Color crystals and the lore

[testszag]

Actually, there bloody is. You're a Sith and a part of the Imperial army are you not? Would a US soilder in WWII put on a gestapo, Nazi uniform just because he feels it's his "choice" and it looks "cool"? No.

 

Your blade color helps to identify your role and faction, it helps to create order, without order there is chaos.....and FREEDOM without restrictions will ultimately lead to anarchy and collapse.

 

Wierd how you don't throw a fit about the npcs in the game wearing the proper uniforms and using the proper saber crystals, I'm actually surprised you kids don't call for all the Jedi npcs to have red sabers and the Sith to use green with bright shiny sparkles.

 

End point is Bioware caved in and SOLD OUT the lore to make a buck, but personally I'd rather have lost the subs of those who wanted this nonsense and had a smaller, yet saner game population.

 

if anything, the fact that the npcs are using the tradition only enforces our right to use any we want. the majority of the force users do follow traditon. look at you and the other kiddies whining about it in this thread, trying to bend lore to fit your narrow minded view of wha the star wars lore should be. that means that most are doing exactly what you say, and sticking to the tradition. those of us that are using the colors we like, which is supported by the lore, are the minority. just like the lore says it should be.

 

 

again, get over it. if it bothers you so much, leave. easy peasy.

[Belpheghor]

if anything, the fact that the npcs are using the tradition only enforces our right to use any we want. the majority of the force users do follow traditon. look at you and the other kiddies whining about it in this thread, trying to bend lore to fit your narrow minded view of wha the star wars lore should be. that means that most are doing exactly what you say, and sticking to the tradition. those of us that are using the colors we like, which is supported by the lore, are the minority. just like the lore says it should be.

 

 

again, get over it. if it bothers you so much, leave. easy peasy.

 

Failing to see a point in this ramble, I'm guessing your another who's trying to fit a square block in a round hole.

 

"the fact that the npcs are using the tradition only enforces our right to use any we want".......

 

hmmm....got me there, guess I should bow out gracefully at this point.

[Amien]

Adi Galia (Concil Member) Uses a red saber. The red color isn't because it means "I'm a bad guy!!" It means that it's a synthetic crystal, while the other colors are naturally occurring in the galaxy.

[DeutschGamer]

Adi Galia (Concil Member) Uses a red saber. The red color isn't because it means "I'm a bad guy!!" It means that it's a synthetic crystal, while the other colors are naturally occurring in the galaxy.

 

Pretty sure Luke synthesized his green crystal, so its not just red ones that are created that way. I'm still for no restriction on colors, just saying.

[Ranadiel_Marius]

Actually, there bloody is. You're a Sith and a part of the Imperial army are you not?

Sith are not part of the Army. They are a seperate group that is able to kill or command any member of the Imperial army that they so choose for pretty much whatever reason.

End point is Bioware caved in and SOLD OUT the lore to make a buck, but personally I'd rather have lost the subs of those who wanted this nonsense and had a smaller, yet saner game population.

 

No what they did fits the lore. It just doesn't fit your aestetic(sp) sense for how things are.

[bencannon]

Why would anyone who hates EU play this game? This entire game is based around expanded universe! if only the movies are the real canon, then nothing in this game matters, so what are you doing here and why do you care? The sith didn't use red for factional identification, they used it because they synthesized their crystals. There have been examples of sith using non-red and jedi using red crystals in multiple instances throughout star wars. The events taking place in episodes 4-6 are so small in comparison with the entirety of star wars EU. While these instances are the exception, I wish to imagine that each character that I play in the old republic is a unique, heroic, individual, rather than the norm. When I play, I have no interest in the other players' characters in the game. Their existence, along with the replicated companion characters, goes against my entire storyline. In my class quests, none of these other characters exist, and the class quest is the only thing that I feel like I can hang onto for lore purposes, even though I know that my personal decisions by themselves make it impossible for even that to truly be star wars lore. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the MMO aspect of the game, but for me that part has nothing to do with lore or storyline, it's just for fun. So in any single character's storyline that I play, I imagine that it is a story that takes place in the star wars universe, and that my character can or can not make decisions that other characters have made, based on my own personal choices. If my sith warrior picks up a blue lightsaber and decides for any reason that I choose that he wants to wield this particular saber, or he for some reason goes on a quest to find a natural crystal and the one that calls to him happens to be blue, that can totally happen in my star wars universe and it has a precedent even if it only happened once before. If no sith had ever used a blue lightsaber before, it could still happen, because my heroic character is capable of making decisions that other characters didn't make. I'm sorry that it bothers people when they see characters like these, but honestly I don't see how this is the first thing that bothers you, given the shared titles and companions.

