malchior Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I hope you are not serious. A person who alts is seeing the content from different characters, therefore, different content, and can provide feedback to improve the game on said different roles. All I can read is elistism in your post that 50s are better than anyone else. you missed the general point and only took what you wanted to see out of it. The point of that statement was to show that a person who does the same thing over and over again. Without putting forth extra effort to see everything that can be done, a person cannot provide valuable feedback about improvements to help the game. Those people who have have been rewarded. This is a personal issue of people wanting more because they feel they deserve it even if they have not experienced all elements of the game. I wouldn't want to promote someone if the only experience they have doing work like in a feed related job is simply one job over and over again. People who have not gotten to 50 fit into that same type of category. Am I saying they are not valued people? No, I am however saying that the people who have gotten to 50 have MORE experience with all the elements of the game. THAT to me makes sense that they have an extra incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghredok Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well that's debatable. I would say one person with 1 level 50 doesn't offer nearly as much feedback as someone with let's say 6 level 45s. And in such a situation which would you say is more active? The one with 1 level 50 no alts or the one with 6 levels 45s? Don't get me wrong I'm not mad/upset/bothered about Bioware's decision here, but i do understand why some would be. It's the principle and perception of what they said and how they said it. Come on people it should be human nature to be a little bit apathetic to our fellow man/woman no? Don't get me wrong, I understand why so many people are upset. But as a person who has been in management, I also understand where certain types of knowledge are more valuable in this kind of circumstance. I'm not saying that the decision is fair or unfair. I am saying it makes sense to me. All I am doing is providing another side of this argument that many people probably don't either care or want to hear I'm sure. That doesn't make it any less important. There are many factors to take into consideration about this benefit that people have gotten. I'm sure several people combined have touched on all the factors. My argument is just another opinion that may or may not be accurate concerning their decision. If it is, it makes sense to me. If not, my management experience still tells me it is a sensible choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midhir Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Your idea to get back at them is two cancel two subs out of 1.7..aren't you suffering because thousands of hours of play your not playing in protest.. Since I can't cancel 1.7 million subs that is all I can do, and no I'm not suffering. It's a game. I can find other things to do, I don't NEED to play SWTOR. You think complaining on a message board and paying them every month is making them suffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebornlos Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Well that's debatable. I would say one person with 1 level 50 doesn't offer nearly as much feedback as someone with let's say 6 level 45s. And in such a situation which would you say is more active? The one with 1 level 50 no alts or the one with 6 levels 45s? Don't get me wrong I'm not mad/upset/bothered about Bioware's decision here, but i do understand why some would be. It's the principle and perception of what they said and how they said it. Come on people it should be human nature to be a little bit apathetic to our fellow man/woman no? It actually is not debatable, he is correct your 6 lvl 45s can not give input on hardmodes.ops,level 50 pvp..etc etc. Like he said you can not give input on lvl 50 stuff if you arent level 50. so yes they are more valuable than your pre 50s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyung Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I didn't see this on patch note, is this just for ppl who already has level 50? one time thing, you are SOL if you don't already have level 50? Or can I get this when i hit level 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzytoad Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 No, I am not making an assumption. I am saying that the level 50 player CAN provide more feedback than a person who has not gotten to 50. This is what people are confusing about my argument. I am not saying that everyone who has gotten this reward are people who provide any feedback at all. I am saying that if they were asked to they could provide MORE than someone who has not gotten to 50. And because of that. That kind of information will be more valuable because they CAN provide it when someone else can't. And I would 1000% disagree with you. a Rushed Level 50 can provide feedback on endgame content. Endgame content as a whole does not surpass overall game content, meaning sidequests, space missions, crafting, gathering, dialogue errors, etc.. Someone with 2 or 3 level 40s from differing storylines has far more information to provide feedback on than a person with a single level 50. Someone who leveled a single character to level 45 by taking their time and doing all the side stuff, plus leveling a crafting skill to 400 along with the associated gathering skills has far more feedback to offer than a typical spacebar 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaeridLock Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I'm not saying that these people are less worthy. What I am saying is, that from an objective standpoint. Experience of all elements of the game is more beneficial to have than more detailed repeated experience with only some parts of the game. And to me, I think that is the viewpoint that BW took. To me, it makes sense. Ok so are you saying that only a lvl 50 has experience of ALL elements of the game? I have a friend who does nothing but PVP but hey he's level 50, does he have experience of ALL elements of the game? He hasn't even finished his own class storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raximillian Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 you missed the general point and only took what you wanted to see out of it. The point of that statement was to show that a person who does the same thing over and over again. Without putting forth