Need help with TK sage. PVP

[MetalFang]

My questions:

 

Is there any point casting turbulence at all? I know its a guarantee crit with WM on but I find that it takes too long to cast. And I can just cast disturbance and hope for a TF proc and instant cast TW.

 

And what priority do you all use for skills?

I am currently doing WM,Distubance, if TF proc -> TK wave, if psychic projection proc -> TK throw.

 

I am averaging around 200 -250K damage per warzone, is it normal all should i change my rotation? All my gears are champ pieces with two battlemaster mix in.

[MonsAlpha]

First of all I would not use TK in PvP at all lol. But if you are using it, then yes, of course use Turbulence, it's a guaranteed crit for anywhere from 2.5-5k damage. It is internal damage meaning it is not mitigated as much as kinetic. You can spam disturbance, obviously, and get an instant cast TK wave, but both of those are kinetic damage, so it is highly mitigated by armor.

[idonotdonot]

You are going to be frustrated using TK for PVP. I do see how it's appealing. The graphics of combat are much better with TK than for Balance, but it's no contest when it comes to actual effectiveness. Balance wins hands down. Use this spec:

 

Balance PVP

[Lugh]

You are going to be frustrated using TK for PVP. I do see how it's appealing. The graphics of combat are much better with TK than for Balance, but it's no contest when it comes to actual effectiveness. Balance wins hands down. Use this spec:

 

Balance PVP

 

I believed that until the last couple days PvPing as Pure TK, and I must say I am enjoying the hell out of it.

 

It's better at 1v1, and sometimes better at groups. I love watching people utterly melt under Weaken, turbulence, (weaken crits), fast TT, disturbance, TKwave. It's WAY more bursty, and more difficult to set up, but worth learning the turret dance.

[MetalFang]

Ok, so i switch to balance, I can see why it's the better of the the two, I hit 400K damage on void star with only two battlemaster pieces; with plenty of kills as well.

 

However when I do ops I tend to run out of force, anyway around it? And is server force really worth it(since you are throwing two point into psychic ab)? I use it only when I need to get away.

[Lugh]

Ok, so i switch to balance, I can see why it's the better of the the two, I hit 400K damage on void star with only two battle master pieces; with plenty of kills as well.

 

However when I do ops I tend to run out of force, anyway around it? And is server force really worth it(since you are throwing two point into psychic ab)? I use it only when I need to get away.

 

There is a difference in perception based on total damage dealt V Effective damage dealt.

 

The 400k number is deceptive because often your damage will allow a good set of healers to heal through a lot of it, as the DoT stack, and FiB is simply not enough to out burst all the heals. Meaning that they live longer, the objective doesn't get capped and you end up losing out on the Warzone.

 

With Full Tk, my damage may be 250k in many matches, but most of my targets died faster and before they could do much, regardless of heals.

 

Both styles are very amusing, however full TK doesn't suffer from the I HAVE A BRAIN! I CAN CLEANSE! That truly good opponents will do to utterly neutralize 1/3 to 1/2+ your damage in Balance.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lugh

[idonotdonot]

Don't use that spec for Ops. You want to have Psychic Projection and Mental Longevity when you are running ops. Use this spec.

 

Sever force is worth it in PVP for the 2 second root. That has saved my life and/or gotten me the kill many many times.

 

Ok, so i switch to balance, I can see why it's the better of the the two, I hit 400K damage on void star with only two battlemaster pieces; with plenty of kills as well.

 

However when I do ops I tend to run out of force, anyway around it? And is server force really worth it(since you are throwing two point into psychic ab)? I use it only when I need to get away.

Edited April 16, 2012 by idonotdonot
More information for original poster

[idonotdonot]

I follow some of your logic but there is one portion I don't. If the healers were cleansing then the damage would be lower. I haven't found that to be the case and from his last post neither does the OP. I don't think there was a lot of cleansing going on pre 1.2 and with the healer nerfs there is even less post 1.2 as healers can be brought down quickly and are focusing on direct heals to themselves and the party.

