The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[TheronFett]

You dont seem to get that it is not about "YOU" and what YOU did. It's about what YOU did FOR your TEAM, pursuant to the OBJECTIVE.

 

YOU are the one who brought up the premise of individual effort, which I was responding to. I was pointing out that individual effort does not get rewarded if the team fails. Non-contributing baddies from the winning team earn more rewards.

 

To use an analogy from someone else who posted earlier, Michael Jordan: If he had an all-star performance, but his team still lost the game, did he still get paid? Of course he did. That's all we're saying here. This new "reward" system is broken. Winners should of course earn more, but losing teams should not get the shaft, especially in the form of credits.

 

I want to see a screenie with this information...

 

Until then I am going to assume you are full of ****.

 

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, so I'll just join the others LOLing at you.

[cashogy]

credit rewards should be uniform for winners and losers.

 

comms on the other hand should be dependent on individual performance and outcome.

 

this really needs to be changed to how it was pre 1.2. it wasnt broken, and didnt need to be fixed

[Fexhie]

I agree, the new system sucks.

 

I was in a huttball game last night with 4 people on my team.

I got 11 commendations for fighting it out.

I don't like things handed to me, and I don't want to be rewarded for failing.

However, this felt like I was being punished.

 

How long did this match last? I can't see a 4 on 8 lasting much longer than 5 minutes. You don't think 50 coms is worth five minutes? You think you are being penalized because you didn't get a paltry sum of credits for winning? They had more people and you lost, you did well, feel good about the match b/c you probably had more medals than some of them did. Come on man punished? I used to love losing huttball, I could get 500 valor x 3 in the amount of time it took me to lose 1 civil war or voidstar.

 

And really...about the credits. You could pvp all day every day and the only credit gain you will really get is the credits from the pvp quests and the bags, now that they took bags out the game your credits are just not gonna move at all even if you win every pvp match and you play them all day everyday, I could make more credits killing 1 group of mobs than I earn in an entire winning pvp match.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Fexhie

[Zaodon]

If Michael Jordan was the best basketball player of all time but he lost every game because he was too busy dribbling circles around his opponents, would he still be a basketball player?

 

the answer is no.

 

If Jordan and Larry Byrd played against 5 3rd string players from the worst team in the NBA, who would win?

 

the answer is the 5-player team, 100% of the time.

[Astarica]

If Jordan and Larry Byrd played against 5 3rd string players from the worst team in the NBA, who would win?

 

the answer is the 5-player team, 100% of the time.

 

Well Michael Jordan didn't bail on his team just because he had a PUG center.

 

I guess you can argue Larry Bird was always in a premade.

[Fexhie]

YOU are the one who brought up the premise of individual effort, which I was responding to. I was pointing out that individual effort does not get rewarded if the team fails. Non-contributing baddies from the winning team earn more rewards.

 

To use an analogy from someone else who posted earlier, Michael Jordan: If he had an all-star performance, but his team still lost the game, did he still get paid? Of course he did. That's all we're saying here. This new "reward" system is broken. Winners should of course earn more, but losing teams should not get the shaft, especially in the form of credits.

 

 

 

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, so I'll just join the others LOLing at you.

 

first off Jordan has credit, guy proved himself over and over. If he had been a loser he wouldn't of got paid jack. He would be down at the local YMCA paying to play like all us other losers.

[Fexhie]

If Jordan and Larry Byrd played against 5 3rd string players from the worst team in the NBA, who would win?

 

the answer is the 5-player team, 100% of the time.

 

I doubt Jordan and Larry would put themselves in a position where they were paying 15 dollars a month for an online service that had them pitted against such overwhelming odds. It is sad, but if your on an underpopulated server you should either quit or make a new character somewhere else. I hate to say it, but it is all you can really do. Giving everyone in the game free **** b/c you don't have enough population is not the answer.

[NobleRogue]

If 3rd string basketball players got 0 money for the time they put into the game how long do you think they will stay?

 

Time + effort vs reward. Take away all or most of the reward people won't put in the time anymore. I don't blame them.

 

At least pre-1.2 even the losing team came away with something to have them hopping back into the ring and make a genuine effort. Those doing the bare minimum at least got enough out of it before stopping so that people who gave it their all could have the court to themselves for a while.

