Kurnea Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The worst part is the BW's stance on this is that they don't want them. So it's not even part of the design. Other MMO's design thier games with the intent on allowing this stuff and so they build in features that support it. Even if they do fold and allow us to mod or use macros... it will be implemented as an after thought... My guess is that it will only be a limited at best Uh, they said at Comic Con that they were already working on an addon api for post launch: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFH-Canuck Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 the UI is fine - i am sure improvements and flexibility will come in the future you can't play any new game and compare it to other games you played - you have to set the right level of expectations to really experience what any new game has to offer - otherwise you will end-up trying to compare apples-to-apples (where there is no such comparison), whine alot and jumping around games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewpaco Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 The worst part is the BW's stance on this is that they don't want them. So it's not even part of the design. Other MMO's design thier games with the intent on allowing this stuff and so they build in features that support it. Even if they do fold and allow us to mod or use macros... it will be implemented as an after thought... My guess is that it will only be a limited at best And THANK GOD a major MMO had the nut sack to reverse a BAD TREND. A previous poster said that they wouldn't mind macro's as long as they weren't stringing 2 combat abilities together. I think that is where I draw the line also. /assist <player> Fine. That isn't game breaking. Combining reactionary combat skills that have no GCD /#supress macro failures /cast <reactive ability> /cast <specific attack> Tied to every main attack is BS. Watch the game. Pay attention to what is going on. Notice when your reactive ability is available. It is called a reactive ability, because you are supposed to react. You only get to use it when certain conditions are met . i.e. - after you dodge. Macro'ing an ability like that removes the very process that the skill is intended for, and eliminates the need for you to do what the developer intended. Which is react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarberg Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Spoken like a true eliteist A-hole. Spoken like someone who's mad because he's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jederix Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Spoken like someone who's mad because he's bad. You know that saying, "Better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." I propose a new one: "Better to be thought a fool, than to type an ignorant, overused, Internet meme and remove all doubt." Seems to work better in this day an age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewpaco Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) And while we are on this topic. Does anyone remember why GCD's ever had to be introduced into MMO's? You guessed it. Macros. To eliminate people tying 7 skills into one key stroke that took 1 second. Nobody likes GCD's of 1 second on everything. But it is a necessary evil because of macros. Most people posting probably have never played a game when there was no GCD - and no macros. Was a much better gaming experience, that is for sure. Edited December 20, 2011 by Chewpaco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaideBralor Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 My wife was complaining about the UI for over 6 months in beta. The UI is garbage, nobody in my family will touch this game. My son already spent the prepaid credit card that preordered this game on some other game, Origin will have fun collecting. You wont play the game because of the UI? Wow, you know they plan to add customization UI right? Will you be coming back after that or will you find some other small thing then quit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 you can't play any new game and compare it to other games you played - you have to set the right level of expectations to really experience what any new game has to offer - otherwise you will end-up trying to compare apples-to-apples (where there is no such comparison), whine alot and jumping around games. Wrong. I can, and I will. Because you know what? I have expectations, based on what I have enjoyed before, and if something does not measure up, whether it be a video game, a movie, a tv show, a hamburger, or an automobile, I will pick a choice that does meet my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) 3rd party add ons are a horrible idea. Edited December 21, 2011 by Kunitsukami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 And while we are on this topic. Does anyone remember why GCD's ever had to be introduced into MMO's? You guessed it. Macros. To eliminate people tying 7 skills into one key stroke that took 1 second. Nobody likes GCD's of 1 second on everything. But it is a necessary evil because of macros. Most people posting probably have never played a game when there was no GCD - and no macros. Was a much better gaming experience, that is for sure. Except for one important detail you're forgetting. The problem is outside any game, since hardware/software that can emulate keystrokes is widely available and trivial to implement. Just take one of those turbo buttons on a console, which in some games, would shoot a continual line of death, because the device (which was occasionally an official product) would send keystrokes as fast as the hardware would support, which was not at all what the developers might expect. Now you might say a console maker could control the device, but you know what? That's not going to apply very well to computers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakkar Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I sorely underestimated just how poor the UI would turn out. It is so uncustomizable it isn't funny. Health bars, buffs, debuffs, and the power bar are all WAY too small. You can't move or resize anything, I HATE having the chat box up the top. Not having a damage meter or even a freaking combat log is ridiculous. Why shouldn't we even know how much damage we're doing? I want to know what the best rotation is for my character and I have absolutely no way of working that out. Macros are a staple in every MMO, how can you just not have them? There's a nice focus target but it's practically useless without focus macros. These should be top priority for the next patch. If you were a real Macro user, you would already own a g13 gameboard. That said, alot of the time you cannot use macros, especially in pvp. Why depend on the developer to spend resources impleenting macros when there is a product already available which makes them viable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theronlas Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 ... Sigh. All caps time. NOBODY WANTS COMPLETE GAME AUTOMATION. Most of us just want to be able to do this: /cast <some heal> @ <target of my current target> or this: /cast <some heal> @ <player under my mouse cursor> That's it. That's what this has mostly boiled down to when it comes to healers anyhow. We don't want some stupid casting sequence or auto-dispels or anything else like that. Just a bloody quality-of-life upgrade for our miserable healing experience of having to use the default raid frames. Bloody lunatics the lot of you. And you wonder why you spend an hour looking for a healer to fill that last slot. This is fine, except if you chain a lot of them together you have an automated rotation, or the ability to put skills that dont respect the GCD before every skill you use. I do not like this kind of behaviour. As to needing macros to heal, I spend a lot of time healing raids in LOTRO, there are no macros AT ALL, no mouseover healing, nothing. You select the person that needs healing (mouse or hotkey, I use mouse) and heal them, works just fine. I do agree however that the UI NEEDS to be able to be re-arranged and re-sized. I do not need