what are scoundrel scrappers doing now, after 1.2?

[teambff]

scrapper is nowhere near as fun as it was... after 1.2, the constant active attack style doesn't seem there, doesn't feel as fluid, the giggle is gone. aghhh very frustrating. very frustrating indeed.

 

what are scrappers doing now? i tried df/sawbones before patch but didn't enjoy it as much as scrapper... not sure where to go from here.

Edited April 14, 2012 by teambff

[Daiyukie]

I was Scrapper from level 10 and never changed, then read the patch notes and figured I'd try healer. I hated healing on my Merc, but I love the Scoundrel's super mobile healing. 3 Upper Hands is amazing and I think I've used my Vanish like... twice in ~30 Warzones so far.

Definitely awesome being able to keep my team alive, though I haven't quite figured out how to burst-heal effectively, but it could just be by design that I can't save someone being focused hard.

[DunsparrowSolo]

I was Scrapper from level 10 and never changed, then read the patch notes and figured I'd try healer. I hated healing on my Merc, but I love the Scoundrel's super mobile healing. 3 Upper Hands is amazing and I think I've used my Vanish like... twice in ~30 Warzones so far.

Definitely awesome being able to keep my team alive, though I haven't quite figured out how to burst-heal effectively, but it could just be by design that I can't save someone being focused hard.

 

You cant really burst-heal. You can put out some good HPS if you have SRMPx2 rolling on a target and spam UWM+EMP but getting those things going requires some setup time. If you can see the damage coming, you can keep a target up for a bit, but trying to switch and save someone who is being burst is not possible.

 

That said, with nerfs to Sage and Commando healing, no one can really burst heal anymore. The pendulum has really swung from healer-centric to DPS-centric.

 

I think that if the game had to be unbalanced in one direction, its better for damage > healing than vice versa. Healing slogfests really suck. The problem with the balance is not that there is too much damage, its that all the damage essentially comes from only 2 of the 8 classes: Sentinels and Commandos.

 

Ideally, I think Sent/Comm should be nerfed a bit - maybe 10% damage nerf to Force Sweep, and a 20% nerf to Demolition Round and Master Strike. Then bring up the other classes to about the same level. Vanguards don't need too much of a boost, but Scoundrels need serious help. The other classes are somewhere in between.

[LilTsar]

yep, ive gone back to sawbones. even if scrapper isnt 'broken' per se its just not as much fun. off-topic, i saw that the presumptuous imp dooshes have already adjusted to 1.2. rolled a warrior, and of course when i got to fleet, in between the 3 peeps going 'dps lfg hm', was 'lf operative heals kp hm then g2g!!!'. had to laugh.

[Daiyukie]

You cant really burst-heal. You can put out some good HPS if you have SRMPx2 rolling on a target and spam UWM+EMP but getting those things going requires some setup time. If you can see the damage coming, you can keep a target up for a bit, but trying to switch and save someone who is being burst is not possible.

 

That said, with nerfs to Sage and Commando healing, no one can really burst heal anymore. The pendulum has really swung from healer-centric to DPS-centric.

 

I think that if the game had to be unbalanced in one direction, its better for damage > healing than vice versa. Healing slogfests really suck. The problem with the balance is not that there is too much damage, its that all the damage essentially comes from only 2 of the 8 classes: Sentinels and Commandos.

 

Ideally, I think Sent/Comm should be nerfed a bit - maybe 10% damage nerf to Force Sweep, and a 20% nerf to Demolition Round and Master Strike. Then bring up the other classes to about the same level. Vanguards don't need too much of a boost, but Scoundrels need serious help. The other classes are somewhere in between.

 

Yeah, that's what I figured (the part about burst healing) and I agree on the healing front. All the Warzones I played so far in 1.2 we've had at least 2 healers on my team, and more often 3 or even more. After the update was the first time I've seen a sub-50 Voidstar go nowhere, as in both teams defended first door until timer out because of all the healing. While it was fun for me because of all the uptime, I don't think the DPS really liked seeing no one ever die. The burst healing thought came from that game too, since on defense there was always one guy on my team who would just stand by the door and get focused by the Imps and I couldn't keep him up for more than 10-15 seconds, if that. The rest of our team was holding the middle portion, in between doors, and just denying plants to either side, because you can LOS very nicely with all the obstacles in the middle, whilst the Imps were using the pillars near the wall and the heal powerups. It looked like a proper battle, two entrenched sides with missiles and lasers flying.

 

I'm getting a little off-subject, because I thought the game was awesome, but me and my two guildmates talked a bit about that game and I remarked that it ironic that keeping people alive so well on offense was counter-productive, because it was just a never-ending slugfest by the door with no opportunity to cap. I'm not sure what can change in Voidstar, but -something- has to, because me doing my job too well as a healer is detrimental? Does not compute, but I was literally told "Pick one or two guys to help instead of keeping everyone up." Oh well, I switched to a nice Hybrid build anyway so that I'm stronger solo but not as good at keeping a team up, since I did find the burst heals lacking even if I went nuts with something like pre-emptive SRMs, Kolto-EMP, UWM-EMP, UWM-Kolto-EMP. You'd think that kind of all-out heals would be enough, but I can't exactly tell how much damage was incoming either.

