Pvp Triple teaming targets.

[irdc]

All the premade QQs.

 

I'm sorry, if you are really a competitive PvPer or a hardcore PvPer then more than likely you are not a loner and you do premade. It's how it works. PuGs are like herding cats. Why put yourself through the stress when you can run a premade with like minded and skillful individuals?

 

That is how WoW has conditioned people.

 

Personally, I find many premades and the use of voice to be a crutch. I find it often leads to BAD pvp'ers because they never develop many of the skills that are necessary in order to be a truly good PVPer.

 

Then again, I'm one of those semi-loner PVPers. I group with other people here and there. But, to be honest, the last thing I want to hear when I'm in the zone is someone on vent whining about something useless.

Edited April 2, 2012 by irdc

[Cebby]

it is not unfair.

 

it is the way team games are played.

 

solo pvp is the hardest game to play, you get wat u get in the end.

 

it is an f'in joke that peopel unsub over losing.. even werse that they blame guilds for bringing their best game.

 

a joke.

[CharterMonkKent]

Yea, that will be the key. How long it waits to become lax on the queuing requirements. I'm sure it won't be perfect when it starts, but I like where it's heading.

 

As long as that system doesn't give up trying to find another premade when it can't find one in a relatively short amount of time will it be a worthwhile system.

 

It should put premade vs premade no matter how long it takes. The crying will be fierce because of long queue times (most people play solo), but I'm okay with that.

[Angel_of_Cain]

I get jumped by 3 and sometimes 4 at once. it sucks, but i try to stay alive as long as possible (a few seconds), because while those 3 are on me, 3 less are trying to take objectives. Teams I have been on have won Void Star and Alderaan because of this. "please look at me and kill me while my teammate behind you is taking the turret or planting the bomb." So let the 3v1 happen, as long as they are playing on the other team, giving my team a chance to take the objectives:D

[irdc]

I'm sorry. You just said lone wolfing in a PuG is skill. What skill is that? A test in mental endurance?

 

Any "lone wolf" that enters a warzone should make the assumption that

 

1) They will not put on guard

2) They will not receive heals

3) No one will come to their rescue

 

This generates a completely different skill-set than someone who groups up with a balanced premade group on vent.

 

The interesting thing to note, though, is that it is much easier to go from lone wolf to premades than it is from premades to lone wolf.

[DarkDruidSS]

That is how WoW has conditioned people.

 

Personally, I find many premades and the use of voice to be a crutch. I find it often leads to BAD pvp'ers because they never develop many of the skills that are necessary in order to be a truly good PVPer.

 

Then again, I'm one of those semi-loner PVPers. I group with other people here and there. But, to be honest, the last thing I want to hear when I'm in the zone is someone on vent whining about something useless.

 

Hate to break it to you, but "premades" have been around longer than WoW has. You can view it as a crutch if you want, but in a game that is not designed around 1v1 balance then playing is a team is how it was MEANT to be.

 

Good luck on your solo venture though. It's a tough road and one that I am not willing to endure if I have to anymore.

[MashTactics]

It's not unfair in any way.

 

In fact, it's so easy, a caveman could do it.

[stendarrs]

I don't think premades are unfair, perhaps frustrating, but it's just smart to team up. However, if I can occupy 3 people for several seconds on Voidstar while my team plants a bomb or CW for a cap, then I would say that I did what the team needed me to do. This actually happend on CW, myself and stealth capped a turret defended by 3 guys. Stealth ran around the side, I ran up the middle and they saw a free kill so I kited them away from the turret while my stealth ally took the turret. We dropped in reinforcements and won the match. So, what's more frustrating, dying from a 3v1, or running around 3v1'ing everyone to rack up kills and then losing the match? I'm not saying this is what's happening to TC, but 3v1 kill farming against a good team will not win the match.

[DarkDruidSS]

Any "lone wolf" that enters a warzone should make the assumption that

 

1) They will not put on guard

2) They will not receive heals

3) No one will come to their rescue

 

This generates a completely different skill-set than someone who groups up with a balanced premade group on vent.

 

The interesting thing to note, though, is that it is much easier to go from lone wolf to premades than it is from premades to lone wolf.

 

I do agree with this to a point. There is value in solo queueing to keep sharp. The problem is that not everyone you PuG with is on the same page and can ruin your experience no matter how well you personally contribute to the match. Just knowing that you did all that you could do and you still lost because the other 7 people wanted to play their own games on the side lines is depressing.

