NDiggy Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 That's because the ones you have fought are bad. Merc's played well will give an even fight to a marauder, (and have the edge if hes in a platform). ... Please teach us oh great one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astarica Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Im pretty sure he was refering soley to Huttball. Marauders have 2 charges at most. Commandoes have 2 knockbacks, 1 on a 9 second coold down, the other on a 20 second cool down. I know when Ive played my commando on the ramps in hutball, its insanely easy to control the ramps. Any marauders wanting to cash in on being awesome, will find himself promptly relocated to the pit. Commandos dont need to kill you, you are being punished with downtime. From my observation good Marauders (and melee in general) will avoid fighting a Merc on a ramp because it's just a heavily favored matchup for the Merc. If you're serious about fighting one on the ramp, you need a way to knock/pull him down, not theorycraft about how you're supposed to withstand a class with extremely good KB abilities while fighting on somewhere with about an inch of room. Not to mention you're fighting near a fire pit, which can cause instant death to you if you get tossed the wrong way. I have played against plenty of top Marauders on my server and they'll usually charge you once to see if you suck and can get an easy kill. After you Rocket Punch them down, they'll realize you don't suck and just avoid fighting you up there and look for someone else to kill. Of course, on flat terrain this fight is totally different, but Huttball matches outnumber the other two maps put together for Empire players, and even Alderaan has a pretty good ramp in the middle turret. Edited April 3, 2012 by Astarica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamsmacked Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Jugg/Guards when played right have some of the highest PVP burst damage in the game. Seems there's a L2P issue here. Only when you're focus or rage spec, which requires little skill to put up big numbers. I tried the focus spec before and I was literally just clicking all my talents the whole time, didn't even have a hand on the keyboard and was pulling off 250-400k warzones with ease. I was laughing my *** off the entire time, just rolling through other players throwing them in stasis, exhaustion leaping to something and hitting them with massive 5k+ bombs. So ridiculously easy. The tree itself is too easy, so yeah I agree that it's a L2P issue. The skill-gap in this game is one of the lowest I've seen. With 1 button spamming champions and 1 button killing ponies (Smash and Sweep) it's like I'm playing Dragon Age 2 Online. Edited April 3, 2012 by bamsmacked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerberias Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 tank specced/geared of any tanking class does such low damage they've got no pressure - and they just fill my resolve bar like a boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 From my observation good Marauders (and melee in general) will avoid fighting a Merc on a ramp because it's just a heavily favored matchup for the Merc. If you're serious about fighting one on the ramp, you need a way to knock/pull him down, not theorycraft about how you're supposed to withstand a class with extremely good KB abilities while fighting on somewhere with about an inch of room. Not to mention you're fighting near a fire pit, which can cause instant death to you if you get tossed the wrong way. I have played against plenty of top Marauders on my server and they'll usually charge you once to see if you suck and can get an easy kill. After you Rocket Punch them down, they'll realize you don't suck and just avoid fighting you up there and look for someone else to kill. Of course, on flat terrain this fight is totally different, but Huttball matches outnumber the other two maps put together for Empire players, and even Alderaan has a pretty good ramp in the middle turret. Run up the ramp to the Merc. 1st KB is countered with a Charge. 2nd KB is countered with Force Camo. I will then either LOS until Charge is back up or walk back to them if they didn't knock me off the ramp. The Merc is then easy pickings. I LOVE killing mercs on the ramps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koopababy Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Tactics/AP BH/VG isnt that bad at all. i can pull over 400k dmg consistently on that spec and get top kills. prolly just not easy enough for most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) AP Powertech. Of Specs that people actually play? Both DPS Commando options. All the turret mechanics of Marksman Snipers, barely any of the defenses. Pretty much exactly what I was going to say, on both counts. Tactics/AP BH/VG isnt that bad at all. i can pull over 400k dmg consistently on that spec and get top kills. prolly just not easy enough for most. Have you tried seeing what kind of numbers you can pull as a deep Pyro spec after a week of getting used to it? I played AP from 1-50 and for a while at 50. After getting used to my current spec (2/12/27), I don't lose any of the real utility of AP, while doing the same amount of damage twice as fast. Edited April 3, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Run up the ramp to the Merc. 1st KB is countered with a Charge. 