I am a MAJOR supporter...

[Kashtor]

They need more levelling options in terms of planets. other then that I'm content as a cucumber.

[goswald]

Actually, I don't know anything about you, other than you seem to think the whole forum knows you, they don't.

 

Wow, really?? That's all you took from the original post? I don't believe he thought that at all, and who are you to speak for everyone anyway?

 

Just curious, is your sig supposed to be a badge of pride?... Your lady brag to her GFs about that? LOL... oh dear, now I'm guilty of being a confrontational ***** making ridiculous assumptions...

[Blackardin]

But what do you guys think it is that doesn't give swtor that "thing" that wow has.

 

Gnomes. Gnomes are crunchy.

 

.....and apparently Wow has nothing on this game at all, or they would still be playing wow. Right? However, if they were, I'm of the belief that many would be on the wow boards arguing that SW is so much better a game. LOL

Edited April 14, 2012 by Blackardin

[Starglide]

But those are innovations. Legacy system is also a huge innovation. Innovation is something new to the genre. There has never been anything like it done before.

 

 

 

The same reason WoW didn't "crush" Everquest in 4 months. Took them what, a year to finally pick up?

 

 

 

Really? Could you link the part where they said that? My PCGamer magazine showed a quote from one of them saying that they are more innovative in the MMO genre than other MMOs.

 

Point is, you do not need to be innovative to be the best. That's how WoW became the best. They didn't innovate anything. They just enhanced the genre.

 

Them being the biggest MMO doesn't mean they are the most innovative. There's nothing innovative about them. After 5-6 years it's still the same old grind for reputation, grind for gear, grind heroics, grind raids. Same trinity system, tank, healer, dps.

 

They just created a better MMO than Everquest. They're not innovative.

 

So to accuse SW:TOR for not being innovative (they are), when WoW was never that innovative to begin with, is just strange.

 

Dude, what are you talking about? Six months after launch, WoW was up to patch 1.6. Six major content patches in. SWTOR is only two and before you say WoW's patches were small... do your research. They even had three legendarys and it didn't take a year to speed up, the population was rabidly growing.

 

Some of your need to stop posting if you really do not know about the business and its history. We all know you love Star Wars and we all do too, but Star Wars alone cannot sell or make the game amazing. So why do you act this way?

 

The game is NOT good in terms of an MMO. Plain and simple. Give it a year, give it a decade, it doesn't matter. It will never 'crush' WoW.... ever.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Starglide

[Kailthir]

Here is my 2 credits worth....

 

First off I do enjoy playing TOR. I have not played WoW. I have played GW since 2004, LOTRO since 2007. I tried Rift, tried Warhammer, tried AOC and wasn't impressed.

 

TOR is lacking alot of things that emerse you in the game. This emersion is what makes and brakes any MMO. Emersion causes you to care about the playing world and the toons you create.

 

-No community. less than 5 populated servers, the other 70-80 don't have enough people.

 

-All worlds "feel dead". NPC's just stand there, like their feet are stuck to the ground. Even the enemy feels like a punching bag waiting to be hit.

 

-Worlds are just not explorable. They are so small. For example: in LOTRO if I wanted to check out the mountain in the distance, I could walk to it and climb up and see if anything hidden is there. In TOR this just isn't possible. Everything feels claustrophobic.

 

-They spent way too much time and money on VO. It's fine and dandy if this was a single player game, but in an MMO you have to have tons of content. Fluff only goes so far.

 

-Story... you don't need more than 50 cut sceens every time you speak to an NPC. The more time you spend watching cut sceens every 5 seconds, the less time you are playing the game. Story will only get you so far before people start to tire with it. Yes I know there is a spacebar. That is not the point. The point is for every cut sceen you have, it takes up alot of money, resources and development time. These things can be better used in the game elsewhere. VO is very expensive.

 

-In MMO's "rails" just plain suck. It takes away any freedom the player has. This game has alot of rails, or rail like attributes.

