Mattellson Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 The people who are saying "its fine dont change anything stop whining" are obviously all people who are on the winning/populated faction....this is a huge step backwards BioWare, and i really hope you come to your senses and make some changes, or you are going to lose a nice chunk of your subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I don't get the leaving incentive, though. If you leave you still get no rewards, and you only have a chance of getting a better team. And all these times that you're leaving a game, you're not getting any better at playing. You're just getting better at quitting. The problem with quitters, is most of them just want to be carried to victory. If their team does something wrong they don't suggest the correct course or try to step up their game. They just sigh, curse at the team for being newbs, and /quit. Then they come to forums and ***** about the reward system. because there's a chance of doing something more productive in the game if I leave vs. staying somewhere where I'm not going to get rewards (and which are using not fun because we are getting stomped so badly that i get stunned and killed by 4 guys as soon as I get into their range). a shorter recap: to try to find something that's actually fun or gives rewards or hopefully both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdc Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Of course, I'm also talking about an era when people actually enjoyed rising to a challenge, instead of just giving up and going home as soon as it MIGHT look like a loss. I don't think the current generation of gamers would survive in an arcade, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeopardydd Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) I guess we will agree to disagree. I don't think you HAVE to at all. That was never the case in the past; that's something that's become the trend in the past 10 years or so in gaming. (ie: this generation's sense of self-entitlement bleeding over into everything else.) You see, I was simply making an off the cuff remark about how we used to play video games for fun in the past, and we didn't feel like it was "work" to play a video game. I enjoy PvPing against other players, which is why I queue up. It's the exact same reason I pumped quarters into arcade machines when I was growing up. And no, they didn't need to "reward" me for the countless hours of my life I spent playing games, because the entertainment factor of the game itself WAS the reward. Of course, I'm also talking about an era when people actually enjoyed rising to a challenge, instead of just giving up and going home as soon as it MIGHT look like a loss. i could agree with you if there wasn't a big gear advantage. playing on an equal footing but losing...fine, that can be fun. knowing that you have no chance right at the beginning because of large gear imbalances = you better at least give me something for being there because it sure ain't fun. Edited April 12, 2012 by Jeopardydd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covalent Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This was just the most asinine solution to the AFK and not playing to win problem they could have ever come up with. Instead of increasing the reward for the winning side they reduced the losing sides reward to nothing or next to nothing. Your individual skill or contribution has very little effect on your win ratio because obviously you are just a small part of your whole team. So what ends up happening is that everyone who solo queues just had their WZ average rewards massively nerfed. Additionally on servers where one side dominates the other the losing side got their rewards almost completely removed. And as a single player there is nothing you can do about it aside from forming a premade. I just cannot wrap my brain around how on earth something like this ever went live... It is so clearly an awful system for a very large part of the player base that anyone with half a brain should have been able to spot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) i could agree with you if there wasn't a big gear advantage. playing on an equal footing but losing...fine, that can be fun. knowing that you have no chance right at the beginning because of large gear imbalances = you better at least give me something for being there because it sure ain't fun. Oh, I agree the gear disadvantage due to not being able to gain valor due to games starting w/ uneven teams due to Bioware's questionable decision-making practices is terrible. The implementation of this patch was.. not tested. At all. Bioware was quite aware of this fact, but decided to put something as hefty as 1.2 on the PTS w/out any sort of character copy system in place. Simply foolish. I was just responding to some people who wanted to nitpick a comment I'd made about growing up in a time when losers didn't get rewards, and people should still be happy they get anything at all. Edited April 12, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hejjin Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 you need 3 medals to win any kind of points. if you can't even do that you're slacking or afk Hmmm Or you are one of the many people that are on a low population server / side, and you start the game with not enough players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orrow Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just cannot wrap my brain around how on earth something like this ever went live... It is so clearly an awful system for a very large part of the player