Velaran Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Probably not. The only solace Imp players can have is that when Phanius becomes Ruin, he goes around bringing various displaced Sith clans into his Empire. These Sith are thought to be survivors from either TOR's Empire or stranded Sith from Revan or Exar Kun's empires. So maybe a few of our descendants live on for a while. Well, it would have to be a pretty big retcon. Ruin might need to be phased out of existance, or completely changed as a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Well, it would have to be a pretty big retcon. Ruin might need to be phased out of existance, or completely changed as a character. The Bioware writers stated that they werent ever going to retcon pre-existing lore that wasnt ever done by them(something along those lines on the old forum) Anyways.... Darth Ruin was created by Lucas and so was his backstory about being the Original sith lord with his Empire conquering the galaxy and setting in motion the rivalry of the Sith/Jedi...The EU will then be stepping on the movie-continuity/Lucas. The retcon you propose wont ever happen. Edited April 20, 2012 by Girdeux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 The Bioware writers stated that they werent ever going to retcon pre-existing lore that wasnt ever done by them(something along those lines on the old forum) Anyways.... Darth Ruin was created by Lucas and so was his backstory about being the Original sith lord with his Empire conquering the galaxy and setting in motion the rivalry of the Sith/Jedi...The EU will then be stepping on the movie-continuity/Lucas. The retcon you propose wont ever happen. Ruin has already been retconed then. He was most certainly not the original Sith Lord, or the one who set up the Sith/Jedi rivalry. Personally, I think this is a retcon Lucas would support. It's far more interesting then the trivial (and pretty offhanded) information we have on Ruin. And if he doesn't, then forget him. He would rather none of the EU existed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazednconfuzed Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Sorry player. Its official sith lose this war. Really? Where did you see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Ruin has already been retconed then. He was most certainly not the original Sith Lord, or the one who set up the Sith/Jedi rivalry. Personally, I think this is a retcon Lucas would support. It's far more interesting then the trivial (and pretty offhanded) information we have on Ruin. And if he doesn't, then forget him. He would rather none of the EU existed anyway. Darth Ruin is the original Sith lord in the movie continuity, with his faction setting up the rivalry of the Sith/Jedi. Your asking that Lucas wipe off the map HIS vision of what the Sith are and how they came to be . Are you serious ? its NEVER going to happen. Edited April 20, 2012 by Girdeux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Darth Ruin is the original Sith lord in the movie continuity, with his faction setting up the rivalry of the Sith/Jedi. Your asking that Lucas wipe off the map HIS vision of what the Sith are and how they came to be . Are you serious ? its NEVER going to happen. I doubt Lucas even really thought about Ruin, and he's not mentioned in the movies once. Lucas was probably just asked something like: "Hey, how did the whole Sith/Jedi dichotomy get started?" and Lucas just replied: "Uh, the first Sith Lord appeared, like, a thousand years in the past, and took over the galaxy before his empire fell apart." Like I said before, 90% of what Lucas believed Ruin (Lucas didn't even come up with the name by the way) did, or was, has already been retconned. He was definitely not the first Sith Lord, and he didn't set up the Sith/Jedi rivalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthAckley Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 There has not been any official canon on this yet, but based off of what I've read the understanding I have is that at some point the Emperor dies (speculation: with the Emperor being the only Sith ruler in over a thousand years the sith fall to infighting and the Empire collapses). What I have read is that Darth Ruin has about 50 jedi join him as Sith and than he unites these Sith Clans around him. So what will probably happen is that the Emperor will be killed in some event and the Sith Empire will fracture into several small clans ruled by varying warlords. About a 1600 years go by and than Darth Ruin with his 50 Jedi turned Sith come along and reunite the Clans under his rule to restore the Empire. Again this is not canon, but based off of what I've read this seems like the most likely way for the story to play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZayneDraay Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 They took an arrow to the knee... if not that then infighting. The sith always betray one another eventually, it`s the very essence of the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxax Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Darth Bane was responsible for the destruction of the Sith Order that he came from, and created The Rule of Two that lead to Darth Sidious and the conquest of the Republic and Jedi Order by the Sith. That was almost approximately one thousand years before TPM. Don't know what Bane you're thinking of though. The same one, as a matter of fact. But when I hear Ep3 I think as in the movies, so when I hear THAT gave rise to Bane, it's pretty confusing on my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) I doubt Lucas even really thought about Ruin, and he's not mentioned in the movies once. Lucas was probably just asked something like: "Hey, how