Ravage

[kweassa]

Furthermore marauders are a joke to any Sniper/Gunslinger (they're certainly the easiest kills for sniper - slightly tougher than a sorcerer without a bubble, but at least the sorcerer can fight back).

 

...and it is in this wonderful aspect I've found out Combat/Carnage tree, actually has a pretty decent chance against Gunslingers/Snipers. While the most universal and viable Watchman/Annihilation tend to be pretty overmatched, the one small thing, Force Camo breaking root in Combat/Carnage... actually gives a very viable option for combat - coupled with the huge burst strikes that can take significantly damage Gunslingers/Snipers in a given window of opportunity. What I've confirmed, is that the very typical anti-Sentinel/Marauder tactics most Gunslingers/Snipers use, don't really work well with Combat/Carnage, and they need to improvise a lot - which in turn, also brings them into an unfamiliar territory.

 

This is why I think SWTOR is a lot more profound than people think - the most wide-spread Sentinal/Marauder build, is countered by a class that everyone thought was gimped in the opening phases of the game... and then, a less prominent (pretty rare, actually) and more squishy Sentinel/Marauder build that seemed to run out of popularity, turns out to be a counter-counter to the normal Gunslinger/Sniper tactic.

 

Certainly there are lots more to learn about all classes and all builds, and many of those we've considered "gimped" so far. IMO, researching and experimenting with those, is one of the most fun aspects of PvP.

[SinnedWill]

Leap root, start beating on sorc until they try to use an escape like knockback- trauma debuff root to waste their sprint- force choke if they manage to get sprint/knockback when I don't have a root ready, or they CC break.

 

Then, once all their escapes are done, leap's back up so root again if they've gotten away, if not- gore, ravage- 3k 3k 4k, execute.

 

Dead.

 

 

Free wins til it gets fixed- it'll never get fixed because BW devs all play marauders- free wins til everyone is smart and either unsubs or rerolls as the only good class- the marauder.

 

Leap to madness sorc, proc gore, start ravage, get knocked back - sorcerer bubble either barely broken or not at all. Deadly saber (10m ranged root) madness sorc, madness sorc. uses creeping terror (ranged root + DoT) + affliction + force slow + death field, and stays ~8m away - as you pop force camo to regain melee ranage, melee range obtained, gore has worn off, you massacre/battering assault/apply slow while waiting for gore CD - madness sorcerer uses electrocute after you gore, and finishes mara with shock, death field, force lightning and crushing darkness. Strafe-casting madness sorc just rocked your world while still maintaining 80% or more health. Free losses to carny maras (have a madness sorc. and a carny mara myself) - only marauder that can beat my sorc. is an annihilation mara that has gotten 4 DoT's+slow, 2 annihilate crits (high-spectrum crits) on me and I can't manage to LoS - which only occurs when I've screwed up which isn't very often.

[kuey]

When I said start at 3.47 I didn't mean the skill that is being used at 3.47 but rather a little later. I know the difference between thundering blast and force lightning.

 

So, um, did you actually watch that video? Highest force lightning damage was a crit of 698 lol. Totally the..

 

 

 

skip to 3.47 and already there are several ticks where lighting does over 1.2k damage.

As far as I can tell this guy is not even stimed or adrenaled.

 

...that you said there.

 

You do realise the guy casting this vid was 49 right? I.e. no expertise bonuses. No expertise, with no adrenals and no relics. Not a chance in hell his FL is gonna hit for over 1k (his normal hits were under 500 a tick).

 

Re your points on Ravage. I agree that it's perfectly fine for Juggs and non-Carnage specs. I don't recall ever saying the I thought it was OP, I was just pointing out the differences between force lightning and ravage. But I admit that I should of specified Carni specs instead of Ravage as a whole.

 

Totally disagree that Carni revolves around Ravage. My Combat Sent does perfectly fine whilst Master Strike is on its CD. Maybe it's because I run pre-mades and don't have to rely solely on myself as I don't often engage in death matches in WZs since I'm too busy helping my team out.

 

Saving up CCs? Not always possible. PvP atm is about WZs, WZs are about objectives, sometimes you have to bust your CDs for either defensive or offensive purposes relating to objectives. Going "sorry guys I couldn't keep em back with my CCs and let you cap cause I needed to save my skills for a Ravage from a Carni Mara" isn't going to cut it.

[Vales]

 

skip to 3.47 and already there are several ticks where lighting does over 1.2k damage.

As far as I can tell this guy is not even stimed or adrenaled.

 

Granted this is dated a few month ago, and there may have been a few nerf which I am not aware of, but as the global expertise is increase the damage should be higher.\

 

Also

 

 

 

Long story short, it can be done.

 

PS. this is not a thread about nerfing mara or the like. This is a thread about ravage. Just like to say this as a reminder.

 

The vid is from last year.

Level 49

Try again.

 

Also at 3:47 I see a Thundering Blast criting for ~1800.

