Trauma Probe 1.2

[CAMELOTCRUSADE]

So, trauma probe used to be free and now it's going to cost 2 ammo. 1 ammo I could maybe understand, but 2?

 

Why did they do this? Theories?

 

I'm scratching my head here. All I got is that maybe raid gear makes it so trauma probe crits and surges high enough to be too good for a free ability. I don't raid so I don't know.

 

I like being able to spam it because it's too hard to see the icon on my target to know whether or not it's up. Guess that habit will have to change.

 

I suppose that's the trouble with free abilities. If you get what you pay for, people say it sucks too much to bother with and clamor for improvements. If you get more than you pay for, somebody will scream it's too good, and in comes the nerf bat.

 

So, I am not happy with this change. I think it's too expensive now.

[Karlonta]

like you i could see it having 1 ammo cost, i guess what Bioware is think is that a free, instant, 10 charge heal is extremely powerful. to me, it's kinda meh, i throw it whenever i can, but i certainly don't expect it to save the tank.

[CAMELOTCRUSADE]

Exactly. On paper you might think, "Oh, 10 charge x 200 hp = 2000 hp heal for free!"

 

Except it doesn't make the difference that having a 2k free heal would make... we should know, we have one of those too. The fact that you have to get hit to get healed is what weakens it to an appropriate level imo, not raising the cost. Sure, get you get 2k, but to get it you had to take a ton more damage if you're doing something level appropriate or harder, and there's no way to get all that healing in before all the damage comes in to offset it.

 

Not saying it's useless, I'm saying it's not worth 2 ammo in fights where the ammo cost really matters.

[RuQu]

As always our problem is a lack of any communication from the Devs. They say they have metrics, but we have no idea what they are. They say they have design documents, but we have never been told what the design intentions are for any of the classes.

 

I did a comparison of some abilities a while back in this thread. Relevant excerpt:

 

(Details on stats are in the linked thread, but for our purposes understand that base stats were the same, and all relevant class skills were considered).

 

TP: 3864.9*1.324 = 5117.13 => 170.57 HPS

SRMP: 1978.07*1.2475 = 2467.64 => 137.09 HPS (274.18HPS @ 2 stacks)

FA: 2721.73 * 1.22 = 3320.51 => 166.03 HPS (195.32 with PvP set bonus)

Rejuv: (752.90 + 812.31) * 1.02*1.2475 = 1991.65 => 221.29 HPS

 

Now, we should see HoTs as the highest HPS, because they are non-reactive. Any time the tank is otherwise at full health, the HoT will continue to waste ticks on over-healing, and that needs compensation. This is what we see.

 

Since these tend to be "fire and forget" abilities, it is worth looking at the healing per cast time. All of them are instant, so they all take 1.5s, so the difference in HPCT can be seen at a glance:

 

TP: 3411.42 HPCT

SRMP: 1645.1 HPCT (doesn't change with 2 stacks)

FA: 2213.67 HPCT

Rejuv: 1327.76 HPCT

 

Now, we can see that the total healing done by TP was quite high, but it was spread over a very long time, so its HPS was in line with what you would expect when comparing it to the HoTs.

 

Where it really shined was in HPCT, since it was only cast once per 30s. If the HPCT was considered OP, the more appropriate answer would be to reduce the heal by 33%, and reduce the ICD to 2s, so the HPS would remain the same, but it would need to be cast 33% more often, which would reduce the HPCT to 2285 which is ~= to Sage's FA.

 

Instead they added 2 Ammo to it. This greatly reduces the flexibility. Currently it is often refreshed early when you have a spare GCD because the UI problems make it hard to track. I know on my screen it is often covered by my right quickslot bar if I have the tank targeted and I cannot see it at all. That bad UI design work-around will no longer be affordable. Instead we will be waiting for the last tick to drop, and maintaining it at ~ 1 cast per 30s.

