A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[Syylara]

Wrong.

8 dps working together like the 8 healers in your fiction scenario would kill a target in a single GCD cycle. You can't heal through damage that happens that fast even if you had 100 healers.

 

Sorry, you fail.

 

Not to mention this theoretical 8 healers group would only be sensible in some kind of death-match scenario.

 

The second objectives come into play, 8 healers is a bad idea. They would have such low damage output they couldn't possibly clear the enemy team out before respawn to take a point.

 

Most PUG games having even 3 or more healers is a bad omen, I've found.

[DarthKhaos]

healers were greatly overpowered pre 1.2

 

no wonder you enjoyed it. Now admittedly they are overnerfed.

 

Somewhere in between would have been a better solution.

I said this earlier in the thread. Some tweaking of the numbers are in order. As much as they don't want to admit it they were insanely powerful pre 1.2 being the one to guard a healer and having the 2 of us hold off 5 players no sweat is a bit much.

[pathiss]

See the problem with statements like yours is that they group all the healing classes together even though it isn't applicable to all healing classes.

 

What you said was true for an operative or merc healer with guard because they handle interrupts fairly well. On the other hand, what you said was completely false for sorcerer healers. If that many people couldn't keep a sorcerer interrupted, its because they failed at being even semi competent players and not because the sorc was OP.

[Mirdthestrill]

Someone a couple pages back made a good point...the point of healers is to heal. Basically, you told us "You can't heal anymore. You can only delay death. That is now your point in life." It is, honestly, like telling a DPS "You can't damage people anymore. All you can do is get them down to low health and then you'll die." Or telling a tank "You're not allowed to hold aggro anymore. All you can do is hold it for a little while, then all the enemies will go into a frenzy and massacre the group." It's not just that we got nerfed. It's that they changed our entire purpose.

[EbonFade]

For the 50th time. Its not about healing! Our healing output is fine. I neither feel overpowered or underpowered at this point. For the most part, I think our healing per second is close to where it should be (maybe a percent or two here and there)

 

What is overpowered, is the TTK of certain (not all) dps classes against any other class (not just healers, but for instance dps on a tank).

 

It's not ok for Maruaders to output 18k in 4 global cool downs. It's not ok for Mercs to hit 8-9k grav rounds. Its not ok that my healer's ranged white damage is on the order of 1.8k.

 

This is the problem! Not what a healer can or can't do!

[RJChief]

I see some decent points on both sides. Someone very early in this thread pinned the issue directly.

 

Healers got triple nerfed; heals lowered, cast times increased, dps output increased.

 

No one on the dev team apparently thought about the sweeping changes they were piling on top of eachother. Would it have been too much to ask to test the waters before the cannon ball? Couldn't we have had this patch rolled in over 3 weeks to see the impact of such drastic changes? Healing is still possible post 1.2 but it requires a drastically different mindset and ability play --> most of us (i'll include myself) haven't figured out the bumps yet. This patch was forced on us in one big smelly pile of ****.

 

My biggest problem (as Sage): NOBEL SACRIFICE! Was that nerf really necessary given all the other changes? To clear things up they should have changed the name from NOBEL SACRIFICE to just ... well, SACRIFICE.

"Oh, your running out of force? Well you can let the dpser kill you and respawn or you can go ahead and kill yourself and respawn" Nobel Sacrifice is now strictly a PvE skill regardless of any talent points used to buff it and regardless of any set bonus from PvP gear.

[Darth-Malkaevian]

You do realize wow came out November 23, 2004 right? I can see why you thought healing was broke before 1.2.

 

Actually WoW has been out 10 years if you were a beta tester. And their slogan says "10 years". Do your research.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Darth-Malkaevian

[Darth-Malkaevian]

Not quite accurate. That statement would be accurate for my mercenary across the board, but wouldnt have been accurate for my sorcerer. The only time my sorcerer healing was OP was against people that let me stand around free casting because they didnt know how to interrupt. My operative healer had a good mix of survivability and healing output and was fairly balanced.

 

Post 1.2 a sorcerer is completely non-viable as a healer unless fighting completely and utter idiots the both ignore you and never interrupt you. My operative feels slightly over powered now due to the buffs, and my merc would feel about right post nerf if it wasnt for the across the board change in TTK causing -everything- to die faster.

 

Actually, My guilds main healer is Shockica, who is a Sith sorcerer, and they do an outstanding job of it, My Guild is "Ghost" on Jung-Ma. If Shockica is healing in a warzone for us, we never loose, and very few people die.

