jhynnifer Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) So I was the optimistic one while everyone was screaming the sky was falling with 1.2. I thought I would test it and see how it worked out. Welp... it really doesn't work. This is the basic reason why. First off, you created a trauma debuff which is a 30% nerf to any heal cast in combat in a warzone and on Ilum. Ok we learned to adjust to this and we were doing alright. Then you come back and you make a bunch of changes to the healing classes themselves because they are considered "OP." Mind you, you do not address the issues the players are complaining about, only the ones you believe are unbalanced. My assumption is you're balancing for pvp and not pve. Still, this and trauma we could probably handle. Now... as if that isn't enough, you tweak the formulas for expertiese damage boost, reduction and healing in such a way that the amount of healing you get from expertise is HALF What it is for damage. What this effectively means is that you've made it so everyone is doing MORE damage but healers are healing for less. So now we're unable to out heal damage with any kind of consistency. If you want healers to go hybrid dps or pure dps for warzones, then why don't you do us all a favor and let us know so we can stop collectively banging our heads against a wall. You've taken healing classes that were fun to play in warzones and basically made it painful and frustrating to queue up. Now, being the hopeful little optimist that I am I'm going to really hope this (like your inability to patch correctly) is a mistake and that you'll be fixing it shortly. But I'd absolutely love a little head's up that you're at least looking into it? Edited April 13, 2012 by jhynnifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuriZap Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 /signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipkaee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Do people realize if they that the 30% reduction is not really a big deal. If BW wanted to they could leave healing the same and increase damage scaling and health the same amount and it would have the same effect? They wouldn't even need a buff to do these they could just program it into the item scaling. Also what does it matter if we have a 30% healing reduction than others who are in pve? If PVE didn't exist no one would talk about a 30% healing reduction because that would be our new basis. We don't play against PVE's metrics in PVP, we play against others PVPers, so any nerfs to PVP are nerfs applied to both teams. Also before this patch our heals greatly outshined damage. The expertise adjustment was so that healers could not survive 3v1s, but that they still could operate and function in 1v1's and do moderately well in 2v1s. Edited April 13, 2012 by Tipkaee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithran Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Playing a Sorcerer, where you have four opponents camping you, you really need a dedicated party who's accustomed to playing together or you'll just be making the run from the respawn zone to combat for the duration of the pvp match. That's my experience in Queue Solo parties, anyway. Once I was at 50, my first match showed that they'll still camp me with everyone else too preoccupied to pay attention and my heals (the big ones) did about 5%. Well, I abandoned the healer and rolled an assassin. I'm having a lot more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhynnifer Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Do people realize if they that the 30% reduction is not really a big deal. If BW wanted to they could leave healing the same and increase damage scaling and health the same amount and it would have the same effect? They wouldn't even need a buff to do these they could just program it into the item scaling. Also what does it matter if we have a 30% healing reduction than others who are in pve? If PVE didn't exist no one would talk about a 30% healing reduction because that would be our new basis. We don't play against PVE's metrics in PVP, we play against others PVPers, so any nerfs to PVP are nerfs applied to both teams. What you are clearly missing is the end of the post. The trauma buff, as I even stated, was not a big deal... we adjust. You take that, you throw another 3%-5% nerf into commando/merc healing... AND THEN... this is the part you need to read... they throw another 10% less healing vs the damage going out. Haven't you noticed everyone's hitting harder than they were two days ago? Significantly harder? Also before this patch our heals greatly outshined damage. The expertise adjustment was so that healers could not survive 3v1s, but that they still could operate and function in 1v1's and do moderately well in 2v1s. Oh and about that... no. If BW was balancing classes for dueling that would be one thing. They're not balancing your healing so you can effective in 1v1 or 2v1. Edited April 13, 2012 by jhynnifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhynnifer Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Playing a Sorcerer, where you have four opponents camping you, you really need a dedicated party who's accustomed to playing together or you'll just be making the run from the respawn zone to combat for the duration of the pvp match. That's my experience in Queue Solo parties, anyway. Once I was at 50, my first match showed that they'll still camp me with everyone else too preoccupied to pay attention and my heals (the big ones) did about 5%. Well, I abandoned the healer and rolled an assassin. I'm having a lot more fun. I swapped to my sorc healer last night when I started getting mauled through my BH shield. If you hybrid spec so you get the knockback root, pvping as a sorc isn't all that bad and can be fun (via running around and rooting people to the collective "QQ" harmonizing with your "TROLOLOLOL." But yea, having