Mar/Sents

[JediKalel]

Pretty overconfident.

Marauder are just warmups for my Gunslinger.

 

They were just trying to say that as a Mara/Sent I am so god mode that I faceroll you before you can even use your measly ranged attacks.... you know because I am so OP with damage/defense/health

[ProfessorWalsh]

Links?

 

Also, why are they so much better tanks than... tanks? Glass cannon is fine. Five chained def cooldowns while having the best damage in the game, not so much.

 

PVP Panel Discussion

 

Interesting perception is that if you give up defense for damage, this is really good. This is not entirely true though – as a tank, you are vulnerable against certain attacks and if you give up all your defense gear, you’re making yourself vulnerable to the highest damage classes in the game like Sentinel and Sniper. So you’ll be vulnerable to multiple classes. When we get into ranked PvP and players play more aggressively, you won’t be able to get away with getting rid of defense.

 

There are also numerous posts on the PTS right now that talk about it and have dev responses stating it. They have told us for months now that the Sentinel was the highest damage class in the game followed by the Sniper/Gunslinger.

[mikedee]

you forgot stealth^

[ProfessorWalsh]

You are 100% wrong. They have the best dps. The best def cds. A touch of stealth and everything else anyone playing any class would trade for instantly. 5%...

 

Yes, they have the best DPS. By 5% only. The defensive CD's also are only good for bursting and 1v1 situations. They are terrible in PVE because they don't last long enough. Sheesh all you need to do to render a Sentinel impotent is to root them.

 

The difference is, if you are a Sage, you go:

"They do more than 5% more damage than me!"

 

To which we go:

"You are a ranged class and have less DPS by default."

 

Heck, Assassins and Shadows are ripping Marauders and Sentinels to shreds.

 

Every single class has another class that can/will dominate it.

 

Assassins and Shadows tear open Sentinels and Marauders.

Operatives actually can too if they get lucky.

 

Sentinels and Marauders are very good at killing two classes depending on spec:

 

Sorcerers/Sages and Snipers/Gunslingers

 

-or-

 

Bounty Hunters/Troopers and Juggernauts/Guardians

 

(This depends on spec and itemization.)

Edited April 13, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[mikedee]

Yes, they have the best DPS. By 5% only. The defensive CD's also are only good for bursting and 1v1 situations. They are terrible in PVE because they don't last long enough. Sheesh all you need to do to render a Sentinel impotent is to root them.

 

The difference is, if you are a Sage, you go:

"They do more than 5% more damage than me!"

 

To which we go:

"You are a ranged class and have less DPS by default."

 

Heck, Assassins and Shadows are ripping Marauders and Sentinels to shreds.

 

You are joking right? I play with them. One other class can compete with them. One? We all are having issues with Mar/sents. They were fine before 1.2. They are over the top now.

[DweezillKagemand]

Yes, they have the best DPS. By 5% only. The defensive CD's also are only good for bursting and 1v1 situations. They are terrible in PVE because they don't last long enough. Sheesh all you need to do to render a Sentinel impotent is to root them.

 

The difference is, if you are a Sage, you go:

"They do more than 5% more damage than me!"

 

To which we go:

"You are a ranged class and have less DPS by default."

 

Heck, Assassins and Shadows are ripping Marauders and Sentinels to shreds.

 

Every single class has another class that can/will dominate it.

 

Assassins and Shadows tear open Sentinels and Marauders.

Operatives actually can too if they get lucky.

 

Sentinels and Marauders are very good at killing two classes depending on spec:

 

Sorcerers/Sages and Snipers/Gunslingers

 

-or-

 

Bounty Hunters/Troopers and Juggernauts/Guardians

 

(This depends on spec and itemization.)

 

 

Root him and he immediately leaps at you?

[ProfessorWalsh]

You are joking right? I play with them. One other class can compete with them. One? We all are having issues with Mar/sents. They were fine before 1.2. They are over the top now.

 

Shadows and Assassins don't "compete" with them. They utterly destroy Sentinels and Marauders. (Again, this depends on how they are set up.)

[Neamocoob]

Ravage is now uninterruptable so... yea

 

sweet, about time they made it work. can't wait MS people now muhahaha

[ProfessorWalsh]

Root him and he immediately leaps at you?

 

You can't Force Leap while rooted.

[mikedee]

You can't Force Leap while rooted.

 

Root last 2 secs? now what? stun him for 2 more. Gamechanger! Sry as a sage I don't play the build with root so I don't have that?

Edited April 13, 2012 by mikedee

[Moosestick]

Son, if I'm not mistaken, the 20% is rolled on each hit, Ravage hits 3 times. Hence 60% mitigation which is now ignored?

 

Failing basic understanding of math, saying son on a forum when you proved you don't get basic algebra. +1 internets to you.

60% is not 100%+ 100% is double damage, not 60%

[Totaltrash]

If you can't take two steps away, or use a knockback, id suggest getting more than 4k health if ravage is 3 shotting you

 

Tell that to a sniper.

