How do you beat a Vanguard?

[jitsuo]

no, what im saying is that in wzs getting a 1v1 with a merc is not easy unless the merc is either an idiot or you are ignoring objectives/not playing the role you should be playing considering your class......or if his team are a bunch of jerks who left him to solo defend a node.

 

ill admit that 1v1 mercs are pretty weak, but unless you are a stealth class 1v1 means nothing to objective pvp.

 

i much rather fight a merc than a mara, shadow, or op.

 

Lone defender, or them on a ramp hitting the group from above. Even in a cluster of guys we can have a mini 1v1 with little interruption.

 

You're assuming I'm hitting them when they're surrounded and it's just me, that's stupid. If they're freecasting into a group, you'll bet that I'm gonna jump to take them out.

[Varicite]

no, what im saying is that in wzs getting a 1v1 with a merc is not easy unless the merc is either an idiot or you are ignoring objectives/not playing the role you should be playing considering your class.

 

ill admit that 1v1 mercs are pretty weak, but unless you are a stealth class 1v1 means nothing to objective pvp.

 

I get them in 1v1s all the time as a Pyro PT. An Aresenal Merc raining terror unmolested on my group hinders objectives pretty greatly. It's one of the greatest classes for controlling mid in Huttball (and this is the hardest place to dislodge them) as well as keeping classes at bay in Voidstar. The Huttball bridge is actually the only place where I will use my Grapple to begin the fight, and it's usually a losing battle if I do that, but I can count on my team to kill them before they get back to their "godspot".

 

The thing about a Pyro PT is this: You don't get a choice in who you fight, most times, unless you're just coming from the respawn. You have no defenses, and you have no escapes. You either fight, or you die.

 

Mercs are one of those classes that once they engage you, you have less than 1 gcd to decide whether you're going to fight or run. Running usually results in death.

 

Fighting usually results in victory. : )

 

You are right, though, that in team-based PvP, 1v1 is not the measure of a class' strength at all. A Merc is easy to kill, but a Merc supported by smart players is a scary thing. I think that's how it should be, though.

 

If they're freecasting into a group, you'll bet that I'm gonna jump to take them out.

 

This, exactly. After tanks and healers, heavy nukers like Mercs are my second priority.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Varicite

[jitsuo]

i much rather fight a merc than a mara, shadow, or op. ill usually win the fight with 30-40% hp, although next patch who knows seeing how pyro pt dps will plummet. although if the AP changes pan out, then that will be even worse for mercs

 

from what I've heard, their DPS stays the same but they need to spread out their abilities more, which is good. 1 button spam is mindless and interrupts killed them far too easily.

[Ryotknife]

from what I've heard, their DPS stays the same but they need to spread out their abilities more, which is good. 1 button spam is mindless and interrupts killed them far too easily.

 

are we talking about pts having their damage spread out, or mercs?

[jitsuo]

are we talking about pts having their damage spread out, or mercs?

 

Mercs. From what I've heard on the PTS forums and merc forums, Mercs that use other abilities (ones that have been buffed) will have the same DPS, they just have to press more than one button

[Varicite]

Mercs. From what I've heard on the PTS forums and merc forums, Mercs that use other abilities (ones that have been buffed) will have the same DPS, they just have to press more than one button

 

As I understood it, Mercs already used more than one button. The mechanic that makes them stack heat signatures hasn't gone away, has it?

 

Having to spam Tracer to stack the buff/debuff is what gives them the illusion of only using one button. Well, besides those guys who actually do sit there and cast Tracer x10 in PvP (yeah, I've seen you guys), but they are going to be bad at whatever class they play.

[TheNegotiator]

Like I've stated, Marauder and PT.

 

Easy, EASY kills. They're killable when I'm half cent and they're full champ. When I first started PvPing I would get my Assassin medals off them. Now I go after them because, unchecked, they wreak havoc. When targeted, they cause as much trouble as a trash mob.