did the whole Sith/Jedi dichotomy get started?" and Lucas just replied: "Uh, the first Sith Lord appeared, like, a thousand years in the past, and took over the galaxy before his empire fell apart." Like I said before, 90% of what Lucas believed Ruin (Lucas didn't even come up with the name by the way) did, or was, has already been retconned. He was definitely not the first Sith Lord, and he didn't set up the Sith/Jedi rivalry. I'm pretty sure that he did think about Ruin even though he isn't mentioned in the movies. He wasn't thought up on the spot after some reporter/fanboy asked GL who the first Sith Lord was at all, he was in GL's notes while drafting the movies. EDIT: Here you go. It's Wookieepedia so make of it what you will- "The character of Darth Ruin was created by George Lucas as part of the backstory for the prequel trilogy. In Lucas's notes, Ruin is an unnamed Jedi Knight who fell to the dark side with fifty followers 2,000 years prior to the film saga, founding the Sith. Since the Sith have been well established in other C-canon works for thousands of years, this "foundation" was degraded to be only a Schism, after three previous ones." So, GL didn't name him but the backstory is in place, he got named by a writer and fleshed out. GL seems to be a bit of G and C Canon so I don't see BW getting away with retconning him. Then they just created a new Schism to explain the conflicts in lore, so a retcon is looking even less likely. Edited April 20, 2012 by Temeluchus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I'm pretty sure that he did think about Ruin even though he isn't mentioned in the movies. He wasn't thought up on the spot after some reporter/fanboy asked GL who the first Sith Lord was at all, he was in GL's notes while drafting the movies. EDIT: Here you go. It's Wookieepedia so make of it what you will- "The character of Darth Ruin was created by George Lucas as part of the backstory for the prequel trilogy. In Lucas's notes, Ruin is an unnamed Jedi Knight who fell to the dark side with fifty followers 2,000 years prior to the film saga, founding the Sith. Since the Sith have been well established in other C-canon works for thousands of years, this "foundation" was degraded to be only a Schism, after three previous ones." So, GL didn't name him but the backstory is in place, he got named by a writer and fleshed out. GL seems to be a bit of G and C Canon so I don't see BW getting away with retconning him. Then they just created a new Schism to explain the conflicts in lore, so a retcon is looking even less likely. All i'm saying is, it might be the best ending the story can be given. The Empire collapsing from infighting might make sense, and maybe wouldn't be cliche, but it would be awful nontheless. Just look at the entire point of the LS Imperial class motivations. Everyone but the BH (arguably) is activly trying to improve the Empire, and turn it into something that could hold together in the face of the Emperors death. The Empire just collapsing from infighting a few years down the line isn't just a downer ending for the Imerial players as a whole; It's a personal failure for everyone who played their character as a decent person. If the retcon did go into effect, it would allow everyone to win out in some way. The Republic players will know that, in the future, they win. The Sith Empire falls, and the Republic rises again. The Imperial players, Light or Dark, get an ending where they win as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) I doubt Lucas even really thought about Ruin, and he's not mentioned in the movies once. Lucas was probably just asked something like: "Hey, how did the whole Sith/Jedi dichotomy get started?" and Lucas just replied: "Uh, the first Sith Lord appeared, like, a thousand years in the past, and took over the galaxy before his empire fell apart." Like I said before, 90% of what Lucas believed Ruin (Lucas didn't even come up with the name by the way) did, or was, has already been retconned. He was definitely not the first Sith Lord, and he didn't set up the Sith/Jedi rivalry. Actually darth ruin and bane were in the novel, therefore G-Canon. Along with a mention in TPM DVD extra being mentioned about the history of the sith and the first Sith lord (Ruin) to appear 2000 years before the movies, along with 2 or 3 paragraphs in interviews. With Ruin starting the rivalry of the Sith and Jedi. Whether you like it or not he is intended to be the first Sith Lord in the movie continuity..With the REAL name of the sith being the "Sith Knights" And Whether or not you like it, your retcon theory isnt happening. Edited April 21, 2012 by Girdeux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Actually darth ruin and bane were in the novel, therefore G-Canon. Along with a mention in TPM DVD extra being mentioned about the history of the sith and the first Sith lord (Ruin) to appear 2000 years before the movies, along with 2 or 3 paragraphs in interviews. With Ruin starting the rivalry of the Sith and Jedi. Whether you like it or not he is intended to be the first Sith Lord in the movie continuity..With the REAL name of the sith being the "Sith Knights" And Whether or not you like it, your retcon theory isnt happening. Well, do you have any better ideas as to how they can end the story without upsetting every Imperial player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyurii Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Well, do you have any better ideas as to how they can end the story without upsetting every Imperial player? How about accepting that the most likely outcome is the one that will upset "every" Imperial player, as far as the lore goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 How about accepting