 

I went into the math in another thread, but 2 Ammo / 30s is equivalent to a passive regen nerf of 11.1% (-0.067 Ammo /s), assuming you only ever cast it while at 10+ Ammo. There will need to be further testing to determine if 170HPS is worth an 11% reduction in regen. At first glance, if 11% reduced regen means 11% reduced AP/MP usage, then that loss will easily exceed the HPS of TP and render TP useless.

[CAMELOTCRUSADE]

Thanks for the awesome explanation post there. I hope the Devs read it.

 

The TP change needs more thought and attention, imo.

[Tinmancreeping]

The reason for the changes is becauses devs feel like sages and commandos ( opp faction) Have it to easy when managing resources, once you learned the rotation is was very hard to OOM. I dont play heals but I know from what Ive seen Id agree with devs, this also will help with the omg end game is easymode complainers.

[LillyWhiteS]

this also will help with the omg end game is easymode complainers.

 

Better to fix the endgame itself than mess around with such massive nerfs and balance.

 

The only times Com Medic may feel op, is when you are in a premade getting lots of help, in pugs it's not the case.

 

With Trauma Probe, I wouldn't even take it now in PvP, it lost the little value it had, to be able to move it around freely during combat, depending upon who needed it more at the time.

 

You can't afford to do that now and the ammo is better spent elseswhere for me, same with the skill point to get it, it can also go elsewhere...

Edited April 1, 2012 by LillyWhiteS

[oaceen]

The reason for the changes is becauses devs feel like sages and commandos ( opp faction) Have it to easy when managing resources, once you learned the rotation is was very hard to OOM. I dont play heals but I know from what Ive seen Id agree with devs, this also will help with the omg end game is easymode complainers.

 

i agree with this as well.

 

 

that said, i'm not even going to bother traiting trauma probe.

as it is now, i either:

 

a: rarely use it because i never know when the charges are used up

or

b: spam it constantly so i know it's up all the time

 

 

the fact that it was free was the only reason i could really get away with that.

 

 

plus the auto-heals keep causing a lot of aggro issues. i had to stop putting it on the tank anyway.

[Aritok]

The reason for the changes is becauses devs feel like sages and commandos ( opp faction) Have it to easy when managing resources, once you learned the rotation is was very hard to OOM. I dont play heals but I know from what Ive seen Id agree with devs, this also will help with the omg end game is easymode complainers.

 

There will always be a rotation where you dont go oom. In worst case it goes down to one heal every 5 min, or perma free hammer shot. So this explaination is not really helpfull.

[Dayfax]

As a player, I always think resource free abilities are pretty stupid design, unless it's some kind of stance change.

 

Why they did this and then eliminated the cost of Riot Strike is a mystery to me.

[RuQu]

The reason for the changes is becauses devs feel like sages and commandos ( opp faction) Have it to easy when managing resources, once you learned the rotation is was very hard to OOM. I dont play heals but I know from what Ive seen Id agree with devs, this also will help with the omg end game is easymode complainers.

 

You are probably right, the Devs probably do think that.

 

That's because the Devs are all DPS players, and only know how to think like DPS.

 

"If you get the rotation down, you can never go OOM." This statement is so wrong it's funny.

 

Let us assume you have your perfect rotation down.

 

What happens when you tank decides to never use any cooldowns, or bother equipping a shield? Maybe they forget to wear pants.... Without hyperbole, what effect does a bad or undergeared tank have on your resources?

 

What happens when your DPS is slow in responding to mechanics, or ignores them (stands in fire)? How are those infinite resources looking now?

 

What happens when you encounter a boss who does more damage, up the difficulty mode, or accidentally pull an extra pack of trash? In short, what happens when the damage increases?

 

Healer resources reflect all of the variables of the fight. It looks trivial when everyone does it right, and it looks impossible if everyone does it wrong. That it so often looks trivial is a reflection on the entire state of the game, and therefore rebalancing should be applied to all of the game, not just healers.