[Captain_Zone]

Why would anyone who hates EU play this game? This entire game is based around expanded universe! if only the movies are the real canon, then nothing in this game matters, so what are you doing here and why do you care? The sith didn't use red for factional identification, they used it because they synthesized their crystals. There have been examples of sith using non-red and jedi using red crystals in multiple instances throughout star wars. The events taking place in episodes 4-6 are so small in comparison with the entirety of star wars EU. While these instances are the exception, I wish to imagine that each character that I play in the old republic is a unique, heroic, individual, rather than the norm. When I play, I have no interest in the other players' characters in the game. Their existence, along with the replicated companion characters, goes against my entire storyline. In my class quests, none of these other characters exist, and the class quest is the only thing that I feel like I can hang onto for lore purposes, even though I know that my personal decisions by themselves make it impossible for even that to truly be star wars lore. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the MMO aspect of the game, but for me that part has nothing to do with lore or storyline, it's just for fun. So in any single character's storyline that I play, I imagine that it is a story that takes place in the star wars universe, and that my character can or can not make decisions that other characters have made, based on my own personal choices. If my sith warrior picks up a blue lightsaber and decides for any reason that I choose that he wants to wield this particular saber, or he for some reason goes on a quest to find a natural crystal and the one that calls to him happens to be blue, that can totally happen in my star wars universe and it has a precedent even if it only happened once before. If no sith had ever used a blue lightsaber before, it could still happen, because my heroic character is capable of making decisions that other characters didn't make. I'm sorry that it bothers people when they see characters like these, but honestly I don't see how this is the first thing that bothers you, given the shared titles and companions.

 

Some people, unfortunately, pick up a sub and just play enough of the game so they can complain and QQ on the Forums about the lack of consistencies they perceive in the Lore. They are "Lore cops", as I like to call them, who take themselves way too seriously. If it isn't how they THINK it should be, it's wrong. Now, to be fair, I've done the same on certain things, but lightsaber color isn't one of them. I believe in freedom for all as far as color crystals go.

 

Just my 2 credits. lol

[Cartooon]

The lore states that Jedi and Sith can use all colours, they are individuals and can do what they will.

 

My memory of the lore specifics are a little sketchy but from what I can remember the sith are often make synthetic crystals, which normally yield a red crystal (but not necessarily all of the time) and following a certain battle all but green and blue crystals became difficult to obtain for the Jedi. Which is why each side is often seen with their "standard" colours.

 

The lore has never restricted ether side to any specific colour. Though I believe many later sith make their lightsabers red out of tradition of their order (I think Sidious told Anakin to make a red saber to follow this tradition when he became sith. )

 

The films may have restricted lightsaber colours so that simpletons can understand whats going on... (Green and blue = nice, red = naughty hurrrrrr) but the lore is open to any colours.

 

As for the game I think it should make each sides native colours easy to obtain, with the opposite sides colours and rare colours more difficult to acquire. Thats what I think fits the lore best anyway. And it would keep people happy, as most of what you see would be standard.

 

Someone who knows a bit more than I do can correct me / fill in the gaps. But Im pretty sure that the lore has always been open for anyone to have whatever colour they want.

[SupremeLegate]

I recently put a Blue and Green crystal into my Dark Side Sith Warriors lightsabers, and ignoring the +20 Endurance reason for using them, I would simply say that it is my Sith taunting the Jedi.

[thewatcheruatu]

My Sith Warrior's lightsaber was taken early in his career from a Jedi. Hence, it's blue.

 

There you go.

[Leolab]

Actually, there bloody is. You're a Sith and a part of the Imperial army are you not?

 

IIRC, the Sith Warrior is also the Emperors Wrath, one of the most powerful people in the Empire. So they can kinda tell anyone to shove a lightsaber in unspeakable places if they don't like the color the Wrath is using.

[peacefulloser]

I think that the tradition should take more place in the class-quests. I would hate to roleplay in a world there half the jedi have red lightsabers. But I think I'd hate a world there you can't play in the grey between dark and light, sith and jedi, even more.

[KizuOkami]

It was, and then they changed it because of the fact that alignment restrictions are NOT canon. As I stated in my above post, there have been instances of Jedi using "Sith" colors and even a Dark Lord of the Sith using a blue saber.

 

Yes also there was a Jedi who dressed up as a Tusken Raider to further study them (Can't remember his name) Who had also used a red lightsaber.

[Bhaers]

There is no canon on restricting colour crystals, just misguided expectation.

 

Spoiler on Kira:

 

Although once I learnt that Kira's was in fact a Sith her double bladed sabre immediately got a red crystal put in it. More of an in-joke I guess because so many people seem to believe that the colour means something. They will look at her thinking "Hmmm, Padawan with a dual blade red sabre, why is that" while those who have done that part of the quests will recognise why and think "Oh; Kira the Sith"

 

Edited April 19, 2012 by Bhaers

[JediKalel]

Meh, traditon does not mean mandatory.... Anakin used Dookus saber to cut off his head, Mace had a purple saber, Anakin used his blue saber after he became a sith...etc...etc...etc...

