Knockbacks: Facing requirement please

[Malanoth]

I'll keep it short. Most people serious about PvP should understand. 360 degree knockbacks do not require any skill. Any opponent in range and the spam of their knockback key and its cheese a kill (if on a bridge, etc) or cheap way to to avoid damage.

 

Making it so that all knockback abilities have a facing requirement, for example a 120 or 140 degree frontal cone would make players use their knockbacks a liitle more tactically and actually think about moving into the right position in PvP. It also adds an element of error or bad judgement and mistakes should be punishable. Thats all part of PvP. Right now there is no penalty for bad use of knockbacks theya re just blindly spammed. Hardly a skillful defensive cooldown in PvP. or an offensive one for that matter.

[maticlandarr]

Sounds like someone got pushed into acid/fire. But i agree BW should def make every class exactly the same so i dont have to read another post like tbis.

[Invictusthetaru]

Spec vigilance and never worry about knockbacks again!

 

Seriously I have no issue with them.

[anwg]

It'd make the skill impossible to use given lag

[Stradoo]

I'll keep it short. Most people serious about PvP should understand. 360 degree knockbacks do not require any skill. Any opponent in range and the spam of their knockback key and its cheese a kill (if on a bridge, etc) or cheap way to to avoid damage.

 

Making it so that all knockback abilities have a facing requirement, for example a 120 or 140 degree frontal cone would make players use their knockbacks a liitle more tactically and actually think about moving into the right position in PvP. It also adds an element of error or bad judgement and mistakes should be punishable. Thats all part of PvP. Right now there is no penalty for bad use of knockbacks theya re just blindly spammed. Hardly a skillful defensive cooldown in PvP. or an offensive one for that matter.

 

Sounds like you really know what your talking about. Sign me up!

 

o.o

[Pistols]

I'll keep it short. Most people serious about PvP should understand. 360 degree knockbacks do not require any skill. Any opponent in range and the spam of their knockback key and its cheese a kill (if on a bridge, etc) or cheap way to to avoid damage.

 

Making it so that all knockback abilities have a facing requirement, for example a 120 or 140 degree frontal cone would make players use their knockbacks a liitle more tactically and actually think about moving into the right position in PvP. It also adds an element of error or bad judgement and mistakes should be punishable. Thats all part of PvP. Right now there is no penalty for bad use of knockbacks theya re just blindly spammed. Hardly a skillful defensive cooldown in PvP. or an offensive one for that matter.

 

Lemme guess, you play a glowbat profession...amirite?

[TDRedmage]

The AoE knockback is probably the most over-rated ability in the game. You can avoid getting knocked into the fire/acid with smart positioning. Don't get between the sorc/sage and the fire. Very simple.

 

When you're crossing the bridge in voidstar walk down the center and again - don't get between the sorc/sage and the ledge.

 

Also I don't see how reducing the radius would fix your problem. So they'd have to face you to knock you to your death? Big deal, that's not hard.

[Ivonichke]

I'll keep it short. Most people serious about PvP should understand. 360 degree knockbacks do not require any skill. Any opponent in range and the spam of their knockback key and its cheese a kill (if on a bridge, etc) or cheap way to to avoid damage.

 

Making it so that all knockback abilities have a facing requirement, for example a 120 or 140 degree frontal cone would make players use their knockbacks a liitle more tactically and actually think about moving into the right position in PvP. It also adds an element of error or bad judgement and mistakes should be punishable. Thats all part of PvP. Right now there is no penalty for bad use of knockbacks theya re just blindly spammed. Hardly a skillful defensive cooldown in PvP. or an offensive one for that matter.

 

Is it a cheaper way to avoid damage than intervening/sprinting away/vanishing? Probably not. It's probably more realistic seeing as it still leaves the users (usually) vulnerable to retaliation. Not like the AOE KB clears targets.

 

Even with a 360 area, bad judgement/mistakes are still punishable courtesy of game mechanics/issues. Ever seen someone ***** about being between the ball carrier and the goal line, using KB, then seeing the score? What about those times in VS where it should be an easy KB sweep of the bridge, but suddenly all three of the people you were aiming at are safely knocked to the other side?

 

Non issue.

[FourTwent]

I'll keep it short. Most people serious about PvP should understand. 360 degree knockbacks do not require any skill. Any opponent in range and the spam of their knockback key and its cheese a kill (if on a bridge, etc) or cheap way to to avoid damage.

 

Making it so that all knockback abilities have a facing requirement, for example a 120 or 140 degree frontal cone would make players use their knockbacks a liitle more tactically and actually think about moving into the right position in PvP. It also adds an element of error or bad judgement and mistakes should be punishable. Thats all part of PvP. Right now there is no penalty for bad use of knockbacks theya re just blindly spammed. Hardly a skillful defensive cooldown in PvP. or an offensive one for that matter.

 

hate to tell you, but minus someone coming 'out of no where' to hit you with a knockback, these aren't any big deal at all.

 

any time I leap up to someone and start attacking them, if they are a class I know has a knockback, then I immediately position myself so that I wont get knocked off the left and right sides. 90% of the time I stay on the ledge, and can kill them, 10% of the time they got the proper position and knock me off.