 

Maybe you should move to my server and join the guild and have Shock teach you a thing or 2.

[Darth-Malkaevian]

You are assuming players actually do their jobs, though. Bioware cannot make changes solely on the basis that they think it will promote more teamwork and coordination. It will not. I have seen both good and bad players completely ignore their job in favor of more medals or DPS numbers. Even the worst players hate looking bad on the scoreboards. Bioware cannot and should not assume that players will always have the means to be with someone who will do the correct kind of support.

 

Once again, I reiterate that this should not be the case when there are various DPS attacking that healer. My plight and that of every other healer in this topic is that it has become a real chore to survive in general. With a guard, without one. I've seen some of the worst players in my server steamroll me without so much as one interrupt. I find it disgusting that damage output overrules skill now.

 

1. A DPS class is what you would refer to as a "solo" class, meaning it can and will do its job without support.

 

2. A healer is a "Team" Class, meaning without a team a "healer" is not a "healer" because they have no one to heal.

 

**** This being the case a healer should die to a DPS. Because without a Team, a healer is useless and is supposed to be such, they are NOT meant to be able to self heal and tank anything and everything better then any other class by themselves.

 

** They are meant to support, save, and heal their team mates. When in a Team.

 

Your logic is flawed, as you are trying to compare a class with a totally different function and purpose and which is meant to be played "solo" (DPS) to a Class which is NOT meant to be played solo and is meant to be used in a "team".

 

Before 1.2 a Healer could do anything and everything by themselves without help, without assistance. (I soloed heroic areas 5 levels above me FYI before 1.2) Generally speaking no other class could solo a heroic by themselves at "their" level, let alone one 5 levels higher them them.

 

Bioware did not make a game so healers could be the end all be all class and do everything. Bioware designed healers NOT for solo play but for "Support".

 

*** Post 1.2 you as a Healer are REQUIRED to have a team supporting you, so that you can heal them. this is how a healer is supposed to function.

 

Please remember that healers are "TEAM" classes and are designed and Meant to be played in a "TEAM" environment.

 

Please Remember that DPS is a "SOLO" class and while being able to be used in a team is meant for "SOLO" play.

 

You logic that "If DPS can do their job (Which is deal damage) why Can't healers survive, the damage they deal with no support is flawed, due to this fact. If healers were meant to be played solo as DPS are they would be able to pump out decent dps. Obviously since they deal practically no damage when geared correctly and speced right this should tell you that alone you are not "meant" to play "alone" and therefore can not be compared to a class which IS in fact meant to be played SOLO.

 

"Healing" defines an action towards another by definition, NOT towards the self. (Even though you can "Heal" yourself) this is not what the verb name refers to. A healer is an individual who heals others by definition.

 

This is why a DPS should be able to kill a healer solo and very very easily. And why a healer should NOT under any circumstance be able to do a damn thing about it without a "team" to support them.

 

 

Your post is your opinion, your welcome to it, but it wont change what type of class and category of class a healer is and how they are meant to be played. Which unfortunately for you if your a healer, is NOT solo.

 

So yes in a warzone which is a Team environment if your team is not skilled or coordinated enough to protect you AND complete the game objective, expect to die and die fast. This is not Biowares fault, this is your teams fault. 1.2 fixed the Godmode for healers and rebalanced them so that they do EXACTLY what they are supposed to do. Rather then being the end all be all of every class + Godmode.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Darth-Malkaevian

[nakoda]

Pre 1.2 my corruption sorc was a force to be reckoned with.

 

I am playing a video game that puts me in the shoes of a Sith...so that made sense.

 

As Jason Lee might say, "I'm a f%#!ng Sith!"

 

I am not disagreeing with the nerfs, we *were* OP.

 

I no longer feel like a force to be reckoned with, however.

 

Everyone playing this game should feel like a force to be reckoned with.

[Khoraji]

Pre 1.2 my corruption sorc was a force to be reckoned with.

 

I am playing a video game that puts me in the shoes of a Sith...so that made sense.

 

As Jason Lee might say, "I'm a f%#!ng Sith!"

 

I am not disagreeing with the nerfs, we *were* OP.

 

I no longer feel like a force to be reckoned with, however.

 

Everyone playing this game should feel like a force to be reckoned with.

 

A quote comes to mind... "If everyone is special, then no one is"

Edited April 19, 2012 by Khoraji

[nakoda]

"Healing" defines an action towards another by definition, NOT towards the self. (Even though you can "Heal" yourself) this is not what the verb name refers to. A healer is an individual who heals others by definition.