 

How about someone complain about the endgame clothing which looks NOTHING like Star Wars... the new "War Hero" gear for the jedi knight just screams -steam punk, bug eyed, space marine- NOTHING about it says Star Wars to me except the lightsaber youre holding. To me thats more of a slap in the face than what color said lightsaber happens to be:wea_03:

[MORTTUUM]

This has always stuck me a a stupid-beyond-belief arguement.

 

Sith are, by definition, individualists; "It's ALL about ME." What individualist would bother with "the rules" when it comes to something which has no material effect on their success? None.

 

Jedi are, at least in principle, all about helping others. What does any aid-worker care about the source of the aid, as long as it feeds the needy (or whatever)? None.

 

As well, color preference is not a decision one makes rationally, it's in the brains' wiring. Your favorite color was not "chosen" by you after deep consideration, is just is your favorite color. Neither Jedi nor Sith, for their own reasons, would use a color they didn't like if they didn't have to.

[Dracurian]

Mmm...another thread on what is cannon.

 

When it comes to Star Wars, George Lucas has final say on EVERYTHING!

No one makes a commercial SW product with out Mr. Lucas' okay, therefore, yellow light-sabre blades, yes.

Sith using colours other than red, yes.

 

& to be pedantic, the different types of Jedi is actually an invention it's self, in the movies no such distinction exsists, they are all just jedi knights, & able to use any colour blade as long as it's green or blue.

 

If you want a pseudo in universe explanation, I have one:-

 

By the time of the Phantom Menace, both the Jedi & Sith had become ossified, bound by tradition. The Jedi used blue & green blades, so these became the traditional colours used over others, like neutral coloured robes. Mace Windu was a bit of a rebel due to the purple blade, but then he was more grey jedi.

 

The Sith, as seen by Palpatine & Vader, follow the school of Darth Bane, Who most likely wielded a red sabre, & therefore all Disciples of Bane since, wield the red blade.

 

 

 

8-)

Edited April 19, 2012 by Dracurian

[AbsolutGrndZero]

crystal colors dont bother me as much as the fact that any non-force-sensitive character can craft lightsabers. Lore dictates thatonly force-sensitive/Jedi/Sith can craft their lightsabers, no one else.

 

Actually I agree, however they didn't want to make Artifice Jedi/Sith only. So, their idea i beta was they said we would NEVER be able to craft lightsabers. NEVER. NO. A THOUSAND TIMES NO. STOP ASKING. NO. Then... in 1.2 they realized that screwed over jedi and sith as they couldnt' have augments in their weapons, so they finaly gave in to us. So, while I agree with you entirely, I think it gameplay wise is cool the way it is... Plus, most of what an artificer makes is lightsaber related... hlts, etc... I just don't get why anyone would take it other than a Jedi/Sith.. What you want to take an entire crafting profession of stuff worthless to you for... enhancments? You're going to then be buying your barrels, mods, armoring, etc... WHy not make of of those then buy your enhancements? Just makes more sense to me.

 

As for the whole color crystal lore thing... it was debated ad naueuam for over 1000 pages at the end of beta and it took utnil recently for Bioware to realize it was a bad idea... please... it's NOT CANON... it isNOT LORE.. it's gone, get over it. My dark jedi sentinel will be using red crystals, but that is HER CHOICE (they match her hair so nicely LOL j/k though she IS a redhead, that's not why she chooses red) not because Bioware is forcing me to.

[Hatefrenzy]

Man, I bet all these so called "traditionalists" must really get their nickers in twist when they see 100 people running around fleet with the "Republics Most Wanted", or "Barsen'thor" titles. Hell, while I'm on the point, Isn't seeing 100 other people playing the same class as you just a complete thorn in your side? I mean, that's 100 other people who are technically the same character as you! Maybe a thread should be started on these VERY important topics, because obviously it flies in the face of logic, immersion, and your personal sense of what this universe, which is shared by thousands upon thousands of people, should be, or is , all about.

 

Anyway, this is an MMO, if you ABSOLUTELY can't stand people playing the game in a way that they want, in a way that really doesn't (or shouldn't, but you've obviously already crossed that bridge) affect you, then MAYBE you just aren't cut out for MMO's.

[natashina]

Wow, another of these threads? In a MMORPG?

 

1) I was never thrilled at the idea that DS toons got only one specific color crystal(red) while LS toons had 2(blue/green.) This balances out that issue, and opens up more of a market for artificers on both factions. Plus, I'm tired of lack of variety in general; I really get sick of seeing yellow and orange crystals on my toons. I'd like the choice outside of red, orange and yellow for my DS SW.