base that anyone with half a brain should have been able to spot it. Simple Gabe Amatangelo has literally no clue what hes doing with PvP. Ilum. RNG PvP bags and now 1.2 prove he needs to be fired. Bioware needs someone with some actual PvP experience handling PvP development. Sadly even if a new dev can breath life back in to PvP it may be to late, Bioware fumbled this games potential and many will never come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overtone Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Now add on top to this they bumped the WZ commendations required to get the level 40 gear, HAH!!! Sorry but this is beyond stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeebie Posted April 12, 2012 Author Share Posted April 12, 2012 Why leave when your losing as you still get nothing?, well if I leave I'm not wasting my time, staying and getting smashed and still getting very little reward is not a valid use of my time. When I'm not on holidays I get 2 hours a day to play games, I am going to try make them productive, wasting 20mins on failed attempt at WZ with no real reward is not productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMaverick Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I just cannot wrap my brain around how on earth something like this ever went live... It is so clearly an awful system for a very large part of the player base that anyone with half a brain should have been able to spot it. This. End of story. Fix the blatant issues, or lose a TON of subs, I bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migrayn Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 If you perform well but your team sucks and you loose or people just up and leave after the first point and you stay to do your best why do you get no coms. If you que solo you should get rewards for what you do not what the rest of the bad team does If you get matched up with fresh 50s and no gear you will not win against a premade group of BMs. This should not cause you to get zero coms. You should get coms based on what you do. I do not have time to waste on crappy teams that dont know the basics of the match. I cant pkay 6-8 hours a day. I need my matchs to mean something . Losses that rewarx nothing are a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niconogood Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I thought of that too. With no Illum daily, most of the reasons for staying in a losing WZ is gone. It would probably be a good idea to re-add the Illum daily and also raise the rewards for a losing team. Basically this. They removed the other daily, which was basically the only reason for playing WZ more than pure fun. Now with the apocalyptic nerfs to my class and broken PvP, the fun really isnt there anymore either. They better implement the deserter debuff asap, to force people to keep playing against their will, even though they hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronepilot Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) In civil War, everyone walked out after the first 2 minutes.. (we were loosing) just me and one other person was left. I couldn't believe it. Mass desertion.. I can't blame them for going though, one person was saying to me, there is no point in staying, there is nothing to gain from this Warzone. Basically this. They removed the other daily, which was basically the only reason for playing WZ more than pure fun. Now with the apocalyptic nerfs to my class and broken PvP, the fun really isnt there anymore either. They better implement the deserter debuff asap, to force people to keep playing against their will, even though they hate it. Realistically, you can't force ANYONE to stay in a loosing WZ, people have even said to me they do not care about the penalties for leaving. I am afraid, that little solution won't work with people,. If they have had enough, they wont play, its no fun for them. The difference here is really people who are sick of being killed in seconds, and wiped out not being able to offer any kind of competition to the battle, to people who just leave, "because its huttball, or its Civil War, or its Voidstar".. leaving just because its not your favourite WZ. Edited April 12, 2012 by dronepilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKfourtyseven Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Today is the first day since i started playing this game i felt like i was simply wasting my time doing PvP. Between the extreme reduction in cash from WZs and the reduction in comms & valour i actually understand why people will quit WZs now instead of staying until the end- especially as it still puts you in losing fights. Why stay in a WZ you join that is 3-0 and its PuGs Vs premade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysico Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I was in a 1-0 loss in Huttball and got ZERO credits, 52 commendations (this was with 8 medals) and really low valor. We busted our butts to a 1-0 loss and go ZIP for our time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perihelion Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I don't know yet what I'm going to do. I haven't decided if I will drop my sub. The WZ changes have made me very unhappy as pvp is a significant part of my gameplay (and the teams I've been on have won more than they have lost). Part of my issue is that I had a fully geared champion and well on my way to bm on a pvp server. About 6 weeks ago I rerolled to a more populated server because I couldnt stand the waits for WZ's and the lack of people to group up with for premades, and fps. I was happy