The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[MikelGoff]

I'll throw my 2 cents in. Imo they keep it running and take your cash, while promising to fix said issues (everone knows what they are). I un subbed because of 1.2. They promised that it would change mmo's forever & that it would be ground breaking. I tracked this game for years hoping that it would be the game changer , they said that they'd do away with kill ten of these ten of those. That the crafting sytem would be worth it & that the sytem that they were gonna bring in made it easier for guilds and groups to operate.

The legacy system i waited soo long for is terrible. So we waited in vein from beta testing hoping that the very basic's would be fixed and for months they dangeled a scabby carrot in our faces . I have been gaming mmo's since 96

and was shocked to see the game in the state it was in upon release. The very basic things in mmo's that people expect weren't there. Simple things like lfg system (even though i cant stand pug's) i would have used the system, because thats what was needed. I was in a good guild not on a heavy server , but in the beginning like everyone else we plugged away and got our numbers up and we raided and cleared 95% of the content, hoping that 1.2 would be the answer to diminishing numbers on our server. The game is dying for a good reason, beacuse people were sold a lie. Once people did all the raiding they saw the game for exactly what it was unfinished. U cant bring in new content and not address the major issues at hand, hoping that people will stay with u through this (Testing) Phase. Thats what i saw it as, and am not paying good money to something thats broken . Maybe in a year or so when they have enough content and the bugs are fixed maybe just maybe people might return. But i cant see it happening as games like GW2 will change the way mmo's are made.

 

Can I have your stuff?

[ComeAndSee]

Bioware just has to master the art of dragging content out.

 

WoW had it down to a science.

[evildestroyer]

Tera is fine if you are into Raid or die or Chris Hansen specials, It's vast legal problem aside I just don't think it will put much of a dent in TOR's subscriber base, and when I say subscribers not the QQ brigade that purchased the game just to cry on the forums.

 

I do agree TERA wont put a huge dent. There will be some people leaving but not in droves.

 

GW2 and D3 are the big ones, many people i know are waiting for one of those or both of those games. I expect a HUGE decrease in server pop come may 15 and June 26 (rumored GW2 release)

[Geeluc]

Reading this and other threads, I am stunned by the amount of people here who cannot see the wood from the trees.

 

Threads about how great the Rakghoul Event is, talk dangling a carrot in front of some people!

 

As with, I'm going to say 'most people', when 1.2 hit, we were disappointed. Promised so much and given so little. And then it's like BW had the Rakghoul event up their sleeve, 'Everyone is mad, quick do the event!', and then some people are all 'Great, this is cool again!'. It's beyond me to see how people can get sucked in.

 

Overall this game is a terrible MMO, many bugs, not enough content etc etc. We all have at least one gripe, even you defenders. And BW seem to treat most of us like the 'paying' fools we are. I've seen so many videos saying how they are really 'listening' to us, but I think they are hearing, but not listen. One is followed up by action, the other, isn't.

 

I am a 50/50 split to how this game will do. So many people have un-subbed with 1.2, but then, there are so many people that think things are so great, they will keep paying, so the game might carry on. Personally, I hope it fails, so BW can just go back to making good games again (Mass Effect 3 not included) and stop 'trying' to make an MMO that's just not working very well.

[Arasys]

You know from the day 1, people have been constantly complaining and even posting on general discussion when they decide to unsubscribe.. You see.. a lot of people DO NOT CARE if you are unsubscribing.

 

I am not a fan boy or anything, in fact I am irritated with a bug in the game, but some people love bashing this game and trying to harm the game's image. I can see you quit wow, or some other mmorpg but again WE DON'T CARE. please get a life, and if you don't like the game stop trolling the forums or trying to make the game look bad.

 

Yes it has bugs.

 

Yes it may be boring ( for you ).

 

Yes it may not have "enough" end game content ( game launched a few months ago..)

 

Believe me or not but I've even seen someone saying " omg there's too much content with one patch this sux!"

