April Fools! Why Bioware should take mini-games seriously.

[indelible]

Bioware's April Fools went down in some quarters pretty badly (as apparently some of you thought they were serious). Despite the hilarity however, the April Fools gag does highlight one thing about Star Wars The Old Republic that - to me - represents a fundamental lack of inventivness and forward thinking - the lack of mini-games.

 

MMOs over the last decade have pandered to a single philosophy of game design: level, raid, gear up, repeat. From World of Warcraft to Rift the primary focus of ALL MMOs has been to cater to a gameplay dynamic that has dominated the "scene" - even in niche titles - for over a decade, with little focus on anything outside of that "tried and true" formula.

 

Now I'm sure you've all heard of Mysts of Panderia. Anyone who knows me will simply know how I am loathed to drawing comparisons between SWTOR and WoW (little bit of sarcasm and irony there for you), but MoP is doing one thing that I think is GOOD for the genre: it's placing an emphasis on mini-games, and scenarios. Whether you are fan of the pet battle system (or Pokemon WoW Edition, as we've come to know it), you can quite clearly see that Blizzard are moving to diversify their content offerings in MoP. Cataclysm was very much a raid and PvP focused expansion, offering a refined take on a formula that Blizzard have been using with WoWs inception. That went down well (and more sarcasm there for you). With MoP Blizzard are taking away the emphasis on raiding. Could it be because the market as a whole has exhausted the formular? I wouldn't go that far, but I would argue that it's coming close.

 

Back in the early days of development, the idea of mini-games was a hot topic on the forum. From Paazaak to Swoop Racing, it was clear that a not-insignificant section of the community - including myself - wanted something different with SWTOR to fuel our MMO game time. Sadly the only "mini-game" to make it to release was Space Combat (a lacklustre implementation, at best, and large seen as wasted development efforts and an attempt to pander to a rather violent and vocal group on the pre-launch boards). It's a shame because Space Combat COULD have been something unique, something interesting, to set the tone for more mini games in the future. Instead it was an abysmal let down, one that very few players partake in (and something that patch 1.2 hasn't actually fixed... which is surprising considering there were promises of changes not a handful of months ago).

 

Now the more die-hard MMOers amongst you will probably want to lynch me for suggesting that an MMO should cater to non-combat based progression, offering competition and gear progression through avenues that include indirect sportsmanship (the fastest time on a particular swoop course, for example). You may even cry havoc at the idea that gear could be won or lost from the comfort of a pazaak board in a cantina. I would ask, quite simply, whether your aversion to this idea is because it's genuinely a bad idea, something that you wouldn't enjoy, or because you fear the unknown? In these quarters your "expertise" at raiding and killing other players would have no place. So perhaps your dislike of other content offerings are not because they "suck" but because of a combination of elitism, fear of the unknown and - quite simply - because you don't know any different.

 

And whilst I consider the merits of the idea somewhat academically, Bioware are content to make flippant and largely dismissive remarks about, "thinking about," offering such content. With as large a team as they have, such content should be put to a dedicated group, perhaps, and tested, rather than suggesting that the current formula is enough. It isn't. WoWs subscription loss has very little to do with SWTOR I imagine, and more to do with an overall fatigue with the established jive. So maybe, just maybe, exploring new avenues would be a GOOD idea in the long run?

 

I'm not suggesting we do away with raids or PvP. That would be foolish. I'm just saying there's room for peripheral content of equal import. There's room for Swoop Racing. There's room for Pazaak. There's room for Womp Rat hunting. There's room for a whole wealth of additional content. And if it IS coming, I and many others really do look forward to it.

 

./endrant

Edited April 3, 2012 by indelible

[Azzras]

I don't think the OP's post was a rant at all.

 

I would also like to see minigames in SWTOR.

 

The trooper has one on the starting world. Sadly, you can only do it once.

 

 

Place bets on people running through a mine field and surviving. Optionally, you can run the event yourself. I WANT TO DO THIS MORE!!!

 

 

Edit:

OP proves me wrong latter about rant.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Azzras

[TheBBP]

This is assuming that they are not taking minigames seriously.

[shaggscoob]

I don't really like racing (never could stand it in KOTOR, it drove me crazy), but I really do like pazaak. It was a great time waster and was also great for earning credits.

[indelible]

This is assuming that they are not taking minigames seriously.

 

Nothing they've said has suggested they are taking them seriously. Nothing they've done has either (*points at abandonment of Space Combat*).