 

-Open world PvP... I am a PvE player first and foremost. I don't do WZ etc. They bore me. But open world PvP is an awesome fun thing. This game lacks any incentive to do so. Other than a bunch of lvl 50's ganking on lvl 27's. I find this boring, unchallenging and stupid. Make world PvP mean something, give an incentive. Make it worth something when you kill an enemy player that is no more than 2 levels from ur level, + or -.

 

Like I said earlier, I do enjoy the game but it feels like a single player game, and not an MMO. No sense of community and epicness to it, due to the reasons I have already stated.

 

Story and VO will only carry this game so far. LORTO has probally the best story arcs in any MMO i have played. Not much VO, tons of text, but the story is very solid. TOR needs something to set it apart or else it will just fade into the back ground like many other MMO's

[Deyjarl]

Every single time a new MMO launches. WoW takes a MASSIVE population hit. 3 or 4 months most of them are back.

 

As I said, people are attached to their characters already geared and leveled.

 

 

This game though has given them the biggest hit so far, and seems to have a lot more people interested in staying so far.

[Gimano]

To me it certainly isn't end game.

 

But an open world, yes. It's one of the core aspects of an mmorpg in my opinion.

However I'm not sure how it would work for a science fiction mmorpg, especially one that is based on Star Wars. How are you going to fill all that place? Bears, boards, spiders etc won't make sense.

 

And I don't think it's because BW didn't know much about the MMORPG world, it's probably just a matter of choice. They wanted to invest more into (single player)RPG rather than in MMO.

[Gungan]

You guys all know I am a major supporter of this game.

 

But what do you guys think it is that doesn't give swtor that "thing" that wow has. If you are one of those people. That "thing" that DAoC or EQ had. What do you think it could be? I have been trying to think about it for months upon months why some feel this way.

 

For alot...that special little "thing" isn't there. I can't put my finger on it, I really can't! I love this game A LOT and I have a spark and it's growing. Sometimes it goes down, but there is a draw. But to some there isn't just that....oomph and "HELL YEAH" feeling that is missing that people keep talking about. Really..this is driving me insane. What do you think it is? I'm trying to figure it out for some people..

 

a) The Old Republic Era of the Star Wars Universe is far inferior to the New Republic Era. It's not nearly as grounded or mysterious when it comes to the Force where the few remaining Jedi are trying to discover and learn about the Force all over again - it's just a crazy swashbuckling sci-fantasy pirate "thing".

 

b) The world is completely static. Nothing changes for any reason despite the illusion of choice every player gets. It all happens in the backroom of someplace you can't even go back to when you've finished what you were there to do. The PVP doesn't even have any impact on the war that is supposedly going on.

 

c) Flashpoints and Operations are just not interesting. I have yet to do a single one where I felt like completing it was an achievement. The encounters are bland, predictable and very repetitive. It's a step down from what anyone who has played another modern MMO is used to, and it's obvious very few people even bother doing them.

 

d) There are no massive space fleet battles.

 

e) No infinite universe with infinite possibilities to explore.

 

I think d) and e) are probably the biggest reason. People love giant fleet battles. Star Wars would be pretty friggin' boring without them... and hey it is!

 

In a Sci-Fi/Fantasy MMO in an IP with interstellar travel, being herded onto a limited number of planets does not feel natural. I should be able to be a spacer who lives on ships, flies around the galaxy doing cool stuff, and rarely goes planetside if I want to, but I can't.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Gungan

[Valkirus]

Cross server Looking for Group for all 4+ content. Edited April 15, 2012 by Valkirus

[chimex]

Actually, I don't know anything about you, other than you seem to think the whole forum knows you, they don't.

 

this, all else is silly

[Valkirus]

a) The Old Republic Era of the Star Wars Universe is far inferior to the New Republic Era. It's not nearly as grounded or mysterious when it comes to the Force where the few remaining Jedi are trying to discover and learn about the Force all over again - it's just a crazy swashbuckling sci-fantasy pirate "thing".

 

b) The world is completely static. Nothing changes for any reason despite the illusion of choice every player gets. It all happens in the backroom of someplace you can't even go back to when you've finished what you were there to do. The PVP doesn't even have any impact on the war that is supposedly going on.

