jacengotpwned Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I am not usually one to qq on the forums, but I find the powertech parakeet nerf ridiculous. The build as it stands now is by no means overpowered in pvp. The parakeet build never allows for top dps or top survivability when compared to competent players playing with pure tank or dps specs. It is simply a good mix of the two. By making prototype particle accelerator require CGC, bioware is severely gimping the enjoyment of pvping as a powertech. They are cornering us powertechs into playing as a glass-cannon dps class or as a tank who can do no damage. Even worse, pyrotech is getting a huge dps nerf to PPA with the added internal timer, which will channel powertechs into st or ap instead of pyro. As a result, the eliminator gear which most parakeet players (and lots of pyrotechs) use (for the set bonus) is going to be useless to us. Most of the top powertechs are going to need to get an entire new set of battlemaster gear to even be viable in ranked pvp. Since this is the pvp forum, I'm not even going to get into the severe ramifications the parakeet nerf will have to the offtank in my raid group. It just seems that powertech is getting screwed by the balance changes in the next patch for unjustified reasons. Why all the hate for hybrid specs bioware? Parakeet should not be destroyed simply because it was not what you planned for when you made the class. It is a really fun, non-op spec for pvp and is the best off-tank spec for powertechs in raids. Edited March 30, 2012 by jacengotpwned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Why all the hate for hybrid specs bioware? I've been wondering this myself. The more viable spec options, the better IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I've been wondering this myself. The more viable spec options, the better IMO. I don't know either but every single MMO developer seems to hate hybrid specs extremely. They gutted them all the time in WoW, in Age of Conan and in countless other games. I could understand buffing the 31 point talents to be competitive but why completely destroy the hybrid spec instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheg Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 They are cornering us powertechs into playing as a glass-cannon dps class or as a tank who can do no damage. So what you're saying is you want to have your cake AND eat it too? Bioware is just fixing what needs to be fixed: A class with HUGE burst and high survivability. Next up: Smashing Tankassins into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Some pretty OP stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AetherMcLoud Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 So what you're saying is you want to have your cake AND eat it too? Bioware is just fixing what needs to be fixed: A class with HUGE burst and high survivability. Next up: Smashing Tankassins into the ground. The day that every viable tank spec is gutted for soloplay (and therefore noone will play them anymore) you will realize that you need tanks for pve content... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 balance/tweak all you want, but please don't make: http://img1.mmo.mmo4arab.com/wow/20111021/new_system/new_system_2s.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asphen Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Isn't a parakeet a bird? I do not follow this thread. Is this about endless Railshot spam? If so then yeah, that needed nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacengotpwned Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) So what you're saying is you want to have your cake AND eat it too? Bioware is just fixing what needs to be fixed: A class with HUGE burst and high survivability. Next up: Smashing Tankassins into the ground. Except the burst is already being nerfed due to the internal timer on ppa so your point is moot. And the burst is highly reliant on procs anyway. Edited March 30, 2012 by jacengotpwned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Why all the hate for hybrid specs bioware? Parakeet should not be destroyed simply because it was not what you planned for when you made the class. It is a really fun, non-op spec for pvp and is the best off-tank spec for powertechs in raids. Hybrid specs are much harder for them to balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheg Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The day that every viable tank spec is gutted for soloplay (and therefore noone will play them anymore) you will realize that you need tanks for pve content... Viable tank spec? Slow DPS with high survivability is hardly non-viable. People are just too impatient to play them. That by no means is a valid rationale to imbalance the game by allowing such hybrid builds to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Isn't a parakeet a bird? I do not follow this thread. Is this about endless Railshot spam? If so then yeah, that needed nerfed. Carolina Parokeet is the 21/2/18 van, PT build. The species of bird went extinct on feb 21, 1918, hence the nickname for the build (21/2/18). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlonzoOdantis Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 So what you're saying is you want to have your cake AND eat it too? Bioware is just fixing what needs to be fixed: A class with HUGE burst and high survivability. Next up: Smashing Tankassins into the ground. Do you even comprehend the original post? The parakeet build was a "fun" build but it was NOT used to be "powerful" it was a middle of the road build, not both high damage and survivable. The op said it seems BW wants PTs to either be either one or the other. Keep crying nerf because you can't l2p though, that's much more effective. Also the pyro "nerf" is hardly a nerf, they jsut stabilized the dps, you won't have 3-4 procs ina row but you also won't have 30 seconds going by without a single proc either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't know either but every single MMO developer seems to hate hybrid specs extremely. They gutted them all the time in WoW, in Age of Conan and in countless other games. I could understand buffing the 31 point talents to be competitive but why completely destroy the hybrid spec instead? When they are designing the talent trees, they place more powerful talents at the top of the tree. If people are making hybrid builds that means one of two things: 1. The top tier talents aren't strong enough 2. The hybrid build is imbalanced. Basically, if everyone is rolling hybrid builds something is wrong - that's why they continue to nerf them. They were never intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numerii Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 balance/tweak all you want, but please don't make: http://img1.mmo.mmo4arab.com/wow/20111021/new_system/new_system_2s.jpg Quit WoW for that very reason right there. They won't stop until every class is Homogenized and balance is simply a slight nudge on a slider. Lazy programmers making boring games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veeius Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Quit WoW for that very reason right there. They won't stop until every class is Homogenized and balance is simply a slight nudge on a slider. Lazy programmers making boring games. To be absolutely fair, devs are in a no win situation. Everyone believes every spec except theirs is OP and their spec is UP. After seven years of constant whining I could understand MoP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The Parakeet build is NOT overpowered. I do agree that hybrid specs should be rebalanced because it's insane that a single player can tank/dps or heal/dps within the same spec and put up massive numbers. It's just not right...on any class. However: The fault lies with BioWare. If the trees in any class were worth a darn, people wouldn't make hybrid builds. Top end tanking talents are all horrible, and there's no point in taking them. So players try to maximize their DPS while tanking. The same can be said for any other hybrid spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzone Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) I don't know either but every single MMO developer seems to hate hybrid specs extremely. They gutted them all the time in WoW, in Age of Conan and in countless other games. I could understand buffing the 31 point talents to be competitive but why completely destroy the hybrid spec instead? The problem is that players are seeing hybrid specs topping the DPS and Healing charts. A full DPS spec should be better for DPS and a full Heal spec should be better for Healing. Skill of the players is also a major factor, but on an average hybrid specs are proving better than a full spec which is wrong. Hybrid specs shouldn't be completely destroyed, but in no way should a hybrid spec compete on either level vs. having a full spec. If they are (note I clearly said if) easily rivaling or beating full specs on average, it's time to rethink hybrid vs. full or expect everyone to go hybrid spec in the long run. What would be the point of the upper tree abilities if no one ever specs them? Pugs might not find out about the difference, especially if they don't read the forums, but those that pay attention will quickly join the ranks once rotations are learned. Edited March 30, 2012 by Ozzone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacengotpwned Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 When they are designing the talent trees, they place more powerful talents at the top of the tree. If people are making hybrid builds that means one of two things: 1. The top tier talents aren't strong enough 2. The hybrid build is imbalanced. Basically, if everyone is rolling hybrid builds something is wrong - that's why they continue to nerf them. They were never intended. Actually the reason why most people run the parakeet build is they want to be more survivable and still have decent dps. It is choosing a middle of the road playstyle, and you are making severe sacrifices in dps and survivability to do so. Everyone is not rolling the parakeet build, there are plenty of high level pyros on my server. If hybrid specs are so bad, then swtor should just put in premade specs that you need to choose from. It comes down to the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Everyone is not rolling the parakeet build, there are plenty of high level pyros on my server. If hybrid specs are so bad, then swtor should just put in premade specs that you need to choose from. It comes down to the same thing. But that is exactly how they are designing it and balancing it. They're really giving you an illusion of choice. People would be enraged if they were forced into premade specs, but no one complains when they're secretly forced there because all other options are just inferior. Psychology in game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Parakeet