I know, but the one I quoted was talking about 1 vs 1 .... When there is a tank around healers should be harder to kill in warzones. So don't try to kill them, but keep them occupied and unable to cast their big heals on their team. Warzones are about winning objectives... Right? So if healer can't heal team well, team still dies and have more difficulty winning said objectives. I am sure there are other solutions to the "scoundrels are hard to kill" thing rather than nerf classes again to the point where they are absolete or they change to dps because they die instantly at showing up in a warzone. I stll remember when sages were nerfed that bad. That's when they got that "get some instant health back" button to even it out a bit again...

1 heal will completely recover them??? What skill is that? I know the sages have that skill, but I have not seen that skill on a scoundrel yet.... The only thing scoundrel have more than sages is instant heals that don't do an impressive lot of healing. It mostly is to top off... The emergency medpac maybe should have a tiny cd, but instant heals can't give them full health and the skills that can... They can be interrupted easily. And again... Why should a healer automatically be "easily killed" 1vs1? They can't kill you so easily.. So why should it be easy for you to kill them? In the long haul they might lose when they can't keep up in healing. But it should not be easy. If they are forced to use their "diagnostic scan" to get energy back... They are in troubke, because that gives barely any health. Ps I saw a sage healer defeat a scoundrel healer in a duel......

Ok I gotta ask... Why do people always cry for the healers to get nerved? They don't want to get healed? Are annoyed when their own healers have the audacity to survive getting hit? So the people crying here for nerves... They want to be able to kill enemy healers solo, because obviously healers (who can heal themselves!!) should be easily killed... Which means the healers healing them should also die easily... The solution therefor is simple. Everybody stop protecting your healers. Tanks stop guarding... Unprotected healers (even scoundrels and operatives) are easier killed that way. But then don't cry in warzones when you don't get healed because your healers spend their time being dead On a more serious note.. Sure scoudrels and operatives have survivability in that they can disappear... A skill that has the same CD as the barrier of the sage btw. They can kite and LOS. As can the sage and the commando. They have more movability than a sage with heals that are not immensely impressive. So how do you want them nerved? Should they not have escapes, like the shadow or assassin or sage and sorcerers? They can't forcepush... Can't pull a friendly or an enemy... Can't jump... Why should they not have something else to offset those skills? They can roll... Which is the ony skill I can see as being slightly op, especially in huttball... Point being ... Each class has some skill or skills that can make them annoying or harder to kill... If played right. Why should a healer be different? Cause they can heal? Here is a newsflash... They try to heal you... How dare they

Ok I don't read that spec every day... missed that it was changed... my bad. But I think it's annoying that any stun should not break on damage. That goes for the stun-bubble too ... even if it saves my hide Oh and how do you propose sages/sorcerers get protected? You want them to be totally depending on other players to protect them? This stun-bubble should still keep its function (ak stun) for the sages/sorcerers. I agree though... stuns should go back to being defensive and not offensive... All those stuns (real stuns, not slows or roots) that don't break on damage are annoying

Lol I gotta chime in here too.. I have a sage healer that was full heal for a long time. I went to stun-bubble spec just to be able to survive a bit longer in warzones . I agree that maybe it is a bit much that they can give that stun to everybody in their team, but I've also seen players easily avoid it. Aside from this... why is everybody moaning so much about stun-bubble, when there are so many other stuns in the game just as annoying? Stun-bubble at least breaks on damage. There are several stuns out there that don't. At least it feels that way . Might be only one Is it because the ones moaning about it are often the ones on the receiving end of it? And they don't moan about the other stuns, because they are the ones using those? And I'm guessing they are fine with the ones they are using to kill .