that the most likely outcome is the one that will upset "every" Imperial player, as far as the lore goes? This. I prefer Empire over Republic. But its extremely obvious that the Sith will lose the war. Its Highly likely though that they will continue the story 8 heroes(if all make it alive) in future comics/novels after the game events end, just like all the other Star wars game main characters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemmingLeader Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 How about accepting that the most likely outcome is the one that will upset "every" Imperial player, as far as the lore goes? It doesn't bother me at all as a player with Imperial characters for the Sith Empire to be crushed in war. As long as the game experience was worth it. It was the same for me when I played SWG in 2004-2005. I was a die-hard, loyal Stormtrooper of the Galactic Empire. Sure, as a fan I know the eventual outcome of the Galactic Civil War. But I had tremendous fun in SWG adventuring in the setting and fighting on behalf of the Empire. The outcome may have long been decided, but I had alot of fun along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyurii Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 It was the same for me when I played SWG in 2004-2005. I was a die-hard, loyal Stormtrooper of the Galactic Empire. Sure, as a fan I know the eventual outcome of the Galactic Civil War. I still firmly believe SWG should have existed outside of continuity. Be "it's own" Star Wars, like a parellel universe or the Infinities stories. Would have allowed for more freedom the restrictions of the timeframe, and allowed for advancement of the timeline. Keeping it static like it was hurt the game in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaikrem Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 My guess: The Dark Council continues it's infighting and weakens the Empire. The Republic gets its **** together. War continues. Later on, at the conclusion of the war/of ToR, the Emperor's plans are learned by each of the player characters, and the eight of them team up to kill him once and for all. Then with no Emperor, a meh Dark Council, and successful cooperation between the galaxy's greatest heroes, the remnants of the Sith Empire are absorbed by the Galactic Republic, and the few remaining Sith are locked up on Belsavis or something (or possibly convert). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigDiath Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 ****Spoiler**** Well it seems we already see the Sith in-fighting going on in the game. Once you get to Ilum it becomes more evident especially with Malgus working with the Republic to further his goals. Everything on Ilum indicates the republic wins. You take out Malgus who would be most likely for sucession in the war if the Emp is taken out. The JK story also seems to be taking you to a confrontation with the Emp which if he does, chances are the Emp will be destroyed. So all in all, it looks like the Jedi and the Republic win this round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) ****Spoiler**** Well it seems we already see the Sith in-fighting going on in the game. Once you get to Ilum it becomes more evident especially with Malgus working with the Republic to further his goals. Everything on Ilum indicates the republic wins. You take out Malgus who would be most likely for sucession in the war if the Emp is taken out. The JK story also seems to be taking you to a confrontation with the Emp which if he does, chances are the Emp will be destroyed. So all in all, it looks like the Jedi and the Republic win this round. This is all wrong or partially wrong. Malgus does form his own splinter Empire, declares himself the new Emperor, disbands the Dark Council and welcomes any Sith and alien races to join him. But this is in name only as he never actually seizes anything of true value to make him a threat to the Empire, nor can he actually overthrow the Emperor or dissolve the DC. Yes, he has a temporary alliance with the Republic, to accomplish his goals and he quickly breaks the alliance and turns on them once the republic have killed the obstacles in his way on Ilum. it would also be a mistake to think Malgus is not Sith anymore as he is still Sith in his overall ideology and actions, he just has a more open,progressive view on ruling and aliens in his vision of the Empire. It's also highly unlikely Malgus is killed. Golden rule of MMOs,books and horror movies, no body means they probably aren't dead. The Empire does not have a line of succession as we know it, and if it did, Malgus would not be next in line to rule the Empire. If the Empire did have a line of succession for its rulers, you could make the case that the Wrath, Dark Council members or the Emperor's Hands would be before Malgus, who at this time is little more than a General of forces in the Unknown Regions. The JK thinks hes going up against the Emperor and believes he has killed him in the end, but he actually only ends up killing the new Voice of the Emperor. The Republic does indeed push back and inflict the hurt on the Empire, but you have to remember that the Empire steamrolled through during the war and was only stopped by the Treaty(through Revan's) influence Only makes sense for future expansions to have the Republic and Empire taking turns gaining ground and losing ground, killing important figures etc. There is still a huge time period for us to work with before Ruin so the speculation is moot, since our characters should long be dead before any side is the clear victor. Edited April 22, 2012 by Temeluchus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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