 

all I can say is, I like this game, and I enjoy playing it. If you like Blizzard or wow or whatever, good for you. But this is SWTOR ^_^

[MikelGoff]

Reading this and other threads, I am stunned by the amount of people here who cannot see the wood from the trees.

 

Threads about how great the Rakghoul Event is, talk dangling a carrot in front of some people!

 

As with, I'm going to say 'most people', when 1.2 hit, we were disappointed. Promised so much and given so little. And then it's like BW had the Rakghoul event up their sleeve, 'Everyone is mad, quick do the event!', and then some people are all 'Great, this is cool again!'. It's beyond me to see how people can get sucked in.

 

Overall this game is a terrible MMO, many bugs, not enough content etc etc. We all have at least one gripe, even you defenders. And BW seem to treat most of us like the 'paying' fools we are. I've seen so many videos saying how they are really 'listening' to us, but I think they are hearing, but not listen. One is followed up by action, the other, isn't.

 

I am a 50/50 split to how this game will do. So many people have un-subbed with 1.2, but then, there are so many people that think things are so great, they will keep paying, so the game might carry on. Personally, I hope it fails, so BW can just go back to making good games again (Mass Effect 3 not included) and stop 'trying' to make an MMO that's just not working very well.

 

I agree, it'd be good if this tanked. It isn't like there are over 1.7 million people enjoying the game or anything.

 

Oh wait, you have your finger to the pulse of at least 51% of all people playing this game.

 

Why don't you just leave if you aren't having fun and let those of us who like the game... enjoy it?

[PlacidDragon]

How many stories have we heard (and most of us probably experienced first hand) about guilds 100+ strong dying out because people are leaving the game ?

 

That numbers are in decline is not even up for discussion, they are. Thats simply fact. How much they are declining on the other hand, is anyones guess. The only ones with the actual numbers on that is Bioware.

 

Judging from a fairly simple (but time consuming) "count" im doing on the English EU PvE servers, patch 1.2 saw a 20+ percent increase in the amount of players, we'll see how that holds up after the weekend

[Catch_TwentyTwo]

I do agree TERA wont put a huge dent. There will be some people leaving but not in droves.

 

GW2 and D3 are the big ones, many people i know are waiting for one of those or both of those games. I expect a HUGE decrease in server pop come may 15 and June 26 (rumored GW2 release)

HUGE you say? Wow, you must know a LOT of people...

[MikelGoff]

How many stories have we heard (and most of us probably experienced first hand) about guilds 100+ strong dying out because people are leaving the game ?

 

That numbers are in decline is not even up for discussion, they are. Thats simply fact. How much they are declining on the other hand, is anyones guess. The only ones with the actual numbers on that is Bioware.

 

Judging from a fairly simple (but time consuming) "count" im doing on the English EU PvE servers, patch 1.2 saw a 20+ percent increase in the amount of players, we'll see how that holds up after the weekend

 

People keep acting like those raiding guilds MEAN something. They don't. Raiders are the minority of this game, just like they are the minority of most games.

[PlacidDragon]

People keep acting like those raiding guilds MEAN something. They don't. Raiders are the minority of this game, just like they are the minority of most games.

Who are talking about raiding guilds ? Many of them were social guilds (i was in one myself).. i dont recall the exact number of members, but it was at least 100 i believe.. i left when there was like 3 people still logging on. I set foot in exactly 1 instance while being a member...

[Tristal]

I'm not gonna read through all 57 pages of this thread, I would think that yes there has been a decrease in subs but without numbers that means nothing.

 

Secondly if SWTOR is on a decline I hope that only includes the game and not the Star Wars franchise because I for one love it and if investors see this game "flop" they may be harder to convince to invest in something Star Wars, perhaps another Star Wars game or w/e, I can't imagine they'd be that short-sighted but w/e.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Tristal

[Derbefrier]

I do agree TERA wont put a huge dent. There will be some people leaving but not in droves.