 

I agree with you that one shot burst is higher for Full TK, but a POM/FIB Mind Crush with weaken mind and Sever already up on the target does butt loads of damage. Remember, with the new patch each tick of Mind Crush takes advantage of the POM 20% damage increase.

 

I've altered my PVP Spec a little. It's now full self heals and I'm extremely hard to kill between the self heals 4 CC's and sprint it takes a concerted effort on the opposing team to bring me down. I'm also Biochem so I have the reusable medpac.

 

There is a difference in perception based on total damage dealt V Effective damage dealt.

 

The 400k number is deceptive because often your damage will allow a good set of healers to heal through a lot of it, as the DoT stack, and FiB is simply not enough to out burst all the heals. Meaning that they live longer, the objective doesn't get capped and you end up losing out on the Warzone.

 

With Full Tk, my damage may be 250k in many matches, but most of my targets died faster and before they could do much, regardless of heals.

 

Both styles are very amusing, however full TK doesn't suffer from the I HAVE A BRAIN! I CAN CLEANSE! That truly good opponents will do to utterly neutralize 1/3 to 1/2+ your damage in Balance.

[Aerofinest]

I use the 1/12/28 build which to me gives best of both worlds since 1.2. If you have the "good" player out there then you still have your Psychic Projection for dmg.

 

I follow some of your logic but there is one portion I don't. If the healers were cleansing then the damage would be lower. I haven't found that to be the case and from his last post neither does the OP. I don't think there was a lot of cleansing going on pre 1.2 and with the healer nerfs there is even less post 1.2 as healers can be brought down quickly and are focusing on direct heals to themselves and the party.

 

I agree with you that one shot burst is higher for Full TK, but a POM/FIB Mind Crush with weaken mind and Sever already up on the target does butt loads of damage. Remember, with the new patch each tick of Mind Crush takes advantage of the POM 20% damage increase.

 

I've altered my PVP Spec a little. It's now full self heals and I'm extremely hard to kill between the self heals 4 CC's and sprint it takes a concerted effort on the opposing team to bring me down. I'm also Biochem so I have the reusable medpac.

[Aehgo]

If you are TK you are a turret and if any melee class with an interupt gets in range your screwed.

Sage " Weaken mind"

Sent "Force leap"

Sage "Turbu-"

Sent "Interrupt"

Sage "Force Wave"

Sage "Distu-"

Sent "Interupt/Force staisis and Masterstirke"

Sage "Dea-"

Sent "Interupt"

Sage "d"

[DirtyBirdie]

If you are TK you are a turret and if any melee class with an interupt gets in range your screwed.

Sage " Weaken mind"

Sent "Force leap"

Sage "Turbu-"

Sent "Interrupt"

Sage "Force Wave"

Sage "Distu-"

Sent "Interupt/Force staisis and Masterstirke"

Sage "Dea-"

Sent "Interupt"

Sage "d"

 

LOL made my day. Yup - this is pretty much the story of TK sage. Alot of people talk smack and say sages had it coming and that things are finally balanced blah blah blah. Let me say this. I have a level 50 sage and a level 50 sentinel. They are not balanced at all. If you want to be a boss in PVP roll a sentinel or shadow tank. The end.

[juglis]

I also am finding that the tk spec is giving a lot less damage output, around 250k, while balance I get a lot more but am finding that single targets, ie healer are dying a hell of a lot faster.

My question is which is more beneficial to the team, as I find with balance healers can just heal through the dots and most of my stuns are being stopped by resolve

[Gondolindhrim]

Full TK is pretty good for PvP now, the burst damage from Turbilence > Potency > TK Wave > TKT is pretty nice for focus fire. And between Kinetic Collapse, Force Wake, Force Slow, Force Speed, Force Lift and Force Barrier, you have plenty of tools to survive, escape and control your opponents. On top of that, we have Mental Alacrity which makes us immune to interrupts, that's a pretty big deal.

