Scoobings Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Excellent compared to what? Iron Fist DMG comes from Stockstrike. U'd have been more convincing if u had said Parakeet spec. Post a pic of the highest dmg of a IF vanguard and I'll consider taking u off the baddie list... Yeah I was just thinking this. I don't think I've ever seen someone do assassin burst as IF. 4k stockstrikes inc! Edited April 4, 2012 by Scoobings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintair Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Some random points that people seem to bring up all the time... However, the Assassin also does full damage as a tank. He's also the best healer in the game that isn't healer speced, tied with Marauder. Yes he can only heal himself but like the Marauder he does this healing with no impact to his DPS game. He's even better than the healer archtype classes who are speced for DPS. If you're a Sor/Op/Merc speced for DPS, each point of healing you do costs you at least 1 point of damage, usually a lot more since your ability to do damage is generally much better than your ability to heal. You'll see Marauder/Darkness beat the healing output of any DPS speced 'healer' classes in WZ quite comfortably, simply because trying to heal in any meaningful numbers severely gimps any kind of DPS spec for those classes. Wrong, the more Self-Healing we do the LOWER our DPS gets by a nice margin. And we completely lose any ability to burst. Finally, some of those comparison is just ridiculous, like comparing AE snare ability of Jugg versus Assassin. Wither, if it only build a stack of HD and hits only a single target, is still a good rotation move (better DPF than Thrash). Therefore you can consider the AE damage + AE snare + AE debuff aspect of it to be totally free because you'd use it as a single target Thrash even if it did none of that. Therefore, the side effects on Thrash can be considered free. On the other hand, an AE snare fromo a Jugg uses 2 rage (can be talented to 1), and it also does no damage. It's certainly not a rotation move in any kind of DPS-producing sequence. Its sole purpose is to snare guys around you and yet it's more costly than Wither which snares everyone as a side effect. It's actually the same argument as Force Slow versus Wither. Yes in theory Force Slow is a better slow (50%) but it does no damage, so you're wasting a GCD to just snare someone instead of doing damage. With Wither, you're still doing your maximum damage and snaring the opponent while maintaining that DPS. You have no idea what your talking about. Slow Time/Wither is a 30% snare. Thats NOTHING compared to the Guard/Jugg one. Jugg/Guardian AoE Slow is by far their BEST ability. It is effective in Voidstar/Huttball and Alderaan AND is can be used as THE MOST effective way to peel from your Healer. Stop thinking DPS is king. This isn't WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zintair Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Bioware will determine what is too much. All I have to do is bring it to their attention. Glad you brought their most recent buffs to the class to their attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimspire Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Glad you brought their most recent buffs to the class to their attention Sometimes buffs can throw a class over the top. Sometimes (as much as most of us would deny it) it takes a few good players to start showing us what a class is actually capable of. This goes beyond numbers on paper or even the screenshots that others and myself have posted, especially when it comes to PvP. Arguments about survivability between tanks, for example, are actually moot because when it comes to PvP, all you have to do is be survivable enough to not be a primary focus target, survive until the objective is complete, survive until your healer returns, etc. etc., and the Tankasin is most assuredly survivable enough. Ultimately, the whole package that the Tankasin offers currently is over the top. It's just a little too good at everything with one spec. Even with reduced damage done while in Tank stance, you're still left with a really powerful class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidopro Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 probably soon....pretty much god tier ATM compared to anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Sometimes buffs can throw a class over the top. Sometimes (as much as most of us would deny it) it takes a few good players to start showing us what a class is actually capable of. This goes beyond numbers on paper or even the screenshots that others and myself have posted, especially when it comes to PvP. Arguments about survivability between tanks, for example, are actually moot because when it comes to PvP, all you have to do is be survivable enough to not be a primary focus target, survive until the objective is complete, survive until your healer returns, etc. etc., and the Tankasin is most assuredly survivable enough. Ultimately, the whole package that the Tankasin offers currently is over the top. It's just a little too good at everything with one spec. Even with reduced damage done while in Tank stance, you're still left with a really powerful class. You really should have led w/ this argument, instead of the focus on damage numbers and screenshots. Much better. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLakers Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) You really should have led w/ this argument, instead of the focus on damage numbers and screenshots. Much better. : ) The damage numbers and screenshots show just how stupidly overpowered and imbalanced the class is actually is. It's one thing calling a class/spec "a little too good" and another when you provide proof of a tank class putting out PURE dps class/spec's damage numbers, absurd healing and protection numbers all in one match. And thats on top of getting the best cooldowns and utility in the game. They need to be fixed and not just because they are FOTM and everybody is rolling one. They need to be fixed because they are broken in PvP and rated is on the horizon. Edited April 4, 2012 by TheLakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The damage numbers and screenshots show just how stupidly overpowered and imbalanced the class is actually is. It's one thing calling a class/spec "a little too good" and another when you provide proof of a tank class putting out PURE dps class/spec's damage numbers, absurd healing and protection numbers all in one match. And thats on top of getting the best cooldowns and utility in the game. They need to be fixed and not just because they are FOTM and everybody is rolling one. They need to be fixed because they are broken in PvP and rated is on the horizon. The damage numbers and screenshots don't show anything important whatsoever. If you still don't understand why, then this thread probably isn't going to be your epiphany. Just stop, you are hurting your own argument. I don't even care if they are nerfed or not, but it pains me to see people shoot themselves in the foot like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Scattered_ Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Excellent compared to what? Iron Fist DMG comes from Stockstrike. U'd have been more convincing if u had said Parakeet spec. Post a pic of the highest dmg of a IF vanguard and I'll consider taking u off the baddie list... http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/voidstarironfistdmg.jpg/ Taken today. You people on the forums talk about balance yet you are all way behind the meta game curve. My shadow is BiS, I destroy 99% of players I see because 99% of players suck at this game. 99% of dps can't even pull dps numbers, most of them don't even have surge soft cap. Tanking (guard) is nowhere near is a powerful as is commonly believed, in a pug environment where half the dps can't dps guard is ridiculous. Against a team of of decent players incoming dps almost triples, my guarded healer who most of the time seems pretty invincible all of sudden can barely keep himself alive let alone heal the team. Basically you all have no clue about game balance because pugging is a god awful indicator of how the game plays with full teams of competent players Edited April 5, 2012 by _Scattered_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarfunkz Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/voidstarironfistdmg.jpg/ Taken today. You people on the forums talk about balance yet you are all way behind the meta game curve. My shadow is BiS, I destroy 99% of players I see because 99% of players suck at this game. 99% of dps can't even pull dps numbers, most of them don't even have surge soft cap. Tanking (guard) is nowhere near is a powerful as is commonly believed, in a pug environment where half the dps can't dps guard is ridiculous. Against a team of of decent players incoming dps almost triples, my guarded healer who most of the time seems pretty invincible all of sudden can barely keep himself alive let alone heal the team. Basically you all have no clue about game balance because pugging is a god awful indicator of how the game plays with full teams of competent players 50% is the surge soft cap tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abiza Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 50% is the surge soft cap tbh... Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/voidstarironfistdmg.jpg/ Taken today. But according to the peeps here that is impossible to achieve must be dps spec with taunt **rollseyes*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 But according to the peeps here that is impossible to achieve must be dps spec with taunt **rollseyes*** Actually, according to the people here, 500k damage on a scoreboard doesn't mean anything except to the grossly uninformed. If you care about such a trivial thing, the problem is not Sins/Shadows, it is your understanding of the game in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Actually, according to the people here, 500k damage on a scoreboard doesn't mean anything except to the grossly uninformed. If you care about such a trivial thing, the problem is not Sins/Shadows, it is your understanding of the game in general. Wrong again bad breath that's all I been reading from the QQ nerf sin need to l2p crowd pure and simple. The sad crying peeps that post time and just time again about nerf nerf nerf, blows us that know better away. I read countless post on how others cant hit 300k - 500k in tank stance in other classes that have a tank spec I find it funny and sad. Bads need to stop being bad and maybe they can fix real bugs I am tired of being trapped in floors after an overload lol. Edited April 5, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarfunkz Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Wrong. No, it is true. Surge has diminishing returns off the bat... That is the definition of soft cap, when diminishing returns are activated... Power doesn't have it, core stats do not either (aim, str, wp, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLakers Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Wrong again bad breath that's all I been reading from the QQ nerf sin need to l2p crowd pure and simple. The sad crying peeps that post time and just time again about nerf nerf nerf, blows us that know better away. I read countless post on how others cant hit 300k - 500k in tank stance in other classes that have a tank spec I find it funny and sad. Bads need to stop being bad and maybe they can fix real bugs I am tired of being trapped in floors after an overload lol. So they're bads because they didn't roll a FOTM class that's overpowered and imbalanced on just about every level? That makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrXen Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) So they're bads because they didn't roll a FOTM class that's overpowered and imbalanced on just about every level? That makes sense. Flavor of the month class? Assassin's haven't been buffed, in fact they have been nerfed before and havn't been touched since. There were no buffs secretly present to date. Due to those nerfs to the damage tree's you see a lot more tank-assassins in pvp now (since its the only realistic spec to use in pvp now), and because of this people aren't able to "lul" at the nerfed side of assassin as