3 Days as an Advanced Prototype on live: An in-depth Pyro BH’s look

[TheOpf]

Trying to use flamethrower whenever you have 5 stacks is not the way to play. You have to make sure you can stun + use HO so that you can't be knocked around. With it getting a snare in 1.2 the stun won't be needed but you should still use it with HO up.

 

A bit confusing, but I get what you are saying. I think there is a misunderstanding. I meant there is no reason to use FT unless you have PFT. You are 100 percent correct about HO being used offensively, and I wish I would have thought of it. Optimally you would get 5 stack PFT and then POP HO and PFT on pve. On pvp you would pop HO, Electrocute and then unleash PFT.

 

Flamethrower/pulse cannon is very good damage but situational. You will hurt yourself if using that is what you are focusing your playstyle around.

 

The problem is the entire tree is dedicated to that exact playstyle. You spam FB until RP is ready than you spam FB until PFT is ready. Mixing in Immolate and RS when necessary. If you don't play to use PFT than you re just FB spamming which really makes the spec beyond boring.

 

 

The initial burst of the spec is quite good when you blow adrenal and relic to Immolate, RP, FB until RP or immolate is back up. Retractable blades really is only useful if you're fighting a stealther and want a DoT up or you need the DoT to use a crit RS.

 

Flameburst/ion pulse hits incredibly hard in this spec. With adrenals going you can easily crit for 2.7-3k with 2.2-2.5k crits the norm without. Gut/RB is a waste of a GCD/ammo to use it instead when you want to go for a quick kill unless you have a crit RS/HiB proc from RP/SS. Once it has a snare it will be much more useful but with your increased movement speed the snare still won't be needed much of the time. It really needs an increase in damage.

 

The only error with this is the initial damage. The initial burst of Imm/RP/FB is really really weak compared to Marauder, Juggs, Pyro PT, Mercs, Operatives, non-lethality snipers, and pretty much any other dps tree. The spec is based on building up to an amazing amount of damage in PFT. Immolate and RP hit hard, but the other trees have similar attacks that hit harder. Pyro has TD/im/rs/rp which hits like a truck immediately.

 

The rest I completely agree with. After multiple WZ's, and now a dungeon. I find I do more damage if I ignore RS and RB and use them situationally which is completely hilarious. However weaving them into a pve rotation of IM/RP/FB x3/RP/FBx2/PFT is really clunky. The rotation becomes smoother if we ignore them. So why have talents that boost them?

 

 

Killing healers shouldn't be much of an issue since you have a 6s CD interrupt. Knowing what to interrupt is the key which will be easier once there is a customisable UI and you can have the cast bar with the name of the spell more central. 6s CD with a 4 sec lockout means that unless the caster is standing still and mashing a 1.5s cast (lol flamethrower/pulse cannon) you should be able to keep it permanently interrupted. The best use for FT/PC is to take out guarded healers by nailing the healer and the tank in the burst. It will hit the tank for 1.5X damage meaning they can easily take 3k+ per tick often allowing you to do a quick target switch to burst the tank down before the healer can react. When interrupting and DPSing a healer you can easily run out of ammo (the 1 ammo for interrupt every 6s counteracts the HE bonus ammo), looking forward to having our interrupt be no cost.

 

I still find that Quell is really strong if used right, and I agree 100 percent on this except if you make a mistake and use quell at the wrong time you have almost no prayer of downing them currently. In pyro, you can screw up and still have the burst to drop them. There is no other tree that were it becomes so necessary to be almost perfect in order to come close to killing a healer.

 

 

Another key to using the spec is popping HO/HtL BEFORE you get into combat with anything with a KB. You can often make an entire group waste their KBs on you while you are immune. It makes killing snipers and mercenaries extremely easy. It also causes a ton of confusion as they see you're not at full resolve and often they'll blow their stuns and other CC on you (generally wasting it because you take less damage) giving you full resolve by the time your HO/HtL runs out.

