Why play a Merc?

[SWaotc]

My main is Merc Arsenal and i never PVP with it, I like a challenge but frustration is the name of the game for arsenal in PVP unless your supported. I love it for PVE though.

 

I hear good things about PT in PVP so i think i'll try that.

[McGarnagle]

My main is Merc Arsenal and i never PVP with it, I like a challenge but frustration is the name of the game for arsenal in PVP unless your supported. I love it for PVE though.

 

I hear good things about PT in PVP so i think i'll try that.

 

it's fun and much better than arsenal. The only thing that ticks me off is powertech pyro is better. Yet merc pyro is still an effective class.

[ShadowAxx]

The key difference....Rapid shots for pyro are useful. Rapid shots for arsenal are worthless. A Pyro can do incendiary missile, thermal detonator, railshot, unload (which procs railshot at the start so if interrupted not a big deal), most likely railshot again, then rapid shots which can put a slow on the target and proc/refresh combustible gas cylinder which is added elemental damage on top of added rapid shot damage due to a burning target. So while powershot can proc another railshot, getting interrupted is not big deal since rapid shots are effective. Plus it's not really necessary especially post 1.2. Rapid shots can finish off a target at that point. On the other hand arsenal must get off some casted abilities (mostly tracer) to be effective. Plus pyro don't start a fight casting, which is when an enemy is really looking to interrupt. Normally by the time unload is channeling the enemy is looking to pop defensive cooldowns or stuck in their rotation. On the other hand, against arsenal, the first thing an enemy notices is the cast bar for tracer and interrupts it right away. That gimps the entire rotation and makes arsenal a sitting duck.

 

Great follow up. I agree with everything you have added. Which leads me to make another point...

 

... one of the benefits of building POWER as a stat, it makes rapid shots even more effective. When I am running all buffs and gear fitted with the end-power-surge enhancements, my primary blaster hits for 1025max and the 2nd blaster for 175 max. So as you say you can very easily burn down targets while the bigger hitter attacks are on cool down PLUS you are shedding any heat build up you might have.

 

I'd also mention, while the big ticket hits are on cool down, tossing in a regular missile shot with rapid shots is also a nice rotation.

[SneakyErvin]

The key difference....Rapid shots for pyro are useful. Rapid shots for arsenal are worthless. A Pyro can do incendiary missile, thermal detonator, railshot, unload (which procs railshot at the start so if interrupted not a big deal), most likely railshot again, then rapid shots which can put a slow on the target and proc/refresh combustible gas cylinder which is added elemental damage on top of added rapid shot damage due to a burning target. So while powershot can proc another railshot, getting interrupted is not big deal since rapid shots are effective. Plus it's not really necessary especially post 1.2. Rapid shots can finish off a target at that point. On the other hand arsenal must get off some casted abilities (mostly tracer) to be effective. Plus pyro don't start a fight casting, which is when an enemy is really looking to interrupt. Normally by the time unload is channeling the enemy is looking to pop defensive cooldowns or stuck in their rotation. On the other hand, against arsenal, the first thing an enemy notices is the cast bar for tracer and interrupts it right away. That gimps the entire rotation and makes arsenal a sitting duck.

 

Yep, screw up the high damage rotation for an arsenal merc and you get several extra seconds to waste him. This will never be the case with pyro mercs because they can get the same burst as arsenal but in fewer seconds with very few cast time skills. It just costs a little bit more heat, but then on the other hand pyro rapid shots are both free and deadly.

[Elboc]

Personally I love my DPS Arsenal Merc in PvP. you cant beat 6k heatseeker missile crits and with specced 1.5 sec tracer missile casts I dont find we have bad mobility. Plus we make a decent ball carrier.

[Yazule]

Training dummies are one thing, a Raid is another. Maybe the numbers are better, in my world, due to moving and repositioning, heat management, who get's more aggro (like I said, I don't open up with my heaviest hitters, in lieu of letting the Tank get good aggro and not make the Healers work as hard) I'm sure the dummies will show pure output but it's not real world. Pyro has almost no skills that are not instant cast, allowing me to run, move around, whatever, and still be able to get off some of my best moves, on the target.

 

I still want to do more testing on this and get some better gear (there's always better gear) and see where it goes. Either way, I love my Merc. No matter what, the player has to have fun and play a class and tree that fits your play style.

 

I agree 100% if you are not hitting enrage timers your dps is good enough and if you are having fun you win...

