The Problems with PvP in SWTOR

[Tirium]

I wanted to try out my new thread rez ability my commando got in 1.2

[Kelbun]

I have read all your post.

 

 

I can't believe I agreed with 99% of what you said, I also love the humour touch of your DERP system

 

Though I haven't took the time to picture the way your redesigned ilum but overall it seems good.

 

 

Now for the 1% I disagree on :

 

"[Gear] should offer an advantage, not a guaranteed win."

 

I disagree to some extent, if by advantage you mean +1 all stats out of principle, then yeah, it wouldn't affect any of the fight outcome.

 

 

But my feeling is that the only advantage a gear should provide in MMO is an "intelligent" advantage.

 

Let me explain :

 

The player should be the one to chose how to spend item stats on gear.

 

The one who spent them the most intelligently (ie built something fitting his gameplay style) will get an advantage over the one who spent them without thinking or used the gear "by default".

 

And to conclude my post, I hope Bioware will never hire someone like you, it'd be a waste of talent to work for such a bad MMO company and I hope you will one day get a job in a company that care about PvP for their MMO.

 

I have an idea. How about PvP modable gear with Expertise on it instead of on the mods and have purchasable mods for PvP comms. Or just make PvP unique shells and put the expertise on the mods.

[Tirium]

I have an idea. How about PvP modable gear with Expertise on it instead of on the mods and have purchasable mods for PvP comms. Or just make PvP unique shells and put the expertise on the mods.

 

I've always dreamed, since I was a kid, of basically getting completely blank-canvas gear as a PvP reward

 

So basically, think of it like you distribute stats at character creation in some games.

 

You'd get [PVP reward X]. It would have 120 points to spend. You could spend these 120 points on any stat you'd like -- primary stat, endurance, crit, alacrity, accuracy, defense, whatever.

 

If I only want to put Aim on my gear and run around with 8k health, I should be free to do that.

 

Let the reward be the Cosmetics, with at most "130 vs. 120" on the available points if people really need that power differential.

 

For me...I am honestly more concerned about lookin' like a bad *** than being able to face stomp fresh 50s harder.

[Bnol]

I've always dreamed, since I was a kid, of basically getting completely blank-canvas gear as a PvP reward

 

So basically, think of it like you distribute stats at character creation in some games.

 

You'd get [PVP reward X]. It would have 120 points to spend. You could spend these 120 points on any stat you'd like -- primary stat, endurance, crit, alacrity, accuracy, defense, whatever.

 

If I only want to put Aim on my gear and run around with 8k health, I should be free to do that.

 

Let the reward be the Cosmetics, with at most "130 vs. 120" on the available points if people really need that power differential.

 

For me...I am honestly more concerned about lookin' like a bad *** than being able to face stomp fresh 50s harder.

Having blank canvas type gear would make balancing harder in both PVE and PVP. We already saw how hard an Scoundrel/Op could burst with the more limited stacking of offensive stats. I think SW:TORs system of gear customization is fine.

 

SWTOR will not be DAoC, it just cannot handle large amounts of players. It will always be a small scale PVP game unless they can figure out a way to get around the severe technical limitations they have right now. I would rather have them focus on improving and perfecting that small scale PVP experience.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Bnol

[mightycount]

My #1 problem right now is the lack of randomness in group formations. I'm a full BM Mara and I haven't seen anything but newbie groups since 1.2 came out. Maybe once or twice I had one more experienced player in the group. I used to hit about 50% win rate in war zones and now my rate is exactly ZERO. Not sure if it's a temporary problem and the newbies will ramp up, but if it doesn't go away, I'm done with this game since PvP is all I do.

[Tirium]

Having blank canvas type gear would make balancing harder in both PVE and PVP. We already saw how hard an Scoundrel/Op could burst with the more limited stacking of offensive stats. I think SW:TORs system of gear customization is fine.

 

SWTOR will not be DAoC, it just cannot handle large amounts of players. It will always be a small scale PVP game unless they can figure out a way to get around the severe technical limitations they have right now. I would rather have them focus on improving and perfecting that small scale PVP experience.

 

That's why I said it was a dream . I still think SWTOR doesn't offer enough customization -- I just happen to like the way they stack stats on the Healing set (since I only heal or lolololol grav spam), but I am sure for some people this isn't ideal.

 

I agree that they will likely never be able to handle anything more than Esport-esque PvP, but they still have a ways to go in terms of reward on that field. You can't structure competitive, Esport PvP and then have gear and random chance determine fights. You have to commit to one vision or the other, or do both and keep them mostly separated. Since SWTOR is incapable of doing the mass scale world PvP (and will be seeing a population hit for it, I am sure, as this is Star WARS not Star Skirmish and other games will be offering both massive world PvP and competitive, Esport PVP), it needs to focus on implementing competitive Esport PvP however that also means doing so in a way that is conducive to that kind of play (normalizing attributes, crit chance, etc.)

[Adill]

Great post. I really miss DAOC's pvp system....it was by far the most fun I've had pvping in any mmo.

[Bocherel]

Gentle bump

[maestruljedi]

Having blank canvas type gear would make balancing harder in both PVE and PVP. We already saw how hard an Scoundrel/Op could burst with the more limited stacking of offensive stats. I think SW:TORs system of gear customization is fine.

 

"Fine" if you think the gear system is fine. I personally don't. This is 2012, not 2005. Maybe we can all agree that we aren't mice running the wheel anymore and gear as a purpose is an outdated concept. The core of this belief is flawed. Get gear so you can get better gear so you can get even better gear. No gear, no fun, you'll be stomped by those with better gear 80% of the time. No, sorry, the whole concept is rotten. They don't understand that it's not the shiny new colors or stats that keep someone playing, but the fun factor. GW balanced pvp (and pve) by basically eliminating gear as a factor.