 

Actually, a change to Voidstar I'd love to see would be a tug-of-war type thing, where the same mechanics are in place, but the spawn points don't change and the distances are shortened a little maybe. That way not dying is actually important and rewarded, but so is the ability to dish out damage. I read somewhere else about the doors having HP instead of needing to get off a plant, since it's ridiculously easy to stop anyone planting; that could work well, because if you don't have enough DPS to overcome the door's defenses, you're not going to get anywhere. What I mean by Tug-of-War though, is that both teams are on offense and defense simultaneously, and pushing through the enemy while limiting your casualties would mean the difference between getting to the final objective and being pushed back.

 

TL;DR - I agree that having healing overpower damage is no fun in the long run, but it also seems like gametypes don't reward out-damaging the enemy. Changing Voidstar in particular would be a very welcome change, making it a Tug-of-War rather than a "hide by the door and shoot anyone who tries to plant" gametype. The rest of the post is lots of bla-bla about my personal experience with healing.

[Kaijan]

I'm Rollin around in a Medic/Conceal hybrid (Saw/scrap) at the moment that is amazingly fun. I roll with a Maurader and we go to town on mass groups. Good but not the best damage with awesome healing means I can assist him in any capacity we need.

[Catalan]

Still running full Scrapper, but have really put my Scoundrel on-hold PvP-wise, it's just not fun anymore.

 

He's now just a crafting bot, the only other thing I am doing is running Belsavis dailies to get Rakata pieces for my alts. So silly that they nerfed the Imperial ability to solo their Belsavis dailies, but still let us stealth our ones.....

[Aetou]

I've swapped to full Sawbones for now. It's pretty decent but I'm finding that against a good team who know to keep UWM almost permanently interrupted and locked out it is quite hard to do a lot of sustained healing. They really need to make KP kind of useful (lose the UH requirement, pretty please) and then I'd be very happy.

[RAVIAH]

sadly i went sawbones myself. at one point scrapper was my favorite spec that i've play in any game. swg, wow, etc. but sadly the increased cd on backblast made the rotation very annoying and boring even more so than healing (which i decided i would not heal cause i found healing in wow very boring) though tbh i'm really liking the heal style of scoundrel with the fact that you have several heals that you can do while moving.

[teambff]

i see that most of the people who responded went over to sawbones to try that, has anyone tried dirty fighting? maybe some kind of dirty fighting/scrapper hybrid where you use shrap bomb or something instead of back blast? i'd hate not having "ko" (as it's pretty high up in the scrapper tree) i love knocking people down with my shoot first. especially into the fire in huttball, but... maybe adding a few skills from dirty fighting with scrapper's punching could be interesting, i may try that. dunno. i'm very hesitant to try healing again because of how frustrating it is to heal now, especially without burst, how can one keep up with the crazy damage being put out?

 

i hope someone can come up with some type of new hybrid or something that can be fun again, cuz i really liked my scrapper.

Edited April 14, 2012 by teambff

[jedijinchu]

I roll scrapper since day one cuz I love the burst n I'm not into healing, probably y I don't get invite to much groups. So far I'm lvl 49 n I don't PVP much at all. My rotation has to be tool around to account for the fact that vital shot only give extra damage to only sucker punch and flying fist. I'm not sure whether I should put KO in my skill list since i never use it. I find myself spamming blaster whip n sucker punch into I can get dirty kick to do backblast. If anyone can give insight to their rotation that would help.

[teambff]

I roll scrapper since day one cuz I love the burst n I'm not into healing, probably y I don't get invite to much groups. So far I'm lvl 49 n I don't PVP much at all. My rotation has to be tool around to account for the fact that vital shot only give extra damage to only sucker punch and flying fist. I'm not sure whether I should put KO in my skill list since i never use it. I find myself spamming blaster whip n sucker punch into I can get dirty kick to do backblast. If anyone can give insight to their rotation that would help.

 

for pve levelling, i pretty much steamrolled through everything up to 46.. especially after i got gus on hoth.

 

assuming it's an elite enemy or strong:

i normally open with a shoot first flachette round ko, vital shot them on the ground.. back blast as they're getting up, pistol whip, pugnacity, punches, flurry of bolts, pistol whip, vital shot, punches, from there i'd basically keep vital shot up, keep pugnacity up (with it's heal/energy tick), punch/flurry of bolts in between, if it uses alot of skills i'll keep interrupts going (using flachette round back blast/cheap shot on the stuns) on the important ones with dirty kick/flash bomb/distract. also using defense screen/dodge on cooldown.