At 4:04 he uses Lightning. Hits for 400 crits for 700.

 

Grats you have proven me right. By the way I still eat up to 6.5k from Juggers and Maras with nearly full BM (1k Expertise)

While I see my TK Throw as low as 300 against heavy armor.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Vales

[ComeAndSee]

100% armor ignore + Ravage = lawl >_>

[SinnedWill]

...and it is in this wonderful aspect I've found out Combat/Carnage tree, actually has a pretty decent chance against Gunslingers/Snipers. While the most universal and viable Watchman/Annihilation tend to be pretty overmatched, the one small thing, Force Camo breaking root in Combat/Carnage... actually gives a very viable option for combat - coupled with the huge burst strikes that can take significantly damage Gunslingers/Snipers in a given window of opportunity. What I've confirmed, is that the very typical anti-Sentinel/Marauder tactics most Gunslingers/Snipers use, don't really work well with Combat/Carnage, and they need to improvise a lot - which in turn, also brings them into an unfamiliar territory.

 

This is why I think SWTOR is a lot more profound than people think - the most wide-spread Sentinal/Marauder build, is countered by a class that everyone thought was gimped in the opening phases of the game... and then, a less prominent (pretty rare, actually) and more squishy Sentinel/Marauder build that seemed to run out of popularity, turns out to be a counter-counter to the normal Gunslinger/Sniper tactic.

 

Certainly there are lots more to learn about all classes and all builds, and many of those we've considered "gimped" so far. IMO, researching and experimenting with those, is one of the most fun aspects of PvP.

 

On my MM sniper, if a Carny Mara (or any marauder for that matter) comes into melee, I'll open with cover pulse, followed by explosive probe + corrosive dart and start an activated snipe (usually marauder force camos for exactly this, if not it's already over). After they camo, I break cover, move a little bit, and entrench (ballistic dampers obtained, instant snipe obtained), marauder gets a hit or two in, I retarget them, use laze target + snipe followed by debilitate and activate a shortened activation time ambush (mara usually stun-breaks, but ambush goes off knocking them back) followed by followthrough and a leg shot. Game over. If marauder doesn't sneak up on me to get those first hits, it's already game over. If cover pulse is on cooldown, Diversion's accuracy debuff is enough for me to survive long enough to kill them. If anything, rage marauders (rage juggs are better, really) stand the best chance against a Marksman Sniper. I can see carnage marauder doing well against Engineer/Lethality snipers but even when I'm on my carny mara, those fights tend to go 50/50 - good marskman snipers have no problems with Carny Maras so I either avoid them on my Carny or only engage them with support.

[SinnedWill]

100% armor ignore + Ravage = lawl >_>

 

If you get a full ravage channel done and every hit crits (including off-hand attacks landing), yes. But that doesn't happen. If someone lets you complete a full ravage cycle with a gore proc, they deserve it and unless they're very slow to learn or so stubborn they believe that they shouldn't take significant damage without having to employ any defensives or counters then this likely will not happen to them a second time.

Edited May 8, 2012 by SinnedWill

[LittleSeaBass]

I think "cannot be interrupted" means something totally different to BW. This skill gets interrupted all the time. Kind of lame to put that in the description, only to find out it isn't true.

[Blloodbane]

I play a Carnage Mara and I can say this AC and Tree is pretty much Feast or Famine...

 

If you have some healing love then you can cause some severe carnage (pun intended)... if you are dependent on your escapes and med packs and healing out of combat, numbers drop...

[LiveandDieinLA]

There are a ton of instances in this game of uninterruptable abilities:

BodyGuard Merc with his bubble up.

Tank Assassins using their force lightning (which heals them btw)

Snipers / gunslingers doing whatever it is that they do.

 

Im sure there are more which I am forgetting, but the point is why is this OP for Warriors and Knights but not op for the other classes?

[SinnedWill]

I think "cannot be interrupted" means something totally different to BW. This skill gets interrupted all the time. Kind of lame to put that in the description, only to find out it isn't true.

 

What this means is that interrupt skills cannot be used (effectively applying lockouts) - similar to what cover does for sniper/gunslinger. Physics-based effects (knockbacks/knockdowns/pushes), stuns, and mezzes still cause skill "disruption" - which have better result on a skill such as this due to its cooldown time being longer than any lockout time from an interrupt, so this causes boons and banes. Ravage benefits from being immune to interrupts since people can no longer keep it locked out permanently (certain classes with talents can almost achieve this). Ravage suffers from this due to the fact that the majority of all interrupts tend to be 4s duration (thus, they would be able to reuse ravage again, even if it had done some of its damage 4s after an interrupt). Albeit, before 1.2, if ravage was interrupted (with an interrupt mind you), it still behaved abnormally compared to other activated/channeled skills and would remain unusable until its cooldown time expired (in other words, it was bugged and VERY EASILY rendered useless).

