The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[Chub]

The reason that employees where sent off could have actually been down to the fact that they where working temporarily until the game was launched. It could of just meant that they needed more developers, whilst the game was under construction.

[Coeru]

Well I can’t say I agree that it is dying, but bear in mind that when such a huge game like this launches, at first you will get huge numbers. Not everyone will stay. There were alot of people who didn’t play mmo's before star wars and were here just for the lore. The solo play pulled them in and many of them are still here.

 

The hardcore gamers who joined at launch are bored and many have left back to their old games or new games. There are many groups of people who play.

 

The people at swtor need to cater to all groups of people not just the hardcore, which is what they are starting to do. The hardcores will be very hard to please because they zip through everything so fast and exhaust themselves with getting the new gear. They get their new gear and they get bored.

 

Also the reason SWTOR had some record breaking subs at launch was because we were required to sign up for a sub even though we had a free 30 with the game. I saw it as manipulating the numbers a bit.

 

I don’t think its dying, but I believe the server pops are insanely low. My server was a big one too and there was always a 15-30 min queue at launch. It would make sense to merge some of the lower pop servers with others.

 

I hope they succeed. If they were to offer lifetime accounts I would buy one. If they go fp2, well we know how that will go. I hate micro-transactions as do many of us. I good way for them to figure out what we want is to ask everyone to fill out a form or something in private as many people won’t post on the forums because of trolls and flaming that goes on when someone has an unpopular opinion.

 

For my myself, I unsubbed for many reasons I will not list everything, but alot have to do with the recent changes with 1.2 and where the game is leading. The legacy unlocks were great but it really rubbed me the wrong way when I saw that I had unlocked many awesome things in the legacy system but was STILL required to spend millions of credits to get to use these "unlocks". It took me forever to save for the speeder piloting for level 40 and 50. I love crafting and I found I was always broke because crafting cost so much for mats and recipes just from the vendor. Then the skills were so much.

 

It was manageable before 1.2, though a little hard if you are not a slicer. Yet it’s so lame to have all these awesome unlocks for the legacy system that I worked hard to level by leveling alts, well I can’t enjoy most of them because they start at 500,000 credits. The changes in pvp that require insane amounts of commendations and the heavy decrease in commendations to go with that. The new pvp system seems to punish the losing team alot with zero even if they try to fight all the way from start to finish. Some fights you simply get steam rolled and many of us stick it out but now you get nothing at all sometimes, and if you enter a WZ late you don’t get anything at all.

 

Those are just a few reasons for me, there will be people who agree and those who disagree, and everyone has their own reasons for unsubing. There is an exit survey they will ask you to fill out and people should just vent their concerns directly to them. It’s up to them to decide what to do with that info. My hope is they make this game better and funner. It is a "game" and many people take things way too seriously in here.

[TheREALKyias]

Everyone should keep in mind that for BF3, EA shot themselves in the foot with their digital distribution by making it an Origin Exclusive.

 

I am sure that by limiting your digital outlets for PC sales (arguably the best way to sell PC games) you are going to hurt revenue.

 

SWTOR is still young. It is very pre-mature to say "they have declining subscriptions." Every MMO I played has a huge bulge at launch, numbers go down a bit (especially around summer time) and once more content is added, you see those numbers rise again.

[Morpurgo]

That's what you get when you start pulling green zone/red zone and restricted digital distribution crap at launch.

[RachelAnne]

Everyone should keep in mind that for BF3, EA shot themselves in the foot with their digital distribution by making it an Origin Exclusive.

 

I am sure that by limiting your digital outlets for PC sales (arguably the best way to sell PC games) you are going to hurt revenue.

 

SWTOR is still young. It is very pre-mature to say "they have declining subscriptions." Every MMO I played has a huge bulge at launch, numbers go down a bit (especially around summer time) and once more content is added, you see those numbers rise again.

 

BF3 has also suffered by DLC... I dont know about you guys here, but if I pay for a game which is not an MMO then I dont want to spend 10$ every month to be able to play further..

