1.2 First impressions (Commando)

[katakatak]

I've unsubbed as well. I don't care for the extra 30 days. There is no fun in playing my CM Commando anymore which is a shame. Been playing since December and the Commando is a great class, but I think BW ruined it.

 

On another note, I really do believe BW is intending for fights to end quickly, if you are PVPing against a premade, you will have no chance. Focus fire will kill any Commando build before you can know it.

 

I'll be playing a Chiss gunslinger until my sub is done, and at least I'll be having fun. Change the title of the thread to '1.2 Last Impressions'

[Gabe_Grinstead]

 

I don't mean to offend you, but if you did not notice a difference in your survivability it makes me think you do not play the Combat Medic on an above average level. at least my experience as a healer in warzones differs greatly from yours

 

You are entitled to your opinion. With that said, most people want to point fingers at someone else if they have different experience that does not line up with theirs. To be fair, my statement was that I did not notice a 'HUGE' drop in survivability. There was a drop.

 

In 1.1.5 if the other team wanted me dead, I was dead.

[Nytak]

One more thing..

 

I had read reports of a delay with grav round, and unfortunately, I have to confirm it.

 

There were many times where after firing my grav round, the indication that dmg was done and a debuff was applied would come up to .5 seconds after the visuals for the attack animation and projectile finished. Often, I would already be firing off Full Auto from a CoF proc, and the fly text from the grav round and the first tick of Full Auto would appear at the same time.

 

I don't know if it is just a visual delay or of there is actually a delay in the dmg and application of the debuff, but it is something that the developers should look in to.

[Goibhnie]

My impressions last night was that very little had changed. My rotation hasn't changed at all, because I wasn't a GR spammer to begin with. Yes I noticed that GR didn't hit as hard, but with the gv at 5 DR hits hard, really hard. If you are going against a good premade you are going to get owned, doesn't matter what class you are. I soloed qued last night and about 50% the time repub won. Which honestly is way better than before for my server... (sith worm). There was only 1 time that I didn't make my 3 medals and that was against 2 premades and on the flip side highest medals I got was 17 in civil war.

 

Also like to note I am not BM and only rank 53 with mostly old champ gear and feel very little has changed overall. My survivablity still sucks and hope for some sort of buff to that end, but we aren't meant to solo or go 1v2+. Honestly I would be pretty happy with 1 or 2 more cleanse type skills to use for getting out of stunned, getting chain stunned even with the cc bar full and is getting old.

[dogenzakaminion]

I play an assault commando.

Okay, if you're done laughing...

 

Actually, full respect for playing Assualt. They are and were a perfectly viable DPS spec and have been affected the least by 1.2, which is probably why you don't notice much difference.

 

Now onto my own complaint: being a Combat Medic is now worthless. I played CM since beta and felt pretty confident about the strengths and weaknesses of the class. We had one advantage over other healers and that was ammo management and armour. We healed for less and could heal fewer people, but we could do it potentially forever. That advantage is now gone and I'll now be switching to Assault and spending a lot more time with my Vanguard.

[Penddragon]

w t f

 

r u doing with us BW???? u ****ed our best shots! no longer wants trooper in the game? best to solve this mess pretty quickly.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Notannos
language

[Stovokor]

You aren't in the minority at all. It is very common for DPS players to complain that healing was OP.

 

Then again, it is very common for them to have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Anyone with a balanced opinion would have observed that pre 1.2 Commando healers were OP in PvP. It would have taken a special level of mediocrity to not have taken advantage of it. This is from perspective of a Commando Medic. Many players have also expressed similar sentiment to me in regards to Commando / BH healing in PvP.

[-Hege-]

Allright, I'm not an Commando but we had all our guild members go and check out their damage dones, here are some examples:

 

Shadow Tank: 850 Damage Per Second

Sentinel: 1180 Damage Per Second

Scoundrel: 1240 Damage Per Second

Sage: 1160 Damage Per Second

Gunslinger: 1350 Damage Per Second:

Commando: 1520 Damage Per Second, SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU CRYING ABOUT?