 

c) Flashpoints and Operations are just not interesting. I have yet to do a single one where I felt like completing it was an achievement. The encounters are bland, predictable and very repetitive. It's a step down from what anyone who has played another modern MMO is used to, and it's obvious very few people even bother doing them.

 

d) There are no massive space fleet battles.

 

e) No infinite universe with infinite possibilities to explore.

 

I think d) and e) are probably the biggest reason. People love giant fleet battles. Star Wars would be pretty friggin' boring without them... and hey it is!

 

In a Sci-Fi/Fantasy MMO in an IP with interstellar travel, being herded onto a limited number of planets does not feel natural. I should be able to be a spacer who lives on ships, flies around the galaxy doing cool stuff, and rarely goes planetside if I want to, but I can't.

 

Atleast you have got to experence the Operations. I have yet to do one and been playing sence second wave of early invites. My server is too dead to find a group.

 

As far as massive space battles...na..no interest at all in those...or the PVP. The ability to do some exploring with your ship would be nice.

[AilsaH]

I really would advise people find a group of friends or a guild to quest/pvp with to get full enjoyment from this game. If you play it alone, you may as well be playing a single-player game.

[futuredami]

That is like saying BF3 hasn't change compared to DOOM.

 

You are delusional. If you think adding cut sense and VO did more for the change the genre more then WoW did.

 

 

Why isn't Starwars Sky rocketing??? WoW should be crushed with all this awsome new inovation we got from SW:ToR.

 

Even Biowae Devs has stated they were not doing anything new just adding they story system to a prove MMO fomual.

 

 

Why made ALL THE RIGHT Changes. To vastly improve over EQ and draw in a massive new audenince to the game.

 

consumers very rarely want true innovation. people actually look for similar experiences. when purchasing. things that are truly new usually frighten and confuse people.

 

there really wasn't any vast landscape in wow. granted the huge load times in TOR really slow the game's pace down, but wow zones are tiny fishbowls. this was true in vanilla and ran true through cata. there was no reward for exploring these little zones aside from filling in the map or farming, which nobody enjoyed anyway.

 

the achievement system (another thing which wow did not innovate at all, but appropriated and watered down) was brilliant because the developers got tons of mileage and gameplay time out of zero extra work. It just tracks all the things in the game and gives a feedback to the players.

 

Wow was a horrendously ugly and poorly written game. The one and only thing it had going for it was tight controls and good playability.

[ferroz]

You guys all know I am a major supporter of this game.

Are you?

 

who are you again?

 

But what do you guys think it is that doesn't give swtor that "thing" that wow has. That "thing" that DAoC or EQ had.

Lack of an open world; instead we have a linear experience. Edited April 15, 2012 by ferroz

[Mashy]

While I also like the game, for me it's the lack of a truly open world. There's so little actual game area...it really feels like the corridor worlds of ME just opened up for more players. There just isn't any sense of exploration or depth to the world. IMO immersion really suffers because of this.

 

^^ Very much this. I don't even play anymore and believe me when I say that this has made me very sad. I tried so hard to like it but the lack of exploration has killed it for me.

[Underverce]

Totally a re-post of a thread I started yesterday but it belongs here.

 

I've been playing since beta. Played religiously until Christmas and then took a couple months off. Came back about 6 weeks ago to give this a second chance. Sorry for the wall of text in advance, you don't have to read it.

 

When I came back I immediately had to re-roll on a different server, which really irked me. Left behind a 50 and several mid-30 level characters because of the extremely light population. Moved to Harbinger for the "denser" population. Still the same problems though. After 25, no one touches heroics. Few people want to do FPs until 50, but I enjoy leveling and seeing all the content. Not happening. Why do we need 800 servers with only 20 - 30 ppl per zone? No dungeon finder. Can I just get a pause button to go with my single player game?