often leading them to believe it should be nerfed further. The tank spec assassin is a weaker damage absorbing tank that makes up for it in utilities such as force speed and the ability to stealth, but with no burst, or hard-hitting opener from stealth why worry about it? Its utilities are force pull and force speed with the ability to heal as it aoe damages for fairly low numbers (but AoE's wrack up numbers on the end screen). It would be better to bring powertech tanks/juggernaught tanks up a slight notch (slight) than "nerf the entire assassin class." Guess what? Assassins aren't touched in 1.2 and juggs are buffed, and I don't know about powertech because I didn't look. The two things the tank assassin has over the other 2 tanks that everyone exaggerates into oblivion? ---> The ability to run away and escape with cooldowns, and the ability to heal for more than other tanks (still not very much but strong in 1v1 where small ticks matter). That is it. Outside of those two things, other tanks perform better in every way. Those are the only two advantages assassins have over other tanks. And before "what about force pull" juggernauts have intercede and powertechs have grapple so deal with it. And also before "but they can do 100000000 damage as a tank" no they can't their damage is very weak in single target, and at the low end in AoE. Edited April 6, 2012 by MrXen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Flavor of the month class? Assassin's haven't been buffed, in fact they have been nerfed before and havn't been touched since. There were no buffs secretly present to date. Due to those nerfs to the damage tree's you see a lot more tank-assassins in pvp now (since its the only realistic spec to use in pvp now), and because of this people aren't able to "lul" at the nerfed side of assassin as often leading them to believe it should be nerfed further. The tank spec assassin is a weaker damage absorbing tank that makes up for it in utilities such as force speed and the ability to stealth, but with no burst, or hard-hitting opener from stealth why worry about it? Its utilities are force pull and force speed with the ability to heal as it aoe damages for fairly low numbers (but AoE's wrack up numbers on the end screen). It would be better to bring powertech tanks/juggernaught tanks up a slight notch (slight) than "nerf the entire assassin class." Guess what? Assassins aren't touched in 1.2 and juggs are buffed, and I don't know about powertech because I didn't look. The two things the tank assassin has over the other 2 tanks that everyone exaggerates into oblivion? ---> The ability to run away and escape with cooldowns, and the ability to heal for more than other tanks (still not very much but strong in 1v1 where small ticks matter). That is it. Outside of those two things, other tanks perform better in every way. Those are the only two advantages assassins have over other tanks. And before "what about force pull" juggernauts have intercede and powertechs have grapple so deal with it. And also before "but they can do 100000000 damage as a tank" no they can't their damage is very weak in single target, and at the low end in AoE. KC's opener from stealth hits harder than Infiltrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLakers Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 KC's opener from stealth hits harder than Infiltrations. More than a few tank Shadow/Sins on my server that will out damage well -geared Infiltration specs 9 games out 10. It's silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herring Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 lol Amk its jakelan KC shadows are so ****in op. Everyone on our server is running them now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeiele Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Way to many post about nerf this and that...nerf grav round (rly?) nerf ops nerf healers nerf sages....how about we start buffing things instead of nerfing and yes! There are some L2p issues on these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMike Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) Way to many post about nerf this and that...nerf grav round (rly?) nerf ops nerf healers nerf sages....how about we start buffing things instead of nerfing and yes! There are some L2p issues on these forums. Because buffing every class to Assassin/Marauder level would break the game. And yes, there are LOT of L2P issues in SWTOR, skill level is abbysmal. And unfortunately BW caters to terribads by producing "balancing lolpatch(es)" like 1.2 Its like they REALLY want all PvPers out of the game, and i must say, for now they are doing great job in that departement. Edited April 6, 2012 by GrandMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekeiele Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) Because buffing every class to Assassin/Marauder level would break the game. And yes, there are LOT of L2P issues in SWTOR, skill level is abbysmal. And unfortunately BW caters to terribads by producing "balancing lolpatch(es)" like 1.2 Its like they REALLY want all PvPers out of the game, and i must say, for now they are doing great job in that departement. I don't get it....this patch is going to nerf merc/Mando sage/sorc op/scoun Powertech/Vang because of nerf cries.. so what's left hmm sent/Mara Sin/shadow Now fill the boards with cries for nerfs...only classes left "un nerfed" Slinger/sniper so are they next? Edited April 6, 2012 by Zekeiele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redmarx Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Doesn't really matter any more. Game's dead because of 1.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neamhan Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I don't get it....this patch is going to nerf merc/Mando sage/sorc op/scoun Powertech/Vang because of nerf cries.. so what's left hmm sent/Mara Sin/shadow Now fill the boards with cries for nerfs...only classes left "un nerfed" Slinger/sniper so are they next? Actually, Assassins were nerfed months ago already. They and Operatives where the first classes nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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