 

And, if we are being fully honest, nerfing the healers alone is downright stupid. Currently the fights are too simple, trivial mechanics, and too little damage. Nerfing healers to match the current fights greatly restricts their options in new content. They are crippling their own freedom to create better content by taking the easy road in making current content harder. The better answer is to say "Tier 1 Operations were too easy, but we consider them a learning experience for players and Devs. They won't be retuned, but new content will be a much greater challenge."

 

I love this game, despite its flaws, but if the Devs want it to last they need to start thinking through their moves and making smart choices, not easy ones.

[Dayfax]

That's because the Devs are all DPS players, and only know how to think like DPS.

 

Is this true or just forum scuttlebutt? If it's true, please be willing to provide a source. I ask because there are two constant complaints on MMO forums: (1) PvP is imbalanced and (2) the devs don't play my class.

 

"If you get the rotation down, you can never go OOM." This statement is so wrong it's funny

 

This is so disingenuous, I have to believe you're intentionally sidestepping the point.

 

Of course healers are taxed when the tank or DPS screw up. That was never what anyone was talking about.

 

It's pretty clear to anyone who heals in this game past level 20 that resource management is a joke. Players on the forums have openly admitted this.

 

When resources become a non-issue, healers don't have to make any up-to-the-minute hard decisions. There are no trade offs. In those situations, the mechanics are so trivialized that playing the class becomes deeply boring. See also: Wrath of the Lich King, where every caster class had an infinite mana pool.

 

The better answer is to say "Tier 1 Operations were too easy, but we consider them a learning experience for players and Devs. They won't be retuned, but new content will be a much greater challenge."

 

They could never do this in practice. The playerbase would scream bloody murder if they shifted the difficulty that much between tiers. See also: Cataclysm.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Dayfax

[RuQu]

Is this true or just forum scuttlebutt? If it's true, please be willing to provide a source. I ask because there are two constant complaints on MMO forums: (1) PvP is imbalanced and (2) the devs don't play my class.

 

Supposition. Have you seen the simplistic mechanics? The general ignorance of how to make healing at all interesting? The failure of GZ to understand how Operatives operate (see Q&A). His failure to understand what was meant by "scaling AoE."

 

This is so disingenuous, I have to believe you're intentionally sidestepping the point.

 

Completely serious. You yourself admit that when things go well it is trivial, and when it doesn't it isn't. To then act as though it always go perfect is clearly fallacious.

 

Of course healers are taxed when the tank or DPS screw up. That was never what anyone was talking about.

 

I'm pretty sure it is what many people are talking about. Many people aren't playing with perfect players, probably because most people aren't perfect. There is a problem with trivial mechanics making it easier for people to pull off fights easily, but that is on the encounter designers, not the healers.

 

It's pretty clear to anyone who heals in this game past level 20 that resource management is a joke. Players on the forums have openly admitted this.

 

Really? Because I have heard many, many Operatives complain about how difficult their energy is to manage when healing.

 

When resources become a non-issue, healers don't have to make any up-to-the-minute hard decisions. There are no trade offs. In those situations, the mechanics are so trivialized that playing the class becomes deeply boring. See also: Wrath of the Lich King, where every caster class had an infinite mana pool.

 

Again, this is better solved by making actually interesting/challenging mechanics. See the LK fight itself. It didn't matter how over-geared you were, or what level Blizz cranked the ezmode buff up to. You could clear the whole instance except the final fight...because it had mechanics you couldn't ignore.

 

They could never do this in practice. The playerbase would scream bloody murder if they shifted the difficulty that much between tiers. See also: Cataclysm.

 

They could do this easily. "We heard you. It was too easy. We are releasing new content that will be tuned such that Story Mode is doable by almost anyone, but Nightmare Mode is a REAL nightmare. We hope that this will allow the most people possible to experience the story while giving those who want a challenge the challenge they have been requesting."

 

That was hard.