 

To suggest that people should assume they ARE taking them seriously is utter madness. They haven't said, "they're coming," merely, "we'll consider it," which implies its not on their list of things to do in the short, mid or near-long term.

 

Tis best to assume they aren't until they say they are. Then the dicussion can shift to what sort of mini-games they should be adding.

[JerokTalram]

They need something like pazaak for the cantinas. The abiliy to sit on the chairs would be nice too. Stuff like this will make Cantinas the places to hangout on Planets.

[TheBBP]

Nothing they've said has suggested they are taking them seriously. Nothing they've done has either (*points at abandonment of Space Combat*).

 

To suggest that people should assume they ARE taking them seriously is utter madness. They haven't said, "they're coming," merely, "we'll consider it," which implies its not on their list of things to do in the short, mid or near-long term.

 

Tis best to assume they aren't until they say they are. Then the dicussion can shift to what sort of mini-games they should be adding.

 

Nothing they have said says that they don't take mini-games seriously. They have said many times over that Space Combat IS a minigame. Your opinion of it being "abandoned" is just an opinion.

Edited April 3, 2012 by TheBBP

[JerokTalram]

(*points at abandonment of Space Combat*).

What abandonment of Space Combat? You better provide a link.

[Cmdluke]

space combat has not been abandoned, they said they have big plans for the future of space combat coming in a future update. they never said anything about space combat expansion coming in 1.2.

[indelible]

What abandonment of Space Combat? You better provide a link.

 

The fact that all of the missions are the same three missions, just slight harder. The fact that they've added no new missions. The fact that 1.2 throws out some loose balance, and some slight graphical updates but no new content.

 

There's been no iteration on the formula they added at launch. Everything else is going through iteration and expansion; Space Combat isn't.

 

And yes, it is just an opinion; I never said it wasn't. And you're welcome to disagree with me. The post isn't about Space Combat however, and I won't be dragged into a trolly exchange on it

[Dibdabs]

I don't really like racing (never could stand it in KOTOR, it drove me crazy), but I really do like pazaak. It was a great time waster and was also great for earning credits.

It would be nice if the Smuggler somehow actually got to smuggle and make a profit while doing so, via some sort of smuggling minigame.

[TheBBP]

The fact that all of the missions are the same three missions, just slight harder. The fact that they've added no new missions. The fact that 1.2 throws out some loose balance, and some slight graphical updates but no new content.

 

There's been no iteration on the formula they added at launch. Everything else is going through iteration and expansion; Space Combat isn't.

 

And yes, it is just an opinion; I never said it wasn't. And you're welcome to disagree with me. The post isn't about Space Combat however, and I won't be dragged into a trolly exchange on it

 

You are the one who began the "trolly exchange" on Space Combat by asserting that it was abandoned. All of your points above are based on nothing but bitter speculation.

[Cmdluke]

the post is about mini-games. space combat is a mini-game and therefore a viable topic of discussion in this post.

 

you can see this link where they mention they are continuing to work on space combat.

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/what%E2%80%99s-next-old-republic

 

quoted from the article:

Space Combat – We will continue to add missions to the space game. We also have a special project going on right now that will expand space gameplay in a significant way... for now the details will have to remain under wraps.

 

see they never specifically mention when its coming, just that they are working on it.

[Azzras]

It would be nice if the Smuggler somehow actually got to smuggle and make a profit while doing so, via some sort of smuggling minigame.

 

While it would be neat, it would also leave a lot of other classes out. The QQ would be glorious.

 

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

I still can not believe how they could make a mini game out of something as important as space combat. BW decisions... too many facepalms during the game, so I stopped counting.

[indelible]

While it would be neat, it would also leave a lot of other classes out. The QQ would be glorious.

 

 

There's other ways of catering to other classes.

 

Bounty Hunters could pick up Bounties. Troopers could pick up Deployment Orders.

 

Sorcerers and Warriors could have to search for artifcats and Sith Objects of Power. Same for the Jedi classes.

 

Smugglers could Smuggle, Agents could... smuggle...? >.>

 

------------------------------------------

 

This thread is about mini-games as a whole, NOT JUST Space Combat. To suggest that we should just talk about Space Combat is narrow minded, to be honest. I dislike it, it's not being iterated on in 1.2, they've made vague comments about its future (if you study marketting like I have, you'd understand what I mean ), and it's one example of a mini-game.