 

This is a good point, and I will try it on day 3. If I do that it should be coming off CD by the time PFT is ready to roll.

 

The spec is NOT better than pyro/assault right now but should be at least as good after 1.2 and possibly better simply due to better heat management. I have to say the the 8/31/2 spec is better than the 6/33/2 spec. The increased aim is very important for having that super hard hitting FB/IP. If you focus only on using FT/PC you are hurting yourself.

 

Also something I want other people to try: I think using mortar barrage/death from above with 5 stacks does more damage. Maybe I'm crazy and I haven't done an absolute test yet but I have had MB critting for 2.5-3k (on multiple targets) without adrenals or anything going. Normally it crits for 2k or so. Going to do a proper test today as it may just have been from the marauder party buff or something else I didn't notice at the time.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing it's better than Pyro, well not with any logic. I also think in it's current state it's worse utility wise. I am just trying to understand it's playstyle. I mean a completely melee tree with no slows, extended stuns, or major burst outside of PFT requires some serious effort.

 

However I completely disagree with you, it is about building up to hammer them with PFT. The playstyle is about maximizing contact time and setting up the opponent for the PFT burst. Otherwise what exactly is the playstyle. What is the point of AP if it's not about PFT? Immolate/RP/FB don't hit hard enough to scare anyone. Is the point to mindnumbingly wittle them down and then occasionaly use PFT when it's perfect?

 

I am sorry, but I just can't believe that BW setup a tree to be that bad. It's all about PFT for this tree. Immolate/FB/RP are nice, but the main burst is PFT. It's just badly designed on live to play that way. In 1.2 with the no interrupt 70 percent slow PFT it will be much much better.

 

I see what you mean about 8/31/2, but losing the imp electrocute seems like a loss. Maybe taking the two points out of Puncture and going something like this

 

8/33/2 while simply moving the points back to imp RS for pve purposes. Does that make sense?

[TheOpf]

DAY 2 IS UP!

 

After last night, I may go to 4 days just to get a better feel. To me day 2 feels like a lost day. I was so off my game that I even lost to an operative 1v1 at one point. No semi-decent PT should ever lose to an operative or assassin. I got beaten by both last night. Granted it was completely on me. I crushed them later, but it was not a pretty night.

 

I had a Sage and Commando get me so rattled I almost never recovered.

[TheOpf]

you make good points... i think too many people switch from pyro to AP and stil try to play like they are pyro. They playstyle is completely different.

 

As one of the people who attacked you over AP, and I will still disagree with you on it's utility. I first need to apologize for the anger that I directed towards you. I still think you are too argumentative at times, but I understand your frustration. The tree is frustratingly broken in some areas, and that bothers me greatly the more I play AP.

 

The tree is significantly less forgiving than Pyro to mistakes or poor play in terms of damage lost. It is significantly easier in terms of heat management.

 

You are 100 percent correct in that it requires a completely different mindset and the play style of AP is so different than Pyro that I have been at it 2 days, and still kick myself half the time. It's more unique in terms of the style of play than any other tree. Almost all melee trees play the same, you close the gap, set up your attacks and then burst. AP tends to play like a ranged sitting in melee waiting for procs while setting up a stationary burst. It requires you to constantly be 4m away to optimize your damage output, but your burst is a channelled attack which is completely different than any other melee that I am aware of.

 

The change in style of play is even more abrupt than the change from Madness or Darkness sin to Deception sin. Peronally, I find it a challenge

[Karandor]

However I completely disagree with you, it is about building up to hammer them with PFT. The playstyle is about maximizing contact time and setting up the opponent for the PFT burst. Otherwise what exactly is the playstyle. What is the point of AP if it's not about PFT? Immolate/RP/FB don't hit hard enough to scare anyone. Is the point to mindnumbingly wittle them down and then occasionaly use PFT when it's perfect?

