Valor<50 -- Why PvP Prior to 1.2?

[anstalt]

I'm sure many people have already pointed this out, but in 1.2

 

Champion Gear is better than Recruit Gear!

 

Full champion gear currently nets you roughly 650 expertise. Recruit gear nets you roughly 850 expertise.

 

However, champion gear has superior stats everywhere else and it has the set bonuses. So, whilst you may be missing out on 2-3% expertise bonus, you'll be gaining a lot more stats which easily overcomes that difference and the set bonuses should help you own people.

 

Furthermore, champion gear is fully moddable, recruit gear isn't.

 

 

I 100% guaruntee you that players in champion gear will beat players in recruit gear, assuming equal skill/balance etc.

 

 

The only thing that is getting trashed is centurion gear. But, cent gear is trash now, 1.2 doesn't change that, just be thankful you can buy a better alternative!

 

(For the record, I was valor 53 when they announced the pvp changes in 1.2, I'm currently valor 61 and working on bm gear. The announcement actually motivated me to pvp more, not less ).

[Pekish]

because it's a game just play the mofo game

 

>> economy class profit/time

<< game enjoy what u doing fun/time

 

if u dont enjoy pvp don't do it either before or after.

[radbass]

Actually that is one of the reasons I quit WoW. Grinding out the Arena wins for all my gear for both specs only to have to grind Honor gear next season because its better than last season's Conquest gear. Then have to grind out the current season's Conquest gear...

 

That ruined it for me. I'd have been ok with next season's Honor gear being equal to last season's Conquest gear to level the field for newer players. That combined with a similar thing on the PVE side was just a little too much gear treadmill for me.

 

when you sub to a gear based mmo you need to understand that that is what it is. theres no end of the story, no final reward. just a constant grind to get the next shiny for no real reason.

[radbass]

I'm sure many people have already pointed this out, but in 1.2

 

Champion Gear is better than Recruit Gear!

 

Full champion gear currently nets you roughly 650 expertise. Recruit gear nets you roughly 850 expertise.

 

However, champion gear has superior stats everywhere else and it has the set bonuses. So, whilst you may be missing out on 2-3% expertise bonus, you'll be gaining a lot more stats which easily overcomes that difference and the set bonuses should help you own people.

 

 

ok.... just make sure you have all the facts before blurting out something in massive yellow text. first of all all updated pvp is having main stats lowered and expertise buffed. in addition, the soft cap on expertise is being raised and expertise is being made even more effective than it already is. this is to prevent people from running pve operations in the now easy-to-obtain battlemaster gear.

 

in pvp expertise provides bonus dmg, dmg reduction, AND bonuses to healing received. that 200 expertise difference is HUGE, and is much more important than the other stats.

[Sorcerix]

All the people replying with the "pvp for fun" comment: please read the OP again.

 

He obviously plays for fun, but his time to have "fun" is limited because he has a family, hence he'll probably never see BM gear. The fun factor has got nothing to do with his post.

 

@OP: Fully agree with you. When you spend 2 months grinding gear, and log in after a patch and suddenly you are able to instantly buy better gear than what you grinded, then something is wrong.

 

In wow you could also buy blue entry level pvp gear. If you wanted season tier gear you had to work for it and the wow tier gear didn't instantly become useless after 1 patch - that's the difference!

 

Bioware messed up.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Meluna
language

[Jestunhi]

ok.... just make sure you have all the facts before blurting out something in massive yellow text. first of all all updated pvp is having main stats lowered and expertise buffed. in addition, the soft cap on expertise is being raised and expertise is being made even more effective than it already is. this is to prevent people from running pve operations in the now easy-to-obtain battlemaster gear.

 

in pvp expertise provides bonus dmg, dmg reduction, AND bonuses to healing received. that 200 expertise difference is HUGE, and is much more important than the other stats.

 

Healing recieved?

 

Not according to any stat or tooltip (or dev post) that I have seen.

 

Source please.

[Jestunhi]

All the people replying with the "pvp for fun" comment: please read the OP again.

 

He obviously plays for fun, but his time to have "fun" is limited because he has a family, hence he'll probably never see BM gear. The fun factor has got nothing to do with his post.