2nd KB is countered with Force Camo. I will then either LOS until Charge is back up or walk back to them if they didn't knock me off the ramp. The Merc is then easy pickings. I LOVE killing mercs on the ramps. your forgetting the mercs knock back every 9 seconds, he will always have an answer for your charge. All that you achieve here is blowing force camo, and wasting time. The only time you are going to get your damage off, is If the merc stuffs up his kb, or is occupied with someone else. The merc doesnt need to kill you. Hes controlling you. Edited April 3, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 your forgetting the mercs knock back every 9 seconds. All that you achieve here is blowing force camo, and wasting time. The only time you are going to get your damage off, is If the merc stuffs up his kb, or is occupied with someone else. I've honestly never had a Merc live long enough to use a 2nd knockback in a 1v1 fight. <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordredz Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I've honestly never had a Merc live long enough to use a 2nd knockback in a 1v1 fight. <.< Grats on killing every merc you have ever seen in 9 seconds then? um ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biowareftw Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 That's because the ones you have fought are bad. Merc's played well will give an even fight to a marauder, (and have the edge if hes in a platform). LOL. No. I can kill a "pro" commando/merc and still finish with 3/4 of my health on damn near every melee class in this game. That doesn't mean commando/mercs are a bad WZ class. They are fantastic. 1v1? They are simply the worst class in the game. The worst WZ class? Dirty Fighting Scoundrel/op. It is like playing a sage/sorc but without a knockback, worse CC, worse dmg. no bubble, and no force sprint and absolutely HORRID resource efficiency. The tree should just be named LOL Fighting. With the 1.2 changes scrapper should just be named crapper. The heal tree? I guess you could name that "what you should spec", because that is all the class will have left. Fantastic healers in 1.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Grats on killing every merc you have ever seen in 9 seconds then? um ok... I've honestly never had a Merc live long enough to use a 2nd knockback in a 1v1 fight. <.< Context. Also, I play a Pyro PT; I am their hard counter. Edited April 3, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) I've honestly never had a Merc live long enough to use a 2nd knockback in a 1v1 fight. <.< On even even ground, yes easy kill. The scenario is a Marauder fighting a Merc who is perched on a ramp . Charge, knocked off immediently. Knock back will be ready again before the oponent makes up lost ground. The marauder isnt going to be able to kill a merc in 1 global cooldown. Edited April 3, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 your forgetting the mercs knock back every 9 seconds, he will always have an answer for your charge. All that you achieve here is blowing force camo, and wasting time. The only time you are going to get your damage off, is If the merc stuffs up his kb, or is occupied with someone else. The merc doesnt need to kill you. Hes controlling you. Merc still has to knock me off the ramp. He's not going to do it 100% of the time, it's pretty easy to walk back from the RP knockback. Either way, the Merc is as good as dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) On even even ground, yes easy kill. Being on a ramp is the key point here. Charge, knocked off immediently. Knock back will be ready again before the oponent makes up lost ground. The marauder isnt going to be able to kill a merc in 1 global cooldown. No, you're right, the Huttball middle bridge is pretty much the best position possible for a Merc in any WZ, period. It's a pain to get them down, and it's the only time I will ever burn my gap closer (Grapple) at the start of a fight w/ them. I'm comfortable w/ blowing my CC breaker for the knockback after that point to get back on them, and after that it's usually over thanks to 6 second interrupts. I imagine a Mara would have a bit more trouble, though. If he can juke the Jet Blast, the RP knockback won't send him very far. You can position yourself so that you won't go over, just like a Sorc's knockback. Edited April 3, 2012 by Varicite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Merc still has to knock me off the ramp. He's not going to do it 100% of the time, it's pretty easy to walk back from the RP knockback. Either way, the Merc is as good as dead. Instant knockback isnt hard to direct (with good latency). If one knock back fails he has a backup. Odds are in their favour unless they arent very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDiggy Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 your forgetting the mercs