 

sorry, but learn to play

[wolverstreets]

Aww. Someone fell off the bridge.

[Coldin]

I'll keep it short. Most people serious about PvP should understand. 360 degree knockbacks do not require any skill. Any opponent in range and the spam of their knockback key and its cheese a kill (if on a bridge, etc) or cheap way to to avoid damage.

 

Making it so that all knockback abilities have a facing requirement, for example a 120 or 140 degree frontal cone would make players use their knockbacks a liitle more tactically and actually think about moving into the right position in PvP. It also adds an element of error or bad judgement and mistakes should be punishable. Thats all part of PvP. Right now there is no penalty for bad use of knockbacks theya re just blindly spammed. Hardly a skillful defensive cooldown in PvP. or an offensive one for that matter.

 

I agree...partly. Knockbacks are very powerful, and most people that support either have them, or aren't affected by them. AOE knockbacks are incredibly easy to use, and do not require much skill beyond timing. I think all that really needs to be done though, is make knockbacks add more to resolve.

[DaedalusV]

hate to tell you, but minus someone coming 'out of no where' to hit you with a knockback, these aren't any big deal at all.

 

any time I leap up to someone and start attacking them, if they are a class I know has a knockback, then I immediately position myself so that I wont get knocked off the left and right sides. 90% of the time I stay on the ledge, and can kill them, 10% of the time they got the proper position and knock me off.

 

sorry, but learn to play

 

QFT

 

If the counter to a skill is positioning, then there's no reason to nerf the skill. Practice your positioning skills.

 

 

I would be grateful, if the disparity between Sorc knockbacks and sage knockbacks got fixed. I have yet to "win" a knockback fight between a sorc and me. Their KB is instant, mine's got a jumping animation first. All sorcs needs to do is look for that jump and react to win the KB fight.

[ShakesMcQueen]

Why should knockbacks require more skill to use? If I'm a sniper in cover, should I have to get up and face the operative attacking me in order to push him away?

 

I'm with most of the other people here - use smarter positioning. Knockbacks, for many classes, are primarily designed to be a panic button to get people off of you. Requiring you to face them will also just introduce a while new world of headaches with people clipping through one another, trying not to face eachother.

[Malanoth]

I generally do use smart positioning, I am not daft or new to MMO PvP. Comments like "aww, did someone get knocked into fire?" is really a daft thing to say and moot point. I've been knocked into fire, knocked off bridges, ramps, ledges more times than I remember and I can say with some degree of confidence that you have too. Even when you try to use smart positioning you are still vulnerable to mistakes, distractions and ultimately you will be in a bad position and get knocked back. I accept the current mechanic and get on with it. But that doesn't make it right.

 

Putting a facing requirement on knockbacks will force more tactical play and it won't be simply a fire and forget ability. If you are the ball carrier in Hutball for example and you have 4 melee running at you from all directions you are going to need to decide which players you are going to knock back and turn to face them. It just raises the skill level a bit because you are going to need to think about who of those 4 players is going to be the most damagerous, who has the most burst, or better cc, or even the fuller hp bar, etc.

 

Its not a massive change in the grand scheme of things (and yes I do play a Jugg and a Sorc that has knockbacks) but it would certainly add a bit more depth to players reactions and decision making process. But whatever, I can see that the elite here have never ever been knocked into fire, acid or fallen to their death cos they are so pro at PvP bro.

[ShakesMcQueen]

I generally do use smart positioning, I am not daft or new to MMO PvP. Comments like "aww, did someone get knocked into fire?" is really a daft thing to say and moot point. I've been knocked into fire, knocked off bridges, ramps, ledges more times than I remember and I can say with some degree of confidence that you have too. Even when you try to use smart positioning you are still vulnerable to mistakes, distractions and ultimately you will be in a bad position and get knocked back. I accept the current mechanic and get on with it. But that doesn't make it right.

 

Putting a facing requirement on knockbacks will force more tactical play and it won't be simply a fire and forget ability. If you are the ball carrier in Hutball for example and you have 4 melee running at you from all directions you are going to need to decide which players you are going to knock back and turn to face them. It just raises the skill level a bit because you are going to need to think about who of those 4 players is going to be the most damagerous, who has the most burst, or better cc, or even the fuller hp bar, etc.

 

Its not a massive change in the grand scheme of things (and yes I do play a Jugg and a Sorc that has knockbacks) but it would certainly add a bit more depth to players reactions and decision making process. But whatever, I can see that the elite here have never ever been knocked into fire, acid or fallen to their death cos they are so pro at PvP bro.

 

So you think you should be immune to your own mistakes and distractions, by making things harder for the attacker?

 

I've been killed in fire and acid more times than I can count - that doesn't mean the knockback that put me there is broken. It means I use smarter positioning to minimize these occasions.

 

And as I said, this requirement would result in people clipping through eachother, trying to avoid being in the front-facing "cone of sight". You're fundamentally changing the function of a pretty much universal talent, to avoid the odd moment of irritation in a single PvP WZ.