with my new server, even though its still not ideal to get groups going. I'm only 28 on my new server, no legacy and face a longer gear grind now because of the losses. It also looks like I got a fraction of the xp I used to when I turned in the pvp daily. Sure, I still got commendations, lol 25 on a loss, and a minimal amout of credits. Still get around a 100 on a win. I'm also not happy with the changes to my healer sage, but with that I could deal. New WZ? Big whoop, even though I only ran it once so far its just Alderaan with multiple people able to cap. It's just that with all these things, combined with the WZ changes is a classic case of the straw breaking the camel's back. With no legacy, I get nothing for this patch. PS, the lack of legacy is bugging me, though I suppose that's partly a choice I made when I decided to reroll. Lack of server merges or transfers is not my fault, though. I did like the game, very much. DID. I just don't think Bioware is going to be able to address the issues fast enough to keep subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sollon Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 somehow i get the feeling that BW next step will be penalties for leaving. not that it fixes the abysmall grind or anything but i bet george then goes like "mission acomplished " thinking that he has done some fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrocanis Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Ok, ok. I get the picture about losers being losers and winners being winners, but for the love of anything you believe add penalty for the quitters. It MUST be longer then a typical WZ. Let's say 20 min or even 30 min! I want to stay and fight. I want to turn the tide, but simply CAN'T. More then half of the team gives up after one sight of losing match and leaves. This is annoying and NOT FUN, NOT FUN, NOT FUN! To hell with rewards. I want to fight... In which case many will simply not queue. Earlier poster had it right - this should not be a zero sum game. You should gain by PLAYING and get more from winning. Not only get something if you win. Even in sports, the ranking systems give points for losses and ties. This game has now become only about winning. And my faction loses. A lot. They are not going to be getting better because of this. And the queues will suffer. A penalty will do nothing but make the problem worse. [edit] For example - the losing quarterback in a football game doesn't get a 0 quarterback rating. In fact, Sonny Jurgenson played for quite possibly the worst team in pro football at the time and had the highest quarterback rating in the game for 3 or 4 years. Edited April 12, 2012 by astrocanis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Patch 1.1: BioWare killed PvP on Ilum. Patch 1.2: BioWare killed PvP in Warzones. Patch 1.3: BioWare might kill PvP completely. What I have seen today in warzones makes me think about leaving the game behind and it gives me little hope that BioWare will get that right... wonder if we might see a hotfix in a few days on this, because it's currently beyond terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholagar Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 No, his logic was correct, yours is flawed. The old system did not reward losing; the old system rewarded participation with additional rewards for meeting certain objectives and winning the match. The new system removes the reward for participating and meeting objectives, leaving only the reward for winning. By removing the reward for participation and only rewarding winning, BW has removed the incentive to continue to participate if the player does not think he can win. This is the most concise explanation of how the system should be implemented. All you "hardcore" who think losing should give you ZIP.... thats a great system I agree.... maybe for rated WZs. Not for solo queing PUG WZs which is what we mainly have now. P.S. Can't wait to see you "hardcore" complaining when you aren't getting any rated commendations... its easy to be hardcore when you already have the best equipment available. You'll be whining like us when the rated stuff is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterin Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 you need 3 medals to win any kind of points. if you can't even do that you're slacking or afk or you're team got steamrolled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slushh Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Nope. I just got dumped into a civil war where it was 300-100 my side losing. Tough to get your medals when the rest of the team bagged it already. I stayed for the rest and tried to get medals but I only got 2. My reward was a big fat goose egg across the board. Next time I'll know to quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caeliux Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Patch 1.1: BioWare killed PvP on Ilum. Patch 1.2: BioWare killed PvP in Warzones. Patch 1.3: BioWare might kill PvP completely. What I have seen today in warzones makes me think about leaving the game behind and it gives me little hope that BioWare will get that right... wonder if we might see a hotfix in a few days on this, because it's currently beyond terrible. You are one of those in general chat crying all day long huh. Kick mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysico Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 or you're team got steamrolled True.. Trying in a huttball vs a premade, you can not get 3 medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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