Damage is up across the board. Aside from individual class changes, Expertise now gives more Damage vs. other players than it does reduction. My character at about 1100 expertise has a ~21% damage increase, but only a ~16.5% damage reduction.

Sometimes buffs can throw a class over the top. Sometimes (as much as most of us would deny it) it takes a few good players to start showing us what a class is actually capable of. This goes beyond numbers on paper or even the screenshots that others and myself have posted, especially when it comes to PvP. Arguments about survivability between tanks, for example, are actually moot because when it comes to PvP, all you have to do is be survivable enough to not be a primary focus target, survive until the objective is complete, survive until your healer returns, etc. etc., and the Tankasin is most assuredly survivable enough. Ultimately, the whole package that the Tankasin offers currently is over the top. It's just a little too good at everything with one spec. Even with reduced damage done while in Tank stance, you're still left with a really powerful class.

Lol. You haven't been keeping up have you? Every screenshot in this thread you've seen of Assassin's doing 700k damage 100k protection and 100k healing have been from the ones in Tank spec and Tank stance guarding another player.

But they aren't capable of putting out that kind of damage in tank spec and tank stance, thus, they are easier to kill. I mean if you really want to get technical about it, dps tanks with Taunt shouldn't do as much damage as pure dps classes either, in my opinion. But that's an entirely different argument.

And again, none of those players in those screenshots are in tank stance and able to guard another player. Now a class that can do that much damage AND guard someone? That's too much.

It's as sound as you saying their damage is fine. What ultimately matters is if they get nerfed or not. I bet they will.

The "opinionated whining" as you like to call it, because you can't have a civil discussion, is just as valid as your blind defense of the class. It's all opinion ultimately. Tankasin damage will eventually be adjusted. It's only a matter of time. Don't worry though, I'll be sure to bump this post whenever that day comes for you.

Bioware will determine what is too much. All I have to do is bring it to their attention.

Oh please. Your entire argument hinges on a single fluke screenshot. Dozens of screenshots of what Tankasins are capable of have been shown. Furthermore, that Jugg did zilch for healing (which matters because that adds to the survivability of the Tankasin), way less protection for 200k more damage in a fluke match.

The point is that being able to do DPS numbers as a Tank in Tank stance that can guard is imbalanced. Edit: Hmm, my quote disappeared.

It will be amazing when he does that same damage while guarding someone. Oh wait...he won't.

No, it's not tanking. It's dpsing while spamming Taunt. You're much easier to kill in that spec than in tank spec. Plus you need about double the protection and 4 times the healing to equal a tank spec Assassin.

Agreed.

I'm not sure why you or others are nitpicking the difference between Damage and DPS. Are you aware that if you hover over each players' damage on the scoreboard that it will give you their DPS which is just damage per time spent in the warzone? Thus, the player that did the most damage will always have the highest DPS in the warzone.

Good work. Now respec to Tank, switch over to tank stance, and put guard someone then come back and show us how much damage you can do.

The OP version actually lasts 10 seconds, whereas, the Assassin version lasts 8. It is possible to sleep someone as an OP and cap a turret or plant a bomb provided their CC break is down.

http://szapas.imgur.com/all/ That was posted earlier in the thread. It sounds like you don't know how to play the class yet. The name of the game currently is 3 Tankasins guarding 3 healers (2 of them Merc healers.) Fill the last 2 spots with a Marauder and a Rage specced Juggernaut. Merc/Commando is the absolute hardest healer to kill while under Guard. In fact, it's nigh impossible, and should you actually kill him it will have taken you so long that you won't get anything remotely done Objective wise in the Warzone, i.e plant bombs, cap turrets, etc. Tankasins do some of the best DAMAGE in the game while Guarding, Taunting, and generally just being as survivable as a Tank normally would. No other Tank can pull these numbers while being TANK spec and in TANK stance. A Rage specced Juggernaut brings more utility and decent damage and burst while still being able to Taunt. Finally, the Marauder brings superb sustained damage and the heal debuff for trained targets. It seems people are severely underestimating the importance of Guard and Taunt. Maybe it's because your server just hasn't caught on yet, who knows, but soon after 1.2 hits I suspect people will start to really see the imbalance setups like that cause. With that many tanks, you can expect your whole team to be covered in Taunts. In essence, your whole team is doing 30% less damage for a good portion of the game. Coupled with Guards, good luck killing anything. By the time you've reached the 'critical mass' number of people on a single target to train it down, you won't have enough to cover the other healers to prevent them from keeping the trained target alive anyway. You'll notice that in that setup, which I've faced many times I assure you, there's only 1 non tank and non healer. Tankasins just do way too much damage to justify losing guard and taunt for a true DPS class. Unless your own team brings a similar setup with as many Guards, you won't last long. So the only recourse is to run a very similar setup which results in a match where nobody dies. Even after the Tankasin nerf comes barreling down upon them, it still won't fix the underlying problem that Taunt is too critical of an ability to not have on your team. It's not an easy fix because you want Tank classes in DPS specs to be able to do just that - dps, but not only can they do similar numbers as actual DPS classes, they bring the much critical taunt as well.

