The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[Ovanmaru]

My server is balanced, and my side usually loses (Empire). The Republic is simply better organized than we are, usually.

 

I don't think the change is that bad at all. People should play to win. Now if they'd only do something about games starting unevenly, and I think it would be fine.

 

No, I don't think getting steamrolled by a premade is a valid complaint; this will happen in any game w/ PvP, no matter where you go. You can always counter it by forming a premade of your own.

 

Just because you feel the need to be rewarded JUST AS MUCH AS THE WINNERS for being on the losing team doesn't mean that we all feel that way.

 

I mean, the OP played a game and lost, and got half the rewards he would have gotten if he had won. That seems fair enough to me.

^this and only this.

 

Maybe now you people will actually learn how to play so that you can start winning games and EARN your rewards. It's crazy I know, but this game dose not revolve around you or losers.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Ovanmaru

[Swidgin]

WIN.

 

You lose your lucky to get anything in my opinion.

[Graelkat]

But if you have no hope of capturing the objective b/c you are in a pug playing against pros, you are faced with the following q:

 

should i totally waste another 15 minutes to get zero or near zero reward, or quit this thing.

 

Eventually the "quit this thing" question becomes broader -- like should I waste another few hours trying to win or "quit this game." Again, examine the history of DCUO. Great game, great launch, flawed pvp mechanics so casuals couldn't win. Within a year, DCUO goes from dozens of full servers to two "mega" servers to F2P, laying off devs along the way.

[KaKiMi]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

Thought they already did this... it's called 1.2, BM without vrank preq?

Why the f*ck are you people still whining? seriously just, get lost or join an RP server and create your own Renegade or something

[Sir-Coffee]

My server is balanced, and my side usually loses (Empire). The Republic is simply better organized than we are, usually.

 

I don't think the change is that bad at all. People should play to win. Now if they'd only do something about games starting unevenly, and I think it would be fine.

 

No, I don't think getting steamrolled by a premade is a valid complaint; this will happen in any game w/ PvP, no matter where you go. You can always counter it by forming a premade of your own.

 

Just because you feel the need to be rewarded JUST AS MUCH AS THE WINNERS for being on the losing team doesn't mean that we all feel that way.

 

I mean, the OP played a game and lost, and got half the rewards he would have gotten if he had won. That seems fair enough to me.

 

Half of 100 comms are 50 comms. Half of 6600credits are 3300credits.

 

Last night, every game with 12 medals+, I only got 40 comms, and 0 credits.

[Jeopardydd]

WIN.

 

You lose your lucky to get anything in my opinion.

 

 

1) "of course you get destroyed in your bad gear!"

 

2) "of course you don't get rewards for getting destroyed"

 

now Swidgin, can you sport the catch-22?

[EndlessObsession]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

I definitely don't want to be generously rewarded for losing a match. And I don't want to get War Hero equipment for free. But ending up with 30 to 40 commendations after playing for 15 minutes and not doing that bad is very frustrating.

 

I always liked PvP on SWTOR and it is the main reason I'm still playing it. Therefore I utterly hope BioWare will rework this.

 

I am just using your post as an example. Why are so many people saying "I don't think I should get rewarded for losing, but..." Don't be afraid to stand up and make some noise! This system is RIDICULOUS. You deserve just as many commendations as the winning team if you get half the medals they get in a loss. The winners SHOULD NOT GEAR UP FASTER becuase they're the most skilled/organized/have the most time on their hands. Everyone should have equal chance at the gear regardless of wins/losses based only on time invested.

[Swidgin]

1) "of course you get destroyed in your bad gear!"

 

2) "of course you don't get rewards for getting destroyed"

 

now Swidgin, can you sport the catch-22?

 

I did NOT think of that.

 

You are right, I am wrong.

 

Until rateds that is.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Swidgin

[TOGFelix]

the new system is a joke, speak out against it. Wtb revert to 1.1.5

 

this has caused every game to become a tdm zerg and has made wz leaving 50 times more frequent.

 

You lose if you don't have bm gear, yet losing will give you between nothing and almost nothing, yet you need something to buy bm gear, worst catch-22 ever.

 

^^ ofe ^^

[Varicite]

But if you have no hope of capturing the objective b/c you are in a pug playing against pros, you are faced with the following q:

 

should i totally waste another 15 minutes to get zero or near zero reward, or quit this thing.

 

Eventually the "quit this thing" question becomes broader -- like should I waste another few hours trying to win or "quit this game." Again, examine the history of DCUO. Great game, great launch, flawed pvp mechanics so casuals couldn't win. Within a year, DCUO goes from dozens of full servers to two "mega" servers to F2P, laying off devs along the way.

 

You are pretending that if you happen to get into a pug that can't handle a premade, this exact same situation will happen to you EVERY SINGLE MATCH and that you will never win.