I am sorry, but I just can't believe that BW setup a tree to be that bad. It's all about PFT for this tree. Immolate/FB/RP are nice, but the main burst is PFT. It's just badly designed on live to play that way. In 1.2 with the no interrupt 70 percent slow PFT it will be much much better.

 

I see what you mean about 8/31/2, but losing the imp electrocute seems like a loss. Maybe taking the two points out of Puncture and going something like this

 

8/33/2 while simply moving the points back to imp RS for pve purposes. Does that make sense?

 

See the bold italics underlined part. Yes that is basically it. Though I find the damage is far better than just "whittling" them down. When you save it for the perfect moment it wins fights brutally and totally. When you use it as much as you can, 1/2 the time or more it's pretty much a waste of 3 ammo. 1.2 will completely change this mentality but for now it holds true.

 

I don't think pyrotechs realize just how far ahead of every other class they are on burst damage, especially on heavy armor classes. Compared to pyro it is much slower damage but no other class in the game comes close to the damage pyro does. AP's damage holds up to any class in the game except pyrotech. I top the meters with AP pretty much constantly.

 

I think I may go with the changes to spec that you suggest. RS bonuses really aren't needed since I use it even less than an IF spec does.

 

Going to try that tonight.

[anwg]

DAY 2 IS UP!

 

After last night, I may go to 4 days just to get a better feel. To me day 2 feels like a lost day. I was so off my game that I even lost to an operative 1v1 at one point. No semi-decent PT should ever lose to an operative or assassin. I got beaten by both last night. Granted it was completely on me. I crushed them later, but it was not a pretty night.

 

I had a Sage and Commando get me so rattled I almost never recovered.

 

Ehh? I find operatives and scoundrels very difficult, because after their alpha strike, I'm down 8-9k already, and they can dispel our dots. In my experience it's the other way around, no operative should lose to a PT

Edited April 6, 2012 by anwg

[Agooz]

Ehh? I find operatives and scoundrels very difficult, because after their alpha strike, I'm down 8-9k already, and they can dispel our dots. In my experience it's the other way around, no operative should lose to a PT

 

Skill aside, pyros smoke OPs 9 out of 10 times. OPs are one of those ACs that got nerfed in a really bad way. I actually do miss how they used to come out of stealth and annihilate us. It was one of the few classes that kept us Pyros on our toes, always stealth scanning, AOEing, etc.. Now I dont even have stealth scan hotkeyed anymore lol.

[exphryl]

Unlike most pvp lovers, I do not hang out in Imperial fleet waiting for the next queue and talking about how great I am.

 

While I can see your attempt at humor, comes off a little ******ish as some of us "PvP Lovers" didn't skimp on the story lines when we were leveling to begin with

[TheOpf]

Ehh? I find operatives and scoundrels very difficult, because after their alpha strike, I'm down 8-9k already, and they can dispel our dots. In my experience it's the other way around, no operative should lose to a PT

 

Nah, they might hit hard for a second, but shield, kolto overload stun them and then light them up, and they are dead in a few seconds. I actually had one take out half my health before I got him, and I still killed him.

 

Remember they can't get away because we have dots and so they only have the initial damage. Your shield does more to stop than then it does against just about anyone else from my impression. Operatives are very easy, now snipers/slingers on the other hand with their CD's will rip through me like hot butter over toast.

[TheOpf]

While I can see your attempt at humor, comes off a little ******ish as some of us "PvP Lovers" didn't skimp on the story lines when we were leveling to begin with

 

Haha, good point. I do come off a bit snobbish, and I apologize. I skipped whole planets while leveling. I just got Blizz recently, and can't believe how absolutely amazing the BH story line has become. Absolutely amazing story. Easily tops anything on the Republic side.

[anwg]

Nah, they might hit hard for a second, but shield, kolto overload stun them and then light them up, and they are dead in a few seconds. I actually had one take out half my health before I got him, and I still killed him.

 

Remember they can't get away because we have dots and so they only have the initial damage. Your shield does more to stop than then it does against just about anyone else from my impression. Operatives are very easy, now snipers/slingers on the other hand with their CD's will rip through me like hot butter over toast.