[Arzoo]

Allright, I'm not an Commando but we had all our guild members go and check out their damage dones, here are some examples:

 

Shadow Tank: 850 Damage Per Second

Sentinel: 1180 Damage Per Second

Scoundrel: 1240 Damage Per Second

Sage: 1160 Damage Per Second

Gunslinger: 1350 Damage Per Second:

Commando: 1520 Damage Per Second, SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU CRYING ABOUT?

 

 

You appear to have missed a few zeroes at the end of the Sentinel's number.

[RuQu]

Anyone with a balanced opinion would have observed that pre 1.2 Commando healers were OP in PvP. It would have taken a special level of mediocrity to not have taken advantage of it. This is from perspective of a Commando Medic. Many players have also expressed similar sentiment to me in regards to Commando / BH healing in PvP.

 

1) I don't PvP.

 

2) If the problem was PvP, there are better ways to fix it. They have been suggested and described in detail multiple times, so Im not going to repeat them all here. BW isn't interested in suggestions anyway.

[JLapp]

My gunnery initial impression (PVE) is that it doesn't feel like a lot has changed.

 

Overall rotation has absolutely no impact since I was using full auto on cooldown before. Don't really notice COF proc all that more often (it proc'd quite a bit before) but guessing it is up a little. Feels like I am using a little bit more ammo but not to a large degree.

 

The delay on Grav damage is very annoying (mostly soloing the new dailies, the damage hits basically the same time as my next ability does).

 

Demo boost to grav-round stacking has not been changed. Was attempting the new op with 4 gunnery commandos and getting demo round crits up to 10k.

 

Haven't tried any PVP yet so don't have any comments as far as those go.

[RuQu]

Allright, I'm not an Commando but we had all our guild members go and check out their damage dones, here are some examples:

 

Shadow Tank: 850 Damage Per Second

Sentinel: 1180 Damage Per Second

Scoundrel: 1240 Damage Per Second

Sage: 1160 Damage Per Second

Gunslinger: 1350 Damage Per Second:

Commando: 1520 Damage Per Second, SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU CRYING ABOUT?

 

1) How was this tested?

 

2) How did you normalize for gear differences?

 

3) How do they compare in skill? From years of MMO playing, I find it hard to believe that in your guild you don't have at least one person who always underperforms expectations and one who seems to work miracles.

 

4) Where did you get this number? From a parser? Did you check for "dead seconds" at the end of the log where they stopped attacking but were still considered in combat? That can have a huge effect if only one or two people properly cleaned their logs or if one log held more dead seconds than another.

 

5) How did you define the testing rules? All cooldowns used? Were they allowed to pre-build up any class specific stacks (ie Zen, UH)?

 

6) How long did the fights last? Many classes rely heavily on RNG, and Gunnery is an RNG spec. Perhpas he got a LOT of CoF procs during that one test, and next time he will have a long dry streak and only do 900DPS.

 

I appreciate you trying to bring numbers into the comparison, but one arbitrary and uncontrolled test by one guild of random players isn't necessarily going to show much, and it certainly won't if you don't control/correct for many of the variables and sources of error.

[dejavy]

DPS means nothing for commando when marauder's facerolling you. Give us mirror consul/sorc skills but in bullet variant and we'll see what happen. I hate anticlass theory. I'm convinced that any class must have a chance against the other. But commando is the only piece of sh... who hasn't any against equal geared melees. It was before 1.2 and now it's even worse.

 

I hate glowsticks classes, so i'm not gonna play these cloth craps. But i just give up when i see 7 red sticks approaching my team at voidstar. BW wants me to leave my trooper and spend another month playing someone else paying for subs.

 

You know what?

 

.!.

Edited April 13, 2012 by dejavy

[Stovokor]

1) I don't PvP.

 

2) If the problem was PvP, there are better ways to fix it. They have been suggested and described in detail multiple times, so Im not going to repeat them all here. BW isn't interested in suggestions anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This was the guys post in which he is clearly talking bout PvP

 

Well, I appear to be in the minority here, but healing was OP overall. I have been playing as assault (rank 71), and will continue to play as assault. I a damage-fest such as voidstar, I have been top damage each time I've been in one. The nerfs hit Grav Round/Tracer Missle, but I've still had well played Gunnery commandos tear me apart. No knee jerk from me. I have a rank 55 shadow and I prefer to play my commando still.