 

 

Regarding SWTOR,

 

well I will keep playing aslong its not a wow clone. As soon things like badly balanced LFG, ranked PVP only for premades - unfair match ups, addons come up I leave.

Not because of beeing a bad game, I really like it - no its because of the wow effect which I cant stand at any MMO

 

Needless to say I would love to get distance sliders to stop the grass pop!

Edited April 16, 2012 by RachelAnne

[Aloro]

Those whom have insider information know that some investors have actually pulled out, so EA is considering downsizing the team and working on their next project than throwing more money and getting more loss.

 

Your "insider information" is indistinguishable from wishful thinking mixed with a desire to brag. We're all supposed to be impressed that you know about things that were not disclosed to shareholders, I imagine. The problem is, you have apparent motivation to lie, and I have no reason to trust you when you make statements that seem implausible.

 

But please do prove me wrong! I'd love to see sources.

[Lt_Latency]

It Think Sw:Tor is ok for now.

 

 

I tend to watch MMO population on x-fire. I know it's not one hundred percent accurate but seems to get the general trend right most of the time. if you watch the play time of the population for every MMO scince WoW it goes like this.

 

 

Launch of News MMO. -> WoW takes a huge hit to the new MMO

As time passes. -> WoW goes back up as the new MMO falls.

 

 

This was starting to happen with SW:ToR but it shot back up with 1.2 So people are still interested and they do have more time to add new content.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Rivethed]

It's just sad that today's MMO developers REFUSE (seemingly) to learn from other companies triumphs and mistakes.

 

Folks bad mouth World of Warcraft all the time but Blizzard has set the industry standard for what players expect in an mmo. Period.

 

*** is so hard to understand?

 

I understand that features like cross-server grouping and such take time to develop but DEVELOPERS TODAY SHOULD KNOW IT'S EXPECTED.

 

There is no excuse for releaseing an mmo without standard features. Its just GREED on the part of the Suits.

 

Smoke on that awhile.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Rivethed

[Morpheous]

It's just sad that today's MMO developers REFUSE (seemingly) to learn from other companies triumphs and mistakes.

 

Folks bad mouth World of Warcraft all the time but Blizzard has set the industry standard for what players expect in an mmo. Period.

 

*** is so hard to understand?

 

I understand that features like cross-server grouping and such take time to develop but DEVELOPERS TODAY SHOULD KNOW IT'S EXPECTED.

 

There is no excuse for releaseing an mmo without standard features. Its just GREED on the part of the Suits.

 

Smoke on that awhile.

 

Those features take resources to develop, and depending how the engine works, the databases are setup, and various coding issues, it can be alot more difficult then "just make it happen".

 

Gamers seriously need to stop thinking that they know software development better than people actually educated to do so.

[TonyIommi]

Those features take resources to develop, and depending how the engine works, the databases are setup, and various coding issues, it can be alot more difficult then "just make it happen".

 

Gamers seriously need to stop thinking that they know software development better than people actually educated to do so.

 

Everyone is an arm chair programmer and they all seem to think they could do it better than company X Y or Z did. I study programming. I can tell you its an extremely time consuming process.

Edited April 16, 2012 by TonyIommi

[FSA_shadow]

Those whom have insider information know that some investors have actually pulled out, so EA is considering downsizing the team and working on their next project than throwing more money and getting more loss. There is a major problem in subscriptions, when the subs which people have now run out the ones which arnt active cause dont find game worth logging in it going to drop by a huge number and EA is aware of that, with coming games coming out it also going to drop, estimations behind close doors is less than 400k subs by mid year, there is some last ditch efforts taking place like throwing in a exploding char patch to appeal to the lesser minded people whom can be distracted by such ploys but the deeper thinkers dont fall for it.

 

They truly when decided to give the 30 days free was because of the subs falling it was setup as a PR damage control but would not taken place if not for the financial side struggling and loss of investors.

 

Haha.