 

They have evasion which clears all dots, and give them 100 ranged defense for 4 seconds (ie, no rail shots).

 

On my op I can't remember losing to any vanguard/PT.

[TheOpf]

They have evasion which clears all dots, and give them 100 ranged defense for 4 seconds (ie, no rail shots).

 

On my op I can't remember losing to any vanguard/PT.

 

They have evasion we have stealth scan. The concept is the same. We have counters to all of their counters.

 

Either you are facing horrible PT's or most of the PT's I have talked with and ran into have face nothing but awful Op/scoundrels.

 

In my entire experience, I have only run into a handful of scoundrels who beat me. I have ran into a lot who have tried though. The Ops guy I currently run with typically does not take on Vanguards unless I am on them. He typically handles the sages/mercs/snipers while I handle the knights, sentinels, shadows, and vanguards.

 

I have a world of trouble with slingers, intelligent sages, and one spec of sentinels that tends to chew me up. I can't remember which one right now.

[anwg]

They have evasion we have stealth scan. The concept is the same. We have counters to all of their counters.

 

How exactly does stealth scan counter evasion again? Evasion doesn't require stealth.

 

 

Either you are facing horrible PT's or most of the PT's I have talked with and ran into have face nothing but awful Op/scoundrels.

 

In my entire experience, I have only run into a handful of scoundrels who beat me. I have ran into a lot who have tried though. The Ops guy I currently run with typically does not take on Vanguards unless I am on them. He typically handles the sages/mercs/snipers while I handle the knights, sentinels, shadows, and vanguards.

 

I have a world of trouble with slingers, intelligent sages, and one spec of sentinels that tends to chew me up. I can't remember which one right now.

 

I can't argue with your experience, but yeah, vanguard/PT are pretty easy for me.

[Assaultrooper]

Ok seriously tho when was it that a thread meant to show case the current AP spec, became the "I own Pt's in my scoundrel." "Oh no I own scoundrels in My Pt" thread...

[TheOpf]

Ok seriously tho when was it that a thread meant to show case the current AP spec, became the "I own Pt's in my scoundrel." "Oh no I own scoundrels in My Pt" thread...

 

A question was asked after I stated I got absolutely destroyed by a Scoundrel, about how I beat them regularly. I gave the answer, and then we had a small discussion about it.

 

Back on track: AP has a harder time with burst classes due to the fact that it can't just reply quickly with a short burst. It has a steady buildup to PFT major burst. Immolate/RP/FB just doesn't burst the same as Pyro PT/Marauder/Decep Sin burst. The closest to it is Annihilation with it's build to burst. However Anni's dot's hit harder. Burst classes will always pose an issue to AP in it's current condition especially highly mobile ones.

[TheOpf]

I am actually looking forward to 1.2 changes. Those who currently play AP regularly correct me if I am wrong on this.

 

Live Rotation (without Rail shot) The proc rate is so low that it's not even worth bothering to use it unless you want to screw up your rotation. A Crit based RS hits for less than Immolate, rocket punch, or Flame burst crit. Since th e proc rate is so low is there any reason to use it except in pvp situations where you have a runner?

 

So your inherent priority rotation would change to:

 

Prototype Flame Thrower (5stacks)/Pulse Generator

Rocket Punch (free RP)/Stockstrike

Immolate/Fire Pulse

Rocket Punch (non-free)/Stockstrike

Retractable Blade/Gut

Flame Burst/Ion Pulse

 

We essentially take Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt out of the rotation due to it's heat/bullets cost and it's lack of damage compared to the alternative. Granted this is without any sort of testing except in terms of fluidity of rotation.

Your PVE rotation would essentially look like this:

Missle as you approach, Immolate, RP, RB, FBx4, RP (if Proc), FB, PFT Rinse and repeat

 

In 1.2 with RB proccing the RS crit, it might be worth weaving RS back into the rotation because your proc would be more often.