 

Sure, i bet swtor has more players than GW has now, after what, 5 years ? But for how long ? I mean let's be real, this is all happening because EA/BW copied a "safe" system of a dying game, thinking that this is the recipe for success and that swtor would become their own personal cash cow. Of course this isn't the case, gaming evolved and grinding endlessly just to stay afloat gets very old, very fast. It's an obsolete system. One thing that GW had over many other games was the laid back attitude. If you'd be out of the game for 3 months, you wouldn't miss much. In wow and by extension, swtor, if you take a 3 month break, you fall behind. Everyone else is ahead of you and you feel like you missed out, like you got left behind, so every day you feel inclined to log into the game and do a bunch of stuff that you don't find fun just to be in line with the others. In GW my gear never got old and there was basically zero incentive to keep playing, especially after finishing all campaigns with all chars and whatnot... and yet i still kept playing because i would log in to do what i wanted, not what it was expected of me.

 

This trend to make your MMO into a second job is quite the standard these days unfortunately. Do your dailies, farm your comms, upgrade your gear. These are chores, and while we might have fun doing them, we would have much more fun NOT doing them. I guess it's part of the same problem with the degree of freedom we are allowed. They force stuff upon us, they don't let us choose how we want to do things.

[Benets]

Denova (Rep vs. Imp PvP planet)

World Pvp My Ilum Map

 

Patch 1.x Guilds

Guild HQs

[DarthOvertone]

OP...you should post this in the Suggestions section. It will likely have more legs there and the Devs might actually read it.

[Robert_Hites]

Well i have to say i agree what u say ....One note the Planet X Idea..I like tha t alot do to the fact I think the PVP in general is messed uped...You cant tell me that a LVL 10 will have the same stats as a LVL49 in PVP..Do to one fact ..The higher the LVL the more abilitys and tools they have... Another i have check on stats in PVP players and when i was at LVL 11 I checked another player stats compared to mine their damage was twice as mine...Also PVP gear when u get it LVL's 20 ...40.. and 50...Well lets say at 20 to 40 ...Its a no brainer that 40's can equipt higher and better mods then then a 20..but i can go on alot about what I think..I just know i love pvp but SWTOR is not their for me..like other games i played..make it 10 to 19,,,20 to 29...30 to 39..40 to 49...then 50 easy fix....

[MbaxterBeau]

So much derp already and slow little time!

[Gromk]

Hehe, I want DAOC 2. I agree with most of what the OP says, however I feel that the stat cap from daoc should be implemented as well. You could customize gear in DAOC, but there was no real reason to put all your points into one stat, because there were stat caps. If you can choose to put stats into main stat, health, etc of course most people are going to max out there main stat. Optimally it is almost always the best choice.

 

In daoc you would max out your main stats and endurance or whatever it was called. Then you had to decide would you max out all your resists, add a bonus to some stats, add weapon speed, add bonus to max health etc. This way there would easily be many different stat builds for the same class/spec depending on what your final goal was. If you were interested in soloing alot then you'd probably want a good balance. If you only 8manned and were a dps, you probably went for maximum damage possible. If you always had the best resist buffers in your group you would slack on some resist in your gear build. The possibilities were crazy.

 

One of the best things that I thought swtor did was get rid of MADS, or multiple attribute deficient syndrome. There was no need to increase strength for damage, dexterity for crit chance, intelligence for magic, wisdom for healing etc. MADS was probably one of the toughest things in DAOC because some classes got screwed by it.

 

Due to the lack of MADS, hybrids were very interesting for me. This was one of the few games where I could be a true hybrid. Being able to choose based on the situation whether to heal or dps was great. Then they started nerfing alot of the hybrids I agree with other posters that it seems like bioware wants everyone to spec 31 points deep into their trees.

 

Daoc also did another thing right that I just thought of. The huge number of classes weren't balanced. And there was no need to balance. Classes weren't just mirrors of each other on the different realms. But it worked. Some classes excelled in solo play, some in small groups, some in large groups, some in all, some were better at pve, some at pvp. Some classes healed better than their mirrors, some dps'd better than their mirrors. However people learned to make groups build on each others strengths and weaknesses. One setup might own in melee, another one owns in long range casting, another one excelled at close quarter fighting in towers and keeps(pbaoe). Another setup might excel at kite fighting, another one might excel at cc, while another one might excel at keep taking. This flexibility plus the ability to customize gear made great groups. Man do I miss daoc.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Gromk

[Maerdikai]

I completely agree with the OP about PvP. I really think Open World PvP needs to have dynamic quests (versus the static quests currently in the game). Basically you pick up your Open World PvP daily from the mission terminal on the fleet and the quest continually updates you (with a map would be great) about the current situation and what you need to do to complete your daily. So if Ilum is under 75% control by the other faction when you pick up the quest, the quest might say "Capture Bases A, B, C, or D", but maybe you don't do the quest right away and do a flashpoint. When you finish your flashpoint, maybe now your faction controls 75% of Ilum and your quest no longer says "Capture Bases A, B, C, or D" but instead says "Successfully defend Base B (which is under attack) for 15 minutes OR capture Base E (which is still held by the enemy)."

[Robert_Hites]

Well I tried to stick it out just getting fustrated with pvp .so dont know what im gonna do either delete game and go back to the other game i was playing atleast I will have fun playing...I just dont think SWTOR got the PVP no where near it should be guess Ill go check GW2 out

[AlyxDinas]

I'd attribute a lot of problems to the players and the systems that reward them. Bad run in Alderaan?

 

:rak_01:"Hey, gang! Let's regroup and do our job and fight a good fight! The match is young and we can win this!"

 

:rak_tongue:"Nah. I'll just get my defender medals now. /pee"

Edited July 26, 2012 by AlyxDinas