knock back every 9 seconds, he will always have an answer for your charge. All that you achieve here is blowing force camo, and wasting time. The only time you are going to get your damage off, is If the merc stuffs up his kb, or is occupied with someone else. The merc doesnt need to kill you. Hes controlling you. With talents and pvp gear we can get concussion charge down to 15 seconds. The 9 second knockback you're talking about must be the talented pommel strike, which is a joke. It knocks people back SO far they're still in melee range. Any Gunnery Commando with that talent is wasting talent points and wasting ammo on pommel strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) No, you're right, the Huttball middle bridge is pretty much the best position possible for a Merc in any WZ, period. It's a pain to get them down, and it's the only time I will ever burn my gap closer (Grapple) at the start of a fight w/ them. I'm comfortable w/ blowing my CC breaker for the knockback after that point to get back on them, and after that it's usually over thanks to 6 second interrupts. I imagine a Mara would have a bit more trouble, though. If he can juke the Jet Blast, the RP knockback won't send him very far. You can position yourself so that you won't go over, just like a Sorc's knockback. I was strictly talking about a marauder (melee), you as a PT would pretty much destroy a Merc in any scenario. sorc knock backs have a delay. stock strike doesnt Edited April 3, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) With talents and pvp gear we can get concussion charge down to 15 seconds. The 9 second knockback you're talking about must be the talented pommel strike, which is a joke. It knocks people back SO far they're still in melee range. Any Gunnery Commando with that talent is wasting talent points and wasting ammo on pommel strike. You have to read this in context Mate. The whole conversation is a Merc on a Ramp in Hutball. Pommel Strike is AMAZING in this instance. Having the 15 second concussion charge (jet boost?)just makes it better. They are one of the best, if not the best ramp controllers. Edited April 3, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varicite Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I was strictly talking about a marauder (melee), you as a PT would pretty much destroy a Merc in any scenario Ah, disregard then. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Ah, disregard then. : ) I mean in your case if they knocked you off, you would just grapple them down. = goodbye merc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Instant knockback isnt hard to direct (with good latency). If one knock back fails he has a backup. Odds are in their favour unless they arent very good. Well the first KB is difficult to avoid because it's a far knockback. The Rocket Punch knockback, on the other hand, is easy to avoid. The only time a Merc moves is when he's positioning himself to try that knockback. I can avoid it 1/2 of the time. Luckily, each time he succeeds, my Charge is usually up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Well the first KB is difficult to avoid because it's a far knockback. The Rocket Punch knockback, on the other hand, is easy to avoid. The only time a Merc moves is when he's positioning himself to try that knockback. I can avoid it 1/2 of the time. Luckily, each time he succeeds, my Charge is usually up I guess its a case of practice on both sides of the fence. I only have an alt merc that I play for giggles. Never had any real trouble knocking back anyone where I wanted them. hell I would even get cocky and drag them close the the fire pit. while they are trying to avoid being knocked off I instead knocked them in the pit. good times. but yeah...screw trying to face marauders ANY where else in any other scenario (good ones that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitsuo Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I guess its a case of practice on both sides of the fence. I only have an alt merc that I play for giggles. Never had any real trouble knocking back anyone where I wanted them. hell I would even get cocky and drag them close the the fire pit. while they are trying to avoid being knocked off I instead knocked them in the pit. good times. but yeah...screw trying to face marauders ANY where else in any other scenario (good ones that is) Sounds about right to me, each side has l2p issues Good Mercs can pump out a LOT of damage, great ones can do it even with a class interrupting them, but if I let a great Merc freecast into a group, my team is dead. I'd rather be kept busy whilst keeping a Merc busy than just letting him melt my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthPunitor Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 If you get popped off the bridge in Huttball you do one of two things 1. Charge back 2. Force Camo--->LOS--->Charge back If you lose to a TM merc as a Marauder, you're terrible a decent merc will get out of the los so you cant charge back, and what if force camo is on a cool down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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