 

Priority for 1.2

PFT (5 stacks)

RP (free)

Imm

RB

RS (Charged Gauntlets)

FB

RP (cost)

 

Your PVE rotation would essentially look like this:

Missle as approach, Imm, RP, RB, RS (if procced) FBx4, PFT (rinse and repeat)

 

The reason for dumping the costed 25 to the bottom is because we need room for RS. The only thing is that you never want to use RP if you have RS on Proc because RP has a chance to proc the crit.

 

PFT x 5 = more important than using your free RB or procced crit unless the proc would wear off before the end of the PFT. At this point, you would use them. Though I think PFT followed by RB/RS would be some serious damage.

Edited April 6, 2012 by TheOpf

[Hizoka]

As one of the people who attacked you over AP, and I will still disagree with you on it's utility. I first need to apologize for the anger that I directed towards you. I still think you are too argumentative at times, but I understand your frustration. The tree is frustratingly broken in some areas, and that bothers me greatly the more I play AP.

 

The tree is significantly less forgiving than Pyro to mistakes or poor play in terms of damage lost. It is significantly easier in terms of heat management.

 

You are 100 percent correct in that it requires a completely different mindset and the play style of AP is so different than Pyro that I have been at it 2 days, and still kick myself half the time. It's more unique in terms of the style of play than any other tree. Almost all melee trees play the same, you close the gap, set up your attacks and then burst. AP tends to play like a ranged sitting in melee waiting for procs while setting up a stationary burst. It requires you to constantly be 4m away to optimize your damage output, but your burst is a channelled attack which is completely different than any other melee that I am aware of.

 

The change in style of play is even more abrupt than the change from Madness or Darkness sin to Deception sin. Peronally, I find it a challenge

i have played pyro and i do see why people like it, it is very easy to play. AP is one of the most unique things i have played in an MMO in a long time, the heat is no so much an issue as your positioning. I do not agree that RB is useless, i will agree that RS is pointless to use without the crit proc, however that is getting fixed in 1.2. I think what makes people not like RB is the fact that is not not all upfront damage.

 

ON my columi geared trooper my gut does 775-804 for the initial hit and 1162 for the dot, Fire Pulse is 1450-1550. They are actually pretty close in the damage they do when both ar non crits. RB is not bad damage for the heat spent, its just not as good as some of the other skills, but it becomes better in 1.2 when every tick has the chance to proc charged gauntless.

Its not great damage on its own however the damage it leads to makes it worth while (more so in a PvE setting). In PvP ia gree its mostly meh, unless fighting a stealther.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Hizoka

[TheOpf]

i have played pyro and i do see why people like it, it is very easy to play. AP is one of the most unique things i have played in an MMO in a long time, the heat is no so much an issue as your positioning. I do not agree that RB is useless, i will agree that RS is pointless to use without the crit proc, however that is getting fixed in 1.2. I think what makes people not like RB is the fact that is not not all upfront damage.

 

ON my columi geared trooper my gut does 775-804 for the initial hit and 1162 for the dot, Fire Pulse is 1450-1550. They are actually pretty close in the damage they do when both ar non crits. RB is not bad damage for the heat spent, its just not as good as some of the other skills, but it becomes better in 1.2 when every tick has the chance to proc charged gauntless.

Its not great damage on its won however the damage it leads to makes it worth while (more os in a PvE setting). In PvP ia gree its mostly meh, unless fighting a stealther.

 

RS is still pointless without the crit proc, but we will get more crit procs thanks to the 1.2 change. Do you use RS in your rotation currently in PVE Ops? If so, where do you weave it in and why?

 

When you say 1162 for the dot are you talking per tick or for the 15 seconds it's up? because if it's 1162 baseline damage over 15 seconds that 77 damage per tick which makes it easily the worst tick in the game. This means the only benefit to using it in pve would be for the CG procs in 1.2.