[Dayfax]

Supposition. Have you seen the simplistic mechanics? The general ignorance of how to make healing at all interesting? The failure of GZ to understand how Operatives operate (see Q&A). His failure to understand what was meant by "scaling AoE."

 

Completely serious. You yourself admit that when things go well it is trivial, and when it doesn't it isn't. To then act as though it always go perfect is clearly fallacious.

 

I'm pretty sure it is what many people are talking about. Many people aren't playing with perfect players, probably because most people aren't perfect. There is a problem with trivial mechanics making it easier for people to pull off fights easily, but that is on the encounter designers, not the healers.

 

Really? Because I have heard many, many Operatives complain about how difficult their energy is to manage when healing.

 

Again, this is better solved by making actually interesting/challenging mechanics. See the LK fight itself. It didn't matter how over-geared you were, or what level Blizz cranked the ezmode buff up to. You could clear the whole instance except the final fight...because it had mechanics you couldn't ignore.

 

They could do this easily. "We heard you. It was too easy. We are releasing new content that will be tuned such that Story Mode is doable by almost anyone, but Nightmare Mode is a REAL nightmare. We hope that this will allow the most people possible to experience the story while giving those who want a challenge the challenge they have been requesting."

 

That was hard.

 

Ok, so it's pure scuttlebutt. You might want to phrase these things in a way that doesn't sound so definitive. Besides which, if you want a healthy game and a better forum environment, this us-vs-them attitude with the devs that perpetuates around here needs to go.

 

--

 

The resources a trivial because they are. I mean, I've pulled bad stand-in-the-fire DPS and obviously clueless tanks through content without breaking a sweat. People stayed alive when the entire group should have wiped multiple times. Granted, I had to keep on my toes and pay attention. But you know what I have never said, as a Combat Medic, to another player in this game? "Sorry, dude. I went OOM."

 

So the answer to you non-hyperbolic question of, "what effect does a bad or undergeared tank have on your resources?" is: Virtually none.

 

--

 

And ... Really? You're citing Ops? Because as far as I know, Operative resources aren't getting nerfed. Only Sages and Commandos, the two classes that virtually everyone (aside from you) acknowledges as never going OOM.

 

This example is nearly as ridiculous as your no-pants wearing tank.

 

--

 

Not sure your counter LK fight is such a great example. You're citing 1 boss after two years of faceroll. But if you played that expansion, then you know what I'm talking about. Healers going out of mana after the first tier was never and issue and it was boring as hell. It used to be, DPS needed to be good enough, not because of enrage timers, but because there was a hard limit on healer resources. What happened to that?

 

I'm all for good fight mechanics, but those need to be based on solid gameplay. Infinite mana pools and trivial resource management doesn't provide the basis of a good raid.

 

--

 

Game developers of MMOs almost never offer mea culpas on content while it is still relevant. I sure as hell wouldn't expect a company like EA to offer one.

 

But the real issue is the playerbase. Nobody likes a bait and switch. Making the content "really" hard would generate ten times the QQ as the 1.2 nerfs did.

 

This is exactly what happened with Cataclysm. The content was nowhere near the difficulty of Burning Crusade, but still everyone who had been on the Lich King gravy train of non stop tier drops witched up a storm about it. And then the content was nerfed across the board.

[Aritok]

...

It's pretty clear to anyone who heals in this game past level 20 that resource management is a joke. Players on the forums have openly admitted this.

 

When resources become a non-issue, healers don't have to make any up-to-the-minute hard decisions. There are no trade offs. In those situations, the mechanics are so trivialized that playing the class becomes deeply boring. See also: Wrath of the Lich King, where every caster class had an infinite mana pool.

....

 

Sorry, but here i have to intervene.

 

This statement only count for solo stuff and non heroic stuff. And is the same for healer as for DPS. So pls, if you call for a nerf because of this, you can as well nerf all the DPS.

Of course i can heal my companion against this trash mobs with my single heals. The question is, can you solo all stuff in the world, or is there a point where your healing is to weak? If a level 20 healer is starting to solo the H4 missions (that a DPS cant solo!!) than i would agree to you.