[Beardamus]

How long did this match last? I can't see a 4 on 8 lasting much longer than 5 minutes. You don't think 50 coms is worth five minutes? You think you are being penalized because you didn't get a paltry sum of credits for winning? They had more people and you lost, you did well, feel good about the match b/c you probably had more medals than some of them did. Come on man punished? I used to love losing huttball, I could get 500 valor x 3 in the amount of time it took me to lose 1 civil war or voidstar.

 

And really...about the credits. You could pvp all day every day and the only credit gain you will really get is the credits from the pvp quests and the bags, now that they took bags out the game your credits are just not gonna move at all even if you win every pvp match and you play them all day everyday, I could make more credits killing 1 group of mobs than I earn in an entire winning pvp match.

 

Yeah the game was about 5 minutes long, and yeah 50 comms would have been nice (I did get 11 at least). I received zero credits. This isn't about not being rewarded though.

 

I love huttball, I'm a full defense guardian and I'm totally built for it.

 

However, when half my team leaves and I get my face kicked in for 5 minutes, thats just uncool. It would be one thing if I had a chance, but this game just felt meaningless.

[Chocula]

Bro

 

No one wants to be rewarded for losing and preforming badly. No one is saying that. But you assume that all things are equal in SWTOR PvP land. That everyone has the same gear and expertise and no one has the advantage.

 

Fact is there is a severe faction imbalance across multiple servers. One side is simply dominated by the other. This leaves one side with a easy gear grind and the other with a very hard gear grind.

 

With the old system even if you lost and preformed well (got your 4 medals) you got enough WZ comms to make it worth your while. You could at least compete in the gear grind with those who were winning.

 

Now there is no way. Players who lose more than half of there matches are looking at well over 520+ hours to get a War Hero set. You break that down it equates to roughly 6 months or more of grinding WZ 6 hours a day. Players who win over half there matches are looking at 450+ hours or about 5 months of grinding 6 hours a day.

 

Sorry but I didn't sign up for a Korean grind fest MMO. I like gear progression and you need to work for it but this is a bit excessive.

 

^This

[Y-n-T]

I have read the post on this forum and see both sides I really don't think the PVP was to bad to begin with may be it should have been left alone until the cross server pvp is opened

[crchase]

Wow, what your saying is that most people who pay for the game you want to play should quit? How stupid is that? That means the game fails and then you cant play it. People have voiced serious complaints and your response is become better like me. I think you need to realize that the economics the SWTOR is this game has to make money for BW or they will stop making updates. People are stating what they want in mass. I think you have stated your opinion, but you make yourself over inflated with your ego. Please walk a mile in someone else's shoe before you say how great you are and how ungreat they are.

 

There is so much here that I disagree with but just gonna make a few comments and leave the post alone.

 

The incentive to not losing is winning.

 

Giving people gear does not make them better, as we have seen the past month and whatever since the 4 medal *******ary that has been going on. Plenty of people have great gear and still suck, and guess what they think they are ****** b/c of it and now they are here complaining on the forums b/c they can't get free stuff by losing all the time anymore. TG

 

My problem with this is not from me thinking I am a ******, it is me thinking most of the population on our server is logging in from a rehab center. Rather than play something they just can't seem to understand and still get cool stuff. I would prefer for them to get nothing and eventually quit and move to games more their speed like solitaire and tic tac toe, or heaven help them, actually try to reach out of their alcohol or drug induced haze and learn to press a key or 2.

[Kalaek]

If I end up getting put in a losing match while we are outnumbered, I will leave. Getting medals is easy when you have even teams, but very difficult when you are 5vs8. 1 medal is 0 rewards for a loss. 2-4 gets you around 20 commendations. Not worth the effort to stick around. Mind you, before this change I would be the last person in the match at the end of the 120 seconds fighting it out 1vs8.

 

Considering the cost for rated gear is now 3x higher than previously anticipated combined with lower rewards it may not even be worth my time to keep paying for a sub.

 

I ran a Civil War last night it was 5v8 we were rolled I was able to get 3 coms, I got 0 across the board. So yeah this needs to be fixed or it will be January all over again.

[Hedge]

I have read the post on this forum and see both sides I really don't think the PVP was to bad to begin with may be it should have been left alone until the cross server pvp is opened

 

 

as I stated multiple times before. PvP rewards were good the way it was pre patch.