 

I used it in pve, but it's really, really a toss up. Let's say your Ion Pulse hits for 1550, and your RB for 804 with a tick of 77 per tick. Is the additional 1162 damage gained worth the loss of the 1550 you gave up to get it?

Edited April 6, 2012 by TheOpf

[Hizoka]

RS is still pointless without the crit proc, but we will get more crit procs thanks to the 1.2 change. Do you use RS in your rotation currently in PVE Ops? If so, where do you weave it in and why?

 

When you say 1162 for the dot are you talking per tick or for the 15 seconds it's up? because if it's 1162 baseline damage over 15 seconds that 77 damage per tick which makes it easily the worst tick in the game. This means the only benefit to using it in pve would be for the CG procs in 1.2.

 

I used it in pve, but it's really, really a toss up. Let's say your Ion Pulse hits for 1550, and your RB for 804 with a tick of 77 per tick. Is the additional 1162 damage gained worth the loss of the 1550 you gave up to get it?

 

i use it right now only to get used to using it. The way i do it right now to try and get used to it for 1.2 is at the start of the fight (you know everyone is far away) the tank charges in and i fire an explosive darth and start running fighting off 2 rapid shots normally then when i get there RB is the fight thing i do, if that provs the crt on RS i use that and i got a timer set for the RB dot. When i see RS about to come off cooldown i know my dot just wore off and i reapply it and do RS again. I have just goten used to the timing so i never lose free RP procs. But i would NEVER put RB and RS above a feww RP proc or risk losing a stack of PFT.

 

If you look RBs dot RS and Immolate are all on 15 secon cooldowns, so if you get used to the flow of it you can always use them one right after another when they come off cooldown. between them is when you use flame burst and rocket punch and rapid shots to manage heat.

 

It is 100% different then playing pyro.

[exphryl]

 

It is 100% different then playing pyro.

 

Except, it's not.

[Hizoka]

Except, it's not.

 

you do not play the spec so please just don't post

[Karandor]

I am actually looking forward to 1.2 changes. Those who currently play AP regularly correct me if I am wrong on this.

 

Live Rotation (without Rail shot) The proc rate is so low that it's not even worth bothering to use it unless you want to screw up your rotation. A Crit based RS hits for less than Immolate, rocket punch, or Flame burst crit. Since th e proc rate is so low is there any reason to use it except in pvp situations where you have a runner?

 

So your inherent priority rotation would change to:

 

Prototype Flame Thrower (5stacks)/Pulse Generator

Rocket Punch (free RP)/Stockstrike

Immolate/Fire Pulse

Rocket Punch (non-free)/Stockstrike

Retractable Blade/Gut

Flame Burst/Ion Pulse

 

We essentially take Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt out of the rotation due to it's heat/bullets cost and it's lack of damage compared to the alternative. Granted this is without any sort of testing except in terms of fluidity of rotation.

Your PVE rotation would essentially look like this:

Missle as you approach, Immolate, RP, RB, FBx4, RP (if Proc), FB, PFT Rinse and repeat

 

In 1.2 with RB proccing the RS crit, it might be worth weaving RS back into the rotation because your proc would be more often.

 

Priority for 1.2

PFT (5 stacks)

RP (free)

Imm

RB

RS (Charged Gauntlets)

FB

RP (cost)

 

Your PVE rotation would essentially look like this:

Missle as approach, Imm, RP, RB, RS (if procced) FBx4, PFT (rinse and repeat)

 

The reason for dumping the costed 25 to the bottom is because we need room for RS. The only thing is that you never want to use RP if you have RS on Proc because RP has a chance to proc the crit.

 

PFT x 5 = more important than using your free RB or procced crit unless the proc would wear off before the end of the PFT. At this point, you would use them. Though I think PFT followed by RB/RS would be some serious damage.

 

I've removed RS (well HiB, I'm a VG) from my rotation and all talents associated with it and it works out just fine.