 

Cover pulse fails and I simply can't get out of cover fast enough and run 15m to escape the uninteruptable ravage.

With multipe hits of 3-5K damage against full BM, 75% of my 17K hitpoints are gone in a blink of an eye.

 

If that's not OP, I don't know what is.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Totaltrash

[ProfessorWalsh]

Root last 2 secs? now what? stun him for 2 more. Gamechanger!

 

There are roots that last for far longer than 2 seconds for one.

 

For two:

 

Wait until they Force Leap, use a knock back, root.

 

They are done for a while at that point after accomplishing very little.

 

Also:

Unless it is a Watchman Sentinel they can't Force Leap you if you are within 15 meters.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Tell that to a sniper.

 

Cover pulse fails and I simply can't get out of cover fast enough and run 15m to escape the uninteruptable ravage.

With multipe hits of 3-5K damage against full BM, 75% of my 17K hitpoints are gone in a blink of an eye.

 

If that's not OP, I don't know what is.

 

That isn't a problem with the Sentinel or Marauder. That is a problem with Cover Pulse. If Cover Pulse isn't working complain about that don't try to complain that Sentinels and Marauders are overpowered.

 

Also no, they won't score multiple hits of 3-5k damage.

 

The entire three hit chain only does around 6,500 damage. Three hits of usually 2,150. Over the course of 3 seconds. On a crit one of these will likely hit for around 3,225 - 3,500.

Edited April 13, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Edryk]

Yes, they have the best DPS. By 5% only. The defensive CD's also are only good for bursting and 1v1 situations. They are terrible in PVE because they don't last long enough. Sheesh all you need to do to render a Sentinel impotent is to root them.

 

I'd believe that sustained dps they are ahead by 5%. But there is no combination of buttons I can press with relics and adrenals that will allow me to do 11k damage in 3 seconds. Ravage isn't even the problem. PvP is about burst or negating defenses. I don't have any roots, so that won't help.

 

How do you come up with this 5% number?

[mikedee]

That isn't a problem with the Sentinel or Marauder. That is a problem with Cover Pulse. If Cover Pulse isn't working complain about that don't try to complain that Sentinels and Marauders are overpowered.

 

Feeling defensive? Don't worry nerfs inc^

[Moosestick]

Root last 2 secs? now what? stun him for 2 more. Gamechanger! Sry as a sage I don't play the build with root so I don't have that?

 

Im going to go out on a limb and say you went scoundrel, then sage, now sin?

 

Rolling the fotms is bad for your impressions of gameplay

[mikedee]

Im going to go out on a limb and say you went scoundrel, then sage, now sin?

 

Rolling the fotms is bad for your impressions of gameplay

 

Nah been sage/sorc since early beta. I only roll classes I have trouble beating to learn them. I guess I will be making a sent soon.

[Moosestick]

Tell that to a sniper.

 

Cover pulse fails and I simply can't get out of cover fast enough and run 15m to escape the uninteruptable ravage.

With multipe hits of 3-5K damage against full BM, 75% of my 17K hitpoints are gone in a blink of an eye.

 

If that's not OP, I don't know what is.

 

A sniper saying 3-5k hits are op? Lawl

[ProfessorWalsh]

I'd believe that sustained dps they are ahead by 5%. But there is no combination of buttons I can press with relics and adrenals that will allow me to do 11k damage in 3 seconds. Ravage isn't even the problem. PvP is about burst or negating defenses. I don't have any roots, so that won't help.

 

How do you come up with this 5% number?

 

Around 5% was what was being reported on the PTS while they were testing 1.2. There was actually a chart at one point that showed all the average damages. We know how much the classes can do.

[AsiriusNazriel]

This thead is a joke.

 

I play on the server Sanctum of the Exalted. I am THE BEST Annihilation Marauder on the server. I am consistently top dps in almost every single warzone I play. I don't take screenshots so you'll have to take my word for it. On that server there is only me and probably 1-2 other Marauders that I would consider good, everyone else is average at best. I would especially love my guildmates to get better, but PVP skill is something that is acquired over time.

 

That being said I think alot of it is L2P, period.

 

The single biggest piece of advice that I can give anyone is this... "Learn what works for you, and learn WHEN to blow your cds". Don't save your cds until a rainy day, but you have to know when is the appropriate time to unload a cd. That is the difference between dying and being able to take do 2on1s and consecutive 1on1s. Far too many people blow their force chokes, Sorc. stuns in unnecessary situations.

 

I use almost every single CD that I have, I have learned to use them. I actively work to incorporate more and more options into my rotations. The truth of the matter is that Marauders were considered to be a weak class during launch, nothing, nothing, nothing changed! People learned how to properly play marauders is all.

