Ravage Hyperbole

[Luceus]

Ravage has definitely been boosted a bit, there is no doubt about that, but I'm wondering if those who are saying the ability will be nerfed are people who don't really play the Marauder class.

 

The ability was boosted enough to be in a rotation, yet it still has it's flaws that many other classes don't have. You can't just run away from lightning or TK Throw. You can't run away from the other classes with guns who lay into you. (I know carnage roots a person, but not everyone uses that spec)

 

In pvp, people move around a lot, and it's very rare to get a full round of ravage in on someone.

 

I'm not complaining about the ability at all. I think it's fine the way it is, and if it's ever nerfed I think the loud minority will 'win'. We're a 100% dps class, so our abilities should do a bit more damage than the other classes whining about it. We give up heals, mezzes, stuns, knockbacks, etc in order to do as much damage as possible, yet people are whining that we're now doing the damage we should be doing. It's insane.

 

Hopefully BW doesn't listen to these people. The marauder class still isn't perfect, but 1.2 was a good step in making it what it should be, 100% dps.

[LosMartonos]

I agree. Without your 99% damage reduction buff, and vanish ( I don't know the name, sorry) marauder/sentinel is really squishy.

 

The most complained spec can be countered by learning how to dispell and play your own class. I just simply CAN'T believe it that all the marauders/sentinels out there are so good, that they will kill you even if you know how to play the class, the area, and how to dispel.

 

Plus if they want to be useful in Hutball, they are forced to give up DPS-ing, the thing they are made to do.

 

 

90% of the time people on forums are unable to manage their anger and see clearly, they fail to understand the big picture and they'd rather create a new post full of tears than read a few tips, watch one or two gameplay videos and try to improve their playstyle. Of course they are all children, we can't blame them, we all were children once. With the difference that not everyone of us had such big mouth and such arrogance to believe our opinions worth just as much as everyone else's.

[Yescek]

I agree. Without your 99% damage reduction buff, and vanish ( I don't know the name, sorry) marauder/sentinel is really squishy.

 

The most complained spec can be countered by learning how to dispell and play your own class. I just simply CAN'T believe it that all the marauders/sentinels out there are so good, that they will kill you even if you know how to play the class, the area, and how to dispel.

 

Plus if they want to be useful in Hutball, they are forced to give up DPS-ing, the thing they are made to do.

 

 

90% of the time people on forums are unable to manage their anger and see clearly, they fail to understand the big picture and they'd rather create a new post full of tears than read a few tips, watch one or two gameplay videos and try to improve their playstyle. Of course they are all children, we can't blame them, we all were children once. With the difference that not everyone of us had such big mouth and such arrogance to believe our opinions worth just as much as everyone else's.

 

The name is Force Camo. Not trying to be an arrogant *****, just throwing that out there.

 

To the rest of your post ---->

[Nmaharg]

[17:43:30.237] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[17:43:30.237] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Unshakable {1261367470326274}] ()
[17:43:30.238] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Immobilized {1261367470326270}] ()
[17:43:30.641] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1599 energy {836045448940874} (403 absorbed {836045448945511})) <1599>
[17:43:30.641] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (604* energy {836045448940874}) <604>
[17:43:31.037] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1669 energy {836045448940874}) <1669>
[17:43:31.038] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -parry {836045448945503}) <1>
[17:43:31.313] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Gore {1261122657189888}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (450* energy {836045448940874} (450 absorbed {836045448945511})) <450>
[17:43:32.442] [@Etang] [@Etang] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: rage point {836045448938497}] (1)
[17:43:32.443] [@Etang] [@Etang] [blood Frenzy {1261114067255296}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Blood Frenzy {1261114067255296}] ()
[17:43:33.171] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Massacre {1259670958243840}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Massacre {1259670958243840}] ()
[17:43:33.355] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (5645* energy {836045448940874}) <5645>
[17:43:33.360] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Immobilized {1261367470326270}] ()

 

Thats a 9k ravage right there, pretty damn OP imo. Last hit for 5.6k is crazy.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Nmaharg

[Ruction]

I don't see it getting nerfed. It's hitting harder for sure, but the only way to land a full Ravage on someone is if someone is rooting them or if they're being CCd (Carnage not included in that obviously). That's like nerfing the fire in raids, just stop and move.