 

and I agree 100% dummies vs raid are different things because PYRO running around still has his dots on... i just do not have a pyro merc in raid to compair against... if they put out dual spec i will use it to test myself which still would not be that good unless i play pyro until i have the kind of rotation body memory that I have on my arsenal.

[gholland]

I'm curious... why do you read on the Commando forums that they suck... and here I am reading the mirror class folks are much less unhappy with the state of their class. Thoughts?

[TheNinjaboy]

So I took a break for awhile and decided when I came back I'd let my sniper rest for a bit. I started a Vanguard and it seemed OK and figured I'd try out the Merc.

 

I reached level 10 last night and I started doing some research on merc at work. It seems like the overwhelming majority of the post about mercs are negative, or that the PT is overall a better class. I realize this is the forum and people are generally whiny about their classes so I take it was grain of salt haha.

 

My original inclination to play merc was that it would be a good mix of pvp and solo ability (with the heals), but the more I read on it sounds like mercs struggle in pvp (I was thinking it would be like a paladin from WoW) and that the PvE becomes quite boring. I'm pretty early on and not afraid to re-roll and go PT. I like the feel and aesthetics of the Mercenary but I don't want to be bored later on. Any Advice from high level Mercs? Or Powertechs for that matter.

 

- Yethek

 

Mercs are non-Playable since 1.2.

 

Only PvErs and really BAD players on low pop servers claim they're good post 1.2.

[StaticJoe]

Mercs are non-Playable since 1.2.

 

Only PvErs and really BAD players on low pop servers claim they're good post 1.2.

 

 

 

On what are you basing this statement? This nonsense has been repeatedly debunked by people who PVP, WZ and FP on a daily basis so I'm genuinely curious as to how you arrived at this erroneous conclusion?

 

 

The following is a series of quotes from previous posters in this very thread--feel free to attempt to refute them if you like:

 

 

 

 

Personally I love my DPS Arsenal Merc in PvP. you cant beat 6k heatseeker missile crits and with specced 1.5 sec tracer missile casts I dont find we have bad mobility. Plus we make a decent ball carrier.

 

 

 

Pyro versus Arsenal... I don't know. I know which I think is more fun to play, but I'm still not sure arsenal is always the best DPS choice. However, part of the fun is being able to play both and trying to figure out what works best. So I'd say give them both a try and stay with which ever build provides the best results.

 

 

 

Mercs get two viable dps specs, arsenal and pyro. Both are good for both pvp and pve, depending on playstyle and skill. Currently my merc (pyro) is topping the charts in WZs, hes in full recruit gear with 2 BM guns and BM wrist/belt.

 

The burst control after the patch is insane! The free railshot is just very reliable to pull off a perfect burst with, which cripples pretty much anyone, either making them turn to try and flee or they decide to stay and you get the kill either way. Its great for preasure on healers aswell.

 

I cant state an opinion about arsenal since I gave up on it a while back. Nothing beats setting things on fire, not even big missiles and kabooms.

 

I also play a pyro PT which is tons of fun aswell, I cant decide which I like the best, merc or pt, they are just both so much fun.

 

They both bring some extra things to the table. Especially in the new WZ I love the fact that mercs can CC around the cannons when people are trying to cap, time it right and you catch the enemy with their CC breaker down.

 

 

 

arsenal merc is probably the most consistant throughput for dps on long fights and we have good bursting in pvp. We are immobile (KITING IS A JOKE IN THIS GAME ANYWAY) when dpsing so in pvp we are good in a premade but mediocre at best 1v1.

 

for pve raid though, we are a beast in the DPS catagory and due to a rather simple rotation you can spend more time assessing your next move, being aware of mechanics etc.

 

it is not some crazy complex rotation, basic rotation only uses tracer missile, heat seeking missile, rail shot and unload. There are other dps abilities that are used for bursting but they make the rotation overheat so only used when needed.

 

We do have a decent CC in pve, as well as a couple knockbacks

 

so for raiding merc arsenal is great

 

for pvp you really have to work hard at position and tactics to be in line with other classess. Pre-50 though arsenal merc is awsomesauce... once you hit 50 though you will feel gimpy.

 

some people go pyro because they can run around putting up dots and get huge damage numbers but overall i find their single target DPS wanting (one cure and i remove all their dots)...

 

Merc healing is not great, just got nerfed but still doable in pve and still not bad at all in pvp though people are so used to being god mode in pvp (pre 1.2) that they think they are gimmped now.

 

that is my take, been playing merc since day -7 (got in early)

 

if you dont like the style then dont play it, best advice i can give is to do what is fun.