 

The only other damage spec I play in PvP right now is 0/30/16.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Gondolindhrim

[teclado]

I also am finding that the tk spec is giving a lot less damage output, around 250k, while balance I get a lot more but am finding that single targets, ie healer are dying a hell of a lot faster.

My question is which is more beneficial to the team, as I find with balance healers can just heal through the dots and most of my stuns are being stopped by resolve

It's probably worth pointing out that this thread was started over a year ago, so most of the posts in here could be outdated.

 

With that said, Gondolindhrim's 0/30/16 build looks solid to me (fwiw). I've frequently used something similar for pvp and PVE. I think that full TK is really difficult for solo PVE, balance is much easier. However, at 55 in pvp, I've come to love the TK sage when done right. You can actually put up some very good damage numbers if you do it right.

 

Watch this guy to get an idea of how to play a TK sage: youtube link

 

He plays a sorc, so you'll have to do some translation, but it should give you a good idea of how to play as a TK sage.

[warstory]

Watched that vid and it looked like he had 0 alacrity probably stalker set and all power augments. 2.0 cast time on turbalance will get u killed, he looked good against a bad team. Against knowledgable tk sage can be locked out of all casts especially especially if u have 2 sec cast time on turbalance just to get high hits.

[Gondolindhrim]

The most disappointing part for me was that Extrication was used 0 times in a game of Huttball.

[skarlson]

If you get high enough alacrity to make any semblance of a difference in cast time your overall damage per hit will suck. Alacrity is simply not tenable in PVP. The issue I have found is when multiple people have decided to target you. In those cases I have found madness is actually easier since only one ability requires standing still. You also get a root every 9s you can use to kite the closest person. However, if multiple people are after you 90% of the time that means your either in a pug or a premade with 4 pugs who are terrible.

 

In a good team most of the time having multiple persons devoted to killing a single target will get your side punished quickly so it rarely happens. You may have a couple people on you and you can stand still with a good healer and/or guard ignoring them. Lightning is viable in PVP now but still has issues due to biofail making our ability to stay at range weaker due to whines. There are other classes who do equivilent damage with better cc or defensive cds and usually both. So, with that if you have another class you are still better off playing that class instead. Sorcs/sages are in a much better place than they have been at anytime in the last year however.

[Slivermasterz]

A TK Sage will never have the advantage against most other classes in a 1v1 fight, but that is why you need to turn the fight to your advantage. In TK there are several utility skill that Sages have. Like the Force Armor Blind, Force Wave Root, TK Wave Slow, and many others. Good positioning and use of cooldowns at the right moments will make the TK spec superior. Though in the end, the TK Sage will be more of a turret spec than a rush in and rampage spec.

[MusicRider]

If you are TK you are a turret and if any melee class with an interupt gets in range your screwed.

Sage " Weaken mind"

Sent "Force leap"

Sage "Turbu-"

Sent "Interrupt"

Sage "Force Wave"

Sage "Distu-"

Sent "Interupt/Force staisis and Masterstirke"

Sage "Dea-"

Sent "Interupt"

Sage "d"

 

Most horrible rotation, no wonder why there are so many complaints. Why on earth are you trying to cast and go head to head against a melee in melee range? You have tools to create distance use them and l2p.

[Slaybred]

If i may. I use this for pvp. It is heavy proc dependant. But if played right the procs are fairly high and should be both fun and useful.

Its a pure dps. Typical glass canon. But a tad more mobile than the full TK.

I am not full conq. About 50/50 conq / partisan and usualy end up top 2-3 among the other sages, sorcs and smash monkeys. And it would take a skilled player to beat me down.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Slaybred

[Kovaos]

I'll have to say I have not logged on my Sage for a while and always PvPed with Balance in the past. I really enjoyed the full TK tree last night. It was nice to see my damage amongst the top players knowing it's not just DoT damage. It means I was burning down dudes. I still need to tweak my rotations and I often found myself getting lazy and not moving when I should.