Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Customisation is key but I hope to god it doesn't allow dps meters so whiny idiots can cry in every group. I'm also hoping in the endgame there is No "optimal rotation" and that it's just a priority list with different options. The lead designer confirmed DPS meters specifically, saying they're a great tool for players to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 It is NOT "ESSENTIAL", that's massively overdramatic. It's a PREFERENCE of yours and maybe quite a few others but it is not essential. I started off in other mom's as a clicker, then moved on to being a completely key bound player... the rub is that I did exactly the same amount of DPS but just found it a different experience that I preferred over time. Not essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 The lead designer confirmed DPS meters specifically, saying they're a great tool for players to have. Oh great, lets make the story and community driven MMO a meterfest in which all the terrible players who play their characters lazily constantly moan whilst repeating "I play that character as my main and i'm in the best PvE guild on the server and do the most DPS/healing/aggro and you're doing terrible dps/healing/aggro with it newbzmon!". It doesn't help at all, you can still complete endgame content very easily with almost any group without the help of DPS meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOONERFREAK Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Such whiners, I've gone 5 years in wow without macros and have raided just fine. As for mods that is just something extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Oh great, lets make the story and community driven MMO a meterfest in which all the terrible players who play their characters lazily constantly moan whilst repeating "I play that character as my main and i'm in the best PvE guild on the server and do the most DPS/healing/aggro and you're doing terrible dps/healing/aggro with it newbzmon!". Untrue. If you have no real feedback, you can't min-max your character to the utmost potential. If the devs know you can't streamline your character and play, then they can't make uber-hard, challenging endgame content that requires you to be the best to beat it. Thus, a lack of metering makes for a dumbed-down, easy-mode game, which SWTOR will not be. It doesn't help at all, you can still complete endgame content very easily with almost any group without the help of DPS meters That must be why, months after it was released, fewer than 5% of players have beaten Ragnaros on heroic. Or... maybe you just don't know what you're talking about? Edited December 17, 2011 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeythearm Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 A race car has all sorts of electronics in them that monitor all sorts of things, kind of like what an addon can do for you in a game. all the things monitoring the inside of a racecar keep it from exploding. Addons and macros are not a necessity. The game wont explode without them. That was a TERRIBLE metaphor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Untrue. If you have no real feedback, you can't min-max your character to the utmost potential. If the devs know you can't streamline your character and play, then they can't make uber-hard, challenging endgame content that requires you to be the best to beat it. Thus, a lack of metering makes for a dumbed-down, easy-mode game, which SWTOR will not be. Then let the developers have a damage meter system to log the overall output of the average, low skill, and high skill raid groups and flashpoint groups. There is absolutely no point in having it for the gamers themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 all the things monitoring the inside of a racecar keep it from exploding. Addons and macros are not a necessity. The game wont explode without them. That was a TERRIBLE metaphor Show me a race car that explodes when the tires are low. Yet there's a meter for that because it increases optimization. His analogy was good. It's your understanding that's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Then let the developers have a damage meter system to log the overall output of the average, low skill, and high skill raid groups and flashpoint groups. There is absolutely no point in having it for the gamers themselves. I just told you what the point was. It's feedback to optimize your character and your raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeythearm Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I sense many clickers in this thread... Im not a clicker. But I sure as hell dont need macros to play a game competitively. And Im not saying macro's are cheat, and Im not saying macro's are useless. What I am saying, is if you cannot play WITHOUT macros, you are CRAP. If youre a great player and you use macro's to give you an edge, whatever. But If you cannot play on a competitive level (raiding and endgame PvP) without the use of an aid, you are a bad player. There is NO arguing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeythearm Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Show me a race car that explodes when the tires are low. Yet there's a meter for that because it increases optimization. His analogy was good. It's your understanding that's bad. Never heard of a blowout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Never heard of a blowout? That doesn't make a car explode. I can play silly semantic games too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraonaiMimnov Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 No. Play the game like a normal person would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I just told you what the point was. It's feedback to optimize your character and your raid. Which you can do in a much more fun way by actually playing the flashpoint or raid with a group and just trying and retrying different tactics with different group set ups and outfits until you hit on what works. And in the instance of wow you don't have a clue obviously, it may be that they've made the game perfectly for how they themselves are monitoring what groups are doing and how well they're doing it. Ragnaros heroic has been beaten by a lot more than 5% of people in wow by the way now. Especially since all the nerfs with the new content coming out. Meters the players are using didn't change how they made game content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Which you can do in a much more fun way by actually playing the flashpoint or raid with a group and just trying and retrying different tactics with different group set ups and outfits until you hit on what works. You're conflating raid tactics with DPS/healing optimization. And in the instance of wow you don't have a clue obviously, it may be that they've made the game perfectly for how they themselves are monitoring what groups are doing and how well they're doing it. Ragnaros heroic has been beaten by a lot more than 5% of people in wow by the way now. Especially since all the nerfs with the new content coming out. There's a website that monitors raid progress. 