extra effort to see everything that can be done, a person cannot provide valuable feedback about improvements to help the game. Those people who have have been rewarded. This is a personal issue of people wanting more because they feel they deserve it even if they have not experienced all elements of the game. I wouldn't want to promote someone if the only experience they have doing work like in a feed related job is simply one job over and over again. People who have not gotten to 50 fit into that same type of category. Am I saying they are not valued people? No, I am however saying that the people who have gotten to 50 have MORE experience with all the elements of the game. THAT to me makes sense that they have an extra incentive. This is completely wrong. I understand what you are trying to get to, but the logic of getting there is not quite right. You are saying that a lvl 50 is more valuable to BW because they can provide more feedback, etc. However, that is not necessarily true. Not all lvl 50 players provide good feedback (or any feedback), and not all Lvl49 or less players provide no feedback. And no, a player that played one class to 50 does not necessarily have more experience with the game than a player that played all 8 classes to 49. BW is measuring worth simply by the level of a character. However, you cannot measure worth just by that arbitrary number. That number can be acquired by rushing or not, by providing feedback or not, etc, etc, etc. BW is separating, and awarding people that are "valued" and "loyal" based on a totally arbitrary number. And that does tick me off. And yes, I did get the 30 free days, and it still ticks me off tremendously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahoda Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I wonder what is the point of Legacy? If the most value type of play is to make 50 and play daylies all the time? I got 7 chars in game. From 40 to 20. I am playing imps and republic together. Trying story lines of smuggler, BH, sorc, jedi knight just to feel the main asset of SW:Tor. Video conversations. Well, i should have learned how to use space instead of enjoying game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealYukonSam Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) I didn't see this on patch note, is this just for ppl who already has level 50? one time thing, you are SOL if you don't already have level 50? Or can I get this when i hit level 50? It'd sure defuse the situation if everybody got a free month the first time they hit 50. Edited April 13, 2012 by TheRealYukonSam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You have it backward my friend. WE pay THEM. It's like buying milk from the grocery store, and giving one guy $1 off because he bought 1 item and ate it very quickly. The next guy bought the same item, but ate it too slow so he gets NO DISCOUNT! If the store wants to give a coupon to one valued customer over another does not mean they do not value the other. That customer may benefit in some way at a later date, or may have received something earlier from when the store first opened. One should not measure self worth based on what others receive; unhealthy and unwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allumis Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 you missed the general point and only took what you wanted to see out of it. The point of that statement was to show that a person who does the same thing over and over again. Without putting forth extra effort to see everything that can be done, a person cannot provide valuable feedback about improvements to help the game. Those people who have have been rewarded. This is a personal issue of people wanting more because they feel they deserve it even if they have not experienced all elements of the game. I wouldn't want to promote someone if the only experience they have doing work like in a feed related job is simply one job over and over again. People who have not gotten to 50 fit into that same type of category. Am I saying they are not valued people? No, I am however saying that the people who have gotten to 50 have MORE experience with all the elements of the game. THAT to me makes sense that they have an extra incentive. Your argument only stands if the following is true: 1) Every level 50 has submitted the same number of bug reports 2) Every level 50 has experienced the exact same game experiences This is not true on either account, my friend who got me to try this game is level 50, he only plays for PvP content, didnt pre-order or beta test and has never submitted a bug report in his life yet he is more valuable (according to the post made by BW) than anyone else who doesn't have a level 50. I think debating this with you is going to be pointless, I can already tell you're of what I like to call the "old breed of managers" who are always "right" and could do with investing in a glass stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebornlos Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 naaaaa there is content that was advertized for your lvl 50 toons that didn’t get implemented, you deserve the break. That didn’t happen to me, all the content that was released for the toons at my levels were just fine. Take your little compensation with a smile Funny how most of the people in this thread have missed this. A+ sir good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghredok Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Ok so with your logic your saying my friend who pre-ordered before I did, has payed since day one, beta tested with me for several months, who I might add spent more time submitting bug reports then playing or more then I did ( think I submitted like 5 or something ) is less valuable then me because he has a life outside of game and a family and 2 small children, not to mention a job with 12 hour shifts and does not deserve it? You sir are misguided and clearly do not understand the situation. Do you have a level 50? I do. If you do not have a level 50, I have more feedback to provide than you. Does this mean that I am a better player than you? No. Does this mean you are any less important than me as a player? No. Does this mean I do have more experience than you do about things in the game? Yes. And if this was a factor for this 30 day free time, it is a sensible decision to me. If I am misguided for seeing that, then so be it. It's probably why I have had management jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Since I can't cancel 1.7 million subs that is all I can do, and no I'm not suffering. It's a game. I can find other things to