a 1cmX1cm box on my screen for each skill and i really want to have 3 skill bars down the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrachara Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Agreed. We need add ons, or at the very least, the most basic UI modification. I mean how hard can it be to allow every UI element to be moved around, really? The UI also needs to be better optimised as right now it's a terrible resource hog. You might not notice it as we're generally not using it during combat, but go ahead and open/close an interface pane repeatedly. The FPS sinks into the ground and for simple elements like that, there's no way that should be happening. As for macros, also agreed. It's simple math, this game has more abilities than WoW does. A lot more abilities. I have as many abilities atm on level 21 as I did in WoW on a level 80. I like being able to sort my abilities into 2 bars and that's so not possible with TOR, it's not even funny. I'm just looking for some basic functionality to be able to use certain abilities together and far more importantly, simply have several abilities within the same bar slot. Also, I'm not sure what the deal is with the top row (of the bottom centre two) being the primary one. Change it or make it optional to use either as primary, yeah, changing the keybinds is easy, but not being able to switch our primary bar (something that'll come in handy when you're a frequent respeccer) will suck the more people start reaching higher levels. Don't get me wrong, the game is great. Fantastic. But the UI is poor at best, we need some work done on it. Considering it's a very simple element to work with and something most gamers like to have customized to their own taste, getting add on support in ASAP is the most logical solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lythknight Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Moved from another forum section: BioWare, If addon support is not a top priority at the moment, please at least develop an in-game DPS and healing meters as soon as possible. When most guilds start raiding in January, this information will be very important in deciding who is doing their job and who is slacking. The DPS/Healing meters can be very basic and just include the persons overall damage or healing per second and no further breakdown and display of the information is needed at this time. Considering it should take one of your developers about 2 hours to simply create the box, make the user clients display the damage done to the mob by what player and in what amount of time, this is a fairly small request and it will make a very big game impact to raiders. To the forum users: even though there is no combat log, the clients are still receiving updates as to what character is using what abilities and how much damage is being done, its just a matter of dividing that number by time in combat and displaying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wrong. I can, and I will. Because you know what? I have expectations, based on what I have enjoyed before, and if something does not measure up, whether it be a video game, a movie, a tv show, a hamburger, or an automobile, I will pick a choice that does meet my needs. If you want a second wow, why dont you keep playing wow? I dont understand people like you, if you like Hamburgers do you then also demand that chicken wings are made like them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwcultist Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 quite honestly if they aren't going to have addons that show heal meters or dps meters imma probably not going to raid. Too many times people slow down raiders because dont know how to play. I mean no one should be doing less 1k dps from same class and same sort of gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandax Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 For me the game most certainly do not need neither mods nor macros. In fact I find them more ruining games than helping them. It becomes an arms race about who can install and make the most mods and macros to help them play and I dislike that inherently. Customizable UI, yes - but no macros and no mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 quite honestly if they aren't going to have addons that show heal meters or dps meters imma probably not going to raid. Too many times people slow down raiders because dont know how to play. I mean no one should be doing less 1k dps from same class and same sort of gear. A dps or healing meter does not show skill. I know you were manipulated by wow, but please understand fact´s. You are not a good player if you cross heal in a raid because you must top the healing meter, but then are oom, force etc. when you are really needed. You are not a good player if you stand in fire, take a horrible amount of damage but also need more healing than the tank or any other player in the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwcultist Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 if no macro/mods you might as well say no keybinds and make this a clicker only game. I agree some addon's not needed but some are very needed, Ie dps meters/heal meters for raiding its a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merex Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have to agree. The UI is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwcultist Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 all of those are in dmg meters if you stand in fire it tells you how much dmg you took and also where from. Also it calculates in over healing.... Ive played over 10 mmo's so wow is not only thing making me say this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 if no macro/mods you might as well say no keybinds and make this a clicker only game. I agree some addon's not needed but some are very needed, Ie dps meters/heal meters for raiding its a must. Its not. My guild did raid competetive in SWP top 20, without such tools. Bad players just want a reason for flames, usually those with less healing or dps then get kicked out, flamed etc. while they didnt do anything wrong, but those who started the flames did as they only care about numbers and then stand in fire, pull aggro or dont intercept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yes, we need all these things.... Most of us are doing fine without them but obviously some people struggle with the game as it is ... give them what they need to help them play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwcultist Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Players who want these tools are raid leaders, they want to weed out bads and recruit good players for raiding. If you don't want these tools then don't use them simple as that. Others want these tools, and swtor should allow addons which they have been saying they will, just not at launch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) all of those are in dmg meters if you stand in fire it tells you how much dmg you took and also where from. Also it calculates in over healing.... Ive played over 10 mmo's so wow is not only thing making me say this Do you really think a bad player that relies on a meter does watch his mistakes? They dont, they just know 1 thing "most dps, most healing". Go play a random dungeon at wow, random raid and you will see what I mean. Ofc a top 20 guild would understand how to read a meter correctly, but why ruin the game for 99% of the players then just because 1 % is competetive? Not a good trade in my opinion. But if BW manages it, that you can only track stats if the other guy has the meter too then I am fine with it. In that way you can watch your own healing, dps etc. But aslong random people can flame others because of such meters I give my veto. Wow was destroyed by it, pretty much every MMO that I did play was - there must be another way. they want to weed out bads Such comments are so low... what has wow done to players. Things like "bads", "noobs" etc. all the flaming, I dont get it. Does nobody play an MMO for fun anymore? Edited December 21, 2011 by RachelAnne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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