a group helps, but not enough IMO. Edited April 13, 2012 by jhynnifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scramilton Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I agree with OP. This especially sucks for sorcs. They get hammered now, having light armor, and can barely get a heal off. I guess people were complaining that it's too hard to kill people with healers around, but I thought it was pretty well-balanced before. The only good thing you can say now is that combat feels more fast-paced. People die faster so it may force you to use more strategy. If you want us all to be DPS classes, just get rid of healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuriZap Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Do people realize if they that the 30% reduction is not really a big deal. If BW wanted to they could leave healing the same and increase damage scaling and health the same amount and it would have the same effect? They wouldn't even need a buff to do these they could just program it into the item scaling. Also what does it matter if we have a 30% healing reduction than others who are in pve? If PVE didn't exist no one would talk about a 30% healing reduction because that would be our new basis. We don't play against PVE's metrics in PVP, we play against others PVPers, so any nerfs to PVP are nerfs applied to both teams. Also before this patch our heals greatly outshined damage. The expertise adjustment was so that healers could not survive 3v1s, but that they still could operate and function in 1v1's and do moderately well in 2v1s. 30% is quite a big slice dude, no matter how hard you try to neglect it. 30% will be 30% no matter what. Saying 30% of anything isn't a big deal, is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 My friends and I did Lost Island Normal Mode its way harder than previous flash points with alot of healing power needed...my friend moaned for weeks over the changes to healers and you know what...she did just fine..she did accidently kill herself once but we did fine. Learn to manage your use of heals on various party members and even with the med pack change..guess what you'll do fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhynnifer Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 My friends and I did Lost Island Normal Mode its way harder than previous flash points with alot of healing power needed...my friend moaned for weeks over the changes to healers and you know what...she did just fine..she did accidently kill herself once but we did fine. Learn to manage your use of heals on various party members and even with the med pack change..guess what you'll do fine. I healed a Lost Island Hard Mode last night with a few adjustments. This isn't a PVE thread. My God... did you even bother reading the post before you added your 2 cents? I don't think even the title has anything to do with PVE unless you stopped at the word "healing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craiss Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I still see some healers (especially the heavy armor healers) being able to survive a long time simply sustaining themselves. If a penalty for healing didn't exist in pvp they wouldn't ever die in a 1v1 format, ever. For a lot of casual pvp players this generally means 1 healer can survive vs 2 dps fine and dandy. I am definitely not fabricating this out of my hiney, some healers (atleast in full BM gear) before and still CURRENTLY know what they are doing and can survive like champs, effectively wasting your DPS's time. Also... Remind me why in PvP a healer should be a brick wall? Isn't that what a tank is supposed to be? (This is why they have tanks in PvP have the ability "guard", have a tank friend "guard" you and you will be much more chipper about things as a healer... especially if you aren't 110% baller as a few healers are already) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexenOnone Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sorc healers are still putting up 300-400k healing. if this is bad i would hate to try to live up to your expectations Commando/BH heals are still gonna outheal damge in a 1vs1 It's fine, quit complaining. And the post abotu going hybrid on a sorc is a good one. The knockback root is great, and how often do you really use your aoe heal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindara Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I healed a Lost Island Hard Mode last night with a few adjustments. This isn't a PVE thread. My God... did you even bother reading the post before you added your 2 cents? I don't think even the title has anything to do with PVE unless you stopped at the word "healing." Then perhaps it should be in oh I dont know the PVP forums. Its in a General Forum so I can speak about healin anyway I want. Healing is still viable in PVP only people with no self control or ability to work with others are going to feel any sort of hurt. So insult yourself by kicking yourself in the rear end if you dont want general discussion on a topic then don't POST in General Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSith Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I agree! No love for the healers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsarionRDM Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Then perhaps it should be in oh I dont know the PVP forums. Its in a General Forum so I can speak about healin anyway I want. Healing is still viable in PVP only people with no self control or ability to work with others are going to feel any sort of hurt. So insult yourself by kicking yourself in the rear end if you dont want general discussion on a topic then don't POST in General I didn't realize General Forum is only for PvE discussions. How silly of the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhynnifer Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Then perhaps