clearsighted Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I just started levelling a new alt, after earning like 50+ consecutive ranks of Valor at level 50, (going from like Valor 13 to Battlemaster+). It is amazing how terrible people are in the 1-49 bracket. Everything you start taking for granted about strategy completely falls apart. There is also, a far greater divide between level 40s who have their main skills, and that level 11 or 13 sniper or marauder who feels the burning need to pvp before sprint. It's not uncommon in 1-49 to see 30kish healing as the highest heals in the wz. Though sometimes, you get a premade foursome all in their 40s, who just dominate in ways that are unholy. That's less and less common these days, since most of those guilds are practicing for ranked matches. Compare that to the fact that although there is a huge jump from Centurion to Champion, the jump from Champion to Battlemaster is much less noticable...It makes me think that most of the fresh 50s who complain about gear imbalance, while they have a certain point, are mostly getting trumped on skill. People who have made it to War Hero have invested several hundred hours of playtime into the same three warzones, day in and day out, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 You pretty much nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 There is also, a far greater divide between level 40s who have their main skills, and that level 11 or 13 sniper or marauder who feels the burning need to pvp before sprint. 304k damage powertech lvl 12 voidstar. Nobody even the 40s did better that round they weren't even close to be honest. I have no problems with low level people as long as they know what they are doing and I see a lot 30-49 that are simply horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rynis Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 It makes me think that most of the fresh 50s who complain about gear imbalance, while they have a certain point, are mostly getting trumped on skill. People who have made it to War Hero have invested several hundred hours of playtime into the same three warzones, day in and day out, after all. My view exactly, well done :]. Maybe they will see after getting the gear for nothing, that skill plays a bigger part than they think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teabaker Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Yea, it's gotten pretty boring as lvl 45 marauder in warzones. I rerolled with a few mates on the Tomb. I'm mostly queuing with another good lvl 44 Marauder and a Healer. We just completely dominate the warzone. It's incredible how bad people are. As decent player you do in a Voidstar about 2.5 the damage of the second placed. Also people have to clue about the warzones. Passing? What the ****. Defending a node? LOL! Door? What's that. EDIT: http://imgur.com/xppGH Stuff like that happened a few times. It's just incredible how as medicore player you will complete wreck lowlvl warzones. Edited April 10, 2012 by Teabaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrackenOne Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Just reroll and PvP more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearsighted Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) 304k damage powertech lvl 12 voidstar. Nobody even the 40s did better that round they weren't even close to be honest. I have no problems with low level people as long as they know what they are doing and I see a lot 30-49 that are simply horrible. While I will take your word and assume you definitely have some skill (and that the lvl 12 powertech is not your first character), that 304k damage has more to do with powertechs, unlike virtually every other AC, get all of their most highly damaging attacks (including three great aoe ones, including the best one in the game) by level 10. Voidstar was seemingly made for Death from Above. It's not representative of all, or even most, level 12s. My alt is a mercenary bodyguard, and I've been putting up insane damage and healing numbers. But a lot of that is because nobody knows to mark and kill me. And those that do, often don't have their big killers (like Ops pre-36). And virtually every other class, except mercs and powertechs, who wait until the 30s for their 'core' big attacks (like Overhead Slash, etc). I'll also note that when I went back to pvping at 50 with my alt, I got another rude shock, which made it seem like my gear had degraded. But after 10 matches of 'high quality' pvp, it was back to normal. So playing 1-49 warzones definitely degrades your skill level, at least on a subconcious level. Edited April 10, 2012 by clearsighted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurrDurrCur Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'm a new-ish SWTOR player My handicap is i cannot play unless my partner is playing, so mostly weekends and some weekday afternoons. I started pvping at 10. Totaly clueless. I'm now itching to get to level 40 to jump into my full lvl 40 set, and wondering if i should try to buy the speeder, or keep my 1000 mercenary tokens and keep spending the excess WZ tokens on medkits. Anyway, yes. The # of games that have been won by just me and my partner duo-ing the entire thing is nuts. Its to the point - if i want any chance of winning AND having an enjoyable game... the following must be done: I have to do an inspirational speech I then have to spam CALL INCOMINGS = WIN - YELL AS SOON AS YOU SEE THEM NOT WHEN YOU'RE DEAD FFS - then call 95% of them myself regardless. I have to mark all the enemy healers Anything in the WZ that should have a "keep out of reach of children" sticker on it also needs to be done by me (Ie Huttball grab the ball run to their base) as you wont believe the # of people that will get the ball, or get thrown the ball, then just stand there and not move/keep fighting. Or when you're attacking on voidstar they clear out the entire enemy team then run off without bothering to start capping.... Its torture.... it realy realy is.... I've given up on the speech/trying to coordinate people as there are no macros, the G15 couldent even do it for me... Typing stuff