[Luceus]

Thats a 9k ravage right there, pretty damn OP imo. Last hit for 5.6k is crazy.

 

I am still not seeing the OP factor. What was the gear the person is wearing? Is 9k a common thing?

 

I see you're down the Carnage line, so you had him rooted, but again, not everyone goes down that line (although the root is kind of tempting now).

 

However, 27 second cooldown, that can't be ignored. My healer sorc has a 6 second cooldown in his lightning+snare, and my lvl 45 BH tank has a 15 second cooldown on his 1,600 damage ranged ability that can't simply be run off. (3,200 over 30 seconds)

 

I don't think 4,900+ for an ability that can easily be disrupted by a KB or simply running away (non carnage) is that bad for a 100% dps class. Is it high for a Jugg? Yea, probably, but definitely not Marauder.

 

Small sample sizes aren't enough to convince me there is something wrong with this ability. If you're doing 9k often, well, maybe you're just lucky and facing a lot of terribly geared people?

[Nmaharg]

I am still not seeing the OP factor. What was the gear the person is wearing? Is 9k a common thing?

 

I see you're down the Carnage line, so you had him rooted, but again, not everyone goes down that line (although the root is kind of tempting now).

 

However, 27 second cooldown, that can't be ignored. My healer sorc has a 6 second cooldown in his lightning+snare, and my lvl 45 BH tank has a 15 second cooldown on his 1,600 damage ranged ability that can't simply be run off. (3,200 over 30 seconds)

 

I don't think 4,900+ for an ability that can easily be disrupted by a KB or simply running away (non carnage) is that bad for a 100% dps class. Is it high for a Jugg? Yea, probably, but definitely not Marauder.

 

Small sample sizes aren't enough to convince me there is something wrong with this ability. If you're doing 9k often, well, maybe you're just lucky and facing a lot of terribly geared people?

 

Even against people in equal gear I'm hitting for 7k regularly. The global 15% increase in dmg wasn't needed at all. Making it uninterrupted also wasn't needed. Makes ravage very hard to counter now.

[Irishpierre]

Every class (iirc) has a snare break, if the Ravage does snare. Sometimes I use it and they get away anyway. When I do land one, it hits, and it hits -very- hard. People that aren't paying attention and stand there and take it, deserve to take it. Not much to it. Plenty of ways to avoid our damage but people will complain about anything. Just the way people, especially in MMORPG's, are.

[Vid-szhite]

[17:43:30.237] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[17:43:30.237] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Unshakable {1261367470326274}] ()
[17:43:30.238] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Immobilized {1261367470326270}] ()
[17:43:30.641] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1599 energy {836045448940874} (403 absorbed {836045448945511})) <1599>
[17:43:30.641] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (604* energy {836045448940874}) <604>
[17:43:31.037] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1669 energy {836045448940874}) <1669>
[17:43:31.038] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -parry {836045448945503}) <1>
[17:43:31.313] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Gore {1261122657189888}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (450* energy {836045448940874} (450 absorbed {836045448945511})) <450>
[17:43:32.442] [@Etang] [@Etang] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: rage point {836045448938497}] (1)
[17:43:32.443] [@Etang] [@Etang] [blood Frenzy {1261114067255296}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Blood Frenzy {1261114067255296}] ()
[17:43:33.171] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Massacre {1259670958243840}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Massacre {1259670958243840}] ()
[17:43:33.355] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (5645* energy {836045448940874}) <5645>
[17:43:33.360] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Immobilized {1261367470326270}] ()

 

Thats a 9k ravage right there, pretty damn OP imo. Last hit for 5.6k is crazy.

 

You mean Carnage actually has something going for it in PvP now? Who'd have thought!

 

Even with that, I don't think that's cause for a nerf. If Carnage does end up needing a nerf, after all the verbal slamming it got pre-1.2, I will laugh.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[DarthVillain]

Ravage does not need a nerf..... Ir your just standing there to get hit with all three your a retard. End.

[Zepidel]

You can't just run away from lightning or TK Throw. You can't run away from the other classes with guns who lay into you. (I know carnage roots a person, but not everyone uses that spec)

 

Assuming your smart enough to snare your not gonna be able to run away from ravage/MS either.

 

We're a 100% dps class.