 

@OP: Fully agree with you. When you spend 2 months grinding gear, and log in after a patch and suddenly you are able to instantly buy better gear than what you grinded, then something is wrong.

 

In wow you could also buy blue entry level pvp gear. If you wanted season tier gear you had to work for it and the wow tier gear didn't instantly become useless after 1 patch - that's the difference!

 

Bioware messed up.

 

Stop playing MMORPGs if you don't want this.

 

MMO's need to keep you playing (and paying), thats why MMOs tend to increase level cap, add higher level / quality gear, etc.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Meluna

[radbass]

All the people replying with the "pvp for fun" comment: please read the OP again.

 

He obviously plays for fun, but his time to have "fun" is limited because he has a family, hence he'll probably never see BM gear. The fun factor has got nothing to do with his post.

 

@OP: Fully agree with you. When you spend 2 months grinding gear, and log in after a patch and suddenly you are able to instantly buy better gear than what you grinded, then something is wrong.

 

In wow you could also buy blue entry level pvp gear. If you wanted season tier gear you had to work for it and the wow tier gear didn't instantly become useless after 1 patch - that's the difference!

 

Bioware messed up.

 

I can do that too. ITS A NEW GAME WHEN YOU PLAY A GAME AT LAUNCH YOU HAVE TO EXPECT THINGS LIKE THIS IF YOU DONT LIKE IT MAYBE YOU SHOULDNT HAVE BOUGHT THE GAME SO SOON AFTER LAUNCH

Edited April 4, 2012 by Meluna

[radbass]

Healing recieved?

 

Not according to any stat or tooltip (or dev post) that I have seen.

 

Source please.

 

hm.... i may be incorrect on that part. but 200 expertise is still an enormous difference, especially after 1.2. champ and recruit gear are going to be about equal in pvp.

 

the big change is that pvp gear isnt going to be better for pve than pve gear anymore. and thats how it should be.

Edited April 4, 2012 by radbass

[Schwarzwald]

Seriously, why PvP before 1.2?

 

BM gear is required to buy warhero. People who currently have BM gear will get to warhero much faster then those without.

 

/thread

[Jestunhi]

hm.... i may be incorrect on that part. but 200 expertise is still an enormous difference, especially after 1.2. champ and recruit gear are going to be about equal in pvp.

 

the big change is that pvp gear isnt going to be better for pve than pve gear anymore. and thats how it should be.

 

Unless you know the post 1.2 expertise formula and exactly how much lower the other stats will be on recruit compared with champ, I'll take your opinion as just that, an opinion and not a fact.

 

And pvp gear has never been better for pve, barring possible set bonus differences. But even then the pvp set bonus needs to be hella better to make up for all the lost main stat.

[dirtyv]

 

While the Champion gear vendor has been replaced with the Recruit gear vendor, they are two separate item sets. You can no longer acquire Centurion or Champion gear, but they are still in the game if you already have them. Recruit gear is a new set of blue PvP gear. It has no mods and is purchased with credits. Champion is fully moddable purple gear with a set bonus.

 

If you already have Champion gear, the biggest difference you will notice is that you can now see the Armoring in appropriate items. This armoring can be extracted, and it binds to the specific slot it came from - such as the chest or legs.

 

It's possible that there are exceptions, but the stats on your Champion gear should be unchanged. The armoring mod in them accounts for the stats on the gear that used to be unmodifiable.

 

Unlike Champion gear, Battlemaster gear does have stat changes. All current and future (1.2+) tier PvP gear is going through a stat transition to give it more expertise. This means you will see many more expertise versions of Mods and Enhancements instead of primarily on the base mod (Armoring/Hilt/Barrel).

 

 

 

I found this in a Dev discussion.

 

Ergo the purple should have higher armor values and higher stat values. The set bonus should make a difference... If not then guess what? You can upgrade your entire set for $$$.

Edited April 4, 2012 by dirtyv

[Sorcerix]

Stop playing MMORPGs if you don't want this.

 

MMO's need to keep you playing (and paying), thats why MMOs tend to increase level cap, add higher level / quality gear, etc.