still works if you run in combustable cylinder and shuffle some points around. It's not ideal for rated matches, but it is a fantastic pub stomper. And honestly, if you're going to go in rated games anyway it seems to me iron fist would be more viable for the role that parakeet would fill. It's obvious they're trying to eliminate the build, but they went about it the wrong way. Trust me, the build is way stronger in solo-que games in combustable. I've been saying it this whole time. *edit*http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMhrkMboZ0MZfhMrzh.1 Run in combustable. High, consistent damage. The two downsides of this build is I'm not sure how the nerf to PPA will affect the viability (that change might kill this spec, we'll have to see) and you don't get big numbers. Perks are obvious: extremely high mobility, extremely high utility, High damage, moderately more tankier than your average DPSer outside of cooldowns. The utility and mobility are what sell this build for me, and it makes for a great skirmisher in warzones. I usually top the damage meters with this build and have amazing utility in games like huttball. Edited March 30, 2012 by Scoobings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacengotpwned Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Parakeet still works if you run in combustable cylinder and shuffle some points around. It's not ideal for rated matches, but it is a fantastic pub stomper. And honestly, if you're going to go in rated games anyway it seems to me iron fist would be more viable for the role that parakeet would fill. It's obvious they're trying to eliminate the build, but they went about it the wrong way. Trust me, the build is way stronger in solo-que games in combustable. I've been saying it this whole time. *edit* http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GMhrkMboZ0MZfhMrzh.1 Run in combustable. High, consistent damage. The two downsides of this build is I'm not sure how the nerf to PPA will affect the viability (that change might kill this spec, we'll have to see) and you don't get big numbers. Perks are obvious: extremely high mobility, extremely high utility, High damage, moderately more tankier than your average DPSer outside of cooldowns. The utility and mobility are what sell this build for me, and it makes for a great skirmisher in warzones. I usually top the damage meters with this build and have amazing utility in games like huttball. You do make a good point about solo queing but living without guard is something that I and many other powertechs cannot/will not do. It may not be a big deal for solo queing but in groups, guard is invaluable for keeping your teammates alive. It is not viable to switch back and forth between stances mid combat with the interruptable channel times. One of the biggest draws of the parakeet build is being able to guard while still doing somewhat decent damage. Also, the iron fist build, while good, has inferior burst ability to parakeet and therefore is not as fitting of a spec for the primary role of a guarding powertech player in a group, protecting the healer. Edited March 30, 2012 by jacengotpwned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobings Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 You do make a good point about solo queing but living without guard is something that I and many other powertechs cannot/will not do. It may not be a big deal for solo queing but in groups, guard is invaluable for keeping your teammates alive. It is not viable to switch back and forth between stances mid combat with the interruptable channel times. One of the biggest draws of the parakeet build is being able to guard while still doing somewhat decent damage. Also, the iron fist build, while good, has inferior burst ability to parakeet and therefore is not as fitting of a spec for the primary role of a guarding powertech player in a group, protecting the healer. Yeah, that's why this build is really only a pub stomping build. I wouldn't run this if I were to go into a rated match with an organized team. Unless there were 2 other tanks already that is. For me the draw to parakeet was always about the utility + DPS. This patch will be the death of parakeet as a tanking build, that's for sure, but the build continues to survive as a DPS build that has the capability of throwing the occasional guard in really tight spots if you need to. Plus you still have your taunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacengotpwned Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yeah, that's why this build is really only a pub stomping build. I wouldn't run this if I were to go into a rated match with an organized team. Unless there were 2 other tanks already that is. For me the draw to parakeet was always about the utility + DPS. This patch will be the death of parakeet as a tanking build, that's for sure, but the build continues to survive as a DPS build that has the capability of throwing the occasional guard in really tight spots if you need to. Plus you still have your taunts. I'm not dissing your build. It just serves a different purpose than the original intent of the Carolina Parakeet build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourTwent Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Isn't a parakeet a bird? I do not follow this thread. I'm assuming the name for that build was the 'Carolina Parakeet' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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