BucMan Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 It is already stated Mace would of lost. Sidious even though he lost the dual to Mace he easly would shatter his defenses with his lightening. Sidious tried, he got his face burnt trying it. With no Anakin, Mace kills Palpy and the rest is history.(or in the case of the original trilogy, rewritten history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Sidious tried, he got his face burnt trying it. With no Anakin, Mace kills Palpy and the rest is history.(or in the case of the original trilogy, rewritten history) No Sidious would have killed him anyway, even if Anakin wasn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 It is already stated Mace would of lost. Sidious even though he lost the dual to Mace he easly would shatter his defenses with his lightening. He wouldnt have easily shattered his defences at all. With confirmation from Lucas in the ROTS commentary that Sidious was almost pushed over the limit from all his exertion "These close up shots where Palpatine is getting the force lightning reflected back and he’s getting zapped, and the strain of all this exertion is what’s transforming him into the Emperor that we see later in Return of the Jedi..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 He wouldnt have easily shattered his defences at all. With confirmation from Lucas in the ROTS commentary that Sidious was almost pushed over the limit from all his exertion "These close up shots where Palpatine is getting the force lightning reflected back and he’s getting zapped, and the strain of all this exertion is what’s transforming him into the Emperor that we see later in Return of the Jedi..." That is all well and good, but it simply does not contradict what we know from the RotS novel, which clearly states Windu was losing his grip on his lightsaber, which itself, despite being anj Electrum based Lightsaber, was bending under the strain, Windu would have lost the battle despite winning the duel. The only variable I can think of that could have had a Jedi victory there would be Anakin coming to his senses and aligning with Windu, though even that might not have been enough to stop Sidious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P-Funk Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 That said, yes it was a horribly filmed scene and one reason I didn't like the prequel movies. Thats all I'm really asking for. Fact is that watching the entire scene and being asked to believe that he was playing possom or was truly wtfbbqpwn epic just doesn't add up. It doesn't FEEL true. This is something that goes deeper than conscious thinking. Its part of the unconscious being allowed to suspend its disbelief. If it looks like it could be true then we can accept it when we're told or presented it as a fact. All I saw was a weak Sith getting lucky on #1 and #2 and getting his butt kicked by Mace. I didn't feel like he could have whooped Mace at any moment. I also don't buy the whole "He planned Annakin showing up" stuff. In RotJ he was standing right next to Vader and couldn't tell that Vader was about to turn on him. RIGHT NEXT TO HIM! But somehow years earlier he could just go on hope that Annakin would show up? Okay, maybe he could have dictated the flow of the duel with Mace to kick his butt, but I still firmly believe in the idea of ultimate power can't overcome all disadvantages. Basically I see it as Palpy allowed himself to be put in a bad position to make it so that Annakin would kill Mace or wound him in some kind of trick to make the Jedi look evil. The problem is that Mace is good enough that if he has someone even as powerful as Palpy on the mat he could probably waste him. Did Palpy intend to turn his own face into shrivelled scars? Seems a bit unlikely to me. It looked like a properly desperate act. Sith or not, why would anybody want to look like that? Only thing that served was to explain why the Emperor looks like he does in the original movies, and thats where I come to my main issues of believability in the whole new trilogy, not just this scene or this movie. I feel like so much of it was written to tie in with all these little facts we know from the original movies that I can't accept it was organic to the story. It just feels like "Oh this would be neat, and it'll make all the fans go 'ooooooh THATS how it happened'". That stuff makes me roll my eyes, and by the time they recentre the scene has moved on to annoy me again with another separate '***' moment. Thats a big part of why I have so much trouble buying into the entire new trilogy. I wanted so badly to love it. I watched all these bad movies over and over even feeling unhappy with them trying to capture that feeling. It never came. I can't get over this stuff. And btw, yes I read, I love EU novels. I just can't use the novelization of Ep 3. to make me enjoy this any bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Thats all I'm really asking for. Fact is that watching the entire scene and being asked to believe that he was playing possom or was truly wtfbbqpwn epic just doesn't add up. It doesn't FEEL true. This is something that goes deeper than conscious thinking. Its part of the unconscious being allowed to suspend its disbelief. If it looks like it could be true then we can accept it when we're told or presented it as a fact. All I saw was a weak Sith getting lucky on #1 and #2 and getting his butt kicked by Mace. I didn't feel like he could have whooped Mace at any moment. I also don't buy the whole "He planned Annakin showing up" stuff. In RotJ he was standing right next to Vader and couldn't tell that Vader was about to turn on him. RIGHT NEXT TO HIM! But somehow years earlier he could just go on hope that Annakin would show up? Okay, maybe he could have dictated the flow of the duel with Mace to kick his butt, but I still firmly believe in the idea of ultimate power can't overcome all disadvantages. Basically