 

can you plx espalin fur the sloe how DPS is not "an action towards another by definition"?

[nakoda]

A quote comes to mind... "If everyone is special, then no one is"

 

That is the point. Why else would the classes be mirrored across factions?

[RJChief]

1. A DPS class is what you would refer to as a "solo" class, meaning it can and will do its job without support.

 

2. A healer is a "Team" Class, meaning without a team a "healer" is not a "healer" because they have no one to heal.

 

This is why a DPS should be able to kill a healer solo and very very easily. And why a healer should NOT under any circumstance be able to do a damn thing about it without a "team" to support them.

 

 

I just LOL'ed... need fresh pants.

 

I understand the frustration of dps'ers pre 1.2, but, come on... If were going to be realistic, lets be realistic. I could bring up the name MMO and argue that there is no such thing as a solo class, but I wont. I understand the point you are trying to make.

 

Where is the motivation? Saying 1 healer shouldn't be able to handle (by that I mean survive) 1 dps'er is like saying a tank shouldn't be able to handle a raid boss.

 

Healers and DPS'ers can work the same (solo vs team by your words) when taken in greater context. Why can't a healer widdle you down with a lightsaber (I'm just assuming a force user here... bear with me guys) while keeping himself alive? Is a DPS'er really a solo class against 3 or 4 people, or does he also need that healer?

 

Basically what your brightly colored words suggest:: Your a healer? *** were you thinking?

 

Food For Thought.

Edited April 19, 2012 by RJChief

[Drayoc]

Someone ask this guy how hard Drizzle hits him and ask him if he preferred me as a healer or dps. I'm sure you've run across me and my brother Forbes and been melted a number of times in the last week.

 

Yes I know both you and Forbes. I haven't played on my Sage (Drey) very much since the update so I don't think I've run across you since you've spec'd DPS. However I do remember playing against you as a healer and you were formidable, but when I would finally get my team to pay attention and focus fire you, you would go down.

 

I'm not sure if this was you or not Drizzle, but I remember one match of Alderaan Civil War where I was guarding our left turret and you came over and me and you got in a death match for at least 5 minutes and it basically turned into a wet noodle fight until others came...lol I was on "Drey".

Edited April 19, 2012 by Drayoc

[JustTray]

Yes I know bot you and Forbes. I haven't played on my Sage (Drey) very much since the update so I don't think I've run across you since you've spec'd DPS. However I do remember playing against you as a healer and you were formidable, but when I would finally get my team to pay attention and focus fire you, you would go down.

 

I'm not sure if this was you or not Drizzle, but I remember one match of Alderaan Civil War where I was guarding our left turret and you came over and me and you got in a death match for at least 5 minutes and it basically turned into a wet noodle fight until others came...lol I was on "Drey".

 

Haha ya I don't think I've run across you this patch yet. Now that HSM doesn't double stack it might not be as ridiculous but the last few days Forbes and I have been crushing pub premades regularly. Real sad that their healers just don't make a difference. Countless Warzones now where healer teams are losing to non healer teams.

 

Anyway I'll look out for you now Drey, and good luck man!

[Safgril]

Haha ya I don't think I've run across you this patch yet. Now that HSM doesn't double stack it might not be as ridiculous but the last few days Forbes and I have been crushing pub premades regularly. Real sad that their healers just don't make a difference. Countless Warzones now where healer teams are losing to non healer teams.

 

Anyway I'll look out for you now Drey, and good luck man!

 

this is what i have been saying alll along....

 

people are getting confused on how well they are doing is not because of the class or how good they are but simply the team they are playing...

 

against a good premade... and good players a healer doesnt stand a chance now

[mikegr]

**** This being the case a healer should die to a DPS. Because without a Team, a healer is useless and is supposed to be such, they are NOT meant to be able to self heal and tank anything and everything better then any other class by themselves.

 

I have never seen an mmo classify their healers that way. If they did, I'm sure it would be the end of the game in short order because nobody would ever play a healer. It seems that after 1.2 this is the case, however, I would really like to hear an explanation of the class from BW directly.

[Wesgile]

this is what i have been saying alll along....

 

people are getting confused on how well they are doing is not because of the class or how good they are but simply the team they are playing...

 

against a good premade... and good players a healer doesnt stand a chance now

good players makes sure their teams healer, which doesnt charge headlong and tries to tank all the enemies dps, do.

[Brightmist]

Healing requires skill and teamplay now, try it.

[mikegr]

Healing requires skill and teamplay now, try it.