people should know by common sense every single match is like using ultra-coarse-sandpaper to wipe you're butt. Doesnt it **** you off so much at the same time? Just the little things that Bioware deliberately did not do to save time and money... Indivudal Server Forums Like more than 2 pvp brackets. Day/Night/Weather Macros/G15 compatability The space missions. Clone more of them, call it something else buff the mobs in it? LE SIGH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearsighted Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Also. Bolster actually makes for a greater gear imbalance than at 50. Most people while levelling up, will let their slots lag 10+ levels behind. And many don't even have implants (especially sub-25). As a level 39, I once slotted 6 new purple armorings, and got a purple barrel, and the Bolster mechanic pretty much made me a walking god. With a far greater advantage over the other players, than Battlemaster gear has over Centurion (As to not even be remotely close). It was like having 15k+ HP, where most people, even tanks, were in the 11-12k range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robegan Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Wouldn't it stand to reason that low level players (assuming they aren't experienced players who are re-rolling, or starting alts) wouldn't know what they are doing in PVP warzones yet? It's great if your team wins and all, but being lvl 49 and number 1 in damage in a huttball match is nothing to brag about, especially when you accomplished 0 objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearsighted Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Wouldn't it stand to reason that low level players (assuming they aren't experienced players who are re-rolling, or starting alts) wouldn't know what they are doing in PVP warzones yet? It's great if your team wins and all, but being lvl 49 and number 1 in damage in a huttball match is nothing to brag about, especially when you accomplished 0 objectives. Noones bragging about that. It's mostly about how you should look forward to level 50 and welcome it with open arms. The skill level is higher (and will make you a better player), the gear is more (not less) balanced, and you don't have to give a braveheart speech before every game so people know what they're doing. Everybody has the skills to fulfill their chosen roles. If you do well, you can take pride in it, instead of assuming it was because everyone else sucked. Edited April 10, 2012 by clearsighted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xorgith Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 There are far better PVP orientated MMOs out there, SWTOR is really terrible for PVP, you people are just kidding yourselves. SWTOR PVP is as I always say an afterthought, two of the warzones aren't very good, Huttball can be fun but the fun is immediately lost when you queue for the next warzone and it isn't Huttball. This style of game needs faster non gear grinding PVP, I mean there's light-sabers and guns in it and yet has the same slow feel of Rift and WoW. Ranked matches, erm yeah 'hooray', still going to be doing the same warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Sad thing is people take their experience in the 10-49 bracket where they thought they were good, then when they get stomped in the 50 they say OMG GEAR DIFFERENCE as though that's all there is. 6 out of 8 people on the team in the 10-49 are messing with a new character, have low valor and pvp experience with the class, and if it's an alt...probably don't even take the character seriously and are still trying to remember their keybinds or something. Then you've got the guy that just joined a warzone to top off a level when he ran out of quests etc. Bottom line, a lot of people in there don't really take pvp seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 10-49 is more interesting in the sense that a level 10 has a far higher chance of taking out a level 49 compared to a fresh 50 taking out a BM level 50. That said you don't really need that much gear to get to a point where you can put up a good fight against BM character, so if you're always losing in the 50 bracket it's unlikely to suddenly change unless you always PvP in Centurion or lesser gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 People who have made it to War Hero have invested several hundred hours of playtime into the same three warzones, day in and day out, after all. Or they kill-traded on Ilum and hit it in a day or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_preib Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 10-49 is something of a blessing and a curse when you are accustomed to the 50's bracket. One one hand my current alt of choice is level 22 right now and for the last 3-4 levels has really been able to feel like a beast at times in warzones, accomplishing things that my two 50's would never be able to in a similar situation. Even with a mostly incomplete talent tree and lacking a few key skills he has been quite effective. The flip side is that for every less skilled, possibly quite new to pvp player you go up against there is often one on your own team as well. Watching the shadow dance all around the huttball map getting heals/pulls but getting torn apart and just refusing to pass, likewise that player that just stares at you jumping up and down on the other side of the last fire trap, not passing only to watch them get poked into the fire and die. There are quite a few opportunities for frustration. Doing exclusively one or the other would drive me nuts, but I think being able to swap back and forth affords a nice change of flow/pace and can also break up a bad run if a dominant group of the other faction is just running away with things (usually in the 50's bracket). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlamorel Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 My view exactly, well done :]. Maybe they will see after getting the gear for nothing, that skill plays a bigger part than they think. This is exactly why the 1.2 changes don't bother me in the slightest. I am valor rank 80 and have been Pvping in warzones since the game came out. I don't mind that people are suddenly going to be able to get Battlemaster gear (and perhaps War Hero gear) quickly. I'm pretty confident in my knowledge of my own class (as well as others' classes) to be able to respond to people who are attacking me. Once gear has been leveled out, there won't be anything else people can chalk losses up to (or at least, not anything tangible). So I welcome this change. I will bow to those who defeat me, but at the same time I don't think it's suddenly going to displace the PvP in this game. The good players will still shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipdLykJesus Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Its like playing with a school yard full of 12 year olds....literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theangryllama Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 OMG so very true... Levelling a sniper at the moment. Playing huttball matches where the enemy scores with all but myself and 1 other teammate are still hanging in the middle fighting (and being a sniper its the tanks that get past me... stupid all weapon based attacks) I've actually managed to get a 3k defender medal in a huttball match the other day! Something i've never done with a rank 56 pyro PT purely because i was the only one attempting to stop them scoring. Seeing on so many occasions the 'lure entire enemy zerg into pit then pass up' thing work while my team stands there going 'oh... we probably should have been looking up there' Being in an alderaan with 3 of our team standing on the 1 turret we owned all game. They got the 2 defender medals... and did ~15k damage each... but thats all and we lost the game by 300 pts. Having a match where on 4 seperate occasions the republic has capped a turret under the nose of 5 defenders who were off fighting others and couldnt see THE GIANT BLUE *********** BEAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmuerto Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Pvp is a mess indeed, there should have been more brackets, 10-49 with abilities all over the place is pretty ridiculous. Nonetheless I have enjoyed Huttball Wars enough to still be here, PvP in SWTOR is a laugh however and should only be played when not taken seriously. Can't wait until I can Avoidstar with being able to choose your WZ queue, then I'll be happier with the mighty 3 warzones to choose from for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I love 10-49 WZs. I only feel bad for the classes that really don't bloom until much later on as far as key PvP skills go (interrupts, CC, etc). I really dig the concept of putting in mechanics like bolstering in order to consolidate brackets for shorter queue times (10-49) instead of breaking them up more for longer queue times (50unranked, 50soloranked, 50groupranked). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearsighted Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 10-49 is more interesting in the sense that a level 10 has a far higher chance of taking out a level 49 compared to a fresh 50 taking out a BM level 50. This is dramatically untrue. Unless the level 50 is very badly undergeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toju Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Wouldn't it stand to reason that low level players (assuming they aren't experienced players who are re-rolling, or starting alts) wouldn't know what they are doing in PVP warzones yet? It's great if your team wins and all, but being lvl 49 and number 1 in damage in a huttball match is nothing to brag about, especially when you accomplished 0 objectives. My thought exactly. Damage and kills are a nice confidence boost but if you're only going around killing people and not helping your "team" you haven't really done anything. I also have a gripe about people who vote (or in a lot of cases, don't vote at all) the person with the highest dmg or kills with little to no objectives, MVP. While we are the ones who slaughter everything in our path to ACCOMPLISH the objectives and still loose because everybody thinks its a bloody free for all match and kills are actually worth something =P Edited April 10, 2012 by Toju Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoraji Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 My thought exactly. Damage and kills are a nice confidence boost but if you're only going around killing people and not helping your "team" you haven't really done anything. I also have a gripe about people who vote (or in a lot of cases, dont vote at all) the person with the highest dmg or kills with little to no objectives, MVP. While we are the ones who slaughter everything in our path to ACCOMPLISH the objectives and still loose because everybody thinks its a bloody free for all match and kills are actually worth something =P Well, huttball you dont get any objective points for scoring. So sometimes it is hard to remember who did all the ball-carrying. Voidstar gives you no points for planting either. Too hard to tell who did what by the scoreboard. Might as well vote for the guy who did the most dmg or healed the most people. At least you know they did SOMETHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toju Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Well, huttball you dont get any objective points for scoring. So sometimes it is hard to remember who did all the ball-carrying. Voidstar gives you no points for planting either. Too hard to tell who did what by the scoreboard. Might as well vote for the guy who did the most dmg or healed the most people. At least you know they did SOMETHING. But you do get points in huttball for killing the person with the ball. You also get points in void star for killing bomb planters. It is still dumb that you don't get points for planting or opening the force fields or scoring in huttball. Either way the point is you can still get objective points in any of the warzones BY HELPING YOUR OWN TEAM and not going on a killing spree so you can get uber kill dmg =P Edited April 10, 2012 by Toju Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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