 

GW2 and D3 are the big ones, many people i know are waiting for one of those or both of those games. I expect a HUGE decrease in server pop come may 15 and June 26 (rumored GW2 release)

 

 

I just cancelled with the stated reason as leaving for D3. I liked SWTOR and all and considered keeping my sub up while i was playing diablo 3 but after 1.2 and seeing some of the new raid content i decided i had enough and was done. these were just the straw that broke the camels back i tried looking past all the bugs and all the other problems that have been beat to death on the forums and tried to remain optimistic but **** it the leveling in this game was great but the rest of stinks and thats why i quit.

[kidatwood]

Who are talking about raiding guilds ? Many of them were social guilds (i was in one myself).. i dont recall the exact number of members, but it was at least 100 i believe.. i left when there was like 3 people still logging on. I set foot in exactly 1 instance while being a member...

 

Guild come and go shrug. Good example of what I'm talking about. I group with this guy and he asked if I'm intrested in joining his guild. I say to him that I'm casual player and he says to me that's ok. Two days later I have someone in the guild ask me what my valor rank was it was around 3 or 4 not that I'm a big pvper. So he informs me I need to get my valor rank up or be discipline. I instantly /guildquit. Umm I joined under the assumption this was casual. So I wasn't going to let some total stranger dictate my play style. Or time.

[terencechan]

EA/BW never did anything to design the game to help players play with other people given the NECESSITY to do group content to gear up. It was all left to players to figure that out.

 

And they did. Playing group content is proving to be a pain in the arse for 99% of all players with the way the game is functionally able. So they leave, because XBox gives them the same or greater level of gratification without all that precious and frustrating wasted time trying begging to get people together.

 

I hope SWTOR learns from the server logs. And fast.

[faymar]

I'm just going to leave this here......

 

"One of the problems we’re running into right now is kind of a classic MMO problem, which is that our overall population of players has not changed, but our peak concurrent users has changed," Erickson told NowGamer following last week's 1.2 Legacy update. "

Linky

 

looks to me like the game doesn't need saving after all.

[lordgracy]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04/09/the-daily-grind-when-do-you-consider-a-game-to-be-dying/

 

Everybodies game is dying according to the internet

 

According to the fleet numbers its dying on my server. Also how fast the WZ's pop. Wake up.

[faymar]

According to the fleet numbers its dying on my server. Also how fast the WZ's pop. Wake up.

 

And as it has been said a hundred million times the fleet numbers aren't accurate; we can have sixty of our guild members in fleet on my server and it says there are five.

[amantheil]

And as it has been said a hundred million times the fleet numbers aren't accurate; we can have sixty of our guild members in fleet on my server and it says there are five.

 

And to go a bit further, as has also been said a hundred million times, "number of people in fleet" isn't an accurate representation of number of people online. You know, because most people log in to do missions, warzones, dailies, flashpoints, ops, etc. and not just sit around fleet all night.

 

You have 100 people in fleet. 16 of them go off and do an op. 8 of them go off and do warzones. 1 guy finishes his stuff at the GTN and hops over to a low-level character who is not in fleet. "OMG FLEET POPULATION JUST DROPPED BY 25% THE GAME IS DYING".

[Kourage]

You read it on the internet.

It must be true.

[miranwe]

here is what it is in my world. i unsub and am mad i stuck with it as long as i did. the developers do not care about the player, this based on my discussion with combat designers at PAX East and is completly a personal opinion and should not be taken beyond that.

BW is trying to save a sinking ship which they should since its there ship and without it they are out a lot of money. the realm of MMO gaming is changed if not gone from what it once was. yes WoW did it right, and made bank off it. there were many players though who left after each expansion saying that its just not the same. we have reached a point in gaming that everyone is a gamer. its not just us pencil paper d&d nerds or old nes atari players gaming now and because of this the developers must try to appeal to more interests. this spreads games thin in a design stand point and is making it hard to hold the attraction for any specific group. the biggest issue of this I feel is the hardcore and the casual player demands. when WoW released it took a long time for world firsts, but now its world first the same day as release. this puts pressure on the developer because they just worked hard to put out content and already a group has sacrificed real life to beat it. mean while the casual player is upset that the end game is to hard because they do not get to invest the time the hardcore players do but wants to experience the entire game and not just instances and what not. we as a community are to demanding of the developers and the games we play to truly be satisfied. star wars has had substantial drops in subs if everyone who says they have dropped did, but its not dead to those who still play. there is still a chance to turn the game around, but personally i do not want to wait for it to happen. its more of a financial issue for me, i like to play mmos but currently with my server status, i have real life that needs funded so to suspend the sub works out for me.