[RahlLegacy]

Wow are you dilusional op

You run with 3 people and focus fire on people and you think thats skill? Thats just sad

Premades are no skill games

It doesnt take a genius to put together 8 players throw them on vent and dominate

 

Winning when you dont know what the other 7 people can even do and adjusting your game to be successful with what you have is skill

 

rolling pugs in a premade is laughable

 

3 people on vent coordinating in a pug match is just really really sad

 

But hey you get your wish in 1.2 you can hide behind your guild and succeed

 

I have to agree, most premades lead to the absence of skill because you come up with 1 strategy and then gank people. Huttball is the worst of all. Its "Hey Billy I got the ball, are you stealthed at their goal line? Yeah? Okay i'm going to drop down in the pit and throw it to you when you unstealth." Score, rinse, repeat. No skill.

[customkb]

Everyone keeps calling people who gank bad or not having skill. Are you stupid? Now, does it require faster reflexes or better hand eye coordination to gank? No. Obviously not. It requires about as much skill as playing a game where all you do is /target and spam 1, 2, 3 (i.e. what you're playing if you couldn't figure that one out). MMO PvP isn't hard, all it takes is team coodination, or in other words GANKING. Ganking is about the only thing to measure skill in this MMO PvP. If you're intelligent enough to gank successfully, then you're good and can work in a team to win matches. Being able to 1v1 or do well in solo Que has more to do with your class or gear being better and luck. Winning solo Que matches is basically luck. So, stop acting like this stuff is some super measure of you being awesome and face the FACT that it isn't hard and the only skill you need is being able to work in a team.

[Rehneu]

Wait..only triple teaming? I tend to get 4 or more on me at a time and I am a non-healing class.

 

Triple would be a welcome change for me. lol

[Ethurian]

The interesting thing to note, though, is that it is much easier to go from lone wolf to premades than it is from premades to lone wolf.

 

Self-reliance is something learned through Trial & Error and experience. From my days in LOTRO, there were people we would call "raid babies". Basically all they did was group up to have the superiority in numbers. This fostered an environment fit for breeding weak individual player-skills. When you'd find one of these raid babies alone, you'd pretty much just go to town on them without recourse. LOTRO also had a "Raid Target Assist". Raid leaders would either select themselves, or someone else as the target assist and the person's target would be visible via the UI to everyone in the raid. It made focus firing not "Hit this person" but rather "just keep clicking this box". It wasn't skillful. The people who were good solo, were good grouped - except sometimes you'd run into the issue of people who couldn't maintain the consistency of staying "chained" to group play. The urge to react and maneuver whenever and however they saw fit too overpowering to be product to the group. It's a bit of a double edged sword.

 

The fact is, organized group vs group will boil down to skill and group composition.

 

An organized group vs unorganized individuals grouped together, will not be a demanding task for the organized group. And shouldn't be treated as such. Communication even on a basic level is already an overwhelming advantage.

 

Solo queue versus solo queue is a toss up. Your group composition and individual teammates will make a huge difference. It is possible in some ways to "solo the enemy team" in terms of achieving objectives - but still not reliable. For example, most solo players only think about themselves - like wolves, independently operating in hunting. They are only thinking about who they can kill without getting killed. Like in huttball when no one on your team runs to the ball. Every one runs around the parameter staring at the ball. You'll see a lot of "someone else will---" mentality in solo queues.

 

"Oh that door on voidstar is undefended? Someone else will go and defend it, I'll go where everyone else is fighting atm"

 

"Oh huttball? Someone will grab the ball. I know it."

 

".. oh look the snow turret is undefended. Someone will go there. [two minutes later] **** NOOBS y U NO D'FEND TURRET!"

 

That's the biggest enemy in any solo queue, "someone else". It's actually amazing really. "Someone else will guard the ball carrier, I'm going to kill this healer away from the fight. Oh the ball carrier died, time to kill the new ball carrier! I GOT THE BALL? NO!! PASS PASS! Here 20% health sorc take the ball, you HAVE ZE BUBBLE!"

 

When people focus and handle business especially with a sense of selflessness that's when you win games.

[Nytak]

I've experience a lot of those 3 vs 1's lately, to the point where I'm starting to think that I've made a name for myself and people are focusing me on purpose. Yes, I might have shouted "I'm not the healer, you bastards" out loud while playing. Hell, earlier today I was constantly focused by two operatives and a tracer spammer, I'm not kidding when I say that I died in less than one second one of those times.