 

8/31/2 no RS spec

 

Basically I've removed gut and HiB from my rotation unless I need gut on a stealther. I've see no noticeable reduction in my effectiveness.

 

This has been a great thread for me because I've really been able to look at the spec objectively and peel off anything that doesn't really help. Gut and HiB are better off as 2X ion pulse for PG stacks. The damage is better with 2X IP and I'm 3s closer to having a 5 stack pule cannon ready. Also my targets do 4% less damage and I can easily get the CD reduction on my stun.

 

After 1.2 I may change back but I'm not sure. 6 talent points on an ability I can only use once every 15s is seeming more and more like a waste.

 

 

ALSO CONFIRMED: PULSE GENERATOR STACKS ALSO INCREASES MORTAR VOLLEY DAMAGE.

 

No idea if this also works for Powertechs with DFA.

 

Note: This is purely PvP. I have not done any PvE testing.

[Assaultrooper]

RS is still pointless without the crit proc, but we will get more crit procs thanks to the 1.2 change. Do you use RS in your rotation currently in PVE Ops? If so, where do you weave it in and why?

 

When you say 1162 for the dot are you talking per tick or for the 15 seconds it's up? because if it's 1162 baseline damage over 15 seconds that 77 damage per tick which makes it easily the worst tick in the game. This means the only benefit to using it in pve would be for the CG procs in 1.2.

 

I used it in pve, but it's really, really a toss up. Let's say your Ion Pulse hits for 1550, and your RB for 804 with a tick of 77 per tick. Is the additional 1162 damage gained worth the loss of the 1550 you gave up to get it?

 

Hey man I was looking at your build, and was wondering why you took the full 60% armor penetration talent then? You said it yourself not to use RS but on proc, and if you take into account crits bypass all defenses (including armor, I might be wrong here maybe ) this talent is effectively useless. There goes my two cents ^^

[exphryl]

you do not play the spec so please just don't post

 

Do not make idiot statements, or assume I haven't played the spec for a few weeks before.

 

In a PvE Environment, they are pretty much the "same". You weave in FT as AP and you get to Rapid Shot less. Otherwise it's FB Spam until you get procs and RP when it's available, using RS with Crit Procs. (Which I don't know from the earlier discussion, my RS crits pretty nicely in a full AP Build so not sure why you (Opf) are seeing different results)

 

In a PvP Environment, the difference presents itself in Snaring. If Pyro suffed the same snare issues as AP it would be quite mediocre in PvP Also.

Edited April 7, 2012 by exphryl

[Assaultrooper]

Do not make idiot statements, or assume I haven't played the spec for a few weeks before.

 

In a PvE Environment, they are pretty much the "same". You weave in FT as AP and you get to Rapid Shot less. Otherwise it's FB Spam until you get procs and RP when it's available, using RS with Crit Procs. (Which I don't know from the earlier discussion, my RS crits pretty nicely in a full AP Build so not sure why you are seeing different results)

 

In a PvP Environment, the difference presents itself in Snaring. If Pyro suffed the same snare issues as AP it would be quite mediocre in PvP Also.

 

Exept PvE wise ur wrong... Not only do u not get any proc system (ok maybe u do but AP procs are sooo irrelevant that they seriously don't count) watsoever, but u also have mantain a melee dot, immo and ED in cd, as well as RP. It plays out completely different than one another... As comparing arms vs fury in wow....

Edited April 7, 2012 by Assaultrooper

[Xsorus]

I've honestly wondered if Rail shot was bothering to use with AP also, I mean...you waste so many talent points for an ability that hits less then Flameburst, I just don't see the advantage in it for the spec.

 

I mean if you just completely take the ability off your bar, you can get by only wasting really one point on the first tier.

 

This allows you to pick up 2% damage reduction, and 10 seconds off your Stun, with 20% damage reduction while stunned.

 

You also don't have to waste points in Shield tech line on it either, and can pickup a debuff for your primary attack that reduces damage by another 4%

 

Just seems like a huge waste to even bother with Railshot.