 

This is the problem most people have with the class because its simply not true. With proper use of defensive CDs you have far and away the most survivability of any dps class and in certain situations it exceeds that of tanks.

You also have a hefty amount of group utility.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Zepidel

[BDreason]

Why would someone cry about 7-9k damage over 3 seconds... when a Rage Maurader can do 5k+ x 5 targets = 25k instant damage Smash's.

[Blloodbane]

I don't see it getting nerfed. It's hitting harder for sure, but the only way to land a full Ravage on someone is if someone is rooting them or if they're being CCd (Carnage not included in that obviously). That's like nerfing the fire in raids, just stop and move.

 

and Grav round hitting people for 7.5K and up (troopers bragged about this one) and can be effectively spammed... thats not OP?

 

Gunslingers ability to lock people in place with 5 stuns/roots is okay?

 

 

Shall I continue?

[Luceus]

This is the problem most people have with the class because its simply not true. With proper use of defensive CDs you have far and away the most survivability of any dps class and in certain situations it exceeds that of tanks.

You also have a hefty amount of group utility.

 

I'm not really sure I follow. A class that has to get within melee range of mobs and other players should have some type of survivability. It's not like those abilities suddenly allow us to become tanks. We're still DPS, even if we have a few ways to survive.

 

And group utility? We have a mez that's useful in pve sometimes. A 5 minute cooldown buff that increases group damage and healing for 15 seconds. Hmm what else do we bring to groups? Our buff, but every class has a buff, and Juggs have the same one.... not Marauder specific.

 

We have a group heal that triggers off of bleeds, assuming you go down that spec. And if you DO, then you DON'T have the spec that makes Ravage 100% effective, which is the point of the thread... Ravage.

 

I love my class, have been a Mara since day 1, and are not complaining for changes. I think with 1.2 it's pretty damn good and fits it's role in the game as pure dps. My thread was to address those who feel we should be nerfed, which is absurd. Mara's are finally where they should be... not overpowered, not underpowered.

[theChainsaw]

I like jumping behind people that are ravaging me. It breaks the channel pretty easily. Just sayin...

[Dissentus]

I like jumping behind people that are ravaging me. It breaks the channel pretty easily. Just sayin...

 

You do know it still hits you if you are in range, right?

[Luceus]

I like jumping behind people that are ravaging me. It breaks the channel pretty easily. Just sayin...

 

The character auto spins and still hits you. But keep jumping around.

[Zepidel]

I'm not really sure I follow. A class that has to get within melee range of mobs and other players should have some type of survivability.

 

Scoundrels and dps assassins (not tank) both have to be in melee range, why do they get 1/5th of the survivability you do?

 

And group utility? We have a mez that's useful in pve sometimes. A 5 minute cooldown buff that increases group damage and healing for 15 seconds. Hmm what else do we bring to groups? Our buff, but every class has a buff, and Juggs have the same one.... not Marauder specific.

 

Predation, best group utility in the game. Granted it was nerfed in 1.2 so you can no longer run a perma 80% group speed build but its still amazing.

[Wallach]

and Grav round hitting people for 7.5K and up (troopers bragged about this one) and can be effectively spammed... thats not OP?

 

Gunslingers ability to lock people in place with 5 stuns/roots is okay?

 

 

Shall I continue?

 

Grav Round can't hit people for 7.5k, that's Demolition Round; not only can't be spammed but requires a 5 stack of debuffs (at least 3 GCDs of stationary lead-in) to hit for max damage.

[Vid-szhite]

I like jumping behind people that are ravaging me. It breaks the channel pretty easily. Just sayin...

 

Nope. You have to move out of the 10m range, even if you are behind me, I will still finish and crit you in the face for 4100+. However, people seem to THINK that being behind me is all it takes, then they get critted in the face and cry OP...

[Vid-szhite]

Scoundrels and dps assassins (not tank) both have to be in melee range, why do they get 1/5th of the survivability you do?

 

Because they can both kill you WAY faster than a Marauder can once they're in range, and they also have unbreakable CC that can be used while attacking. They also have perma stealth capabilities and can move unseen until they're ready to strike, while Maras only have a 4 second stealth that can easily be broken.