And as long as i see Shadows easy solo the H4 on Belsavis, i really cant agree to you that healers are OP or that the resource system is broken. I cant solo heal against these 4 golden + 2 silver mobs without going oom.

 

 

The Commando has 12 ammo. And the big heal cost 3. You can, thanks to the regen, cast this heal 4-5 times. After this your ammo and your ammo regen is gone. Non existance. You have one recharge cells to get a few more ammo, but after all, if you have to burn like this, your resources are gone. Of course you dont heal this way, and fine a rotation to get more heal out of the limited system. But this big heal is the best heal you have. And on any mob you need to chain cast this, because the damage is to high, you would go oom within a few sec.

 

Just because of the whole resource system, there is alawys a rotaion where you dont go out of ammo. This rotataion results in a fixed HPS that you can heal. As soon as the group is getting more damage than this, you wipe. Easy math.

 

And if some say healers are OP because they can heal the flashpoints without any problems in their Rakata gear, than its called overgeared, and not overpowered.

 

This means, resources are always an issue. If i could stand there and just chain cast by best heal without going oom THAN i would agree that there is something wrong.

 

 

Basicly everytime someone die in an Flashpoint or in an ops, it means my healing was not good enough, they were to stupid, or i was out of ammo to heal.

 

And trust me, this "oom" happens alot more than you try to tell us. It may be because of stupid DPS and tanks who think the healer will heal, i dont have to dodge this ae or red mark on the ground. Or it may because of big AEs where you have to heal everyone. Again, with 4 player, all getting damage, means you have to cast alot of the big heals in short time, and this ruins your ammo pool.

 

It does not happen on a sage, if they know what they are doing. BUT, even a sage can go oom and not get back his force. And at exact the same point as the commando. If the damage of the mobs in bigger than his max HPS. The only difference, the sage HPS is alot higher than the commando HPS (on more than one target). Most likly because of the bug at the moment. No idea how it would chance without it, but i guess still alot more.

 

 

I can tell you at least a dozen mobs and events where i would go oom and struggle with hammer shots to keep everyone alive. And exactly these mobs and events WILL be a problem with 1.2 for a commando healer. If they think healing is to easy on certain mobs, they should improve the damage from these mobs that are to easy. But reducing the healing in general just make these balanced events impossible for healers. I could bet no one did the flashpoints or mobs (d7 for example) on the PTS wth the correct gear (Tionese). So it will only become visible when it all goes live, and alot come to the forum and say they cant do this or that flashpoint anymore.

But i already know the answer for this. Its the same that was given in the past: "Use a sage healer......"

[ImariKurumi]

Trauma Probe is useful in PvE, but in PvP where burst dmg and focus fire is predominant, its almost useless. I usually just cast it on myself while running away or to provide a tiny buffer against aoes. Im not that affected by it but its pretty sad that we will have a jaring useless talent Skill in our tree.

 

Whats the bigger problem is the nerfs to ammo to AMP, SCC. Also SCC getting 3 nerfs, lower dmg reduction KB etc etc. They're turning barely useful talents to totally useless.

 

I think Bioware is "Balancing" Commando Medic based on PvE content and not PvP content. Seems they think Healing in PvE = Healing in PvP. Sigh...

[Easpeak]

Trauma Probe is useful in PvE, but in PvP where burst dmg and focus fire is predominant, its almost useless. I usually just cast it on myself while running away or to provide a tiny buffer against aoes. Im not that affected by it but its pretty sad that we will have a jaring useless talent Skill in our tree.

 

Whats the bigger problem is the nerfs to ammo to AMP, SCC. Also SCC getting 3 nerfs, lower dmg reduction KB etc etc. They're turning barely useful talents to totally useless.

 

I think Bioware is "Balancing" Commando Medic based on PvE content and not PvP content. Seems they think Healing in PvE = Healing in PvP. Sigh...