 

 

 

the only thing I have to say about arsenal post 1.2 in pvp is that the new TM animation, makes me less of a target.

I deal the same, if not more damage than before. And I never ever .. ever overheat unless I'm pushing all my aoe buttons in rapid succession. If you are a good tactician and know how to choose your fights you will rule the battlefield.

 

 

People think the merc arsenal toon is easy to play and yes it can be but it can also be very complexed.

 

The rotations can be as simple and as complexed as you like, generally the more complexed and reactively you play the greater damage you can create whilst controling heat.

 

One thing I will argue is that the merc has the ability to do good sustainable damage on raid boss mobs but can also actually sustain an AOE Dps that cannot be matched by any other class.

 

Big downside to the merc arsenal is the lack of any form of interrupt and the main attack (tracer missle) being an interruptable and static cast. In PVP this can make soloing and 1 on 1 battles really unfair and incredible frustrating.

 

Now tracer missle damage has been reduced considerably a good balancing move from bioware would be either to add a little more manouverability or range and an interrupt to the class. Making Heatseeker a static channeled cast or 2 seconds and making tracer missle timer dependent but non-channeling.

 

My reasoning behind this is the importance of tracer missle as a building block for any further damage and the lack of impressiveness when youve done the work and heat seekers just sort of pop out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2012 by StaticJoe

[Macroecon]

The key difference....Rapid shots for pyro are useful.

 

Well actually..... In PvE they have some use. In PvP using rapid shots is actually a negative. The problem here is how rapid shots is implemented. Rapid shots actually comes off as 6 or more attacks, not one attack. The large number of attacks, half of which are low accuracy offhand attacks means that it is almost a certainty that one of those attacks will miss.

 

Missing a shot in PvE doesn't cause any negative kickback other than lower dps. But in PvP, missing a shot vs. the most popular (amongst top players) subclass results in a negative kickback (via Retaliation) of over 1,000 HP. The exact amount will depend on the player involved, but assuming two equally geared players, Rapid Shots will result in damage to the BH of slightly more than the damage he inflicts on the enemy. Hence the negative utility of Rapid Shots.

[TheNinjaboy]

On what are you basing this statement?

 

What am I basing it on?

 

Read the link in my tagline.

 

Feel free to refute anything in that link posted by me.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Meluna
insults

[Kgeorg]

Mercs are non-Playable since 1.2.

 

Only PvErs and really BAD players on low pop servers claim they're good post 1.2.

 

Please speak for yourself. I top DPS in both PVE and PVP as well as many other BH's on my server. There are issues but they are highly exaggerated especially on these forums. The class doesn't become unplayable with an AOE nerf.

 

If anything, the changes allow those who can actually play the class to be separated from those who cannot. Have fun playing whatever other class you think is OP until they get nerfed as well.

[TheNinjaboy]

Please speak for yourself. I top DPS in both PVE and PVP as well as many other BH's on my server. There are issues but they are highly exaggerated especially on these forums. The class doesn't become unplayable with an AOE nerf.

 

If anything, the changes allow those who can actually play the class to be separated from those who cannot. Have fun playing whatever other class you think is OP until they get nerfed as well.

 

So let me get this straight -

 

#1. You don't counter anything in the link.

 

#2. You claim that playing a broken class "separates people that know how to play the class from those that don't". Great logic here BTW. You support this with no substance whatsoever.

 

#3. You then imply that all? some? the other classes are OP further insinuating that everyone is OP except the Merc. lol

 

 

Please explain to everyone how you counter the following in a PvP match when they jump you -

 

Marauder, TankAsin, Juggernaut, Powertech - Pyro

 

I need a good laugh.

 

 

Baddies need to stop posting these vague, unsubstantiated, non-factual, opinionated statements about the class when they either play on a dead server or actually managed to find players that are worse then they are in PvP.

 

You play a Merc on Fatman, Prophecy of the Five, or any other decently popped server and you're fodder for everything I listed.

 

There is absolutely no reason to play a DPS Mercenary at all right now and there are absolutely no facts that you can provide us with to disprove that fact. PERIOD.

 

DPS Merc right now is pure trash.

 

The good players are all fine with having them REVAMP Pyro and Arsenal for Mercenary but REVAMP means just that... REVAMP. Not break, X ability, nerf survivability, lie about 10% damage reduction on one critical ability, then break the only ability that was actually buffed.

 

This is why the game dies.

 

700,000 subs left for a good reason since launch and it's mainly because the Devs listened to misinformed and misguided players like yourself.