 

Maras have survivability because they have to be in broad daylight at all times, and at best, their burst damage is still nowhere near that of a good Scoundrel, who WILL kill you unless your CC breaker is ready.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[Vid-szhite]

Grav Round can't hit people for 7.5k, that's Demolition Round; not only can't be spammed but requires a 5 stack of debuffs (at least 3 GCDs of stationary lead-in) to hit for max damage.

 

This can also be done from 30m away. You also have heavy armor and a very good defensive cooldown.

 

Some classes have different advantages. Marauders have cooldowns that make them hard to kill, Commandos have long range, loads of CC, and heavy armor. You have to stand still to do all that? Great. I have to be 4m or less away, and my most powerful ability ALSO requires me to stand still while still remaining in melee range. Checks and balances, everyone has one.

[Omophorus]

Ravage's last hit having additional range is pretty silly.

 

Short of Consulars/Inquisitors with speed buff up, not many people are getting out of 10m range before the last hit lands. I've had relatively few problems getting knocked back or stunned mid-use, but I get the most use out of it in PVP as part of a scrum (when it's very easy to slip in) or healer-humping, and hold it for after a bad healer wastes their knockback. If they hold onto their stuns/KBs expecting Ravage, that's more uptime for face melting, which any spec still does just fine without Ravage.

 

The combination of the damage buff, inability to interrupt, and addition of range to the last hit makes Ravage skirt dangerously close to OP-as-hell. Especially since the last hit is the money shot.

 

I feel like all the 1.2 changes to Marauder and Sentinel were warranted except the insane trinity of buffs on Ravage. Any 2 of the 3 would probably have been fine, it's all 3 wrapped together that's a bit of a headscratcher.

 

Its damage is now so good and it's so easy to use effectively that it should pretty much be used to the cooldown regardless of spec. If someone knocks back to interrupt it, you've just gone and all but guaranteed yourself enough uptime to finish the target off, provided Force Charge is up. If they stun, you're getting a nice chunk of Resolve early, so you'll be in great shape if you take enough damage to need to pop cooldowns.

 

All that said, I am absolutely loving Ravage in PVE. It's just silly good in all specs, in a wide variety of situations.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Omophorus

[Luceus]

Scoundrels and dps assassins (not tank) both have to be in melee range, why do they get 1/5th of the survivability you do?

 

 

 

Predation, best group utility in the game. Granted it was nerfed in 1.2 so you can no longer run a perma 80% group speed build but its still amazing.

 

 

What the other guy said about melee range. I know in pvp I'm half dead because someone stealth's up and stuns the crap out of me. Then for fun, Assassins (if not both), just disappear when I'm about to kill them. I'd say that balances it out.

 

As far as predation, while it's a good ability, it costs the same thing that allows us to heal or (as of 1.2) have a free aoe smash. So, only one spec (Carnage) really benefits from predation, and they give up heals and massive aoe damage by doing so.

 

I know it sounds cliche, but people who complain about Marauders really should play them. They're not as easy, nor are they as OP'd as they appear. Each spec brings a completely different style that people who don't play the class tend to merge as one mega spec.

 

As a rage Mara, I can't heal, I am back to one useful interrupt (versus two when I had Anni), my ravage doesn't root people, nor does my saber throw. I have one stun that is shared with Juggs, and my stacks of fury generally always go to berserk opposed to predation so I can have a free aoe.

 

I am a dps machine and I'm happy with it right now, but people want to try and nerf the only thing we bring to the game. It's frustrating.

[Luceus]

Short of Consulars/Inquisitors with speed buff up, not many people are getting out of 10m range before the last hit lands. I've had relatively few problems getting knocked back or stunned mid-use, but I get the most use out of it in PVP as part of a scrum (when it's very easy to slip in) or healer-humping, and hold it for after a bad healer wastes their knockback.

 

You're lucky.. although to be fair, my problem is more with KB or stuns interrupting me than people running away. Sadly, that happens a LOT.. it seems like every class has a KB and then you go into a scrum with 4-5 sorc's / sages, you're going to get knocked back.

 

I have been lucky and nailed it a few times, but even when I do, my combo of champion and 4 pieces of BM gear are not pulling these earth shattering numbers people are posting. I guess when I gear up more and do more premades that heal me when I'm in a scrum, I may see the 7-9k ravage.. until then...