 

That's not the case. We all lose.

 

Even the people you lost to.

 

Why do people act like it's some perpetual system of constant losses?

[Varicite]

Half of 100 comms are 50 comms. Half of 6600credits are 3300credits.

 

Last night, every game with 12 medals+, I only got 40 comms, and 0 credits.

 

Oh no, you got 10 less comms than half. 6k credits every 15 mins is nothing; go gather for 5 minutes and you can top that. Do 1 daily for 5 minutes and you'll get 4x that much.

 

Cry me a river.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Varicite

[Darth-Malkaevian]

The rewards system is not based off of skill. It is based off of an arbitrarily decided set of metrics that the Devs hope actually encourage objective based game play. In some cases it will. In some cases it won't. And the system is fairly opaque and not particularly well explained by the company that produced it.

 

Also, I do not understand this attitude that somehow giving people rewards for participating in PvP (even if they "loose" to quote you) cheapens your victory. You still won. They still lost. You will still get more rewards faster than them and you will always be better than them. The difference is encouraging people to play instead of punishing them for it (in game terms) will allow you to have PvP experiences in this game.

 

If professional sports league were run the way many people in this thread suggest, they would completely collapse. Do pro sports teams practice to get better? Yes they do. But if your team has a bad season, it actually gets better compensation in the form of high draft picks to make up for it b/c they want to encourage parity and competition.

 

Just imagine what would happen if the NFL started a new policy giving the Super Bowl winners the first pick in the draft. They would have access to top talent every year and would, on average, perform far better than most the other teams because of it. And the other teams would have little chance to catch up b/c they could only ever access inferior talent in the draft or pricey free agents. Eventually the "have nots" would lose fan support due to mounting loses on the field and be forced into financial insolvency. It would be a horrible business model. And so is what they are doing with PvP right now.

 

 

What you don't get though is that if you reward people for loosing, without a large gap (Between rewards for winning and loosing) Then people will not try to win, they will simply log into the match and do whatever they like and not even bother to try and complete the objective because they know they are getting rewarded no matter what, and said reward is comparable to the winning team (if a bit less).

 

Providing significantly less rewards, encourages players to put forth the effort to gain skill and learn how to "win" as a team, thus making the match more fun, because in real life if you lose, you get jack ****. So you want to win so you learn how to win and practice and get better at it.

 

I believe this is a Mentality which has been missing from the MMO industry for decades. And personally I am Glad Bioware has implemented it. it means I can log into a match "usually" and know the people in that room are going to go to their limits to help me as a team member and do the best we can to win, instead of running off and doing whatever the hell they want and causing us to loose.

 

This patch takes "Complacency" out of PvP. You no longer get rewarded anywhere close for loosing, so now you have to learn to win or at least be a team player.

 

If you are not happy not being able to simply log in spam some pvp matches and get rewarded because your "EL3IT3" and can kill and do all by yourself, well sorry bout your luck, that's not what War Zones are about.

 

Warzones are about TEAM, OBJECTIVES. Don't learn how to complete the OBJECTIVES as a team, expect to loose. If you Loose, do not expect to be rewarded what you would for winning or anywhere near it.

 

Don't like it? That's cool there are plenty of other things to do in SWTOR besides PvP.

 

I would rather pvp with a team that acts like a team, then a bunch of hotheads who think their L33T because they get a lot of kills and then get mad when they loose, because they don't even get the basic understanding of the Point of a "Warzone".

[Jeopardydd]

You are pretending that if you happen to get into a pug that can't handle a premade, this exact same situation will happen to you EVERY SINGLE MATCH and that you will never win.

 

That's not the case. We all lose.

 

Even the people you lost to.

 

Why do people act like it's some perpetual system of constant losses?

 

with the cost of the new gear and the low amount you get from losses, it could literally take years of playing hours every day to get the gear if you are losing a large % of games (which will be the case if you are a pug on the minority faction).

 

that is a huge problem. not for you, i'm sure. but for many people.

[cedarghost]

I hit 50 the night before the patch hit. After the patch, I bought my BM weapon and relics and purchased the blue "recruit" set and was off to my first level 50 wz's. I did notice that some matches I was getting 50 comms and some matches I got around 100.

Now, a lot of the 50's I was competing against were full BM, but I was still able to stay competitive. I never finished lower that 5th and even grabbed a couple of first place finishes in about 6 to 8 matches.

I was a little disappointed to not consistently get close to 100 comms every match, but I will just have to see how it plays out. It doesn't bug me too much being the first day of pvp under 1.2 and because I know gear isn't everything.

Like I said, I bought the recruit set, which anyone else can do as well.

That being said, I can understand your pain. You feel like you are getting cheated out of comms. I understand why you feel like that, as I was expecting way more comms than I got when I did well but my team lost.

