to a republic zone, and got killed while fighting a mob.

 

DEVS: Please, if possible, enable a perma non-pvp ability. You would make a lot of people happy, and the gankers could continue to gank and act like little children to their hearts desire. Win/Win for both-the adults and the kiddies that like to be "tough guys" online.

[Phydra]

You must be one of those temple types sitting around tython with your head in a data pad

No way to fight a war it demands action

 

Let's just say I choose my battles wisely; the key word (ironically enough) being "choose".

 

Capiche?

[Phydra]

As for people qqing about qqers and asking for 'good ole days', im gonna say one thing - PVP is pointless without risk vs reward and actual consequences. There are no consequences here, so i have a hard time taking pvpers seriously. You can kill the same guy 1000 times and all you did was wasted your time, the biggest turn off in pvp logic here to me.

 

Actually, you make a solid point here, albeit that it is not the one you thought you made.

 

Originally, PvP was about military and tactical skill; the "reward" was the status and reputation (i.e., your own folks acknowledging you had 'the mad skillz' and the opponent(s) acknowledging it as well by anything from immediately vacating an area when you were in it to running like rabbits to generally choosing not to engage you because... well... the outcome was all but predictable).

 

The "risks" were about what you would imagine; players who were up and coming would seek you out to "prove themselves", blood feuds and nemesis statuses were the conversations in the community, and grudging respect or embittered dislike were about as far as things went.

 

Today, it's generally about psychological terror and predation; with the general mindset of "a kill is a kill" (blow a raspberry at the concept of "skill") and the players who are of the "old school variety" as above mentioned often get lumped in because it is harder and harder to stand out as "being different" when you're an intermittent exception in the ocean of common uncouthness.

 

The "risks" today are quite minimal because the community of PvP players is just as fractured as ever; there is little to no community enforcement of standard, no commonly accepted "rules of engagement", no foundation of "a code". It's basically, "if a target comes along, you must gank it". (Insert Devo-esque music here)

 

Most PvPers seem to think they are somehow "different" or "special" because they can come up with creative (i.e. exploitative) ways to flag and then, gank people who obviously have no interest in PvP. This is just rationalized idiocy and frankly, deserves nothing but derision.

 

There are still exceptions to the rule. In fact, I spent about an hour last night with roughly fifteen examples of it. We were awaiting the arrival of the pod to trigger the sarlacc boss and in rolled a bunch of flagged Empire players. Naturally, my first thought was, "Well, no AoE and we're probably in for another "drag to reset" competition to try and keep our place as "those who were here first".

 

I explained to the ones standing around that this was my fourth try and the event ends on the 24th; also, that if they would be kind enough to allow us the boss for being here first, I'd happily return and help them kill it when it respawned. (after all, I still helped the Empire players even after they reset the boss out from under me repeatedly... best way I know to ensure there's one less competitor in future, right?)

 

This group remained with us, allowed their flags to drop, the pod showed up, we triggered, they helped us kill it, and, for a moment, it was actually "like it used to be".... just players being a community and not consumed by self-interest and a willingness to run over anyone who happened to get in the way.

 

Forgive me if I happen to prefer this perspective and mindset; it's a funny quirk of mine that I actually prefer the idea of community and cooperation and yes, actually, both were once very, very common in PvP environments, contrary to what is obviously today's popular opinion otherwise.

 

To the Empire players of Mind Trick who were on Tatootine last night, solid salute, mad props, and much respect... you definitely represent your faction and PvP on the whole better than most manage these days.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Phydra

[Deyjarl]

That is why you have vaccine on hand at all times.

 

You can keep repeating this, that does not solve the problem. There are ways to grief without the vaccine.

 

 

If you aren't going to contribute seriously, would you just stop?

[JerokTalram]

You can keep repeating this, that does not solve the problem. There are ways to grief without the vaccine.

 

 

If you aren't going to contribute seriously, would you just stop?

 

This thread is about using the explosion to flag people not about every exploit available to flag people.

 

I don't think you will find too many people arguing that people should be tricking people into attacking their target so they get flagged for PvP. Fine BW needs to fix that.

 

But the solution to avoiding get flagged by rakghoul infection is to vaccinate. Sure it won't solve every problem but it will solve the problem of the OP.

Edited April 22, 2012 by JerokTalram

[Veniras]

"That's what you'd say, but that wouldn't wash with Sith. No, he'd like a bit of pleading. Add spice to it. In fact, he'd probably tell you what he was going to do before he did it. "I'm going to pull your head off." "Oh no, please, don't pull my head off." "I'm going to pull your head off, because I don't like your head.

 

HA! This actually made me laugh out loud.

"I don't advise a haircut, man. All hairdressers are in the employment of the Empire. Hairs are your midichlorians. They pick up signals from the cosmos, and transmit them directly into the brain. This is the reason the Rattataki are uptight."

[Darkulous]

BW just needs to get over it and make single faction servers for these people. Although, I guess they'll complain about low population than.