 

I won't discuss it beyond expressing my opinions. Continue to argue amongst yourselves if you want though

Edited April 3, 2012 by indelible

[shaggscoob]

It would be nice if the Smuggler somehow actually got to smuggle and make a profit while doing so, via some sort of smuggling minigame.

 

as a smuggler, I agree

 

Although, if they did that, they'd have to add similar games for the other classes and balance them, blah blah blah.

[shaggscoob]

I still can not believe how they could make a mini game out of something as important as space combat. BW decisions... too many facepalms during the game, so I stopped counting.

 

I guess I don't see how it should be any more important than it is? Just because you played Galaxies for FAR TOO LONG? (even though space combat was a glitch fest in that game as well, in addition to having NO EFFECT on the ground game, either)

[juanni]

This thread is new and exciting...

 

The devs have said (I think at the Guild Summit) that mini-games are something they will do when they need to "make a big splash".

[Cmdluke]

There's other ways of catering to other classes.

 

Bounty Hunters could pick up Bounties. Troopers could pick up Deployment Orders.

 

Sorcerers and Warriors could have to search for artifcats and Sith Objects of Power. Same for the Jedi classes.

 

Smugglers could Smuggle, Agents could... smuggle...? >.>

 

------------------------------------------

 

This thread is about mini-games as a whole, NOT JUST Space Combat. To suggest that we should just talk about Space Combat is narrow minded, to be honest. I dislike it, it's not being iterated on in 1.2, they've made vague comments about its future (if you study marketting like I have, you'd understand what I mean ), and it's one example of a mini-game.

 

I won't discuss it beyond expressing my opinions. Continue to argue amongst yourselves if you want though

Your dismissal of Bioware's statements regarding the expansion of space combat rather discredit you a bit. You come off as just hearing what you want form their statements, and not taking them for what they are worth. oh, and I work in marketing too so I know how it works.

 

That said, back on topic.

 

I'm all for mini-games, and I'd love to see some pazaak, swoop racing, even djerak.

 

class specific mini-games would be great fun as well, but I think they would need to be more varied than just go here, pick up orders/artifacts/bounties/etc.

 

Imagine JK's have lightsaber combat training exercises that they can partake in, JC's can assist in LA Noire style diplomacy games, TR's have to lead a tactical battle scenario, BH's hunt down a bounty in a crowded area Assassin's Creed style, SI's have to interrogate a prisoner, SW's practice focusing their rage and power on prisoners, IA's need to slice a computer to recover some intel, and SM's, well, smuggle.

 

Each class-specific mini-game could be unlocked via the legacy system so you can have access to all of them on your various characters.

[oslek]

I agree with those saying we need mini games. Not everyone gets their jollys off on raiding or warzones. I remember mentioning class specific random missions way back before release and it was basically ignored along with every other point people made that is now being asked for.

[Kubernetic]

OP, clearly you haven't been paying attention. They have stated numerous times that they are interested in bringing mini-games and a more rounded experience to the game. Devs have their own ideas on the best things they'd like to see.

 

But these will take some time to add into the game.

[Lethality]

Bioware's April Fools went down in some quarters pretty badly (as apparently some of you thought they were serious). Despite the hilarity however, the April Fools gag does highlight one thing about Star Wars The Old Republic that - to me - represents a fundamental lack of inventivness and forward thinking - the lack of mini-games.

 

I don't think "mini-games" are the answer, per se... but I do think social, non-combat activities that get players out into the world with each other is the right thing to focus on. Mini games could be a part of that, but the overall goal should be alternate activities in the world that bring players together.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Lethality

[Achromatis]

I think they should still expand space combat >.>

 

Im never giving up hope for a Battlefront style space Warzone!

[kijthae]

bioware has better plans then pokemon i sense

Dont forget space combat and there is no reason it wont turn to a mini eve online at future.

Spaceships are your property. Its like owning a house at ultima online.It may turn to fully customizable ( inner decoration or bigger ships ) at future.There could be guild ships coming later.

No company is stupid enough to release all their ideas in a few months / years

Wow has reached its depth at fun/cosmetic content in 8 years.

West is fed up with wow so they are changing their scope from west to far east.

Therefore nothing amazes me at mist of pokemonia. I wont buy it.I'd like to try it free 1 year after its release but im sure it will be make me play itself only for 1 month just like cata .

Bliz is fed up with money.They simply dont care any balance issue but smaller companies provide creative things to players who cant find them on wow.

This is why ill keep my sub. to swtor.

Edited April 3, 2012 by kijthae