Hehe ... yeah you are right... most of the pages in this thread says the same thing over. And obviously everyone will defend their own class. But some good things are being said on these forums. Things that BW should at least take into consideration. Since they are suppose to be the ones who know what is ballanced and what isn't... after all... they made the game... they should be able to see who is just whining and who is trying to be constructive. I'm sure the healers are not the only ones who's skills got hit/adjusted/nerfed (take your pick). This thread happens to be about healers. And it depends on the kind of healer you play, gear, playstyle, etc.. , whether or not you agree with things being said here, I'm sure. Yes the healer is suppose to be a support class. They should not be able to kill anyone... they are healers after all... but that doesn't mean that everybody should just simply be able to kill them either. They are healers after all.... It's probably hard for Bioware to please both the PVE and the PVP crowd. Healers in PVP are expected to keep up their teammates to a certain point, but also able to take care of themselves to some point. They should not be dependent on other classes to protect them, unless overwhelmed by more than 1 dps, which is often the case when focused. They should not be cannonfodder. At least I don't think. Healers in PVE are expected to keep up their teammates against several strong mobs in operations. In most operations there are 2 healers to keep up the 6 others (8man ops that is). These mobs in operations are not weak and laughable compared to PVP players. They hit hard. And in an operation the healers are expected to keep their dps and tank(s) up through those hits. Bioware is expected to balance both (different) healingstyles and combine it in skills that are suppose to be perfectly ballanced for both PVE and PVP. That is not an easy task by any means. The same goes for dps and tanks. In PVE a tank is supposed to be able to keep the attention of a boss and take huge amounts of damage while being healed. But if they are able to take a lot of dmg in PVP, there is always the chance someone complains they are OP, because they are not easily taken down. The DPS is suppose to do a lot of dmg, because if they don't... in PVE the boss enrages and everybody dies. So lot of dmg is needed for a dps in PVE. But in PVP when they do so much dmg... the healers die easily. I applaud Bioware for trying so hard to ballance all of these elements out in all classes. It's not easy to please all the crowd. These forums are suppose to be about tips and comments on how this can be achieved (at least I think) for each class. Sometimes unfortunately it ends up a insult fest of people disagreeing with eachother. I know I have seen myself drawn into arguments and QQ's and sarcasm. I guess even I sometimes forget what these forums are suppose to be for: Improving the game. Not bashing at different opinions .

Ehm... so healers that do pvp don't do pve? And in pvp they should only be able to heal themselves against one enemy (ok according to some not even that), but in pve they are suddenly expected to keep up themselves and their teammates... and you are asking me what I'm smoking? . The entire purpose of a healer is to keep themselves and others up. Not just themselves... if that were the case then each class would just get their own ability to keep themselves up and healers wouldn't exist in mmo-games. In PVP they are not suppose to keep others up indefinitely, but should at least be able to heal others somewhat aside from themselves... of course they should not be able to survive against 3 players unprotected. But protected yes they should be able to hold their own somewhat. And if under attack healers won't get a chance to heal others much... at least they should not have that chance. But in PVP it is almost never 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2.... there is almost never an even fight in pvp. The only warzone in which I've seen even fights (1vs1, 2vs2, etc) is Civil War. No-one should be able to just plain survive solo against multiple attackers. But it never is solo is it? Not for healer or dps or tank.

Ehm... hope you are not saying that a healer is not suppose to keep up multiple people against multiple enemy's... oh wait that is what you're saying... So when we do an operation... we should have 4 healers and 4 other players.. so that each healer can keep up one other person aside from themselves... Because there are often multiple enemies in an operation lol. As for PVP... So 4 healers and 4 tanks to protect them and... oh wait ... no... 4 healers and 4 dps to protect them (since healers are not suppose to survive 1vs1 against a dps)... oh no wait.... So if healers are only suppose to keep 1 person up (including themselves)... what's the point of a healer exactly? Just asking . And yeah there was some sarcasm in there... sorry, couldn't resist :-).

Lol seriously? Ok I guess I need to explain... if people start comparing scoundrel healing and survivability to sage seer (or sorcerer healing spec) ... then you gotta admit there might be some differences ..... That's all I meant. A scoundrel can say... well healing is just fine now and ballanced, cause I don't have a problem... doesn't mean that is the case for all healer classes. Or someone can say... all the sorcerers/sages are bad and OP, because some of them are hyrbid specced... but not all sages/sorcerers are hybrid... See where I'm going with this? Maybe I didn't say it as well I should have... but I hope now it's clear what I meant by my quoted statement.

Thank you . It's nice to finally also see a dps say this. I still think they should either have sticked with just adjusting the skills or adjusting the expertise %. But not both.