 

Thanks, but I'd rather just go easy mode and play DPS! No skill, no tactics, just press a button and watch healers die!

 

Now that most of the skilled healers left or switched to DPS it will be a bloodbath for a while. Once all the new healers adjust and gain some gear and skill, there will be another round of nerfs because skilled healers will be more difficult to kill once again! It's a vicious cycle that just never ends well for the population of any mmo.

[MrPiiglesworth]

All you people saying healing requires teamwork, or I am not doing it right, you must live under a rock. I have a sage, and a commando healer. Both I loved healing at pre 1.2, then came the nerf. I should NOT die 1v1 against a dps. Why should I heal if I cannot even keep myself alive? There is no reason to heal anymore. The whole point of healing is to save lives. If I cannot save my own, I sure as hell cannot save another guy.

 

If my teammate is getting attacked by 1 guy, who has better gear than my teammate, as I heal him the odds are, he will die. This is stupid! I play WoW and SWTOR and healing in WoW is OP, but I was able to stay alive. I was also (as a rogue) able to down a healer 1v1. Killing healers is possible, unless you are a blind and deaf. I could 1v1 a healer down in SWTOR (pre 1.2) as a scoundrel as long as I used my interrupts right, and I gave kudos to people who killed my healer in 1v1.

 

I swear, all the dps crying "NERF!" on heals or telling me it was needed.... They are all a bunch of kids who only know the attacks you get at level 1, and have no idea what a cc is. If this continues, pvp healers will soon be a legend talked about acxross the interwebs... "LOL what? What was a healer?"

[Wickedjinx]

So many pages, well i'll add my own imput, as a sage healer, it's save your own butt then worry about other players to save. However, our suvivorbility is a tad bit silly and laughable w/o your own group of peelers+gaurd/taunt. With our changes to our biggest heal which is also our slowest, now we just sit there and look all fancy waving our hands w/o being useful. Again, great if you have a team with you, horrible if you are by yourself; you are pretty much just taking your chances.

 

I mean, I could just say that all healers (except you flaver of the month smug/op) should go DPS rather than heal since right now it's all about who can kill who fastest. But NO WAY, I still prefer to heal, I just wont pvp as much.

[kickinhead]

Healing requires skill and teamplay now, try it.

 

What about the CRAAAAZY notion that killing and/or interrupting/CCing/1-2-3-spiking healers before 1.2. required skill and teamplay?

 

There are also a few things wrong with healing, that have absolutely nothing to do with skill:

 

- While DD's can dish out 5K+ instantly, healers (besides Ops) have no halfway decent insta-burstheals that are somewhat reliable against 1-2-3-spikes

- The Bubble of the Sage scales disproportionately to the number of sages in a game, no other skill functions this way. This leads to the fact, that probably the best skill of the sage-healer and the only real way of dealing with spiked-DMG gets more and more useless if you have more than 1 Sage-Healer for every additional Sage in the team. And with DD-Sages often having the Stunbubble, you actually don't even need the bubble of the healer, leaving your team better off with 1-2 DPS/Support-Sages and no Fullheal-Sages at all.

- TTK is way too low now

- With such low respawn-timers, healing is often not necessary, cuz you actually don't need a long survivability, but just kill stuff fast, paired with the very low effectivity of most healers ni the current state of the game, healing is atm not really feasible.

- Interrupting Healers is easily possible, while the biggest DD's cannot be interrupted or use mostly instants.

Edited April 20, 2012 by kickinhead

[BambulaGTS]

I do not know what u are smoking with all that "I should not die 1 on 1 with DPS" if:

 

1. There are 2 classes (pre 1.2 - one class) with 1 specific anti-heal debuff (even pre 1.2 it was cleansable).

2. There are 3 classes (powertech, assasin, juggernaut) with specific anti-dps debuff - taunt.

3. There are 3 classes with specific anti-dps mechanics - guard.

4. There is specific global PvP anti-heal debuff - PvP trauma.

 

As your see when you engage in 1 on 1 fight with dps specific anti-dps mechanics/debuffs do not come into play, while specific anti-heal debuffs are present.

 

So if your statement "I should leave against 1 dps anyways" is correct it can mean:

 

1. DPS in swtor is so subpar against heals that can't overcome healing even crippled with PvP trauma and possible additional trauma for marauders and snipers (wanna be pure top DPS classes).

2. Your statemnet is wrong and it is not designed to so, but in the scenario when anti-heal defuffs countered by anti-dps debuffs and mechanics (e.g. outside iof 1 on 1 scenario) it can apply.