Edited April 22, 2012 by TheNinjaboy

[Jaxarale]

If anything, the changes allow those who can actually play the class to be separated from those who cannot.

 

The problem with this statement is: it's simply not true.

 

If it wasn't a 25% nerf due to the HSM "fix" then I could agree with you on your L2play scenario...

 

The problem is I know how to play and I know I have gone from 1500ish dps to 1100ish. Now 400 dps lost is not a big deal if your running around in WoW and you do 40k dps... when your doing 1500 and loose 400 it is crippling.

 

Lets put it in more simple terms:

I am a hunter doing 40k on a fight in WoW and am running near the top of dpsers, patch comes out, I now do 30k and everyone else is still doing 40k... (you see the -10k dps = 25% nerf???) I get sat by my raid leader because the loss of dps makes my class nonviable to take to raiding...

 

It has nothing to do with L2play... the numbers dont lie, no matter how good you are you CAN NOT make your missile's hit for 25% more than what they hit for... its just not possible bud. I wish it were, and if you have some great galactic secret that none of us nubs have and you know how to make a missile do more damage than it actually can... please share this world changing information with the rest of us!

 

Otherwise... shut down the L2play crap because its not a valid point when it comes to this conversation.

[Anysao]

Duel blasters, jetpack, wrist-mounted rocket, jetpack-mounted rockets, electro darts, explosive darts, poison sleep darts, rocket boots, heavy armor, kolto healing Packs, and THE FLAMETHROWER!

 

Hope this cleared it up to you why merc is the way to go!

[jenanna]

I have played since early start and have ONLY played as a Healer with my Merc. I have seen all the changes made over time, and this was most likely the most unwarranted one. We were NEVER the OP healer in this game, why we needed to be smashed down to a pathetic level is beyond me.

 

Three letters explain why it happened. P. V. P.

 

Same reason they screwed with Tracer Missile. It had nothing to do with its power or our rotations (since the entire tree centers around tracer missile still) it all had to do with PvP whiners wanting to break the game so they didnt have to learn how to play their class. people cried that mercs were too hard to kill, so they made multiple changes to screw over our healing and survival.

 

I dont PvP, I dont care about PvP and I am sick of PvP screwing over PvE in every single god damned game I play.

 

I cant stand playing a merc healer now because of the changes, but at least as DPS we are still really good. Merc is still by far my favorite class to DPS as, but if I was going to heal I would play my Sorc. Sorcs are still stupidly easy to heal as and the so called 'nerf' they got just means they have to sometimes stand in their own healing circle now...

[FigeroMentel]

Well, Powertech is vastly superior, but only in stats and abilities, not in function. I find I survive much longer than Powertechs simply because I'm not right out in front getting the brunt of the fire. The PTs do a ton of damage, then get killed. I sit back and dump fire on them from a distance.

 

In practice, the two are far more balanced. Of course, one on one, the powertech would win out, but then, one on one the Merc loses every time. It's really a better character in a group setting than solo... Which you wouldn't think would be the case, being that he's supposed to be a one-man army, but whatever.

[JustTray]

But Merc Arsenal IS broken. Literally. Tracer debuff isn't working on self anymore. Go see for yourself. That's why your dps went from 1500-1200 overnight with one emergency change.

 

I don't get why this is so hard for everyone to figure out, took me less than 5 minutes.

[StaticJoe]

But Merc Arsenal IS broken. Literally. Tracer debuff isn't working on self anymore. Go see for yourself. That's why your dps went from 1500-1200 overnight with one emergency change.

 

I don't get why this is so hard for everyone to figure out, took me less than 5 minutes.

 

 

I never made a distinction between Arsenal and Pyro, I simply challenged the unsubstantiated assertion the Merc class as a whole is broken.

 

That said, if we are going to compare classes then yes, based on what I've read in the BH and Merc forums Pyro is the way to go for PVP--in PVE, I know I've had to change my tactics relying less on DFA and TM going with more Rocket Punch, Flamethrower and other attacks....but broken...?? That's a matter of opinion and one I do not share...now, is the Merc class gimped? Most definitely yes

Edited April 24, 2012 by StaticJoe

[Hizoka]

Honestly play a merc is having to use more then 3-5 buttons is too complex for you DPS wise. THey are far and away the most simplistic class in the game. However DO NOT QQ when some other class out DPSes as Zeoller has stated "no class as easy as a merc is to play should do as much damage as the harder classes"

[StaticJoe]