Ok I keep seeing the dps complain that they couldn't take a healer down 1vs1 before the patch... I'm now just wondering if all those dps saying that did not have a healer behind them healing them? They just went in and took damage without receiving any healing from their own healer? If they did take healing from their healer... it was 2 vs 1, wasn't it? If they didn't take healing from their healer... and it was indeed 1 vs 1, why should they be able to simply take down a healer? The healer can heal himself for a reason after all... while he is healing, he can't attack the dps who's attacking him = ballance... they can't kill eachother. Now if the healer were able to kill the dps it would be unballance I guess... but if the dps can kill the healer it's good? This is PVP Warzones... when is it ever an even battle? There is always someone jumping in. Healers are focused (or they should be) because they keep the "targets" alive... makes sense... So the healers (if focused) are almost never attacked by just one dps. There is always someone who sees a health going down and jumps in to help finish it. This also happens of course if a dps is attacked... it's almost never 1 vs 1. Can anybody here really say they ever had a fair battle without anybody else jumping in on either side to get in on the action? Be it a healer or dps or tank? It may happen on rare occassions, and then I find it fun. This thread is just full of assumptions from the other side it seems about how many people are involved in the fight. If a healer is not standing next to someone... how do you know he's healing your target? If the healer is the target, is he alone? If you are gunning for someone... do you do it alone? Really? Are you being healed? Is someone else also shooting your target? Also the scoundrels comparing themselves to sages in healing... please... there are so many differences on both ends... in armor alone already (medium vs light), not to mention skills... Start comparing sages healers to sorcerer healers ... if they are both in full spec healing... don't compare seer sages to hybrid sages... etc... it's not the same... Yes if you can keep your teammates up for 1 second longer, it gives them that 1 second longer to kill someone... but it's still not fun to see them dropping like flies and feeling like you can't keep them up even if you try so hard. But yeah it is satisfactory if you do manage to keep someone up. It just happens less often now. If you go by this argument, I guess PVP is only suppose to be fun for the DPS who now get to kill someone faster. Even if they now also die faster. But I also have heard of dps friends who like it a lot less now. Go figure.

Lol not anymore... at least not on my server... a lot of the healers changed to dps .

So what class do you play? Noticed you not mentioning that. Cause there is a difference... some healing classes have a bit more difficulty in the new PVP environment than others I think. Although when properly focused by the enemy team that difference shouldn't be too big. I'm a sage seer healer and I liked the description a sorcerer gave here... feeling like a rag-doll sometimes. I die faster, since I still get focused in warzones. I still manage to get heals off, but they don't seem to do nearly enough anymore to offset the damage. But I do believe that maybe this patch just needs a bit of time for people to get adjusted to it. A post like this would probably be taken more seriously by everyone if it had been posted a few weeks into the new patch. When everybody is used to a new playingstyle and such. Who knows... maybe with better gear and fully adjusted to a new playing style... I will actually find some survivability in my light armor and heals :-). Maybe the imps will leave me alone more :-).

Thanks :-) And yes .... I'm still healing lol...

Lol ok I gotta respond to this one.... "If you give up attacking whoever's attacking you to heal heal, that's your problem"???? I am a sage seer, so put most points in healing spec. If I start attacking whoever's attacking me, I'm dead... since my dps will probably not impress him much, while he does massive damage to me... And if I don't heal... well do the math... And lol half the time the dps'er attacking me is being healed by his own healer :-). That said... I keep seeing all these posts in which people claim that it's ballanced and as it should be that healers need help to survive being attacked by 1 dps. How is that ballanced exactly? Of course... all the adjustments to the sage healer (and other classes as well) requires a change in playstyle. And when that playstyle has changed we healers will still be able to heal to some extend. But... my 2.3 sec cast strong heal gets interrupted most of the time, as it should be with that cast time. So I'm forced to use the less powerfull heals up against massive dmg output. How many of the dps out there have 2.3 sec cast for their strong dmg output? I am really curious about that. I also think it's not just the healers that are complaining about the new PVP. I actually had a dps vanguard friend complain that warzones are no fun anymore. And he's not even a healer. He's also a devoted PVP player. To be fair... I think it takes more than a few days to really see the full effect of this new PVP experience. People are still running around with mixes of gear pre- and post patch. Not to mention getting used to new play style. And not everybody has had a chance to buy the full BM or WH set yet. So gear is also still an issue for some no doubt. I know it probably still is for me. My experience as a healer might also change when I get my full BM set. So even if I now die faster and feel like I can't keep many people up as long as I could before... I think it's too soon to tell whether or not the changes in the patch will ballance the PVP or not.