[fungihoujo]

Leap to madness sorc, proc gore, start ravage, get knocked back - sorcerer bubble either barely broken or not at all. Deadly saber (10m ranged root) madness sorc, madness sorc. uses creeping terror (ranged root + DoT) + affliction + force slow + death field, and stays ~8m away - as you pop force camo to regain melee ranage, melee range obtained, gore has worn off, you massacre/battering assault/apply slow while waiting for gore CD - madness sorcerer uses electrocute after you gore, and finishes mara with shock, death field, force lightning and crushing darkness. Strafe-casting madness sorc just rocked your world while still maintaining 80% or more health. Free losses to carny maras (have a madness sorc. and a carny mara myself) - only marauder that can beat my sorc. is an annihilation mara that has gotten 4 DoT's+slow, 2 annihilate crits (high-spectrum crits) on me and I can't manage to LoS - which only occurs when I've screwed up which isn't very often.

 

I have no idea why you're losing to sorcs as a carn marauder, let me reread...

 

Hmm, let's see... leaps to target, opens up with big hitting ability before the sorc has wasted their knockback and stun.

 

Oh, now we know why.

 

I could rock you on my marauder, no question... then again, I also know how to get a bubble down before leap root is broken.

 

And best of all- when I have full resolve you can't do a thing to me, when you have full resolve I can still keep you locked down as a marauder. Your server must have some epically bad marauders if a sorc can beat them.

[Vodrin]

As much as I'm glad Marauder got a buff, I do not think this buff was the right way to go and agree that it is overpowered. It's prettymuch gameover now for any Sage I encounter in WZs who doesn't have their bubble applied in time.

 

Or is unlucky enough to get caught without CC's. The big problem I see is that too many players don't know what it looks like, or try to use an interrupt on it instead of a CC. Even though I have shelved my sentinel I'm ok with ravage hitting this hard right now as it is an ability that a skilled player can counter in most cases. The final hit is the one that makes the ability really sting and there are a lot of ways of stopping it from hitting with CC, evades, and just getting out of the radius. The strength of deadly saber and the 31 point ability are far more problematic in my opinion.

[Darianth]

Yea, also the range of it is very long. Ravage should instantly stop as soon as someone walks out of range. Together with the root the ability is completely broken ;X

 

You do realize the root ability is the second highest tier ability that you can spec into only as carnage or combat?

[Mumit]

I don't have much of a problem with ravage. It doesn't hit nearly as hard as people here are claiming it does, either.

 

As a sith assassin, I can't remember the last time I was hit with a full duration of it as well in a one vs one situation. I'm not saying combat should be balanced for 1v1, just saying I have a lot of outs for it.

 

A majority of it's damage is loaded onto the last tick as well, giving you two seconds to find a way out.

 

Vanish.

Stun x2

Force speed out of range.

AoE knock back.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Mumit

[Jenrais]

Its not overpowered unless your in that spec where you can snare a person and ravage at the same time

[Phlem]

Ravage

 

/Discuss

 

The ability Ravage is extremely overpowered, any thoughts on that after 1.2?

 

L2Stun, pretty simple really.

[DuriZap]

It's fine the way it is.

Enjoying your ROFL-STOMPER much?

 

Claiming it's fine as it is, will make people disregard your other points, as you just proved that you are very capable of making up mumbo jumbo.

[HurricaneXXIV]

How can a thread about a skill Mara's could honestly take off their bar and be okay still be alive?

[SinnedWill]

How can a thread about a skill Mara's could honestly take off their bar and be okay still be alive?

 

Carnage needs Ravage. Also, if someone (other than yourself) if you're Annihilation or Rage applies a stun or root, Ravage is still better than other filler attacks.

 

But back on topic: Even a power relic + expertise adrenal from a Caranage Marauder's Gore procced Ravage -arguably the most burst damage possible, and source of most of the QQ about ravage- (that runs full cycle without being disrupted) with EVERY main-hand + off-hand hits landing and critting does less damage than a 7/3/31 Powertech dishes out in 3 GCD's with relic/adrenal via railshot, flame burst, rail shot (with all 3 critting). Tankassins dish out equivalent damage (or more) to the carny mara's Gore-procced Ravage damage with 2 recklessness induced energized shocks (with trinket/adrenal in both situations) in 4 GCD's (if they get their procs with each thrash). Marksman Snipers also deal more damage than the gored ravage with explosive probe + Ambush + Followthrough. And of course concealment ops, Deception/Madness assassins can also outburst it.

 

Point I'm trying to make is: Ravage is not the issue here, it's every ability that has a high base damage happens to be gaining far more significant damage increases from expertise than abilities with lower base damages (also doesn't help when most of these classes can improve the damage on these abilities with talents i.e. 9% damage increase/90% armor penetration for railshot, 15% damage increase/auto-crit/+50% surge on shock for tankasins, +8% ravage damage for maras, etc...).