 

I'm more of a PvP healer. I found Trauma Probe to actually be pretty awesome when I have two commando healers dropping them on a ball carrier in Huttball, that plus the "Saviour Beam" lets a person take quite abit of damage.

 

In other scenarios I applied it in the beginning or when it was 1-on-1 or 2-on-1 situations. Everything after that I concentrated on other things.

 

From a PvP perspective I don't think the changes will make me heal less in WZs, I just think they will make me feel "useless" and take out some of the fun I had because I could use different abilities to make more interactive for myself.

 

Now I will just drop all the useless minor stuff in my expertise and turret heal.

 

But I'm pretty sure it will hurt a lot more for the PvE people, those flashpoints that I've done if something goes wrong then I can go OOM if the situation is not cleared fast enough.

[Dayfax]

The Commando has 12 ammo. And the big heal cost 3. You can, thanks to the regen, cast this heal 4-5 times. After this your ammo and your ammo regen is gone. Non existance. You have one recharge cells to get a few more ammo, but after all, if you have to burn like this, your resources are gone. Of course you dont heal this way, and fine a rotation to get more heal out of the limited system. But this big heal is the best heal you have. And on any mob you need to chain cast this, because the damage is to high, you would go oom within a few sec.

 

Just because of the whole resource system, there is alawys a rotaion where you dont go out of ammo. This rotataion results in a fixed HPS that you can heal. As soon as the group is getting more damage than this, you wipe. Easy math.

 

You misunderstood my point. I never said healers were overpowered, or claimed that they could solo Heroic 4s.

 

I said the resource system is trivial, and in most situations with players of average competence, nobody is going OOM. If resource management is a neglible issue, it takes most of the skill out of healing and makes the encounters far easier than they should be.

 

If you think I'm wrong, point me to the threads on the Flashpoints & Operations forums, the PvP forums, or the Healing forums (!) where healers are struggling to get through content & asking for advice, or they are having trouble with any regen mechanics whatsoever.

 

The one area where I agree with RuQu is that nerfing healing specs in this way is a quick, and somewhat lazy, solution to a few problems.

 

But you guys are talking about massive content rebalances, and given the state of the game & some of the perceptions out there, I don't blame Bioware for taking the easier path.

 

PS: In practice, Commandos can cast 2 heals in 3.5 seconds for .. 3 ammo. That "big" heal you referenced has its cost is reduced by more than half if you prime it correctly. Nevermind the passive utility you get from Supercharge, as it stands now, for a pretty low price. That kind of thing is part of the problem I'm talking about.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Dayfax

[RuQu]

You misunderstood my point.

 

The one area where I agree with RuQu is that nerfing healing specs in this way is a quick, and somewhat lazy, solution to a few problems.

 

But you guys are talking about massive content rebalances, and given the state of the game & some of the perceptions out there, I don't blame Bioware for taking the easier path.

 

 

And you are misunderstanding my point.

 

I think I have been pretty explicit and straightforward in saying that they don't need to rebalance EV and KP. They just need to tune EC correctly.

 

From your previous posts you clearly played WoW at least duing WotLK. How many people were running Naxx after Ulduar came out? After ToC? After ICC?

 

Old content is irrelevant in MMOs. EV and KP "Story Mode" will be run by new players to see the story, especially if they make it a requirement before you can do EC. A few guilds who are 5/10, 8/10 or 9/10 might continue trying to get that last boss or two down, or try the Op they hadn't done yet just to round out their kill list.

 

People might keep running them trying to get the titles with the help of the new gear if they don't have them yet.

 

But with a few exceptions, that content is obsolete when new content comes out. No one is demanding that Blizzard retune Molten Core because it is now soloable instead of needing 40 people. It's accepted, because it is old content.

 

GZ explicitly said during the Guild Summit that they made content too easy and that EC Nightmare would live up to the name. Despite your statement that they would never give a mea culpa, they already have.