 

It is frustrating but at the same time I'm occupying three enemy players, assuming that I don't instantly die, which is good for my team. The problem with it is that in a crowd or with other enemies semi-close it's impossible to control the attackers in the current tab-system. Often times when I'm trying to CC one and stun another before I run off I will end up targeting a player 30 ft away instead and by the time I've found the right player I'm dead.

 

Just this weekend I had three operatives render me useless for 4 warzones in a row.. Not sure if I made them mad, maybe they just hate commandos, maybe I made a name for myself.. But yeah, frustrating as all heck. I made a game out of it and tried to see what the quickest time they could take me from 100% to dead.. 2.5 seconds BTW.

 

Such is pvp. Some days you get imps... Some days imps get you.

[irdc]

Hate to break it to you, but "premades" have been around longer than WoW has.

 

Not really. WoW was the first commercial MMORPG (non-mud) to have instanced battlegrounds. And that was in 2004/2005. Before that, PvP was largely relegated to games such as DAoC which was RvRvR.

 

A premade group of 8 is more effective in an 8v8 than in a 75 v 75 which happened in DAoC a lot.

 

There were other games before DAoC, of course. But at the time, bandwidth was a lot smaller and hardly anyone was able to use Team Speak or Vent because of it.

 

 

You can view it as a crutch if you want, but in a game that is not designed around 1v1 balance then playing is a team is how it was MEANT to be.

 

You imply that a lone-wolf person doesn't know how to work on a team. That simply is not the case. Lone wolf players can be some of the best team mates around because many have an intricate knowledge of the game that they have developed on their own.

 

Speaking mathematically, a solo player will have more opportunities to play than someone who only queues with their guild mates, unless their guild mates are on all the time. In theory, this will make the lone wolf player better over time.

 

Good luck on your solo venture though. It's a tough road and one that I am not willing to endure if I have to anymore.

 

Thanks. And good luck to you in yours.

Edited April 2, 2012 by irdc

[DarkDruidSS]

Not really. WoW was the first commercial MMORPG (non-mud) to have instanced battlegrounds. And that was in 2004/2005. Before that, PvP was largely relegated to games such as DAoC which was RvRvR.

 

A premade group of 8 is more effective in an 8v8 than in a 75 v 75 which happened in DAoC a lot.

 

There were other games before DAoC, of course. But at the time, bandwidth was a lot smaller and hardly anyone was able to use Team Speak or Vent because of it.

 

You imply that a lone-wolf person doesn't know how to work on a team. That simply is not the case. Lone wolf players can be some of the best team mates around because many have an intricate knowledge of the game that they have developed on their own.

 

Speaking mathematically, a solo player will have more opportunities to play than someone who only queues with their guild mates, unless their guild mates are on all the time. In theory, this will make the lone wolf player better over time.

 

Thanks. And good luck to you in yours.

 

I "premade" in EQ2 open world on Vent before WoW had battlegrounds.

 

In my other post I stated that a lone wolf CAN do great, but it doesn't mean you will win.

 

Lone Wolfers aren't going to inheretly get better by lone wolfing. You have to want to get better to succeed and learning how to play in a cohessive team is just as difficult. Playing with a dedicated PvP group you can also learn your weaknesses. It's not all about a VoIP crutch and 1 type of player being superior to the other. I never claimed all soloers were terrible.

Edited April 2, 2012 by DarkDruidSS

[Fredcat]

That's not unfair, focus fire is the way group PVP is supposed to be done. You should almost never be 1v1 in a warzone unless you are the only one stuck guarding a node. Peoples lack of understanding this is what annoys me about all the QQ posts about gear advantage or balance.

 

You need a lot of DPS to stop a Huttball carrier against any team that knows what they are doing, because they are going to be guarded and healed. You have to burn people down fast to plant a bomb on Voidstar or to cap the guns on Alderaan. All three warzones require focus fire and the team that does it better wins, simple as that.

 

PUGs can do this too without vent, if the ops leader is smart enough to mark the healers or any high risk players and tell the team to focus on them.

 

Oh, and pre mades were around long before WOW. AC, EQ, AO, SWG, EQ2 all had them, but they were just called groups and PVP happened in the open world. All WOW did was invent instanced PVP, which has ruined the world PVP in games ever since.

[Ivonichke]

If myself and a couple friends/or guildies make a group and queue up for some warzones, and then want to talk to each other in vent , because typing is lame. Then proceed to communicate with each other whilst in said warzones, and we end up all focusing dps on the same target then burn it down and move on to the next and so it continues, 3vs1 over and over. hell, we might even kill the same person a dozen times or more in a row if he/she is a good player. or the ball runner or a threat, or we just dont like your name....