do, I don't NEED to play SWTOR. You think complaining on a message board and paying them every month is making them suffer? Yet here you are with a sub that works. I know you say you cancelled but as soon as the servers come back up you will be right back in there. I also am pretty sure we will see more "do this or I quit" posts from you in the years to come. If you really got fed up and quit you wouldnt have posted about it and you wouldnt be here now. When I wash my hands of a game I dont sit and post on the forums forever looking for attention. Edited April 13, 2012 by Leggomy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigabolt Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I understand why so many people are upset. But as a person who has been in management, I also understand where certain types of knowledge are more valuable in this kind of circumstance. I'm not saying that the decision is fair or unfair. I am saying it makes sense to me. All I am doing is providing another side of this argument that many people probably don't either care or want to hear I'm sure. That doesn't make it any less important. There are many factors to take into consideration about this benefit that people have gotten. I'm sure several people combined have touched on all the factors. My argument is just another opinion that may or may not be accurate concerning their decision. If it is, it makes sense to me. If not, my management experience still tells me it is a sensible choice. BWAHAH 'has been' in management, i can understand why that is past tense. who does a company value more? the guy that burned to 50 in 1month then unsubbed or the altaholic that has been subscribing since release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heaveymellow Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I think the point of this "gift" was to give something to the players who play for the end-game content that hasn't really been there yet. If you have been leveling alts, and working through other characters then you are still getting new content out of the game, but players who reached level 50 are pretty much running the same flashpoints, operations, and warzones over and over again, with out much incentive to keep playing, the 'gift' is for those who did keep playing. Alot of those people who reached 50 aren't alt holics and haven't been playing much in the last month, but have still been paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongeMeier Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I have my view on this posted in my sig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asbalana Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The only reason they give out these 30 days is because its soon time to announce the subscription-numbers. And since they have lost so many subs in the last few weeks they hand out a free month - problem solved, same subs like last time = YAY! we have alot of subs! Well this is my theory about it all... Glad someone else gets it. This is what it is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimex Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Tbh I see both sides of the fence on this one. Sadly, I don't fall into the 50 and over freebee lifeplan (30 days). That said, you bet your a** I'm leveling to 50 in time for v1.3 x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shayde Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Provide feedback? The **** is this....beta? The valuable feedback is just the incessant whining over the lack of an endgame. But some consider that valuable. Not the devs, just some entitled ******s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaeridLock Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 It actually is not debatable, he is correct your 6 lvl 45s can not give input on hardmodes.ops,level 50 pvp..etc etc. Like he said you can not give input on lvl 50 stuff if you arent level 50. so yes they are more valuable than your pre 50s. And again you're assuming that that lvl 50 is doing all those things. I know plenty of 50s who do nothing but PVP, they don't do HM FPs, Operations, hell they don't even finish their class storyline. One of the main criticisms of this game is the lack of end-game (level 50) content, so if level 50 content is all you're focusing on what really are you contributing if there's nothing there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinron Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Anyone who has been subbed since release should have got this. Absurd way to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebornlos Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Seems like a lot of people disagree with you. Who are you to say who can provide feedback about the game? I might not be able to tell you about ops, but I can discuss every datacron in the game to exact detail. Does that make me less valuable? I can discuss every mission on Nar Shaddaa, less valuable? Again, backwards. People who go slow and play the entire game have a BETTER perception on the game and all of the elements involved because they took the time to explore and enjoy. Yes you are less valuable when it comes to endgame. done see its not debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaneos Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 This is completely wrong. I understand what you are trying to get to, but the logic of getting there is not quite right. You are saying that a lvl 50 is more valuable to BW because they can provide more feedback, etc. However, that is not necessarily true. Not all lvl 50 players provide good feedback (or any feedback), and not all Lvl49 or less players provide no feedback. And no, a player that played one class to 50 does not necessarily have more experience with the game than a player that played all 8 classes to 49. BW is measuring worth simply by the level of a character. However, you cannot measure worth just by that arbitrary number. That number can be acquired by rushing or not, by providing feedback or not, etc, etc, etc. BW is separating, and awarding people that are "valued" and "loyal" based on a totally arbitrary number. And that does tick me off. And yes, I did get the 30 free days, and it still ticks me off tremendously. ^ what this guy said. I got the 30 days also, but if I could I would give it to my friend who can't play as much because or work, real life, family, and has been around the same amount of time as I have. The only way they can fix this is to give it to everyone or take it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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