 

Nobody really complained about the rewards not the winner not the losers.

 

I'm 90% of the time playing in a premade so it doesn't affect me a lot.

 

Thing is for all those solo queuers (and believe me there are lots) this is really a bad call.

 

We're facing chinese farming now as some people calculated allready in this thread.

 

Implementing huge farming in a game just gives them more time to develop.

 

I see one major problem. Making bad things better keeps tyhe community growing. Making good things worse breaks it down.

 

Someone told me one day : Don't fix it if it AIN't Broke

 

 

Those that call all complaints on these forums the result of crybabies rage and the fact that people whine because they want to get awarded for "participating" are mostlikely well geared teamplayers not facing much losses.

 

Be fair to yourself, pre patch was a better system that kept people playing hours, even if they lost.

[Choloe]

I'm writing this post while "Playing" and by playing I mean getting swarmed by republic forces playing mostly troopers and jedi who are killing my team as soon as they jump off the spawn point in Voidstar. So, yeah, canceling my account. **** you Bioware.

 

Coyotecalls,

 

As a Republic Player on a Sith Named Server, I can feel your pain!!!!

 

For the very-few Star Wars Galaxies players that are here that know me - they recall I almost never participated in PvP on SWG - Mainly due to the fact that my system was not 'state of the art' at that time, and 'he with the fastest connection wins' in that game...

 

Here, I had a guild-mate get me into PvP a lot more - and at first (pre-launch and a few weeks into launch) PvP was fun; I actually LOVED it... Win or Lose (which, to be honest, we lost about 40% of the time.

 

That percentage is now about 80-90% of the time. To make it worse - I play a Sage (Seer line) and I've noticed my heals are crap now, as well as I'm being interrupted much more now than prior to 1.2 release.

 

Now, I had one guy tell me "(I'm) pissed that (I) cant spam my heals like I used to and use (an exploit) like before."

 

I only have my guild as witness to what I'm about to say, but I found out about the (combo/exploit) last Sunday! So as a player that used my class "correctly" I've noticed a significant change - and had I known this was going to be the case, I would have demanded not a 'refund' of my Skill Points, but the ability to completely RESPEC to a Shadow since healing is useless...

 

I'm not a PvP player per se - but there is a serious disparity in this game when it comes to PvP that needs to be addressed for example:

 

CC's should not be able to be chained... I find myself CC'd to death - even if I break it once, that just let's me cast a Force Armor or do a quick heal before I'm CC'd until dead. There should be an immunity to CC's once a CC is applied TWICE... Applied, broken, Applied, done - no more for x-minutes.

 

The players that are flaming those of us that are "at the bottom" are the ones who obviously are reaping the rewards of the system - but after awhile, people are going to get mad enough to either quit or just stop with PvP altogether because there is no point - especially once you reach L50.

[Choloe]

But I will never, ever agree that not giving the loser an incentive to keep trying is a good idea. It's actually the exact opposite: it's a PVP killer.

 

Please people, try to understand. If you have ANYTHING of a competitive spirit, losing is NOT fun. And losing because you are undergeared is even less fun. So the most common reaction I've observed over the last 9 years, is that people just stop participating. Leaving the well-geared hardcore PVPers standing there twirling their thumbs and complaining there is no PVP to be had. Eventually, you get a situation where there are only the people in the top gear and a handful beginners who soon give up, because they don't like getting farmed. I've seen this happen in so many games, it's not even remotely funny.

 

And honestly, what is everyone's problem? Afraid of facing people on the same footing? Afraid to find out that your 'mad skillz' might actually just be your gear?

 

/QFE!

 

I could not have said it better myself! (except about winning more than losing, which is why I removed that part of the post)

Edited April 13, 2012 by Choloe

[Y-n-T]

/QFE!

 

I could not have said it better myself!

 

agreed

[oceansofmars]

The rewards from losing should only be 20% less than winning. his all or nothing mentality has no place in fun pvp.

[Kalaek]

/QFE!

 

Originally Posted by Broom

But I will never, ever agree that not giving the loser an incentive to keep trying is a good idea. It's actually the exact opposite: it's a PVP killer.