I want my gear too, just like you, but I love pvp and I am going to keep doing it. The gear will come when it comes and I will be even better. But again, gear isn't everything.

Edited April 13, 2012 by cedarghost

[Graelkat]

You don't need to be rewarded 100 coms for losing, but the system should be designed to be rewarding enough keep casual people playing. Otherwise, all the unemployed pvp pros out there will be standing around whistling in the fleet waiting for ages for Huttball and Novare to pop.

 

And for all you frustrated casual players (who have now contributed to about a dozen threads on this topic), have you seen the TSW videos? Looks pretty cool.

[Darth-Malkaevian]

Half of 100 comms are 50 comms. Half of 6600credits are 3300credits.

 

Last night, every game with 12 medals+, I only got 40 comms, and 0 credits.

 

You don't usually get 100 medals for wining (This is very rare) the average is 80 - 95, and half of 80 is 40.

 

So yea it is about half depending on your individual performance toward the team goal.

 

I get about 59 - 65 Coms even when loosing horrifically. So what you need to do is ask yourself :

 

"am I being a team player? or doing my own thing? What is it that the winning team is doing to win? that I can do so I can win also?"

 

Because if your not, don't expect much in the form of rewards.

[Jeopardydd]

What you don't get though is that if you reward people for loosing, without a large gap (Between rewards for winning and loosing) Then people will not try to win, they will simply log into the match and do whatever they like and not even bother to try and complete the objective because they know they are getting rewarded no matter what, and said reward is comparable to the winning team (if a bit less).

 

Providing significantly less rewards, encourages players to put forth the effort to gain skill and learn how to "win" as a team, thus making the match more fun, because in real life if you lose, you get jack ****. So you want to win so you learn how to win and practice and get better at it.

 

I believe this is a Mentality which has been missing from the MMO industry for decades. And personally I am Glad Bioware has implemented it. it means I can log into a match "usually" and know the people in that room are going to go to their limits to help me as a team member and do the best we can to win, instead of running off and doing whatever the hell they want and causing us to loose.

 

This patch takes "Complacency" out of PvP. You no longer get rewarded anywhere close for loosing, so now you have to learn to win or at least be a team player.

 

If you are not happy not being able to simply log in spam some pvp matches and get rewarded because your "EL3IT3" and can kill and do all by yourself, well sorry bout your luck, that's not what War Zones are about.

 

Warzones are about TEAM, OBJECTIVES. Don't learn how to complete the OBJECTIVES as a team, expect to loose. If you Loose, do not expect to be rewarded what you would for winning or anywhere near it.

 

Don't like it? That's cool there are plenty of other things to do in SWTOR besides PvP.

 

I would rather pvp with a team that acts like a team, then a bunch of hotheads who think their L33T because they get a lot of kills and then get mad when they loose, because they don't even get the basic understanding of the Point of a "Warzone".

 

 

your post would only make sense if people are usually losing because they are not trying and that they would be winning if they try.

 

that is largely not the case. there are big gear, faction, and grouping imbalances, not to mention that any individual is just one of 8 players (ha, on my server, it was more like 1 of 4 people on my teams!).

 

because your premise is incorrect, the rest of your post is incorrect as well.

[Vember]

I get about 59 - 65 Coms even when loosing horrifically.

 

I got less than 30 several times last night.

[Naserick]

Funny thing is, it is mostly the "I did 500k damage" crowd who loses the wz....

 

For the most part, they are killing people in mid arena in HB when there is a carrier who needs support near the endzone, they are killing people between turrets instead of defending or capping them, they are not disarming/planting or even backing up those who are, they are NOT winning the warzone, they would be happier in an open pvp area...

 

I was on a team which OBSCENELY won ACW pre patch, I have no idea what the 300k damage guy did for his three MVP votes, I know a healer and I defended center turret, I capped a side turret and the third turret was back and forth. Maybe that 300k damage guy will be more active in winning now that winning grants the reward rather than look at my damage!!!!

 

and if you had lost said wf and got next to nothing for your attempts? what if you were on a faction that statistically lost a greater number of times and was then further reduced in it's capabilities to fight back?

 

Remember this is a game in which "we" are the consumers. If the majority of us arn't satisfied then we will leave. If enough of us leave, this game will fail.

Losing constantly do to circumstances that are beyond our control, ie~ our incompetent team mates, is not fun and we will leave as a result.

[PullinStuff]

You are pretending that if you happen to get into a pug that can't handle a premade, this exact same situation will happen to you EVERY SINGLE MATCH and that you will never win.

 

That's not the case. We all lose.

 

Even the people you lost to.

 

Why do people act like it's some perpetual system of constant losses?

 

The reason why is because it is a system of perpetual losses to them....

 

The reason why it is a "Catch 22" for them is because they are stuck on the easy money mentality, win or lose does not matter, get 4 medals and coast...