 

The only things you have told me give you trouble are EASILY interruptable abilities. Mercs have very little mitigation (lol heavy armor) and their heals are lackluster when casted. Mercs are good team specs, the worst 1v1 spec because any class can beat them.

 

If you disagree, I know exactly what kind of player you are

 

So where do you get all this experience fighting mercs? In war zones? How many war zones pit Empire vs. Empire? 1/20? Also, I've already told you why you can't interrupt TM, because it's on a 1.5 second refresh...the merc will fire off 2 missiles before your interrupt refreshes. I'm pretty much having to explain the mechanics too you, probably because you never really go after mercs 1vs1 and you just say you do.

[jitsuo]

So where do you get all this experience fighting mercs? In war zones? How many war zones pit Empire vs. Empire? 1/20? Also, I've already told you why you can't interrupt TM, because it's on a 1.5 second refresh...the merc will fire off 2 missiles before your interrupt refreshes. I'm pretty much having to explain the mechanics too you, probably because you never really go after mercs 1vs1 and you just say you do.

 

Huttball happend 8/10 matches, so I go against Empire vs. Empire more than I see pubs.

 

Get on The Constant, anyone on there will confirm. And why does it matter that it's mercs. Commandos are the SAME THING.

 

I've already told you that you need to use stuns to stop it every time as a PT. It's extremely simple to kill them within 5 interupted TMs.

 

Getting hit with 1 TM isn't a problem. If you cycle interrupts and stuns, he won't be able tog get a second one off until the debuff wears off.

 

As a Marauder I can do this

 

Int->Charge->Int->Mez->int->stun->int->charge

 

I can also use Force Camo as either an interrupt or a gap closer. Mercs are more than easy, they're LAUGHABLY easy on my Marauder.

 

On my Marauder I have a 6 second interrupt so they can't do ANYTHING to stop me. Sounds like YOU're the one that needs mechanics explained , because you don't seem to understand what you're saying. You need to learn class mechanics.

Edited April 1, 2012 by jitsuo

[Chewdatbacker]

So where do you get all this experience fighting mercs? In war zones? How many war zones pit Empire vs. Empire? 1/20?

 

LMAO this is where I stopped taking you seriously. You obviously don't know that all Imps play is Huttball, Imp v. Imp. Secondly, I don't think you understand how interupt works, or anything else in this game for that matter. Please, I'm actually begging you, just uninstall this game because you will never, EVER, succeed in PvP. In fact, you are so terrible with the mechanics in this game, you probably would fail in PvE. There is literally no hope for your skills. Just go.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Chewdatbacker

[jitsuo]

lmao this is where i stopped taking you seriously. You obviously don't know that all imps play is huttball, imp v. Imp. Secondly, i don't think you understand how interupt works, or anything else in this game for that matter. Please, i'm actually begging you, just uninstall this game because you will never, ever, in pvp. In fact, you are so terrible with the mechanics in this game, you probably would fail in pve. There is literally no hope for your skills. Just go.

 

qft...

 

EDIT: Considering you have a post saying 3 people focused a Sorcerer and couldn't kill him whilst using interrupts when I can kill a healing Sorcerer alone with my Marauder shows me exactly how you are at this game.

Edited April 1, 2012 by jitsuo

[Varicite]

So where do you get all this experience fighting mercs? In war zones? How many war zones pit Empire vs. Empire? 1/20? Also, I've already told you why you can't interrupt TM, because it's on a 1.5 second refresh...the merc will fire off 2 missiles before your interrupt refreshes. I'm pretty much having to explain the mechanics too you, probably because you never really go after mercs 1vs1 and you just say you do.

 

You don't really seem to understand how your interrupt works, or that you can chain your stuns between them to stop TM when your interrupt is on cooldown.

 

Because of this, you will probably never beat an Arsenal Merc, unless you try to understand your class a bit better and stop arguing w/ the people who are actually giving you good advice.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Meluna

[TheNegotiator]

Huttball happend 8/10 matches, so I go against Empire vs. Empire more than I see pubs.

