Who Swtor was made for.

[DarthDetonate]

Make sure you let him know that The Secret World is going to have a cash shop (confirmed) which may be a disqualifer.

 

Many players don't like being charged a subscription monthly price AND having a cash shop in game as well, which The Secret World is going to do.

 

Not to sound to defensive, but the cash shop effects novelty items such as clothing and has been stated time and time again will not give one player an edge over another.

[Gungan]

Make sure you let him know that The Secret World is going to have a cash shop (confirmed) which may be a disqualifer.

 

Many players don't like being charged a subscription monthly price AND having a cash shop in game as well, which The Secret World is going to do.

 

Contemporary settings ftl:(

[Gungan]

Not to sound to defensive, but the cash shop effects novelty items such as clothing and has been stated time and time again will not give one player an edge over another.

 

It's pretty much like the WoW cash shop, with unique mounts and vanity pets.

[GalacticKegger]

All this tells me is that you think of yourself as casual, and therefore the way you play must be what defines someone as casual. Also that you aren't particularly threatened by people who play less than you, and you feel obligated to take potshots at those who play more than you.

 

The reason most of these definitions fail is because they attempt to look at casual and hardcore as existing on a single spectrum. That isn't accurate at all.

LOL ... it isn't fail or win - merely one's personal perspective. Condescendence will get you nowhere.

[Shrikestalker]

Not to sound to defensive, but the cash shop effects novelty items such as clothing and has been stated time and time again will not give one player an edge over another.

 

And you've seen the cash shop to confirm this, right? I don't think you're defensive, a bit trusting of Funcom that's all.

 

Btw, I plan on playing TSW so I'm not downing the game.. just being realistic that if I see something in that shop that 'aid's players, it wouldn't suprise me.

 

But the point still stands, an awful lot of gamers won't even try TSW because they will be charging a sub monthly as well as having a full-on cash shop. Some players think for $15/month EVERYTHING should be included inside the game, including all the styles of clothing that undoubtedly will be sold for the human only choices players have as toons.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Shrikestalker

[DarthDetonate]

And you've seen the cash shop to confirm this, right? I don't think you're defensive, a bit trusting of Funcom that's all.

 

Btw, I plan on playing TSW so I'm not downing the game.. just being realistic that if I see something in that shop that 'aid's players, it wouldn't suprise me.

 

But the point still stands, an awful lot of gamers won't even try TSW because they will be charging a sub monthly as well as having a full-on cash shop. Some players think for $15/month EVERYTHING should be included inside the game, including all the styles of clothing that undoubtedly will be sold for the human only choices players have as toons.

 

I have not played in the closed beta so i havent interacted with the "cash shop" My information is coming from about 12 different interviews with the Lead Designer from 2009 till now. Not that things cant/wont change as the game matures, it is currently not their intention to have a pay to win game.

Edited April 10, 2012 by DarthDetonate

[Jett-Rinn]

I don't see why you would find any heroic 2's challenging. I did all mine with very little effort. In fact they felt roughly the difficulty of normal quests in previous MMOs (which involve actual use of class mechanics and strategy instead of blasting mindlessly through like every normal quest in this game).

 

Heroic 4's certainly can't be soloed by all classes, and only stealthers can do it, because they're hax.

 

I don't consider myself hardcore either, and you don't have to be be a competent player.

 

I disagree and I have seen people say the same thing in other games and it always ends up the same...the devs jump and crank up the difficulty and the players who said it was too easy are nowhere to be found when the fallout hits.

 

I just hope BioWare has learned from other developers mistakes in this matter.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Gungan]

I disagree and I have seen people say the same thing in other games and it always ends up the same...the devs jump and crank up the difficulty and the players who said it was too easy are nowhere to be found when the fallout hits.

 

I just hope BioWare has learned from other developers mistakes in this matter.

 

They have. The 1.2 operation (and flashpoint) will be harder than current ones.

 

Coincidentally, many of the heroic 4s can be two manned with companions...

Edited April 10, 2012 by Gungan

[Vindigore]

I don't see why you would find any heroic 2's challenging. I did all mine with very little effort. In fact they felt roughly the difficulty of normal quests in previous MMOs (which involve actual use of class mechanics and strategy instead of blasting mindlessly through like every normal quest in this game).

 

Heroic 4's certainly can't be soloed by all classes, and only stealthers can do it, because they're hax.

 

I don't consider myself hardcore either, and you don't have to be be a competent player.

 

Any class that cant cc reliably (for 1 min) has problems with most of heroic 2 - wont even dare to propose heroic 4. Try doing with a Marauder: Prison Labor at Tattoine, or Republic's Last Grasp at Balmorra, Recruitment/Botched Interrogation @ Nar Shadaa and a lot a lot more examples...