 

Combat does not flow. It just doesn't. Maybe it's the lack of auto-attack, maybe its the way the moves just don't mesh together, maybe it's both. I feel like I spend more time in combat waiting between attacks for cool downs than I do actually fighting. Playing an Operative at the moment and seeing the same 3 knife attacks over and over and over is just retarded. You force me to use my knife for all my dps then give me crap for graphics, not to mention the knife never looks different regardless of what is equipped. Lame is the only word I have for that. (And still no preview of weapons in the dressing room. Seriously?)

 

Content. More please. Since you have made the game very unfriendly to grouping, how about fewer monotonous generic quests you see over and over again and more class specific quests. One chain per planet that is class specific is just not enough. After you've leveled once per faction there is nothing exciting going on because you have already done it. Branching, class specific quest chains that give different rewards and have different consequences depending on play-style and choices made would be much more appropriate for the world you've created.

 

Space combat. I read the huge thread. Suck it up guys and let them do something amazing with it, assuming bw is up to the challenge. It needs more... everything.

 

So sick of the whining about difficulty guys. If you can't play worth a flip that is so your problem and not Bioware's. Look at what killed wow. Consistent nerfing of content until the only people who played were children, morons, and gold farmers. Wouldn't log into that game now if someone payed me. Definitely don't want to see that happen here. Some people aren't good at sports, so they don't play. Please apply that to gaming if you can't make the grade. The game was much more difficult during beta but it wasn't even difficult then. It's borderline moron-safe right now and it bores the crap out of me. (Insert elitist tag here )

 

Legacy. Ugh. Enough said. Fire some devs and try again. I could write for days on what you could have done. Not even worth the cyberspace.

 

Race variety is too small. I've seen the arguments on why you chose to limit us to the more human-like species, and they honestly fall short for the gaming community. All we see is "wait for the expansion." Should have given us some of the more exotic species and droids as playable races from the start. We know you will eventually, and the waiting really isn't appreciated.

 

And a personal plea from me. You did away with 2/3 of the titles that were available during beta. Why? That was a harmless way to customize your character and you just pulled it out without a word. Many of us are title junkies, why the hate?

[JimNoonienSoong]

Alcohol and getting drunk, like LOTRO

[Lt_Latency]

. The one and only thing it had going for it was tight controls and good playability.

 

Right the most important part of a video game.

 

Thats why it crushes everything. Seriously how many games does it have to crush even ones with 150 million dollars budget for people to at least acceppt that its a quality game.

 

You might not like it's style, But it's overall is dam good game and does what it does better then anyone else

[Serbegorn]

You guys all know I am a major supporter of this game.

 

But what do you guys think it is that doesn't give swtor that "thing" that wow has. If you are one of those people. That "thing" that DAoC or EQ had. What do you think it could be? I have been trying to think about it for months upon months why some feel this way.

 

For alot...that special little "thing" isn't there. I can't put my finger on it, I really can't! I love this game A LOT and I have a spark and it's growing. Sometimes it goes down, but there is a draw. But to some there isn't just that....oomph and "HELL YEAH" feeling that is missing that people keep talking about. Really..this is driving me insane. What do you think it is? I'm trying to figure it out for some people..

 

A development/management team that doesn't have their heads stuck so far up their asses that they can't see that they're own incompetence is ruining a game that should be legendary. There is simply NO reason that this game shouldn't completely shatter any records that WoW set, none.... other than Bioware/EA's obvious incompetence. I had such high hopes for this patch but it's clear that they are completely clueless. These games constantly evolve, such is the nature of an mmo, but when it's so obvious and clear that the game is being run the bunch of morons that gave us this crap-tastic patch there simply is NO reason to stick around. Is that what you were asking?

 

I bet George Lucas is FUMING MAD.

[MrOrionQuest]

Not sure how it could get put in, with such a late start, but I would suggest more tacos. There has been a huge limit on the amount of tacos we could eat in TOR, and I would suggest they totally add more of them.

 

I mean, who doesn't like tacos? Besides all of you truly evil and despicable bastards out there, who can hate the joy a taco brings? Nobody, that's who. We could have taco pets, taco mounts, taco weapons and armor, the list is almost endless! But why? Why no tacos? Do we not deserve it? Are we not entitled to more tacos? Why for the love of Pete can we never have enough tacos?