 

There's a reason I highlighted the important bits and put it in bold. Try reading it again and think for two seconds before you reply please. Amazing how some people don't understand what's being said but will still hit the reply button and write irrelevant crap, regardless of the point being made.

 

Of course mmos have to increase gear level with each patch, I think most people on this forum understand MMO101. The point is that it is bad design if your grinded gear INSTANTLY lose its value with the release of a new patch instead of being (semi) viable during a new patch.

[radbass]

And pvp gear has never been better for pve, barring possible set bonus differences. But even then the pvp set bonus needs to be hella better to make up for all the lost main stat.

what im saying is you can currently run hardmode operations in battlemaster gear because it is better than columi. considering it will now be possible to get full BM before you even hit 50, they needed to adjust the way PVP gear works to keep people from skipping the HM flashpoint stage entirely.

[Sorcerix]

I can do that too. ITS A NEW GAME WHEN YOU PLAY A GAME AT LAUNCH YOU HAVE TO EXPECT THINGS LIKE THIS IF YOU DONT LIKE IT MAYBE YOU SHOULDNT HAVE BOUGHT THE GAME SO SOON AFTER LAUNCH

 

Great argument, thanks.

[radbass]

Great argument, thanks.

 

you're welcome.

[Grouchy_one]

ok.... just make sure you have all the facts before blurting out something in massive yellow text. first of all all updated pvp is having main stats lowered and expertise buffed. in addition, the soft cap on expertise is being raised and expertise is being made even more effective than it already is. this is to prevent people from running pve operations in the now easy-to-obtain battlemaster gear.

 

in pvp expertise provides bonus dmg, dmg reduction, AND bonuses to healing received. that 200 expertise difference is HUGE, and is much more important than the other stats.

 

I think that he may have been basing his statement on the analysis done on dulfy.net where Dulfy says that it would be better using champion and progressing to battlemaster because of 10%+ reduction in hit points and all other primary and secondary stats. Dulfy compares all variations of recruit armor (as of the March 29th update) against current PTS champion armor to come to his conclusion. So when you add in the set bonus, Dulfy concludes that the 4% increase in actual expertise effect (according to analysis on sithwarrior.com that 200 expertise difference results in 4% more damage given and 4% less damage taken) doesn't outweigh the 10%+ penalty when you switch from champion to recruit.

 

Having said that, this conclusion may change depending on what happens as a result of today's PTS patch.

[radbass]

I think that he may have been basing his statement on the analysis done on dulfy.net where Dulfy says that it would be better using champion and progressing to battlemaster because of 10%+ reduction in hit points and all other primary and secondary stats. Dulfy compares all variations of recruit armor (as of the March 29th update) against current PTS champion armor to come to his conclusion. So when you add in the set bonus, Dulfy concludes that the 4% increase in actual expertise effect (according to analysis on sithwarrior.com that 200 expertise difference results in 4% more damage given and 4% less damage taken) doesn't outweigh the 10%+ penalty when you switch from champion to recruit.

 

Having said that, this conclusion may change depending on what happens as a result of today's PTS patch.

 

yes and also bear in mind that BW is buffing expertise, tho they havnt given specifics.

[TDRedmage]

All the people replying with the idiotic "pvp for fun" comment: please read the OP again.

 

He obviously plays for fun, but his time to have "fun" is limited because he has a family, hence he'll probably never see BM gear. The fun factor has got nothing to do with his post

 

First off "idiotic" is pretty offensive... gonna go ahead and flag your post.

 

Second, I was simply asking why gear is a reason to pvp or not to pvp. This is a simple question. It is relevant to the OP, and in no way idiotic.

 

Is getting good gear "beating the game" for some people?

Edited April 4, 2012 by TDRedmage

[LordDeschain]

where do you buy or earn mods that you will use for pvp?

[Fredcat]

First of all, what do you mean "you people"? Second of all, this had nothing to do with this being a new mmo. BW has not stated why BM gear is getting updated stats and not Champ gear. People who haven't hit the arbitrary valor rank of 60 are bring penalized. Players with bad rng that have hit valor rank 60 are being penalized as well. This is not an issue of working out the kinks of a new mmo.

 

Do they have to explain the most obvious things? Because BM is the current end game PVP armor. Champion gear is nothing more then a point in your progress to BM gear. Champion is nothing more then companion gear to people already at end game.