 

Yes, classes like sorc/op/merc that can heal & cc , can solo more heroics, but this isnt the case. The whole thing started when I counter-argued Jjix's post at the start of page 20 that SWTOR is a Single Player Online Game. When I ll be able to solo heroics/FP's/Raids at my level with all classes, then it will be one, until then, accusing it of being a SPOG is silly the least.

[Jett-Rinn]

They have. The 1.2 operation (and flashpoint) will be harder than current ones.

 

Coincidentally, many of the heroic 4s can be two manned with companions...

 

Well if it's too frustrating for the majority of players Bioware can expect forum fallout and lost subs.

 

 

If you could provide videos of all classes two manning heroics with companions that would give you a bit of credibility.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[Gungan]

Any class that cant cc reliably (for 1 min) has problems with most of heroic 2 - wont even dare to propose heroic 4. Try doing with a Marauder: Prison Labor at Tattoine, or Republic's Last Grasp at Balmorra, Recruitment/Botched Interrogation @ Nar Shadaa and a lot a lot more examples...

 

Yes, classes like sorc/op/merc that can heal & cc , can solo more heroics, but this isnt the case. The whole thing started when I counter-argued Jjix's post at the start of page 20 that SWTOR is a Single Player Online Game. When I ll be able to solo heroics/FP's/Raids at my level with all classes, then it will be one, until then, accusing it of being a SPOG is silly the least.

 

I did every heroic 2 with a Vanguard. Not a single CC over 8 seconds, no trouble at all. Working on a DPS Juggernaut right now, done every heroic 2 so far. Skipping the 4s cuz it's impossible to find a group.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Gungan

[Shrikestalker]

I have not played in the closed beta so i havent interacted with the "cash shop" My information is coming from about 12 different interviews with the Lead Designer from 2009 till now. Not that things cant/wont change as the game matures, it is currently not their intention to have a pay to win game.

 

Something something about best intentions and being something fraught with disappointment something something.

 

Again, doesn't matter if it is pay to win or not, when people hear:

 

 

 

Funcom: "Pay $15/month" for The Secret World and you can play. We will also add a full cash shop that sells 'no advantage items' for your 'convienience'.

 

Player: Define 'advantage'. What exactly are you selling in there? Exp potions? Health pots? What?

 

Funcom: "We can't show you it all right now. Just sub at at launch and you can get a look at the entire inventory and see it's not pay to win."

 

Player: "Wait, you want me to buy your box, pay $15/month AND you're going to have a shop? Do I get free credits to buy things for that sub price in the shop like a stipend?"

 

Funcom: "No."

 

Player: "So I have to trust your word that they aren't 'advantage' by your definition?"

 

Funcom: "Would we lie to you?"

Edited April 10, 2012 by Shrikestalker

[DarthDetonate]

Something something about best intentions and being something fraught with disappointment something something.

 

Again, doesn't matter if it is pay to win or not, when people hear:

 

 

 

Funcom: "Pay $15/month" for The Secret World and you can play. We will also add a full cash shop that sells 'no advantage items' for your 'convienience'.

 

Player: Define 'advantage'. What exactly are you selling in there? Exp potions? Health pots? What?

 

Funcom: "We can't show you it all right now. Just sub at at launch and you can get a look at the entire inventory and see it's not pay to win."

 

Player: "Wait, you want me to buy your box, pay $15/month AND you're going to have a shop? Do I get free credits to buy things for that sub price in the shop like a stipend?"

 

Funcom: "No."

 

Player: "So I have to trust your word that they aren't 'advantage' by your definition?"

 

Funcom: "Would we lie to you?"

 

After following it's evolution, after halting production to shore up engine issues I find it hard to believe they would truly try to double dip. and as far as what you pulled from my quote, that was me trying to be PC. They on the other hand have said with no margin of error several times that the items sold will not give players an advantage over others who have not purchaced anything from the "Cash shop". Unless of course having a leather jacket and Zebra Print pants creates such shear awesome, it knocks down enemies.

[Gungan]

Something something about best intentions and being something fraught with disappointment something something.

 

Again, doesn't matter if it is pay to win or not, when people hear:

 

 

 

Funcom: "Pay $15/month" for The Secret World and you can play. We will also add a full cash shop that sells 'no advantage items' for your 'convienience'.

 

Player: Define 'advantage'. What exactly are you selling in there? Exp potions? Health pots? What?

 

Funcom: "We can't show you it all right now. Just sub at at launch and you can get a look at the entire inventory and see it's not pay to win."

 

Player: "Wait, you want me to buy your box, pay $15/month AND you're going to have a shop? Do I get free credits to buy things for that sub price in the shop like a stipend?"

 

Funcom: "No."