 

And another point I'd like to make; pudding.

 

Have you seen this? :

 

Do we REALLY want the Japanese to take over the pudding market? REALLY? This would mean world destruction, on a global scale. All of those super smart scientists would be correct in assuming the Japanese takeover. Pudding is just the start, next it will be our electronic devices, our anime, maybe....even...our....robots.

[SliceAntilles]

Honestly I think it's because so many of us are MMO vets, that nothing really does it for us any more. Nothing feels new or "woah!" any more. All of the wowzers are in the game, but we're just so used to it, it's like "oh that's kinda neat" and ends there.

 

Just my two cents. I never played EQ, but have been gaming since CoH game out... many many moons ago. I was actually kinda smart, ambitious and cool back then, all this gaming has turned me into a drooling listless idiot

 

Or maybe that's just being 9 years older...

[MrOrionQuest]

OH, and let's not forget the strange department. Americans and other European brethren have had a large majority when it comes to the strange, but no. Lately there has been an uprising, a sneak attack, a front which has largely been hidden to the prying eyes of the media and most common folk. With acts such as the drug infested Ozzy, and Marilyn Manson, we've been accustomed to providing strange and unusual entertainment to the masses, but underneath our noses, we've been attacked, by the Japanese.

 

Sure, we could let Katamari slip, it was a somewhat neat game, it had it's elements that could turn us away from anything reality based, but it's been amplified recently. I'm going to show you an example, but you should have your children cover their eyes, I don't think they are prepared for the horror.

 

 

Never mind the cleverly placed cute girl, the obvious intent here is our coveted strange department, which is truly being threatened. We as world powers need to react, and swiftly, before this gets out of hand, or, if left unattended, could destroy us all.

[Qoojo]

The thing DAoC and EQ had going for them was little to no competition. The biggest problem I see for SWTOR is the dead lifeless planets that are static much like EQ's world was, only far more linear. Nothing but a huge herd of lifeless NPCs standing around, xp fruit to be harvested. Then the planet design is just outright annoying as hell with all the stupid walls, elevators, and funneling of the player. Hardly feels like a big open planet to me.

[DonWild]

First I have to say DAoC was my first and favorite MMO. Have played others but you always have a "first love." Now, as to SWTOR. It is linear...every planet has two questlines, one for your class and one general line so you could get a bit more xp. EVERY planet. A few more random quests that are out in the margins with variations on levels would be nice (otherwise why would a lvl 50 go back to Taris or Balmorra except to help a guildie level?) Space combat would be nice, but MMO's take some time to evolve, usually over a year, so I'm willing to cut BW some slack. PvP...as I said at the beginning, DAoC was my first game and I loved the PvP system. Every other MMO I've played has a pvp system that I hated...it was all "gank the other guilds" and essentially just juiced up the "hate other people" sentiment...DAoC might have lead you to hate the other REALMS (damn ALL Hybernians!), but you were pretty much ignorant of the person you were fighting; he might be an anonymous but hated body if he were playing a different realm toon and your bestest friend if he was playing on your side on any given day. My advice: Take Ilum offline and turn it into something like DAoC had...the PvP was DAoC's endgame after you hit level 50 with an entirely new set of PvP ranks and skills. Make it a 'battle planet' with wildly variable terrain and climate areas (sort of like, well...Earth!) Come up with an area that the Empire controls, one the Republic controls and a vast no man's land out there in the middle, with military camps to fight over and maybe a wild zone with appeal to the smuggler/bounty hunter classes. Someplace for all the 50's to gather and fight over something other than just 'special mystic goo' sources. Make it a place to dream about on your way to lvl 50. Just a thought to provide that 'oomph' the original poster felt was missing.

[Runestone]

I don't think any game has had the "thing" EQ had.

 

 

EQ coincidentally, was my first MMORPG.

 

I think Brad McQuaid "lol" said it best.

 

**Paraphrasing**

Your first MMO is like your first kiss you'll never get that feeling back again.

 

 

You never forget your first, lol.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Runestone