 

2) Some say that its game breaking. I say that is a relative and untrue statement. I think removing alignment restrictions from crystals gives me more freedom as a roleplayer. I can tailor the color of my crystal to my personality, not my alignment. I personally don't care if the Jedi next to me has a red crystal or my husband's Dark V BH has a green one. Besides, from a purely RP'ing perspective, my Sith and my Jedi don't care one way or the other. Jedi/Sith have the ultimate form of Detect Alignment and wouldn't use color as a way to determine if someone was LS/DS or not.

 

3) Seemed silly in the first place. Between the EU examples and the ones from the movies, I think that color had nothing to do with alignment, but rather preference. There is zero good reason why my SW should be forbidden to green/blue and why my Jedi would be adverse to red. If I want my SW to wield my favorite color(blue), then I feel she should be allowed as such.

 

I'm going to repeat what I've said in other threads: This is in the game, like it or not. If that makes you unsub, then sorry to see you go. This isn't the game for you. The rest of us are going to enjoy the ride and see what kinds of updates are to come.

 

My sorc does use a blue lightsaber crystal. She is a very DS character(I think I might have 200 LS points with her.) I roleplay it as she stole the crystal from some stupid Jedi she killed.

 

I've also noticed that the people complaining the most about the lack of restrictions are PVP'ers that can no longer tell Jedi from Sith just from lightsaber color.

 

Just my 2 credits.

Edited April 21, 2012 by natashina

[Silvrus]

Saber blade colors in the movies was done so the general viewers would have an easy way of identifying the good/bad guys. In the EU, saber colors were explained by the crystals in them, of which Jedi generally got theirs from natural formations which produce either blue or green. Dark Jedi, after being exiled from Galactic Republic Space and becoming the Sith, didn't have access to those resources and had to manufacture synthetic crystals, which usually took on a red hue. Samuel L. Jackson introduced the possibility of freedom of saber colors when he demanded the purple color, and I thank him for it.

 

I think there is evidence for the color of crystal being tied to the LS/DS in that during the creation of the Lightsaber, the crafter channels the Force into it, but even if that is true it doesn't preclude the possibility of a Jedi/Sith using a Saber from a fallen enemy or the crystal therein.

 

And food for thought, why in the movies, do they show Jedi using blue/green and Sith using red, but Republic forces blasters shoot red and Empire forces blasters shoot blue/green?

[Captain_Zone]

Saber blade colors in the movies was done so the general viewers would have an easy way of identifying the good/bad guys. In the EU, saber colors were explained by the crystals in them, of which Jedi generally got theirs from natural formations which produce either blue or green. Dark Jedi, after being exiled from Galactic Republic Space and becoming the Sith, didn't have access to those resources and had to manufacture synthetic crystals, which usually took on a red hue. Samuel L. Jackson introduced the possibility of freedom of saber colors when he demanded the purple color, and I thank him for it.

 

I think there is evidence for the color of crystal being tied to the LS/DS in that during the creation of the Lightsaber, the crafter channels the Force into it, but even if that is true it doesn't preclude the possibility of a Jedi/Sith using a Saber from a fallen enemy or the crystal therein.

 

And food for thought, why in the movies, do they show Jedi using blue/green and Sith using red, but Republic forces blasters shoot red and Empire forces blasters shoot blue/green?

 

Actually, the Imperial ground forces shoot red in the movies, while the Republic ground forces shoot green. In space, it's reversed. X-Wings shoot red while TIE Fighters shoot green. Groundpounders from both sides use blue when using the stun setting, since it's a blue ion bolt.

[Silvrus]

Actually, the Imperial ground forces shoot red in the movies, while the Republic ground forces shoot green. In space, it's reversed. X-Wings shoot red while TIE Fighters shoot green. Groundpounders from both sides use blue when using the stun setting, since it's a blue ion bolt.

 

Ahh, thanks. Been awhile since I saw the movies, I just remember thinking about the difference in colors. As a kid I thought the Lightsabers were powered by the user channeling the Force, which would explain the red/blue/green differences, lol.

[Ballsandmyword]

The so called "traditionalists" always make me laugh. By their logic......

 

-Sentinels and Marauders should be removed from the game.

 

-Jedi Shadows removed from the game. Only Sith Assassins should exist (thank you Darth Maul)

 

-Gunslingers should be removed from the game. only Scoundrels allowed

 

-Imperial Snipers removed from the game.

 

Shall I continue??

[Bluerodian]

The only canon reason I've found that Jedi have rainbow crystals and Sith use red crystals is because the red crystals are synthetics (Easy to manufacture and all that) while the colorful ones require more work because they have to be found. It's part of the philosophy of the two sides, but this was blown out of the water later, of course, in Shadows of the Empire when Luke manufactures the crystals for his green saber.

 

That also just goes to show that a Sith who wants to work to get a crystal by finding it or a Jedi who just wants to make his crystals in a furnace are equally plausible.