[AHChrist]

I spend my time watching GW2 videos, then I log on these forums and laugh.

 

What an UN-creative game this SWTOR is

[Crimson_Spider]

I spend my time watching GW2 videos, then I log on these forums and laugh.

 

What an UN-creative game this SWTOR is

 

Oh! don't worry... let's give GW2 a couple of months, it'll be full of this posts.

 

And the game will be "dead" with "no one playing", "all the customer base pissed", "so many missed opportunities", "we were lied to", "too many glitches", "my computer doesn't run it" and "zero communication from the devs" in 2 weeks flat...

 

3 weeks before "everyone" has blown through the entire content with at least 2 alts and the game is stale.... and let's not forget the ever entertaining "wait until (insert game here) comes out, that one will teach you!"..

Edited April 19, 2012 by Crimson_Spider
wall of text

[realID]

I've canceled my subscription, but that means I still have 3, (now four months with the free month) for them to convince me to reactivate it.

 

I think it's a good game. I've enjoyed my time with it. That being said, I believe it can be a great game and it's not living up to that potential due to poor choices by Bioware. There's so much about the game that is shocking... It took us a patch to get a /roll... We still don't have /readycheck. Travel to a planet usually still involves going through an annoying space station, the list goes on. Is a lot of the stuff on my list personal issues? Of course. It should be, it's my list for my subscription.

 

I beleive in Bioware... at least somewhat. Not as strongly as I use to after the horrible things they've done with titles recently (See all of DA 2 and the ME 3 ending) I am fairly certain they can make this game into a great game, and when they do, I'll come back. Until then, I'm more than willing to let my subscription expire.

[GreySix]

Oh! don't worry... let's give GW2 a couple of months, it'll be full of this posts.

 

And the game will be "dead" with "no one playing", "all the customer base pissed", "so many missed opportunities", "we were lied to", "too many glitches", "my computer doesn't run it" and "zero communication from the devs" in 2 weeks flat...

 

3 weeks before "everyone" has blown through the entire content with at least 2 alts and the game is stale.... and let's not forget the ever entertaining "wait until (insert game here) comes out, that one will teach you!"..

 

Indeed. Plus, does GW2 have anything to do with Star Wars? If the answer is no, then you can take that game and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[Avacyn]

I run a game store in Australia, I am a far more reliable source than any magazine because I am there 40 hours a week dealing with people and hearing what they want. This game, because of it's later release down here, was one of the most wanted games. Daily, there are at least 3 or 4 people who still ask about it, and over a week we convert at least 3 or 4 people from Wow to this game. When I log into my US server there are 10 people on the fleet, more to do with time difference than anything else, when I log into the Asia/Pacific server that I am soon to be transferring my main to, at least 150 to 200 people (albeit 70 of them standing in a circle!)

 

I don't think this game is dying, like any MMO I have ever played it has it's critics, and the faceless nature of the internet allows people to rant and rave and cry about the smallest thing. There is a guy here complaining about no new end game content, even though some was just added?

 

Another interesting fact for all the BF3 lovers out there. Midnight release for that game last year in my store, and most stores in my general area, was the biggest let down. About 10 people saw it worthy of a midnight pickup, when you compare that to the COD launch where 250-300 people flooded in, I think that is where the money is being lost, on BF3. Too many shooters in the world.

 

Enjoy this game, if we support it then it can only grow, and it will reward those who stuck with it, if we continually talk it down and cancel subscriptions over very minor things, then it will die, and we will all be running around in 'Pandoria" like fools.