 

My job is to DPS people to death, that's what I do. And you guys know what those people that I am attacking do? They either run away, or knock me back and run away, or combination. If they stand toe to toe in melee I rip them apart. Sentinels/Marauders are designed to be top 1v1 class. Properly specced Mercs and their Pub equivilents will always out dps a Marauder is they just stand there and spam shoot their rotation. My favorite is going up against a Merc/Tropper who starts spamming TM/Grav and you interrupt them, all you see is my damage and them standing still because they only know how to press one button. By the time they can press it again I have taken off 3k plus put dots on them.

 

That being said, I can't do much to an OPs or Smuggler who stealth stuns and unloads on me. I have difficulty against good Tankssins such as Dizeren/J'elly. There IS a very good Sage on my server named Scipio who is very difficult for me to kill as a Marauder. He's dps specced and he knows how to kite very very well. There used to be a Trooper (don't know class or spec, but I think it was a Pyro equivilent) who was very difficult for me to beat, his name was Oblexis. Again, it's a skill aspect. There are good players that have kited me and I had great difficulty while there are others who would stand still and were a joke to take out.

 

If I come in and melee someone and they stand still, I come around the back, they can't attack me and I'm still unloading... yeah that person probably sucks or failed to react accordingly.

 

Everyone seems to think that their class needs love. My advice "L2P".

 

If you're a healer, chances are you will ALWAYS be marked and targeted by Marauders like me, that's your fate. If you're a squishy class, I'm targeting you. If you're putting up alot of DPS and hurting my teammates, I'm targeting you (that goes for Sents/Maras and Trooper/BHs). A HUUUUUGE skill is know who to target and when. I will change targets in the middle of a fight consistently when I think it's the best tactic in that situation. If I'm getting dropped bad by 2on1s, I'll stealth away and grab a WZ heal, I don't stand dueling until I'm dead.

 

Everyone is complaining about Ravage/Strike... I can almost never pull off the full combo on anyone. NEVER. I may get 1 hit in, maybe 2, but it is so rare for me to get the full 3 second channel. You guys know why? Because people MOVE AWAY. They don't stand there and complain that I just smoked them in one move. The only ones that actively take the brunt of such an ability are A) Bad Players and B) Other melee dps/tank classes. Good Marauders don't use Ravage because it allows your opponent to run away. The only time I'll use Ravage is if I feel someone is kiting me in a small circle, so that they are within range and won't leave that range.

 

The amount of complaining in these forums is BEYOND ridiculous. Here's the truth, the good healers stayed good, the bad ones complained and respeced. If you're a healer or ranged, you can kite and kill marauders, I've seen it done. It's not easy, but it's a skill. In a WZ where I did 350k damage the second Imperial Marauder (Annihilation as well) did 220k damage and the Republic 2 Sentinels did like 170k and 260k. This result is very consistent in the WZs that I play and the Sents/Maras that I see.

 

My marauder skills were fine before, the vast majority of opponents would think that they were OP, not the case, the way I play my marauder against them is OP.

 

Do I think Marauders need a boost to Carnage? Yes! Do I think that Annihilation has lost some of it's utility, yes (Predation doesn't get a boost and force cloak is gone, although I didn't use force cloak). The new force cloak extra 2 secs and 20% speed is a great boost. What you will see is ALOT more rage bombing Sents/Maras. Alot more burst Rage is finding intself into the game, not my personal cup of tea but it's ok.

 

I think that Bioware will quickly see based upon raw data how OP or NOT OP Ravage/Strike is. I don't use it often on squishy classes to see the difference.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Feeling defensive? Don't worry nerfs inc^

 

There won't be any nerfs incoming because the class isn't overpowered. However your argument was based solely on Cover Pulse not working. That shows the problem isn't with Sentinel. That shows the problem is with Cover Pulse and you are, instead, lashing out at the Sentinel.

[mikedee]

There won't be any nerfs incoming because the class isn't overpowered. However your argument was based solely on Cover Pulse not working. That shows the problem isn't with Sentinel. That shows the problem is with Cover Pulse and you are, instead, lashing out at the Sentinel.

 

Wrong dude I'm the sage.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Wrong dude I'm the sage.

 

I apologize. You were quoting a reply I was making specifically in response to a poster who said:

 

Tell that to a sniper.

 

Cover pulse fails and I simply can't get out of cover fast enough and run 15m to escape the uninteruptable ravage.

With multipe hits of 3-5K damage against full BM, 75% of my 17K hitpoints are gone in a blink of an eye.

 

If that's not OP, I don't know what is.

 

You will note that his entire argument is:

 

Cover pulse fails and I simply can't get out of cover fast enough and run 15m to escape the uninteruptable ravage.

 

As for you being a Sage... I am sorry but the Sentinel Watchman tree was designed to kill you while the Sentinel Combat tree is designed to kill tanks.

[DweezillKagemand]

Failing basic understanding of math, saying son on a forum when you proved you don't get basic algebra. +1 internets to you.

60% is not 100%+ 100% is double damage, not 60%

 

Where did I say it was double the damage?

 

Yeah, derp. Continue to fail at reading with comprehension, son.

Edited April 13, 2012 by DweezillKagemand