 

I've already told you that you need to use stuns to stop it every time as a PT. It's extremely simple to kill them within 5 interupted TMs.

 

Getting hit with 1 TM isn't a problem. If you cycle interrupts and stuns, he won't be able tog get a second one off until the debuff wears off.

 

 

Stuns are not going to help a Vanguard for much, and that's what this thread is about...Vanguards. We get a 2.5 sec stun and a 4 second cryo, both which break on damage. So they are only a minor annoyance to the Merc, because they are short term and will break when you hit him. When you burn your two stuns, you are only left with a 6 second refresh riot strike to interrupt his missiles. Any Merc with half a brain will spam you with missiles and watch you melt. Have fun watching yourself die as the 3000 pt. crits roll by. I'm sure any Merc can back be up on this.

[TheNegotiator]

You don't really seem to understand how your interrupt works, or that you can chain your stuns between them to stop TM when your interrupt is on cooldown.

 

Because of this, you will probably never beat an Arsenal Merc, unless you try to understand your class a bit better and stop arguing w/ the people who are actually giving you good advice.

 

They have a term for people who do that, y'know.

 

TM refresh = 1.5 seconds

Riot Strike refresh = 6 seconds (unless you buy tactics points to make it 4)

 

You cannot interrupt all his missiles. Vanguard stuns are near worthless in PVP as they break on damage and are only usable once per fight. Eventually he is going to kill you.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Meluna
insult

[jitsuo]

Stuns are not going to help a Vanguard for much, and that's what this thread is about...Vanguards. We get a 2.5 sec stun and a 4 second cryo, both which break on damage. So they are only a minor annoyance to the Merc, because they are short term and will break when you hit him. When you burn your two stuns, you are only left with a 6 second refresh riot strike to interrupt his missiles. Any Merc with half a brain will spam you with missiles and watch you melt. Have fun watching yourself die as the 3000 pt. crits roll by. I'm sure any Merc can back be up on this.

 

 

TM refresh = 1.5 seconds

Riot Strike refresh = 6 seconds (unless you buy tactics points to make it 4)

 

You cannot interrupt all his missiles. Vanguard stuns are near worthless in PVP as they break on damage and are only usable once per fight. Eventually he is going to kill you.

 

 

If this is true, why can I (and every other class) as a PT beat Mercs easily.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/eOJ0YyO/quell

 

Locks out TM for 4 seconds, you need 4 seconds to kill for the Interrupt to refresh

 

STUNS don't break on damage

 

http://blackrabbit2999.blogspot.com/2011/12/swtor-resolve-and-crowd-control-pvp.html

A quote from this:

 

Stun: an ability of a short term duration that prevents a target from taking action regardless of the amount of damage taken

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/aI8lmsH/carbonize

^This Stuns for 2.5 seconds

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9GX16Xs/electro-dart

^This Stuns for 4 seconds

 

So you interrupt a cast. 4 seconds later he begins casting another TM. You let the cast bar fill for another second and you Stun him for 2.5 seconds. .5 seconds later your Interrupt is ready and you hit it again. After the 4 seconds are done, you let him cast TM for another second and cast your 4 second stun. When it ends your interrupt is ready again.

 

5 Interrupts. You have no clue of your class mechanics.

 

After at LEAST 20 uninterrupted seconds of DPS from one of the best burst DPS classes in the game (PT/BG) you can't tell me they'll win. Especially because you can still use your interrupts.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Ellvaan
insult

[Varicite]

TM refresh = 1.5 seconds

Riot Strike refresh = 6 seconds (unless you buy tactics points to make it 4)

 

You cannot interrupt all his missiles. Vanguard stuns are near worthless in PVP as they break on damage and are only usable once per fight. Eventually he is going to kill you.

 

Interrupt cooldown = 8 seconds (6 seconds talented)

Interrupt lockout = 4 seconds

 

You can interrupt > stun > interrupt > stun to deny casting on 4 Tracer Missiles in a row. You can use your gap closer to get back on him if he knocks you away. I explained it in much greater detail twice already in this thread.