[Rowejob]

I don't get it. You don't lose anything when you die (maybe a few credits)...Why does it matter. Unlike EVE if someone killed you all your stuff you worked for is gone.

 

So you died...rez and keep playing and stop ************.

[Restepor]

As long as it stops flagging us for PvP, it would be fine. But yeah, it is something that it is annoying.

[Rayla_Felana]

What is it with 90 pound weaklings that have never been in an actual fight in their entire lives and mmorpg's?

 

DOMINATOOOOR!

 

No but seriously.

 

If you feel that playing against other people is more fun than playing with them, well heck, to each their own.

 

If you play against other people in an attempt to full fill some need for domination over other human beings that is not provided for in your normal life, you're just pathetic.

 

If you're the later, and feel the need to look down on people who play a PvE centered video game and don't have the wish to pretend it's competitive, the word pathetic isn't enough to describe whats wrong with you.

 

If you where as good at video games as you like to believe you'd be getting paid to play starcraft.

 

Now that that's handled, to the topic. Ya, that's bull. But not totally unexpected.

 

Bioware seems to be pushing for PvP as a stopgap for their inability to create end game content, but only 10% or so of the population is bothering to pvp.

 

My guess is that the mindset is somewhere along the lines of "It's just because they havnt TIRED IT!!!! WOOHOO LETS POP THE CHERRY!!"

 

Truth be told, pvp in this game sucks. That's why people dont do it. If you expected it to be polished and well developed you didn't read much of the marketing material.

 

The push the devs are making on pvp is based on the fact that they dont need to develop pvp content. Create a map, dump players in it and they entertain themselves.

 

Personally if I want to compete, i'll go play starcraft or league of legends Swtor is about cooperative play against environmental hazards.

 

Everything I could have possibly said.

[Entropicus]

Bioware put in a nifty green smoke thing to let you know to avoid that person if you didn't want to get infected.

[JerokTalram]

Bioware seems to be pushing for PvP as a stopgap for their inability to create end game content, but only 10% or so of the population is bothering to pvp.

 

You should know that your credibility is completely lost when you make up numbers like this. I stopped reading as soon as I saw this rediculous statement. I don't know what's worse -- you making false statements or some poster saying he agrees with your fiction.

[Danakar]

What BioWare needs to put in is an option in the preferences called 'No PvP'. Then you can't be flagged by any means unless you remove the checkmark. You also can't heal/buff/rez/harm other people that are flagged for PvP.

 

And if you had the 'No PvP' on and wanted to cue for PvP or enter an Open World PvP area, it would simply come back with a message stating that you can't participate because you have 'No PvP' on and you wouldn't be able to proceed.

 

Implementing that mechanic will benefit everyone that does not want to be forced or exploited into PvP and only harms 1 type of person, the griefer (who most often makes use of exploits to flag unsuspecting players). And we can do without those in my opinion.

 

I've seen a griefer at work, being so 'manly' on his level 50 PvP geared Marauder whilst exploiting a bug that flags you for PvP through your companion. And did he target level 50 Republic characters? No, he was targeting the level 35-45 Republic players around the Stardream Shipwreck and used exploits so their companions would attack him and thus flag the players who were just trying to enjoy the Rakghoul event (on a RP-PvE server).

 

So BioWare? Please just give people a means to completely opt out of PvP if they are not interested in PvP.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Danakar

[Deyjarl]

This thread is about using the explosion to flag people not about every exploit available to flag people.

 

It is all part of the same problem.

[Deyjarl]

I don't get it. You don't lose anything when you die (maybe a few credits)...Why does it matter. .

 

Because they don't want to PvP and are being forced to.

[Deyjarl]

You should know that your credibility is completely lost when you make up numbers like this.

 

A Lord of the Rings Online Dev once when asked about numbers said the number of people who never PvP'd vastly outnumbered players who even just stepped into PvP once. He wasn't even comparing regular PvPers to stickly PvEer's but even those that only went out in it once and the numbers were heavily in favor of PvE only.

 

 

You look at numbers on different games, PvE servers to PvP, Success of PvP games to PvE, the same conclusions can be made. More people are interested in the PvE side.

[Kaphik]

I find it kind of funny that people clamor for immersion, world events, and a living, changing game universe, then when something happens that affects everyone like this event, they complain that they are forced to do something they don't like. These events don't last long at all, and if you really, really, really have an aversion to pvp, then run away and hide, because that is what your character would do if it were real.

[TziganeNZ]

I find it kind of funny that people clamor for immersion, world events, and a living, changing game universe, then when something happens that affects everyone like this event, they complain that they are forced to do something they don't like. These events don't last long at all, and if you really, really, really have an aversion to pvp, then run away and hide, because that is what your character would do if it were real.

The event itself is fine. No problems with it - think it's a great idea. Bring on more, please!

 

Being forced into a playstyle I abhor by the actions of another player is not fine. And, on a PvE server, why should I be the one to "run away and hide"?