 

I'm not suggesting a massive rebalance, I'm actually suggesting less work! Leave the healers as they are, and then make the new content hard enough that it taxes our resources.

 

I agree that trivial resources make for boring healing. However, I disagree that healing suddenly becomes interesting just because resources are non-trivial. Make my resource management matter because there is a lot of damage coming in, not because my abilities now cost a lot more.

 

And if this new "impotent healer" model is how they want to go forward, it suggests they were not able to make NMM EC difficult on its own, nor were they able to make healing interesting through new mechanics. The impotence of healing will limit future content design, and none of this bodes well for either their creative vision or the future of the game.

[Jinkblade]

If by some odd chance I am still playing combat medic in 1.2 I will be dropping trauma probe and saving the extra point for something worth a ****.

[Dayfax]

And you are misunderstanding my point

 

I think I have been pretty explicit and straightforward in saying that they don't need to rebalance EV and KP. They just need to tune EC correctly.

 

No, I understood your point just fine. I think it's shallow & shortsighted, in that it ignores real world constraints.

 

And this is the first time in this thread, in this context, that you mentioned specific content. I was half responding to you & half responding to the other guy, but the basic point still stands: adjusting healing metrics is easier than rebalanced fight mechanics, on any scale.

 

You also might consider that Bioware intentionally is trying to make all group content, from Cademimu normal to EV Nightmare to PvP warzones, more challenging in one fell swoop.

 

I'm not suggesting a massive rebalance, I'm actually suggesting less work! Leave the healers as they are, and then make the new content hard enough that it taxes our resources.

 

Then you'd be on the forums complaining about throughput, or that Commandos aren't built for spam healing the way Sages are.

 

How is it less work? Again, you're assuming the only goal here is to "fix" endgame raiding, whereas Bioware might be more interested in tuning the game overall.

 

How does it limit future content? Healers running around with unlimited mana pools limits design choices far more, because (again, pointing to WotLK and Cata) the only really way to make fights challenging are gimmicky mechanics like massive spike damage on the tanks or raid wide, unavoidable AoE damage.

[Kunari]

If by some odd chance I am still playing combat medic in 1.2 I will be dropping trauma probe and saving the extra point for something worth a ****.

 

^- That, pretty much that. Either retire my Trooper to level another class or go back to gunnery.

[RuQu]

No, I understood your point just fine. I think it's shallow & shortsighted, in that it ignores real world constraints.

 

And this is the first time in this thread, in this context, that you mentioned specific content. I was half responding to you & half responding to the other guy, but the basic point still stands: adjusting healing metrics is easier than rebalanced fight mechanics, on any scale.

 

You also might consider that Bioware intentionally is trying to make all group content, from Cademimu normal to EV Nightmare to PvP warzones, more challenging in one fell swoop.

 

About 3 or 4 posts ago in this thread I said this:

They could do this easily. "We heard you. It was too easy. We are releasing new content that will be tuned such that Story Mode is doable by almost anyone, but Nightmare Mode is a REAL nightmare. We hope that this will allow the most people possible to experience the story while giving those who want a challenge the challenge they have been requesting."

 

So if my last post is the first time you've seen rebalancing mentioned in the context of new content, perhaps you are arguing too much and reading too little?

 

I agree that changing healing mechanics is easier than rebalancing any content, from a programming point of view. As you point out, however, that changes all of the content from the time the changes affect players (ie when they can first take Field Triage or Resplendence). Are they retuning that content, or content to leave it as it is? If the point is to avoid having to retune any instances, but healers report one FP is too tough now, are they going to go and adjust all of the mobs/encounters in that FP? I highly doubt it. Certainly not before 1.2 goes Live.

 

As for the goal of making leveling content harder, who asked for this? Why is that even desirable? End-game raiders requested harder HM and NMM content...I've never seen someone complain about Athiss being too easy.

 

Then you'd be on the forums complaining about throughput, or that Commandos aren't built for spam healing the way Sages are.