3.7% of WoW players have currently beaten Ragnaros on heroic difficulty. And now that there's a new raid tier out, those numbers will carry over to the new bosses. WoW raiding is not now, nor has it ever been "easy mode". And it's that way because the developers could design it that way. It'll be that way in SWTOR, and metering is an essential tool for that development. The devs have flat-out stated their support of metering tools for players, and that they're coming. So you just better get used to the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Segundus Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Its funny because bad players actually think this. What's funnier is that bad players actually think that bad players actually think this. So that makes you all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtsdad Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Untrue. If you have no real feedback, you can't min-max your character to the utmost potential. If the devs know you can't streamline your character and play, then they can't make uber-hard, challenging endgame content that requires you to be the best to beat it. Thus, a lack of metering makes for a dumbed-down, easy-mode game, which SWTOR will not be. That must be why, months after it was released, fewer than 5% of players have beaten Ragnaros on heroic. Or... maybe you just don't know what you're talking about? Its sounds like a flaw in the sad game you are referring to which is equally sad because they built their system around the number crunchers who can't think their way out of a paper bag unless they have access to some tyoe of mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinroku Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 You can move your chat box.. didnt ya know? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Its sounds like a flaw in the sad game you are referring to which is equally sad because they built their system around the number crunchers who can't think their way out of a paper bag unless they have access to some tyoe of mod. It's not a flaw. It's a beautiful system. The hard-core players have the heroic mode. The normal players have the normal mode. The casuals have the LFR mode made for PUGs. Everyone gets to see all the content at a level that challenges them, and get rewarded according to the level of difficulty. SWTOR has already adopted this system. Operations and high level flashpoints have difficult modes just like WoW, because it's a GOOD system. Edited December 17, 2011 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klarick Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 No thanks to WoW-Like mods and the horribly bad gaming-attitude that comes with it. Other games survive just fine without the "E-Peen" meters of WoW. "We dont need it here, this isn't the game you are looking for Mr. Recount..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtsdad Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 You're conflating raid tactics with DPS/healing optimization. There's a website that monitors raid progress. 3.7% of WoW players have currently beaten Ragnaros on heroic difficulty. And now that there's a new raid tier out, those numbers will carry over to the new bosses. WoW raiding is not now, nor has it ever been "easy mode". And it's that way because the developers could design it that way. It'll be that way in SWTOR, and metering is an essential tool for that development. The devs have flat-out stated their support of metering tools for players, and that they're coming. So you just better get used to the idea. Yes, of course learning which classes to bring to a raid and when to move or which attacks to use is pretty close to rocket science. The hardest part about a raid is the "cat herding". Any company can make a raid that only 10% 5% or even 0% can accomplish. Again its not rocket science and the raiders are not on the cutting edge of anything. Enjoy your crutch and your theoretical awesomeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Yes, of course learning which classes to bring to a raid and when to move or which attacks to use is pretty close to rocket science. The hardest part about a raid is the "cat herding". Any company can make a raid that only 10% 5% or even 0% can accomplish. Again its not rocket science and the raiders are not on the cutting edge of anything. Enjoy your crutch and your theoretical awesomeness. Honestly, I hear this a lot... Ranter: "Raiding is easy and anyone can do it!" Me: "Can you beat the hardest stuff in the game? Ranter: "No, but it's not my fault because <insert silliness here>". Always the same sad excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 You're conflating raid tactics with DPS/healing optimization. There's a website that monitors raid progress. 3.7% of WoW players have currently beaten Ragnaros on heroic difficulty. And now that there's a new raid tier out, those numbers will carry over to the new bosses. WoW raiding is not now, nor has it ever been "easy mode". And it's that way because the developers could design it that way. It'll be that way in SWTOR, and metering is an essential tool for that development. The devs have flat-out stated their support of metering tools for players, and that they're coming. So you just better get used to the idea. link. Because the only way I could see them logging that is if they are either logging what guilds are saying they're doing or they have access to in game information it would be nigh impossible for them to have access to. Because I beat raggy heroic with two separate pugs 6 weeks ago, and they didn't have guild logs showing it. WoW went from being an immersive environment with good player interaction and crowded environments to people who think like you sitting in major cities and thinking their DPS meters made the game better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueRanger Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 The UI definitely needs some improving. The games does not need macros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunitsukami Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Honestly, I hear this a lot... Ranter: "Raiding is easy and anyone can do it!" Me: "Can you beat the hardest stuff in the game? Ranter: "No, but it's not my fault because <insert silliness here>". Always the same sad excuses. That's not what is being said. Strawmanning doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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