 

You're NOT being penalized, valor is easier to get then ever and so is the gear and it's getting easier in 1.2.

[CaptainInsano]

Why PVP before 1.2? The same reason you'll be PVPing after 1.2 . For competition against other players. If you're pvping purely for gear and not for constantly developing strategy and effort to win against other players, you're missing the point in my opinion.

 

If you can't see any point to playing now, I don't see why you'd see any point to playing later. The point of PVP is to compete against other players, and hopefully to win. Not to get shinies. The shinies just help you win to a degree (though the discussion of the magnitude of their contribution is an entirely different barrel of Mon Calamari spawn).

 

 

EDIT: To the second poster, no -- all that gear you earned prior to 1.2 was not wasted. It went towards helping you compete. If you're a smartphone user, think of it like a last generation phone. Or perhaps a TV smaller than the current market standard. You bought it, it did its job, something better came along. You didn't waste your money on the item -- you paid for the use you got out of it. It might not be the biggest, brightest, or flashiest, but you can certainly continue to use it if you see fit.

 

Eh that's all fine and dandy but it's still an MMORPG. The entire system is built on making your character more powerful, that's where the "RPG" comes in. You're talking from an entirely competitive standpoint, which is not and will never be what MMOs are all about. Without gear and upgrades you might as well be playing a stripped down FPS. This isn't Counterstrike.

[yeux]

because you'll need to save at least 2000 comms for BM!

 

IMHO, as a tester and someone with alts that have always pvp'd for gear, the gear is useless now for 2 main reasons. 1) the cost has doubled 550 for a vis, 900 wep from 14-49. 2) The new crafted gear has aug slots and the pvp gear does not. That's 5-7 extra slots per item, which can be quite a large advantage if you aug them right.

[cupofwater]

I am more then frustrated that my cent gear on both of my 50s are now worthless. They need to make Cent gear at LEAST a little better then credit bought gear.

 

Centurion gear was useful pre 1.2?

 

I thought it was given to players so anyone with champion/bm could still stomp them, but at the same time allowing those centurion geared players to feel good about having some purples.

 

 

EDIT:

 

@ OP

 

Why do you even pvp then? If the sole purpose of you pvping is to get gear and have a cool title, what are you working for? You will eventually get full top ranked gear and then what will you do? Probably come cry on the forums about having nothing to work for.

Edited April 4, 2012 by cupofwater

[Graushwein]

This is why I normally don't make forum posts. Discussions rarely happen. It most often turns into a disapointing case study on intelligence and comprehension, or lack thereof!

 

I've already said I like PvP, but that isn't relevant to the topic.

I don't have enough time to get to Battlemaster gear.

All effort expended beyond the 1k WZ commendation cap will be devalued to a third.

 

What would the PvP community do if Battlemaster gear wouldn't be updated and equivalent to recruit gear? The same Trolls in this thread would be moaning and threatening rage-quits by the hundreds because they "earned" the, soon to be worthless, BM gear! As all of these "FUN" posters have BM gear, their views are clearly biased towards their own elite statuses, which is juvenile and makes thier statements nearly invalid. Your game time is worth no more than mine. In-game effort should be similarly affected accross the board, not just certain groups. I find it so sad that there are so many narcissist gamers that would rather flaunt their "elite status" than empathize with another human being! Instead we're being inundated with people who also lack the mental discipline and capacity to stick to a plainly stated topic.

 

The main point of my argument is that the avid gamer's time/effort is being favored by BioWare while the more casual gamer's time/effort is nearly negated due to the fact that the EXPERTISE SYSTEM was changed. Avid gamer-level gear is being updated to be in line with the new system, so they do not lose comparative effectiveness. Yes new gear will be better, which I'd be fine with if casual gamer gear were updated to be slightly above recruit gear.

 

BioWare has a choice in whether they upgrade Champion and Centurion gear. It is a conscious decision.

 

From a perspective of getting better gear for PvP, it currently makes no sense to PvP if you aren't able to get to Battlemaster gear in the next few weeks beyond 1k WZ commendations. Your Merc commendations will be woth 1/3rd the effort you spent pre patch.