 

And yes, your proposal would be a MASSIVE change, given how often and strategically knockbacks are currently used in PvP and PvE alike.

[Ivonichke]

I generally do use smart positioning, I am not daft or new to MMO PvP. Comments like "aww, did someone get knocked into fire?" is really a daft thing to say and moot point. I've been knocked into fire, knocked off bridges, ramps, ledges more times than I remember and I can say with some degree of confidence that you have too. Even when you try to use smart positioning you are still vulnerable to mistakes, distractions and ultimately you will be in a bad position and get knocked back. I accept the current mechanic and get on with it. But that doesn't make it right.

 

Putting a facing requirement on knockbacks will force more tactical play and it won't be simply a fire and forget ability. If you are the ball carrier in Hutball for example and you have 4 melee running at you from all directions you are going to need to decide which players you are going to knock back and turn to face them. It just raises the skill level a bit because you are going to need to think about who of those 4 players is going to be the most damagerous, who has the most burst, or better cc, or even the fuller hp bar, etc.

 

Its not a massive change in the grand scheme of things (and yes I do play a Jugg and a Sorc that has knockbacks) but it would certainly add a bit more depth to players reactions and decision making process. But whatever, I can see that the elite here have never ever been knocked into fire, acid or fallen to their death cos they are so pro at PvP bro.

If you've got 4 melee running at you in huttball, odds are good 3 of the 4 have a gap closer. If they're running, they're not doing so well. But you're right, make the target face the people for his KB - because we won't have melee running in circles, strafing around trying to clear the angle thus negating the KB altogether.

 

There's a lot of things I think SWTOR didn't do so well on in PvP, but eliminating the run-through melee tactics isn't one of them.

[Dee-Jay]

The 8m radius and 20-30 second cooldown is far more insulting than the AoE.

[EnochThompson]

You do know that all the melee dps can take out sorc/sages even with this knockback. This is our only way to get away... Ill take this change if BW puts a 2 minute timer on all charge and pull abilities melee's have.

[BambulaGTS]

Sounds like making sniper's knockback useless.

[FHCX]

I am not sure that in Hut Ball you can position yourself on the bridge that you won't either be knocked back into the fire or off the bridge giving a clear path for the ball carrier. As far as the other 2 WZ'S I see the knock back as more of a minor nuisance they can get cleared but only for a few seconds.

 

I do think that there should be some sort of tactical positioning required for the caster. If I am forced to face my single target to force choke then at least let them get close to facing their multiple targets a little.

[clubdeeko]

I'll keep it short. Most people serious about PvP should understand. 360 degree knockbacks do not require any skill. Any opponent in range and the spam of their knockback key and its cheese a kill (if on a bridge, etc) or cheap way to to avoid damage.

 

Making it so that all knockback abilities have a facing requirement, for example a 120 or 140 degree frontal cone would make players use their knockbacks a liitle more tactically and actually think about moving into the right position in PvP. It also adds an element of error or bad judgement and mistakes should be punishable. Thats all part of PvP. Right now there is no penalty for bad use of knockbacks theya re just blindly spammed. Hardly a skillful defensive cooldown in PvP. or an offensive one for that matter.

 

Dry your eyes, Sober up and learn to play.

Edited April 4, 2012 by clubdeeko

[Darth_Philar]

I think we can reach a compromise. I'll take a KB that uses a frontal cone so long as it has a 5 second CD and no Force Cost.

[EnochThompson]

I am not sure that in Hut Ball you can position yourself on the bridge that you won't either be knocked back into the fire or off the bridge giving a clear path for the ball carrier. As far as the other 2 WZ'S I see the knock back as more of a minor nuisance they can get cleared but only for a few seconds.

 

I do think that there should be some sort of tactical positioning required for the caster. If I am forced to face my single target to force choke then at least let them get close to facing their multiple targets a little.

 

Do you not realize how many gap closers you have as melee dps? Does it really make a difference if we can aoe knockback when you can charge us in an instant... Are you really that bad with your mdps??

 

Opertives should complain about this since they require to be behind a target in order to do the opening HS and they have no gap closers once we knock them back.

 

This game really has bad players that is destroying the game, thank god GW2 is coming out, pre-order in a couple of days with weekend beta is going to kill this game.

[Adzzy]

I agree...partly. Knockbacks are very powerful, and most people that support either have them, or aren't affected by them. AOE knockbacks are incredibly easy to use, and do not require much skill beyond timing. I think all that really needs to be done though, is make knockbacks add more to resolve.

 

everyone that pvps is effected by them, unless somehow they've managed to never play huttball, or ever run across the ramp in void star near an enemy player.....

Edited April 5, 2012 by Adzzy

[Ivonichke]

KBs already add more to resolve than I think they should. Repositioning you is not the same as preventing you from moving, getting back to where you want to be, preventing action, etc. KBs are a useful tool, but they aren't CC.

 

"ohnoes, I used my 15s CD gap closer to leap up platforms to get in range in huttball and he used his 20s aoe KB to push me off the platform..."

 

The only people who should be complaining about KBs are ops/scoundrels. No gap closer, no speed burst that I know of.