 

how is it unfair or biowares fault? there is sooo much QQ about pvp and getting ganked, calls to nerf this, that, whatever, but at its core its about people who know how to play and people who dont know how to play.

 

People who know how to play will use every tool available to them.

People who dont know how to play, blame others. its that easy.

 

Those who complain pvp is unfair, what do you think pvp ranked system coming in 1.2 iis going to do? Solo ranked WZ are going to show who knows how to play their characters and group ranked WZ are going to show who knows how to play in a team effectively. where are you going to fit in?

 

If you and your friends are out looking for 3v1 fights because you lack the ability/coordination to handle 3v3 or even 3v5 odds, I wouldn't imply anyone else is bad at PvP.

[Jeffor]

If myself and a couple friends/or guildies make a group and queue up for some warzones, and then want to talk to each other in vent , because typing is lame. Then proceed to communicate with each other whilst in said warzones, and we end up all focusing dps on the same target then burn it down and move on to the next and so it continues, 3vs1 over and over. hell, we might even kill the same person a dozen times or more in a row if he/she is a good player. or the ball runner or a threat, or we just dont like your name....

 

how is it unfair or biowares fault? there is sooo much QQ about pvp and getting ganked, calls to nerf this, that, whatever, but at its core its about people who know how to play and people who dont know how to play.

 

People who know how to play will use every tool available to them.

People who dont know how to play, blame others. its that easy.

 

Those who complain pvp is unfair, what do you think pvp ranked system coming in 1.2 iis going to do? Solo ranked WZ are going to show who knows how to play their characters and group ranked WZ are going to show who knows how to play in a team effectively. where are you going to fit in?

 

So basically this is a post about how great you and your friends are? Congratulations... Oh wait you already did that yourself.

[HBninjaX]

uh, that's how you're supposed to play OP. you think you're special or something? don't get too excited Edited April 2, 2012 by HBninjaX

[irdc]

I "premade" in EQ2 open world on Vent before WoW had battlegrounds.

 

Well, EQ2 was released in, what, November 2004, so my point still stands

 

Lone Wolfers aren't going to inheretly get better by lone wolfing. You have to want to get better to succeed and learning how to play in a cohessive team is just as difficult. Playing with a dedicated PvP group you can also learn your weaknesses. It's not all about a VoIP crutch and 1 type of player being superior to the other. I never claimed all soloers were terrible.

 

Sure, fair enough.

[BCBull]

Bioware

 

Not only unfair, but people unsub over it

 

Link source please.

[Kunari]

Its unfair to have three such people on my team. They reduce the chance to win any objective based game massively

 

Yes, I think that's part of it. Resolve bar doesn't always work. You have a full resolve bar, pop your CC breaker, and still get CC'd again.

[maticlandarr]

That is how WoW has conditioned people.

 

Personally, I find many premades and the use of voice to be a crutch. I find it often leads to BAD pvp'ers because they never develop many of the skills that are necessary in order to be a truly good PVPer.

 

Then again, I'm one of those semi-loner PVPers. I group with other people here and there. But, to be honest, the last thing I want to hear when I'm in the zone is someone on vent whining about something useless.

 

Wth are you talking about lol

 

No one whining on my guild mumble.

 

Why would you choose to type instead of talk? Makes no sense.

 

MMOS should have onboard voice chat. Until they do you have two choices. Be smart and use vent/mumb. Or come here complaining about the smart people.

 

Pretty clear you made your choice.

[irdc]

Wth are you talking about lol

 

No one whining on my guild mumble.

 

Why would you choose to type instead of talk? Makes no sense.

 

MMOS should have onboard voice chat. Until they do you have two choices. Be smart and use vent/mumb. Or come here complaining about the smart people.

 

Pretty clear you made your choice.

 

You are equating using vent with intelligence. That's a correlation YOU are making because you believe that using every advantage at your disposal is "smart." Using this reasoning, the smartest players around are the ones that use a G15 keyboard to macro up their entire rotation. Does that make them smart? Not necessarily. In fact, it could be a detriment.

 

That's my point.

 

If you're an excellent player, you don't need to talk. You don't need to listen to others. You have a superior grasp of the battlefield. You know what tactics the other side will use (warzones are objective based, after all). You are constantly checking your map to see where you may be needed. You live within the ebb and flow of the game. You know your role and you know how to act as a good team mate.

 

None of the above requires vent in any form.

Edited April 2, 2012 by irdc