No, Rage specced Juggernauts don't dps in Tank stance, they dps in Shii-cho form. If they are Rage specced but in Tank stance they are severely limiting their rage generation which lowers their dps significantly. Because they aren't in tank stance, they can't guard. The short and sweet of it is: TANK SPEC Assassins in TANK STANCE do too much DAMAGE. Lower the Darkness spec's damage output and you'll be left with a tank that still has some of the highest utility in the game.

As a DPS Scoundrel, asking one to sit in the end zone and wait for a pass is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The primary reason for this is Bioware's implementation of the medal system. In 1.2 they are moving even further toward using medals earned in Warzones as the determing factor in all the rewards you receive from PvP. More medals = more Valor, more commendations etc etc. even to the point that medals are almost more important than winning the actual match. Sitting in the end zone in stealth waiting for a pass that may or may not come gets you absolutely zero rewards. Even scoring the ball gets you zip. Now if doing this got me every medal I needed to get full rewards I'd sit there all day, but that's not the case. Ops/Scoundrels bring exactly ZERO to a huttball match that another class can't provide while ALSO bringing more utility in the form of knockbacks, pulls, speed, etc.

This is correct. Due to the nature of Expertise, you will see an increase in the magnitude of healing somewhere around the 10-15% range. The diminishing returns are being lowered and gear will have increased amounts of Expertise. Now, I know what you're saying. "But wait, that means damage will go up too!!" Wrong. Expertise increases damage, but it also mitigates it. Thus, aside from direct changes to class abilities, damage in 1.2 will remain relatively the same as it is now, but healing will continue to increase for as long as characters are able to acquire more expertise. Sooner or later, something has to give. Healing is quite strong as it currently stands.

It absolutely matters whether the damage is done in tank spec. The Rage specced Juggernaut is much easier to kill than the Darkness specced Assassin. Furthermore, the Rage specced Juggernaut is incapable of guarding a teammate because he's in Shii-cho form instead of Soresu. As for your screenshot, others have already covered why that is irrelevant to the discussion aside from tank/dps spec difference.

Screenshot or you're talking out of your ***. A Juggernaut in TANK spec will never reach that kind of damage. If he was DPS spec, then good for him. The issue is a Tank spec doing this damage, learn to read.

Good try, but you're still not seeing the point. First of all, as the guy above me pointed out, that damage is poor especially if you were trying to "pad" your damage. Furthermore, you have 0 protection and 31 healing. Assassins can do 600K dmg, 100K protection, and 80K healing (self healing) in a Tank spec. Juggs and Powertechs don't achieve those kinds of damage numbers in their TANK specs. The ones you see doing those numbers are in dps specs with lower survivability than their tank counterparts. They can't Guard because they don't use tank stance in dps spec, and they have zip in the form of self healing.

I honestly don't believe tanks have an execute for "aggro reasons". If that were the case then all they have to do is lower the damage it does in tank stance but up its threat. In other games, tanks can't use their execute in tank stance because, 'gasp', they're not supposed to put up dps class numbers.

And I'm telling you as someone who plays against him he most certainly does not ignore objectives or not help his team. He's not padding anything. You don't think putting up numbers like that can help his team win? Are you really going to look at 3-4 screenshots of stats and then jump to the conclusion that he's done nothing to help his team? You're missing the countless other warzones where he sits and defends a turret in Alderaan for his team. You're missing the warzones where he sits in front of a door in Voidstar to prevent a plant by himself as long as possible (which is pretty long considering how resilient the class is). Assassins are also one of the top Ball runners in Huttball (second only to Juggernauts in my opinion) especially as tank spec. The fact remains that while helping its team, when it's time to throw down some damage the class is top notch at doing it. When it's time to defend a healer and throw down taunts and CC, the class is top notch at doing it. And when it's time to survive and delay the opponent, the class is top notch at doing it. They just do everything a little too well with one spec.