[Orrow]

If EA lays off 500-1000 people there will be no saving SWTOR, if you stay after that you'll just be going down with the ship. EA has never had the patience or commitment to grow a product. If its not immediately successful if gets axed, then EA will just buy out a game studio blow another one hundred million on another title. This game could be a healthy 1.5-2.5 million subscription game if EA supported it long term but they wont, they want Blizzard money and if this game cant deliver that EA will shut it down.

[TonyIommi]

If EA lays off 500-1000 people there will be no saving SWTOR, if you stay after that you'll just be going down with the ship. EA has never had the patience or commitment to grow a product. If its not immediately successful if gets axed, then EA will just buy out a game studio blow another one hundred million on another title. This game could be a healthy 1.5-2.5 million subscription game if EA supported it long term but they wont, they want Blizzard money and if this game cant deliver that EA will shut it down.

 

Google john reticello talking about how many subs they need to keep the game profitable. Do some *********** research before you post nonsense here. Not once did they ever expect to hit 10 million subs. Don't presume ignorance on their part simply because your full of it.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/02/the-big-bet-ea-aims-at-a-half-million-subscribers-to-make-swt/

Edited April 16, 2012 by TonyIommi

[DragoAskani]

It's just sad that today's MMO developers REFUSE (seemingly) to learn from other companies triumphs and mistakes.

 

Folks bad mouth World of Warcraft all the time but Blizzard has set the industry standard for what players expect in an mmo. Period.

 

*** is so hard to understand?

 

I understand that features like cross-server grouping and such take time to develop but DEVELOPERS TODAY SHOULD KNOW IT'S EXPECTED.

 

There is no excuse for releaseing an mmo without standard features. Its just GREED on the part of the Suits.

 

Smoke on that awhile.

And yet people ***** and moan about wow all the time. So if you follow the formula too closely you may set yourself up to failure from that angle as well. But of course you didn't think of that did you?

[DragoAskani]

If EA lays off 500-1000 people there will be no saving SWTOR, if you stay after that you'll just be going down with the ship. EA has never had the patience or commitment to grow a product. If its not immediately successful if gets axed, then EA will just buy out a game studio blow another one hundred million on another title. This game could be a healthy 1.5-2.5 million subscription game if EA supported it long term but they wont, they want Blizzard money and if this game cant deliver that EA will shut it down.

 

You do realize that 500-1000 people is 5-10% of EAs current staffing right? So while its not a good thing, many big companies are having layoffs right now. Games sales are down across the board very badly.

[TonyIommi]

You do realize that 500-1000 people is 5-10% of EAs current staffing right? So while its not a good thing, many big companies are having layoffs right now. Games sales are down across the board very badly.

 

EA is also alot bigger than just Bioware. It could be that BW doesn't get touched. It's safe to assume that these will be targeted lay offs, trimming the fat so to speak. We don't know what the fat is, so again were back to speculation.

[ztee]

Those features take resources to develop, and depending how the engine works, the databases are setup, and various coding issues, it can be alot more difficult then "just make it happen".

 

Gamers seriously need to stop thinking that they know software development better than people actually educated to do so.

 

He didnt make any claims about knowing how it the development works.

 

He simply stated what people wanted - and i agree with him to a certain extent.

 

I dont care how "it works" - just what they provide, and atm its a half baked service.

 

This isnt a bad time waster, and ill probably play casually for a little bit longer, but come may 15th, i dont think it stands a chance (atleast for me) .....

[DragonianJedi]

Oh, I agree. This game is dying.

 

But guess what, nobody said it was dead, only that it was DYING.

 

Consider the following:

 

"Living" is what happens between the time something is born/created and something dies.

 

"Dying" is what happens between the time something is born/created and something dies.

 

The only real difference is the perspective one takes when viewing the situation. I prefer to think that the game is simply "living," knowing that someday the game will die and knowing that not a single person on this earth really knows when it will be dead.

 

: p

[TonyIommi]

He didnt make any claims about knowing how it the development works.

 

He simply stated what people wanted - and i agree with him to a certain extent.

 

I dont care how "it works" - just what they provide, and atm its a half baked service.

 

This isnt a bad time waster, and ill probably play casually for a little bit longer, but come may 15th, i dont think it stands a chance (atleast for me) .....