it should be in oh I dont know the PVP forums. Its in a General Forum so I can speak about healin anyway I want. Healing is still viable in PVP only people with no self control or ability to work with others are going to feel any sort of hurt. So insult yourself by kicking yourself in the rear end if you dont want general discussion on a topic then don't POST in General LOL, I love general PVP discussion about a PVP thread. You go ahead and keep making excuses for why you felt the need to drool PVE all over a PVP thread, sunshine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aysee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 as a marauder, sorcs and bh healers and their counterparts were pretty easy to kill 1v1. only healer ive had troubles (actually 0 success) soloing were the ops/scoundrels due to hots and cleanses. but then again you guys do have more utility and apparently much better in pve than operatives/scoundrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhynnifer Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sorc healers are still putting up 300-400k healing. if this is bad i would hate to try to live up to your expectations Right... the numbers are still good, but look at the damage going out. Where 300k-400k might have countered I don't know 40% of the damage that went out, its now countering about 20%. Yes, the numbers are skewed, I didn't write them all down before the oops-patch. =( And yeah... aside from some instances in voidstar and now and again in alderaan... knockback root is waaaay more useful than healing circles in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhynnifer Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 as a marauder, sorcs and bh healers and their counterparts were pretty easy to kill 1v1. only healer ive had troubles (actually 0 success) soloing were the ops/scoundrels due to hots and cleanses. but then again you guys do have more utility and apparently much better in pve than operatives/scoundrels. Try and save your cooldowns and craziness for when they're under 50% that's when healing ops/soundrels are the hardest to kill. And as for pve, I run with an ops healer as my sidekick in 8mans and even before the patch I absolutely loved healing with him. Yeah, it made Soa a bit more of a pita, but he was pretty awesome. I can't wait to see him now. =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSPD Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Playing a Sorcerer, where you have four opponents camping you, you really need a dedicated party who's accustomed to playing together or you'll just be making the run from the respawn zone to combat for the duration of the pvp match. That's my experience in Queue Solo parties, anyway. Once I was at 50, my first match showed that they'll still camp me with everyone else too preoccupied to pay attention and my heals (the big ones) did about 5%. Well, I abandoned the healer and rolled an assassin. I'm having a lot more fun. ^Sorcerers are pretty much unplayable now. The balancing seems worse than ever. Survivability is non existent. It's just not fun. For those that say "if it's not fun then don't play" - my sub ends on the 18th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexenOnone Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 ^Sorcerers are pretty much unplayable now. The balancing seems worse than ever. Survivability is non existent. It's just not fun. For those that say "if it's not fun then don't play" - my sub ends on the 18th. Unplayable is a bit dramatic. My sorc was full heal speced before 1.2. I specced into a heal/lightning build after 1.2 and have done just fine, putting up decent healing and pleanty of damage. I agree survivability is a bit low, but if you want to live forever roll a tank and pay a pocket healer. Dieing is part of PVP, especially if the other team has marauders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithran Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sorc healers are still putting up 300-400k healing. if this is bad i would hate to try to live up to your expectations Commando/BH heals are still gonna outheal damge in a 1vs1 It's fine, quit complaining. And the post abotu going hybrid on a sorc is a good one. The knockback root is great, and how often do you really use your aoe heal? That's the sorc who goes to the abandoned area and spam heals himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhynnifer Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 ^Sorcerers are pretty much unplayable now. The balancing seems worse than ever. Survivability is non existent. It's just not fun. For those that say "if it's not fun then don't play" - my sub ends on the 18th. Before your sub ends... really try going a hybrid spec.. play around with a 28/13 spec. Go up the lightning tree until you can take electric bindings. You'll lose your healing circle, but your ability to not only knock those pesky melee away from you, but to also root them while you run away chortling is actually quite fun. Yes, you're still very squishy, but you can at least die laughing while that rooted gunslinger/sniper snipes your face off while rooted behind his cover of OMG FACE DECIMATE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexenOnone Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 That's the sorc who goes to the abandoned area and spam heals himself. Nope, cause i refuse to do that. Well unless its civil war and i get stuck watchign a turret. Gotta get my medals brah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aysee Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 jhynnifer vs kindara /popcorn im abit suprised that they didnt equalize damage, mitigation and healing for expertise. as a pvper im already happy with the better scaling of expertise. killing healers with less effort is a bonus tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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