 

i found flurry of bolts pretty underrated, keeping vital shots up/flurry of bolts as my basis to keep energy flowing (not just burning all my energy in one quick burst) and then throwing in needed skills here and there, constant interrupts, i can easily last through long elite mob fights.

 

worked for me very well as i levelled. rarely, if ever had any real problems.

fire mobs always are the expection for me it seems. they usually give me some problem on any class i play. or if it's alot of mobs (like 5+)... but i'll usually thin them out by using a disappearing act and cc.

Edited April 14, 2012 by teambff

[Hopsinwhat]

Well I'm still playing scrapper...only lvl 25 atm. I tried PvP but I can hardly survive the burst from other classes, so I mainly do missions now. At least until I get some more defensive CDs. I think this will be my first class to 50. The style of combat is just so much fun, I think its the shotgun to the back that I love the most.

[hulkweazel]

Full Sawbones because my guild would rather have any other DPS than Scoundrel DPS.

 

I really don't mind healing but it's unfortunate that we're forced into healing now to be viable.

[GunnerB]

Full sawbones

[jedijinchu]

Full Sawbones because my guild would rather have any other DPS than Scoundrel DPS.

 

I really don't mind healing but it's unfortunate that we're forced into healing now to be viable.

 

I have the same thoughts now tht I am aproaching 50 is to at least give up being a full scrapper n go for a hybrid or even full sawbones cuz I would like to do operations n fps but dont think a full scrapper brings anything to the table to help out. Once I finish story mode what's next is my question?

[Daiyukie]

I don't think you really need to go full Sawbones, I ran another bunch of Warzones last night with my Hybrid and was getting 100k+ damage with ~250k heals, which is right around what I expected the numbers to be. The important part is being able to help burst someone either at the beginning or end of a fight, or both, with healing in between and after. I like it, and you can kind of do the same as full Sawbones, you just don't really have any kick.

[Powderhorn]

I had been rolling as a full scrapper ever since my server went up in December, and eaten every nerf along the way. This patch was the last straw, I had to get more damage out, and I was running out of cooldowns to use in my rotation.

 

I ended up doing a 20/21 scrapper / dirty fighter mix, and, admittedly, I feel like it may not be so terrible. I still have a little burst left, and I have more sustained damage through my dots. Also of note, my energy management isn't quite so stifling now, since I have pugnacity boosted up so much.

 

In the end though, I think I'm just waiting to see what the next month brings. I'm still debating if I want to keep my subscription up.

[Iboga]

I'm still picking on undergeared/half-dead/incompetent players myself... it's basically our only niche... it's working out ok... but PvP isn't really much fun anymore, I've been mainly playing my Shadow alt and having ridiculous amounts of fun!

[VoXPCS]

Excellent, scoundrels are useless except for healing and even then they're 2nd or 3rd best. Can the OP just change the title so we can get this stickied and save people days of their lives wasted on this class?

 

How awful, I want my 6 days back to put towards FailWare's favorite class of all.

[Daiyukie]

I'm still picking on undergeared/half-dead/incompetent players myself... it's basically our only niche... it's working out ok... but PvP isn't really much fun anymore, I've been mainly playing my Shadow alt and having ridiculous amounts of fun!

 

Yeah, I have a level 5 Shadow, but I don't think I can bring myself to grind all the way to 50 after gearing/leveling 2 characters. I gave up on my original Sith Warrior because it was simply no fun to play for some reason, I didn't feel tanky and had **** damage, but the Shadow is admittedly pretty fun in the below-10 bracket =p Throwing huge rocks is surprisingly good tactics over swinging your saber.

[YTPeregrine]

I'm still running around with 31 points in scrapper, and I'll probably never change, lol. I'm terrible at PvP to begin with, so I haven't really noticed the changes.

 

In the WZ's I'll usually hang around the fringes of the battle and swoop in all stealth-like to unload on someone who's down to about half their health. That, or being an objective ninja on the Voidstar.

[Daiyukie]

I'm still running around with 31 points in scrapper, and I'll probably never change, lol. I'm terrible at PvP to begin with, so I haven't really noticed the changes.

 

In the WZ's I'll usually hang around the fringes of the battle and swoop in all stealth-like to unload on someone who's down to about half their health. That, or being an objective ninja on the Voidstar.

 

That's far more useful than opening up on anyone who's at full health and getting killed for it. Stealthers especially on Voidstar need to be more objective-minded. We're especially perfect for sneaking over to the second (farther) barrier controls in the last room and going to get a plant off while the fight rages on at the first set of controls. Same idea on the bridge, but not as easy to do.

[TheSchwanz]

still scrapping. though it takes some getting used to. the 12sec CD on backblast is manageable, but the reduced dmg to sucker punch sucks

[ModernCrusader]

Still a scrapper and not seeing any problems. Then again, I call myself a scrapper but I'm specced in a variety of different things, not any one path. It's not conventional by any means and I don't even know how to describe what I am, but it works pretty darn well. I basically just take a potpourri of everything and combine it all together. But if we're talking PvP, I don't really know much.