 

Player: "So I have to trust your word that they aren't 'advantage' by your definition?"

 

Funcom: "Would we lie to you?"

 

Gear in TSW doesn't have stats. They can sell all the gear on the Cash Shop and it still won't give anyone an advantage. All gear does in TSW is customize the look of your char with unique items.

[Jjix]

No, WoW (that you keep talking about) in nothing like SPOG. When at max level, you cant do anything but group in order to advance your chars. All the story (the little one that there is), progresses in the raids. A game that Forces you to group, cant be a single player game.

 

 

I never said WoW was a SPOG (single player online game), that would completely contradict what I was saying which is that SPOGs don't do well. Obviously WoW has done extremely well. What I WAS saying is that developers around the mmo world noticed the research which showed that WoW players spent the majority of their time soloing and thus concluding that it was soloing-together that was the secret to its success. Since then they have been creating one failed SPOG after another. If one has only been playing WoW this whole time this phenomena would have appeared under the radar, but I'm suggesting there is a long line of failed games that were essentially precursors to the SWTOR philosophy -- from Tabula Rasa to Champions Online, from Age of Conan to Auto Assault the list is long -- games which involved more or less forced soloing -- and though the SWTOR developers didn't cite these other games, they did make clear that they believe in the SPOG ideal and since they, Bioware, were experts in the single player rpg, they felt they could make this transition to online games and begin a revolution.

 

But the whole single player game thing just doesn't work for MMOs. And making life more miserable at the end game isn't going to change that.

[Shrikestalker]

Gear in TSW doesn't have stats. They can sell all the gear on the Cash Shop and it still won't give anyone an advantage. All gear does in TSW is customize the look of your char with unique items.

 

So you don't think things like EXP potions or super HP/pots or something is advantage or just convienence? And do you even know if they are selling them? No. Neither do I but I'm not just taking their word for it as gospel, lol. That's the point.. wait and see instead of "Funcom promises me.."

 

Because I know companies that classify those as 'non-advantage' items while the players think it's advantage. I'm not talking about selling skills, lol.

 

Again, I'm going to be playing TSW. Let me make that clear. I'm just telling you and the other poster that despite whatever Funcom says, there is a huge amount of people automatically discounting the game simply because of three words: "cash" "shop" and "subscription".

 

 

The question is will there be enough who think that won't be a big deal (like me) and still sub?

 

That depends on what is revealed as being sold in the actual cash shop (not in press releases or 'blogs', etc) and how those potential players view those items being sold.

 

I think we've sufficiently gone off-topic now so let this puppy die.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Shrikestalker

[tekkamansoul]

Bahahahaha

 

"Hardcore" gamers. "Elite" gamers.

 

Sorry dudes, the amount of time you spend raiding and maxing out valor has nothing to do with being hardcore or elite. It means you spend a lot of time in one game.

 

If SWTOR has elicited your subscription, a so-called hardcore, elitist gamer for 3-4 months, then it has succeeded. If you leave, you'll be back. Even if you aren't, the vast majority that don't have complexes will still be here.

[Gungan]

So you don't think things like EXP potions or super HP/pots or something is advantage or just convienence? And do you even know if they are selling them? No. Neither do I but I'm not just taking their word for it as gospel, lol. That's the point.. wait and see instead of "Funcom promises me.."

 

Because I know companies that classify those as 'non-advantage' items while the players think it's advantage. I'm not talking about selling skills, lol.

 

Again, I'm going to be playing TSW. Let me make that clear. I'm just telling you and the other poster that despite whatever Funcom says, there is a huge amount of people automatically discounting the game simply because of three words: "cash" "shop" and "subscription".

 

 

The question is will there be enough who think that won't be a big deal (like me) and still sub?

 

That depends on what is revealed as being sold in the actual cash shop (not in press releases or 'blogs', etc) and how those potential players view those items being sold.

 

I think we've sufficiently gone off-topic now so let this puppy die.

 

EXP potions don't give an advantage at cap. As long as the HP pots are the same as the ones available in game, it's not a problem. Some people pay with real money, others with game money.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Gungan

[Ghaiana]

No gamer is equal to another gamer, you'll have a lot in common with some gamers and you'll have almost no similarities with other gamers. That's why it is almost impossible to define the true hardcore player and the true casual player. I don't think the hours played or the goals a gamer has will define whether someone is hardcore or casual. It's probably more the way you look at yourself as a gamer.

[greenleef]

The problem is not thats this game is not made for hardcore gamers its that its not even made for casuals its made for a new bread called super casuals.

 

I olny play a hr or 2 max a day somdays dont even log in our guild does nm 1 night a week where i play for more than 2 hrs. nm is a joke onl 1 fight deserves the title. and the fact that every boss drops 10 plus items kills the replay factor not realy there every week people just stop and they say why do it its to easy and noone needs anything.