 

If you don't PvP why did you jump on him ??

 

You aren't in the minority at all. It is very common for DPS players to complain that healing was OP.

 

Then again, it is very common for them to have no idea what they are talking about.

[JLapp]

Anyone with a balanced opinion would have observed that pre 1.2 Commando healers were OP in PvP. It would have taken a special level of mediocrity to not have taken advantage of it. This is from perspective of a Commando Medic. Many players have also expressed similar sentiment to me in regards to Commando / BH healing in PvP.

 

It seemed pretty obvious to me healers were OP in PVP (specifically commandos and sage).

 

On my sage I jumped into 50pvp with 51/50 purple mods in orange gear and was surprised at how easy it was to survive. 1-1 I could outlast even people much better geared than I am.

 

On my commando I PVP in my rakata gear...and was pretty much impossible to take down a healer. I would spend probably 7-10s burning through 50-70% of their health and using up most of my ammo, but in a matter of 2-3s they would just have themselves topped off with hardly any resource usage.

 

The ability to win in PVP was almost completely determined by how many, or how good your healers were.

[RuQu]

This was the guys post in which he is clearly talking bout PvP

 

If you don't PvP why did you jump on him ??

 

First, I don't think my post was hostile at all, so I wouldn't call it "jumping on him." As for why I responded to a PvP post:

 

1. He is DPS.
   
2. He was speaking from a PvP perspective and said he thought healing was OP overall.
   
3. Healing got nerfed overall, not just in PvP.
   

 

While no one knows why BW does anything, because they don't feel like they need to communicate with us, it is not a large leap to see that claims of healing being OP in PvP were at least partly responsible for the substantial round of healing nerfs we have faced.

 

Finally, we see lots and lots of posts by DPS players complaining they cannot kill a healer, or that healers are hard to kill (note that they still kill them with this version of the complaint, its just more effort than they like). This is a common DPS view, although it completely fails to even attempt to view the game from the healer's perspective or view the larger balance issues that healer nerfs entail.

 

No offense was meant to the poster I was replying to, let alone to you a third party, but that mindset of "healers take effort to kill, please nerf them until they are laughably easy" is a very dangerous slippery slope for the entire game, as BW is likely to be learning soon.

[RuQu]

It seemed pretty obvious to me healers were OP in PVP (specifically commandos and sage).

 

On my sage I jumped into 50pvp with 51/50 purple mods in orange gear and was surprised at how easy it was to survive. 1-1 I could outlast even people much better geared than I am.

 

On my commando I PVP in my rakata gear...and was pretty much impossible to take down a healer. I would spend probably 7-10s burning through 50-70% of their health and using up most of my ammo, but in a matter of 2-3s they would just have themselves topped off with hardly any resource usage.

 

The ability to win in PVP was almost completely determined by how many, or how good your healers were.

 

Fix: Trauma Debuff now decreases healing done by 50%.

 

Problem solved. Adjust as needed.

 

Better fix: Class specific trauma debuffs that you can tune AC balance in WZs precisely, week to week even. But that would require more effort.

[TUXs]

10% damage reduction my **edit**!

 

Grav Rounds is hitting for much closer to 40% less, very consistently.

 

If anyone feels it isn't, I ask for your gear stats. There's no way in hell it's a "roughly" 10% reduction...NONE!

[Khalous]

GR was hitting at or very close to 10% reduced damage

 

running in 30/11 hybrid CM

 

38%crit

between 500 and 600 bonus damage

74.5% crit bonus

18% bonus expertise damage

 

Last week, in similar gear stats (a little less aim, and a lot less alacrity) I was critting on geared pvp opponents for roughly 2.7-2.9k per GR

 

I have gotten as high a crit as 3.7k on an fresh 50 inquisitor with what I assume was no expertise.

 

Last night I tested both in WZ's and on a PVP dummy and got 2.5k crits consistently, with variance depending on which cooldowns I was using at the time.

 

napkin math shows that 2.7k*0.90=~2.5k

[Goibhnie]

While several people are saying that GR was nerfed harder 10% I wonder if they are also considering the stat changes to armor, specifically pvp stats.