Honestly play a merc is having to use more then 3-5 buttons is too complex for you DPS wise. THey are far and away the most simplistic class in the game. However DO NOT QQ when some other class out DPSes as Zeoller has stated "no class as easy as a merc is to play should do as much damage as the harder classes"

 

 

I played a Merc for two reasons:

 

1) To wield 2 blasters

 

2) To join the Mandalorians

[Jorks]

Honestly play a merc is having to use more then 3-5 buttons is too complex for you DPS wise. THey are far and away the most simplistic class in the game. However DO NOT QQ when some other class out DPSes as Zeoller has stated "no class as easy as a merc is to play should do as much damage as the harder classes"

 

Then change the rotation to be harder. I have no problem with hard rotations. I usually pick classes with harder rotations because I find them more enjoyable. This is the first game I pick a class based off who I actually want to be in the game. The fix isn't... "well that class is easier to play so make it so no one plays them." If the issue is that the rotation is to easy, change the mechanics so that with a harder rotation we can keep up in both PVE and PVP.

[Benodach]

Merc is a fun class full of flavor. That is why I play it. I love BH, loved the story line, and love the look of the gear. It is a great class for PvE, too. Very satisfying experience in solo'ing, questing, and raiding.

 

However, in PvP the class sucks. Honestly and truly. With patience and gear you can be a good healer. But can you be a good ranged DPS? No. Because "good ranged DPS" doesn't really exist in this game. Unlike other MMOs, BW has given everything and anything to the melee classes so that they counter ranged. You can scrounge kills in TDM fashion, but for the overall flow of the match you are pretty irrelevant.

 

I have full BM modded appropriately and currently gathering WH pieces. I have been playing BH since closed beta. I have pvp'ed in all three specs and have pvp'ed Arsenal and Pyro post 1.2. My preference is Pyro for what should be obvious reasons but even Pyro is sub-standard.

 

We dps Mercs are great for one thing and one thing only...killing people who are focused on fighting someone else. Boy isn't that fun. Sure, there will always be that moment where you wreck faces. But if you think your Merc is really a great pvp class in this game then you just haven't played many other classes at 50.

 

My Merc will always be my main but I'm saddened at how much BW has forced us to be a PvE class. It seems like the PvP side of things was handed over to Powertech/Vanguard. Even that would be fine IF we could switch advanced classes but we cannot. So you kicked us twice. Thanks.

 

Hey, I roll in premades every night with my guild. We easily win 90% of our matches (last night we went 12/13 against mostly premades). The WH gear is rolling in for all of us. But is it a satisfying experience? No, not really.

 

My damage numbers might be on par. My medals might be on par. My kdr might be on par. But why? Because I know how to hide like a little girl and scrounge kills. I know that when ANY class focuses me I have to start running. I have to play smart, like everyone else who does well in PvP, but for a Merc playing smart means playing like a *****. Not much fun.

 

Pyro is so great in PvP? Heh. Yeah, it's great when your dots get constantly cleansed or eaten up with a myriad of bubbles. The mobility is great, too, when we have to STAND STILL CONSTANTLY to channel/cast and cool down our rail shot. So much for that idea of run and gun unless you like Rapid Shots which tickles anybody with real gear.

 

If you want to really pump out the dps needed to take down a healer or tank as Pyro you have to stand still so you might as well play Arsenal which is gimped out the butt with the way they backloaded its damage.

 

Then if our mobility killing is left to the squishies we should be good right? Nah, they're given all the counters in the world to close the gap with us.

 

The PvP mechanics are entirely borked for ranged classes because there is nearly no ability to kite someone in this game. Maybe it's time to give Merc/Commando a leg shot.

 

I love my Merc only because I really like being a BH. But is it fun? Nah. My assassin is fun. My marauder is fun. My scoundrel is even fun under the right circumstances.

 

Oh well. I guess when you go down the dark road of knee jerk "fixes" every patch, some class always ends up the black sheep. Too bad it had to be me.

[luda-kressh]

Its a terrible class and should be removed from the game. I would suggest a fun class like Imperial Agent or Inquisitor, they also happen to be useful in PVP.

[Spek]

Cure needs to be done correctly. Only use it if you are out of the fight or were able to LOS. Curing yourself in the middle of a fight is a waste of a cooldown and is a net damage loss. You use a cooldown to stop the dot, but then he just hits you with another one where the intial hit is harder than the dot ticking. You are better off just attacking instead of wasting a gcd on cure.

 

You'd be amazed at how many people do NOT re-apply the dot and for things like assault specialist commands a dot can make everything hit harder so the cure can be really useful.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Spek