 

The rest of the week is either leveling alts or pvp and while waiting in pvp que for 10- 20 min there is zero to do if you played the game for more than a month all tooos maxed crafting. they killed world pvp so you spend more time waiting than anything.

 

Most givin answers are go do dailys. did that need nothing from them.

Reroll to a more active server. lol this is just saying game is going downhill because this should never be a answer so soon after launch.

[MMornard]

1) MMOs that don't have "hardcore" players are MMOs that are dying.

 

Cite your facts.

[Zavia]

This is not a game aimed at the hardcore. Many HC gamers (like myself) are guilty of trying to make this game what it simply isn't.

 

As the Bioware Rep on the Pax East Panel said, to Paraphrase "your focused demographic is usually dictated by how much the game cost to make. In the future when these game can be made faster and for less money, I'm sure we'll see a lot of games aimed a niche audiences like the hardcore but for now, you don't spend 300 million on a game for 70k-100k subscriptions."

 

When I quit WoW years ago, I said i would wait for Swtor, as it seemed to have what i wanted from a game and after 7 years, it wasn't set in Azeroth.

 

 

What i hadn't (but should have) anticipated was the targeted audience and how wide the net Swtor was casting.

 

After hitting 50, raiding and rolling numerous alts to 50 It started to sink in that the overall difficulty level of this game is not what i expected. Then again, what I expected was based on what I had hoped for rather than what was most logical for the company and the subsequent game.

 

 

Basically we the minority, the hardcore few will never change the aims of this game and would be silly to even try to. Accept What the game is, then evaluate if it is for you. Anything more is just trying to change something that was obviously not meant for your play style.

 

 

Very nice post. I feel the same way, but my focus is role-playing. There are RP elements in SWTOR just as there are HC elements but I do not feel the game is built for either, nor will it ever be. Even the RP servers are not built for RP, but at least we do have a server with a label, which is more than the HC crowd has.

 

Perhaps when the game settles in for the long haul Bioware will go back and look at creating a truer RP server and maybe introduce an HC server type for those who enjoy it. If an idea has the potential to boost profits I have no doubt it will be looked at.

[greenleef]

Cite your facts.

 

links to facts are not needed

1 swg no hardcore raid just alot of other stuff everyone agrees was dying

2 wow cata expantion took away the hardcore factor of raiding and subs took a huge hit

At least there head developer publicly said that cata was a mistake and every wow person that left is waiting to see what pandora is going to like for hardcore pvers

3 swtor no hardcore anything and server population is droping fast cuz no replay factor for ops due to being so easy even on nm. THIS i can say is the main reason my full server is now light and standard at peak. been in 4 big guild that all quit for this reason so did all my friends from other mmos. Even as a causual player this game is way to easy. Its show up and have the world handed to you, this wont keep the subs rolling for the long run.

Edited April 10, 2012 by greenleef

[IMWylde]

Hardcore?

 

Absolutely the worst label to use when trying to put a point across. everyone thinks their hardcore, I like to PvP I would say I am a hard core Pvp'r as it dominates my game time (or would if it had a little more variety).

 

SWTOR is a raid centric game. The endgame content reflects it. Unfortunately it has some of the worst grouping mechanics I have ever seen. I trust they will fix that, hopefully before they've whittled their server list to 10.

 

That being said I will not be a long time subscriber because doing the same 4 dungeons over and over and over simply does not do it for me. Dailies, Weeklies, Hardmodes? Hardmodes seem to me to be the very laziest form of level content.

 

Everyone looks the same, everyone has the same build. You can tell what your dealing with by looking at their weapon. the eight base stories are OK for gaming but once their done its just pure dee white milk. PvP is fun until you spend an entire evening playing huttball. Illum might have been a good idea but it was so badly designed.

 

SWTOR like so many titles that have come before was made for people with fifty bucks. That's who they made it for, its a wide demographic and contains everyone whose ever heard of a lightsaber.

[GalacticKegger]

links to facts are not needed

1 swg no hardcore raid just alot of other stuff everyone agrees was dying

2 wow cata expantion took away the hardcore factor of raiding and subs took a huge hit

At least there head developer publicly said that cata was a mistake and every wow person that left is waiting to see what pandora is going to like for hardcore pvers

3 swtor no hardcore anything and server population is droping fast cuz no replay factor for ops due to being so easy even on nm. THIS i can say is the main reason my full server is now light and standard at peak. been in 4 big guild that all quit for this reason so did all my friends from other mmos. Even as a causual player this game is way to easy. Its show up and have the world handed to you, this wont keep the subs rolling for the long run.

But those aren't facts, those are observations.