 

Please people, try to understand. If you have ANYTHING of a competitive spirit, losing is NOT fun. And losing because you are undergeared is even less fun. So the most common reaction I've observed over the last 9 years, is that people just stop participating. Leaving the well-geared hardcore PVPers standing there twirling their thumbs and complaining there is no PVP to be had. Eventually, you get a situation where there are only the people in the top gear and a handful beginners who soon give up, because they don't like getting farmed. I've seen this happen in so many games, it's not even remotely funny.

 

And honestly, what is everyone's problem? Afraid of facing people on the same footing? Afraid to find out that your 'mad skillz' might actually just be your gear?

I could not have said it better myself! (except about winning more than losing, which is why I removed that part of the post)

 

QFE bro

 

/clap

Edited April 13, 2012 by Kalaek

[darkrazzy]

bioware wants us all to unsub. thats the bottom line. they will continue to ignore the majority and do everything they can do destroy this game to accomplish this goal.

[Rachiia]

I love to pvp, so much so I'll play even when we're getting rolled. I never quit in the middle of a wz, either; I'll stick it out to the bitter end. But last night I just stopped pvping.

 

I was in several matches where we got rolled and rolled hard, mostly because we were outnumbered or the other side had high 40s. I kept queuing all the same, but then I noticed in one match I didn't get anything: no xp (sub-50s), no comms, no creds!

 

I thought this was just some glitch, so I queued, again, we got rolled again and I got nothing, again. And I mean nothing. So once more into the breach and still nada. That was enough. I stopped queuing and went questing.

 

I hope this is just some bug. If it's not there's going to be a severe dropoff of people queuing for pvp.

[sian_gali]

It is very simple, under geared people lose allot. So pre patch you just kept trying and plugging away for better gear. It was slow but you got comms and valor each time so it was worth it.

 

If you can't win now and aren't getting anything for trying.... you will never get better gear. So the lose to lose cycle will be endless for some people. They can and will give up and quit and I don't blame them.

Edited April 13, 2012 by sian_gali

[Krazed]

bioware wants us all to unsub. thats the bottom line. they will continue to ignore the majority and do everything they can do destroy this game to accomplish this goal.

 

Tinfoil hat much?

[Fexhie]

Wow, what your saying is that most people who pay for the game you want to play should quit? How stupid is that? That means the game fails and then you cant play it. People have voiced serious complaints and your response is become better like me. I think you need to realize that the economics the SWTOR is this game has to make money for BW or they will stop making updates. People are stating what they want in mass. I think you have stated your opinion, but you make yourself over inflated with your ego. Please walk a mile in someone else's shoe before you say how great you are and how ungreat they are.

 

I am saying I would quit. If I was not getting a service that I pay for then I would not pay for it. Truth is there are a ton of servers out there that can barely manage 1 warzone match an hour and when it spawns it is underpopulated to 1 side. This is not a service people should be paying for. Bioware should of implemented a server merge when the populations on these servers started dwindling.

 

The only other option is to make a new character on a server that actually has people on it. Atleast as far as I see it.

 

GIving the entire game free stuff b/c there are server population imbalances is not the answer, and I hoped they learned their lesson. The 4 medal super rewards thing really ticked me off and I almost quit from it. IMO it felt like I woke up one day and the entire game was being exploited to give everyone pvp rank. I was the 2nd person on my side to get battlemaster on shadowlands. There was maybe 10 to 15 of us on republic when that patch hit. 2 days after patch there was triple that number. The game had not even been out 2 months and they decided to "give" away battlemaster rank. All you had to do was go into a wz and afk for five minutes while your team lost.

 

In one day, I have seen a marked improvement to the amount of people actually trying to win matches. So yeah I am pretty damn happy with the patch.

 

What I don't want is people who have population issues coming on to the servers and making it out to be unfair reward wise in pvp because they just don't have the population!

A mismatched population match is not a rewards problem dangit. It is biowares problem for not addressing the imbalance on your server.

[Varicite]

Really? You seriously are calling him out on that? The lowest ranked player on the other team is going to get more medals than the top loser simply because thats the way the system works. It will be like this everymatch, There are a few situations where this might not be the case but for the most part it is. Being on a losing team gives junk rewards, thats a fact and I don't think anyone with any sense is disputing that. However I am of the opinion this is better than how it was, so I am fine with it.

 

The lowest ranked winner is still above the highest ranked loser in real life, usually.

 

At least where it counts, which is their paychecks.