 

People will always complain. The question is the magnitude of the complaint. Commandos and Operatives were complaining about capped AoE healing and no smart-healing pre-1.2, and they will continue to do so. That's a QoL and balance concern, but it is minor in comparison to the current set of changes.

 

If there were no changes or improvements left to request, it is only because a game is dead. People have different wants and desires, and requesting those changes is what brings them to the forums. You call it complaining, presumably to make yourself feel superior to those who are seeking to push the game in the direction they would most enjoy.

 

How is it less work? Again, you're assuming the only goal here is to "fix" endgame raiding, whereas Bioware might be more interested in tuning the game overall.

 

How is the answer not obvious? Two options:

 

1) Tune a new instance, that needs tuning regardless, to be harder. No matter the difficulty they are looking for, it still takes the same effort to tune it...

 

2) Nerf healers, let them loose on the world, watch where they struggle, ignore the outcry or retune all of the content that is impacted.

 

One of those is much easier, produces a better result, and is far more popular with the audience....but they chose the other one.

 

Perhaps you are right that they wanted to make content harder from the end of Chapter 1 on, but, if so, that only brings us back to the question of "Why?" Many very casual players and non-MMO players play this game just for the single-player SW story experience. You can see them post on the forums saying as much. Are they demanding harder content mid-30s? As it stands now, I've had guildies who needed help killing class quest bosses. Do they need to be harder?

 

And if they wanted to do something as sweeping as a full post-Chapter 1 difficulty revamp...why does it rest entirely on 3 ACs? The other ACs will have the same leveling experience, these 3 will not. I have a 50 Shadow and a 50 Commando, and, if anything, the Shadow leveling experience was easier. If that was their intention, this was a terrible way to do it.

 

How does it limit future content? Healers running around with unlimited mana pools limits design choices far more, because (again, pointing to WotLK and Cata) the only really way to make fights challenging are gimmicky mechanics like massive spike damage on the tanks or raid wide, unavoidable AoE damage.

 

For one, they can never put in meaningful spike damage. They just removed or weakened most of the burst healing ability of 2 ACs. Putting in a major spike within a sustained rotation would be lethal. So now they can either do a big spike, big cooldown, or constant light damage, and nothing else.

 

Healers should be decision-limited, not resource-limited. Yes, there should be resource restrictions, that needs to factor into the decision. With these new changes, you will have very few choices, primarily just a rotation to follow. A far more interesting design is to give healers choices (who to heal, how to heal them) that have time constraints which add pressure and adrenaline to the decision (better decide fast, that next hit will kill someone, how long until CD/resources are available), and consequences (chose the HoT instead of the direct heal, now you lack the resources/time to land the direct heal before the next hit and the player died).

 

BW is making resources important, but they are doing it in a way that removes decisions from an already primitively simplistic healer design.

[ImariKurumi]

^- That, pretty much that. Either retire my Trooper to level another class or go back to gunnery.

 

LOL, if you cant beat them, join them! Lets all roll DPS class, soon the forums will be flooded with "WTB HEALER"!!! Then serves them right...

Edited April 4, 2012 by ImariKurumi

[Aritok]

After some calculations on the other thread i came to the conclussion, that trauma probe is really a bit overpowered right now, and a cost of 2 is still worth it.

 

Let me explain why:

I made a List of all heals and their HPS based on the time it take to get back the cost of it.

And Trauma Probe, with a cost of 0 (so only the GCD of 1.5), that is healing around 4-5k (for me with the given stats), is way more effective as the best heal (salvation on 8 targets). Sure, it is over a time of 30 sec (less because of the bug), but its still the best and most effective spell commandos have.

And this dont even include the ammo regen you have in this time.

 

So even with a cost of 2, the Trauma Probe need 3.3 sec to regen the ammo. But this would still end in a HPS of 1200-1500. And this is still more than our best heal can ever do.

 

The Trauma probe just have to change from a "i cast everytime i can because its free" to a spell that should be used with caution.