 

Now it is a matter of winning the match, being organized and playing an MMO as an MMO, not as a single player with better AI.

 

pre 1.2 I had finished warzones with 2 medals but still won the zone, why, because all the opposing players were too busy not focusing objectives, just racking kills, damage, healing ect.

 

Nice to know that now the rewards are going to the victors not some moron who should just play open pvp areas....

[Jeopardydd]

The reason why is because it is a system of perpetual losses to them....

 

The reason why it is a "Catch 22" for them is because they are stuck on the easy money mentality, win or lose does not matter, get 4 medals and coast...

 

Now it is a matter of winning the match, being organized and playing an MMO as an MMO, not as a single player with better AI.

 

pre 1.2 I had finished warzones with 2 medals but still won the zone, why, because all the opposing players were too busy not focusing objectives, just racking kills, damage, healing ect.

 

Nice to know that now the rewards are going to the victors not some moron who should just play open pvp areas....

 

your post would only make sense if people are usually losing because they are not playing as a team and that they would be winning if they play better.

 

that is largely not the case. there are big gear, faction, and grouping imbalances, not to mention that any individual is just one of 8 players (ha, on my server, it was more like 1 of 4 people on my teams!).

 

because your premise is incorrect, the rest of your post is incorrect as well.

[Sir-Coffee]

Oh no, you got 10 less comms than half. 6k credits every 15 mins is nothing; go gather for 5 minutes and you can top that. Do 1 daily for 5 minutes and you'll get 4x that much.

 

Cry me a river.

 

Who's cry? Stop trying to defend a horrible game design.

 

I complete all dailies whenever I can. But that doesn't mean I will be a selfish human being like you, and not think about other people who only play this game to PvP.

[Fexhie]

and if you had lost said wf and got next to nothing for your attempts? what if you were on a faction that statistically lost a greater number of times and was then further reduced in it's capabilities to fight back?

 

Remember this is a game in which "we" are the consumers. If the majority of us arn't satisfied then we will leave. If enough of us leave, this game will fail.

Losing constantly do to circumstances that are beyond our control, ie~ our incompetent team mates, is not fun and we will leave as a result.

 

Like I said, republic players on my server are terrible! We lose like crazy even with great 4 man premades. We just can not compensate for those other four terrible players when we are up against 8 people who know how to press buttons. Don't get me wrong when I am grouped we usually win more than we lose. But Rep. as a whole loses many more matches than empire does. We just have terrible players.

 

I am absolutely in favor of not rewarding losses. People need to learn to play or decide it is not worth their time to play b/c they are useless. I want to win more matche and play more competitive games with people who actually understand how to play an mmo. I am really really tired of carrying useless people in matches. With the new recruit gear there should be absolutely no excuses for not being geared enough. Recruit gear is great starter stuff and hell some of it is better than champion.

[Bolanos]

I didn't get a chance to play last night but from what I'm reading it doesn't sound good. However, from what I'm reading it sounds that the biggest problem is not the loosing part itself but the people leaving the match when they see they can't win. This puts the loosing team in even a worse situation. The people that stick it out should be given a chance to 'turn the tide' of the battle, but they can't do that if they are being steamrolled like I have been reading through the boards at a 4 to 8 disadvantage.

 

Perhaps an idea, which the winning side will really hate, are forcefields like in Voidstar. If a team starts with only X number of players, the forcefield on the opposing team side will only allow the first X amount players through. When one of them dies then another person can run through the field. If the other team gains another player then the force field will allow one extra player through. This will allow the matches to be fair, 4 on 4 or 5 on 5. I know no one wants to be standing behind a forcefield but it's really the only way to get a truly fair warzone match where both sides have a fair chance.

 

As it stands now, on my server, out of 10 warzones, the republic will normally win 1, but I'm still putting in 3 hours of my time. This time should be rewarded, otherwise I don't see a reason to PvP with my republic toons and will probably just roll an imp so I can progress and feel as if I'm actually getting something for my time and efforts.

 

You guys have to remember it's just a game, however, we do put real life time behind it and we would like to see something for that time. It's not my fault that on my server the republic is always loosing. I can't stop that by myself, especially when on my server, most games start at a 5v8 for the first two minutes of the game, so the republic almost always start at a disadvantage.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Bolanos

[Sir-Coffee]

You don't usually get 100 medals for wining (This is very rare) the average is 80 - 95, and half of 80 is 40.

 

So yea it is about half depending on your individual performance toward the team goal.

 

I get about 59 - 65 Coms even when loosing horrifically. So what you need to do is ask yourself :

 

"am I being a team player? or doing my own thing? What is it that the winning team is doing to win? that I can do so I can win also?"

 

Because if your not, don't expect much in the form of rewards.

 

Every game I won, I had 100 comms. But then again... I had 12 medals at the end of each game playing towards the objective.