I see it as Palpy allowed himself to be put in a bad position to make it so that Annakin would kill Mace or wound him in some kind of trick to make the Jedi look evil. The problem is that Mace is good enough that if he has someone even as powerful as Palpy on the mat he could probably waste him. Did Palpy intend to turn his own face into shrivelled scars? Seems a bit unlikely to me. It looked like a properly desperate act. Sith or not, why would anybody want to look like that? Only thing that served was to explain why the Emperor looks like he does in the original movies, and thats where I come to my main issues of believability in the whole new trilogy, not just this scene or this movie. I feel like so much of it was written to tie in with all these little facts we know from the original movies that I can't accept it was organic to the story. It just feels like "Oh this would be neat, and it'll make all the fans go 'ooooooh THATS how it happened'". That stuff makes me roll my eyes, and by the time they recentre the scene has moved on to annoy me again with another separate '***' moment. Thats a big part of why I have so much trouble buying into the entire new trilogy. I wanted so badly to love it. I watched all these bad movies over and over even feeling unhappy with them trying to capture that feeling. It never came. I can't get over this stuff. And btw, yes I read, I love EU novels. I just can't use the novelization of Ep 3. to make me enjoy this any bit more. I actually read the whole thing in the book, and it showed how the movie scene should have been. Windu was every bit as quick as Palpatine. Every counter and attack perfectly made. They were pretty much equals in skill. If it weren't for Palpatine's plot armor, it really could have gone either way once Anakin got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decembrist Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I see the plot hole in a group of 4 jedi masters with supposedly great judgement and intuition deciding to take on the sith leader by themselves. 10 jedi masters and a squad of troopers would have made more sense and certainly would prevent having the Republic's fate decided by an unstable young jedi with nightmares and a ton of ego issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) I see the plot hole in a group of 4 jedi masters with supposedly great judgement and intuition deciding to take on the sith leader by themselves. 10 jedi masters and a squad of troopers would have made more sense and certainly would prevent having the Republic's fate decided by an unstable young jedi with nightmares and a ton of ego issues. It still wouldn't have mattered...ok but lets bring that theory into play and see how it would go down. Mace, Kit, Saesee, and Agen along with 6 other jedi masters and a squad of clone troopers comes into the room. Sidious, already having forseen this has prepared himself the conversation goes on and then Palpatine says to the clones"execute order 66". The clones turn on the jedi, taking them by surprise killing them as they turn their attention away from Sidious he leaps to the group using force speed and kills the remaining jedi masters as they were distraction by the clones. Or Sidious unleashes a force lighting barrage killing all the jedi masters, who couldn't hold(or block) the lighting and frying the clone troopers before fighting Mace and it turns out just as it was in the movies. Edited April 16, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinron Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 They all under estimated the power of the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliskai Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Windu technically defeat Palpatine? it was Anakin interrupting the fight that was accountable for Windu's defeat, if Anakin didn't intervene its safe to say Windu would have defeated Palpatine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Windu technically defeat Palpatine? it was Anakin interrupting the fight that was accountable for Windu's defeat, if Anakin didn't intervene its safe to say Windu would have defeated Palpatine? Mace won the lightsaber duel, after that it all went downhill for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishRifle Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Let me put it to you this way. Way back when George Bush was running for office in 2004 there was this guy on the Democrats' side. I forget his name but this was a famous moment. He was vying for the Democratic nomination. At some rally he was yelling and whooping and when people saw it on TV he looked like an idiot. He lost based on that fact alone. Now, the true story is that it was insanely loud in that room, that his demeanor was perfectly normal for the atmosphere, but that the microphone was sound cancelling so all you heard was him screaming in what was apparently a quiet room. Did that truth change anything? Nope. All people remember is what they saw. They saw some crazy Democrat screaming like an idiot. The truth and what people's impression were completely alien to one another. . ...and David Chapelle made one of the funniest skits ever about this. BYah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqBz48BVMjA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonSM Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I see the plot hole in a group of 4 jedi masters with supposedly great judgement and intuition deciding to take on the sith leader by themselves. 10 jedi masters and a squad of troopers would have made more sense and certainly would prevent having the Republic's fate decided by an unstable young jedi with nightmares and a ton of ego issues. He was the only Sith Alive. Seems like a perfect time to kill him before he gets Followers. Yoda was on Kashyyk. No time to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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