 

Okay so if may 15th comes and all the features are there would that make a difference? Tell me in a year from now if all that **** is in game will it make a difference? Will people look back and say mannnnn star wars didn't have X at launch? No of course not. Nobody cares about what you did or didn't have at launch. They care about what your bringing to the table as soon as a possible. In the long run successful mmos are not built on their launches they are built on what they add and how fast they add it. They are built on the GROWTH OF FEATURES. 1.3 is expected to contain many features including dual spec, group finder, server transfer, cross realm pvp and rated pvp. Some of those will likely get pulled back I'm sure but even if 4/5 of those make it were already getting there.

Edited April 16, 2012 by TonyIommi

[Icebergy]

Its a good thing I check the forums, otherwise I would have no idea that I am not enjoying the game and need to cancel...

[TheRealYukonSam]

In my view, they've done one thing really well, and that's to craft an interesting and engaging interactive story. They should capitalize on that and be cranking that material out crazy fast (biweekly at an absolute minimum).

 

Now, if they want to be an MMO with a long-term, deeply invested community, they need to give the tools to the community builders to make that happen. If you allow people to build communities, they will stick with you for years, if not decades.

 

I'm not holding my breath. I don't think the situation is dire, by any stretch, but I question the game's staying power in the long term.

[Orrow]

Google john reticello talking about how many subs they need to keep the game profitable. Do some *********** research before you post nonsense here. Not once did they ever expect to hit 10 million subs. Don't presume ignorance on their part simply because your full of it.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/02/the-big-bet-ea-aims-at-a-half-million-subscribers-to-make-swt/

 

I did my research, SWTOR is losing subs 5 months after its launch and EAs stock is dropping. If the lay offs happen this game will remain profitable in the same way Warhammer is currently profitable. No new development and a skeleton staff keeping the game running. If you think were going to see new development on a game with less then one million subs you're either an idiot or a blind fanboi. Either way there's no point debating it with you.

[EnufThree]

Of course it is declining, if you don't see it, you are straight up ignorant. If anyone was here at release, the servers were all at FULL capacity, now they have trouble breaking LIGHT capacity. Just remember, you'll always have the Star Wars movies, it'll help ease the pain of losing this from your life.

 

<--Honesty

 

Having trouble breaking light capacity? Lol wut?

 

When I log in most of them are listed as Standard. With a few heavy and light.

[Jenzali]

This game isn't even going to begin to die while the market is still churning out the same old medieval fantasy MMO after medieval fantasy MMO. You have no evidence, and most of the stuff you said is moot because they already said this game will continue to be profitable even if it drops below 1 million subscribers.

 

It's currently the best sci-fi MMO on the market and it's Star Wars to boot. It has a very solid playerbase of people who are tired of killing orcs and goblins.

 

So until something that caters to a similar playerbase comes out that can rival SWTOR's quality, this game is going to thrive. The MMO bandwagon jumpers will switch games every 4 months in search of their "perfect" MMO, but the strong Star Wars IP and story-drivenness holds a huge appeal to some that a little bit of PvP imbalance isn't going to shake.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Jenzali

[TonyIommi]

I did my research, SWTOR is losing subs 5 months after its launch and EAs stock is dropping. If the lay offs happen this game will remain profitable in the same way Warhammer is currently profitable. No new development and a skeleton staff keeping the game running. If you think were going to see new development on a game with less then one million subs you're either an idiot or a blind fanboi. Either way there's no point debating it with you.

 

Except that the CEO of the company LITERALLY SAYS THEY WILL REMAIN PROFITABLE with less than 1 million subs. Do your *********** research. If the game remains profitable they'll keep making content. Your absolutely correct theirs no point in debating it with you because you have NO EVIDENCE. Just because it takes blizzard 10 mil subs and 6-8 months to release content does not mean thats natural law. Rift does more with less. I expect swtor to do the same.

 

Also this thread title is misleading. This argument will never end. A year from now it will still be going on.

Edited April 16, 2012 by TonyIommi