[SeloDaoC]

Your survivability is now so low, an operative gets you to ~20% while knocked down in BM gear, easily.

 

3200 to 2500 does now equal 10%

Edited April 13, 2012 by SeloDaoC

[Comieb]

My Grav round states 1172 - 1308 it seems to hit on the first tick non crit for about 750ish.

Granted Demo Round hitting for 4k is real nice, haven't broken 5k with it yet.

 

As for survivability. Yeah so this heavy armor im wearing is really just made out of tinfoil right? As someone has stated before me by the time an IA knocks me down and i get back up (roughly 2 seconds) im down to 30% health. At this point they usually don't bother with attacking me and just use their base attack to kill me. Nothing i can do or react to really to get away from that damage.

 

Any one melee just tear me apart and i cant compete i feel so weak defensively I know the BH side are feeling the same way. It does seem that Medium armor wearers can take more of a punishment than I.

 

I dont even want to contemplate healing as a commando i have yet to try it... im kinda scared to.

[Flying-Brian]

Demo boost to grav-round stacking has not been changed. Was attempting the new op with 4 gunnery commandos and getting demo round crits up to 10k.

 

I noticed this as well last night. We ran EV hardmode with 4 gunnery commandos, and my 1st demo round after we all stacked GR on XRR-3 hit for over 10k.

[Srepos]

I love the new patch tbh and this is why...

 

Motor is fixed> It now can hit the target i want it to, who cares if it dont hit 7 ppl at a time. You guys cry about the range nerf, but was ok before with the 2 second blue giveaway that ppl lol'ed at while they ran away.

 

Full auto animation fixed / hits HARD now> Great finisher while the target is pushing its o'crap button. Im not in the gunnery tree even and i notice a big diff. Guess most commandos were ok with the bugged and slow full auto.

 

Ui Fixes> No more smurf buff icons! I can see my targets defense buffs, good thing to know when to unload on em.

 

No godmode healers> yea im saying it, before a healer could run with a gaurd into a full group of ppl as CM and keep up easy. Im talking 2 ppl against a full wz group. I saw this happen many times and its bs imo. Not gonna happen now, u gotta heal the targets that need it and watch ammo as u do it. I dont play a CM but i saw the stupid crap that BH medics pulled with a gaurd/ hybird spec.

 

Im assault spec commando and the damage is great. Stuff goes off faster, more rotations , good combat. Oh and we can los heal. Yea if u run gunnery spec u are gonna get owned without a proper team. That tree does insaine damage , but u need a group to keep the interupts off of ya. Standing in one spot gets you killed, casting damage is just not my style. I think that the gunnery tree just needs reworked so that the graveround is a instant armorcrack that does minimal damage but builds up to a hard hitting rotation. Fixes the interupt problem in my eyes, but i dont make the game so ill keep playing assault.

 

As for balance, what mmo is balanced? Its gonna be the same crys same op classes in every game so just pick a class and deal with it. Yea it sucks in a wz when u have 3 jedi leaping on you at the same time but that doesent mean they need nerfed. FFs thats 3 ppl on you and you are being focused! Dont cry nerf cuz u get your *** handed to ya cuz 3 sorcs/jedi/powertec are beating on you. This post will prolly get hate but its full of that anyway, just reroll , unsub w/e makes you happy cuz bioware haz ur moneyz and will do what they please:D

 

Fiftycall- commando

Bababooey- Gunslinger

Mandingo - newb Vangaurd

Edited April 14, 2012 by Srepos

[LillyWhiteS]

Read the first half a dozen pages and I can't say I am surprised by the comments

 

It didn't take a genius to know that the combination of increased damage through expertise etc and reduced healing through nerfs that went way to far, would result in the problems being reported.

 

WARNINGS WERE GIVEN ABOUT THIS BW AND YOU CHOSE TO IGNORE IT.....

 

It was bad enough when just the nerfs, but then the expertise being altered AGAIN in favour of dps, was bound to make healers already running on fumes, to explode and die easily.

 

All those whines and whines and whines and whines and whines from fail dps players has worked, you now have an easy kill, enjoy it and the less heals you recieve.......