 

You can do more damage than he can if he can't cast Tracer Missile.

 

I'm not kidding myself that any of this information will actually sink in, but no one can say that no one ever tried to help you.

 

You just don't want to get better.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Varicite

[fungihoujo]

Step 1- Roll a marauder

 

 

There you go, you now can beat a vanguard.

[TheNegotiator]

If this is true, why can I (and every other class) as a PT beat Mercs easily.

 

 

Locks out TM for 4 seconds, you need 4 seconds to kill for the Interrupt to refresh

 

STUNS don't break on damage

 

So you interrupt a cast. 4 seconds later he begins casting another TM. You let the cast bar fill for another second and you Stun him for 2.5 seconds. .5 seconds later your Interrupt is ready and you hit it again. After the 4 seconds are done, you let him cast TM for another second and cast your 4 second stun. When it ends your interrupt is ready again.

 

5 Interrupts. You have no clue of your class mechanics.

 

After at LEAST 20 uninterrupted seconds of DPS from one of the best burst DPS classes in the game (PT/BG) you can't tell me they'll win. Especially because you can still use your interrupts.

 

LOL you're kidding right? . So you do an interrupt and expect him to wait 4 seconds to do anything again? Duh...idiot...what about a power shot, or heat missiles or rail shot during this time? Guess what you can't stop it, and chances are you will use your interrupt on something that is not TM. And all this time you can't do much in the way of damage because you are a Vanguard and the more shooting you do the greater the chance you will miss an interrupt. I won't even mention the fact that most Vanguards don't even buy the faster riot strike, so you are looking at a 6 second delay...not 4. So you run around like an idiot "hoping" to interrupt his attacks while he whoops up on you. And by the way...how are you going to deal withe the knock back? You can probably count on 2 TM's before you get back to him, say hello to a potential 7k damage which should almost kill you by then. I guess the Vanguard will just do his self-heal...oh wait he doesn't get one.

 

So basically, you don't know she-ite because you don't play a Vanguard and it shows.

 

As far as the stun thing goes, in PVE damage breaks stuns, I did not know that changes for PVP. So yeah I will give you credit for that one but you're still a FHP.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Ellvaan
Quoted removed content

[jitsuo]

LOL you're kidding right? . So you do an interrupt and expect him to wait 4 seconds to do anything again? Duh...idiot...what about a power shot, or heat missiles or rail shot during this time? Guess what you can't stop it, and chances are you will use your interrupt on something that is not TM. And all this time you can't do much in the way of damage because you are a Vanguard and the more shooting you do the greater the chance you will miss an interrupt. I won't even mention the fact that most Vanguards don't even buy the faster riot strike, so you are looking at a 6 second delay...not 4. So you run around like an idiot "hoping" to interrupt his attacks while he whoops up on you. And by the way...how are you going to deal withe the knock back? You can probably count on 2 TM's before you get back to him, say hello to a potential 7k damage which should almost kill you by then. I guess the Vanguard will just do his self-heal...oh wait he doesn't get one.

 

So basically, you don't know she-ite because you don't play a Vanguard and it shows.

 

As far as the stun thing goes, in PVE damage breaks stuns, I did not know that changes for PVP. So yeah I will give you credit for that one but you're still a FHP.

 

You do an interrupt and he is locked out of TM for 4 seconds, the CD on the interrupt in 8 seconds. Power shot is nothing compared to your Thermal Detonator or Rail Shot or even Rocket Punch (Vanguard equivalent).

 

If you're interrupting anything besides TM, you're playing stupidly. If you miss an interrupt because you're DPSing, you're EXTREMELY stupid. It is a 4 second delay no matter what, as it says on the torhead ability counter.

 

The knockback is dealt with by using Grapple.

 

I play a Vanguard, I also PvP with one all the time. I guarantee you can't say the same. If you interrupt Tracer Missle, you can do more damage to him than he can do to you?.

 

How do I know this?

 

Because I do it every time I face a Merc or Commando. When one or both of my stuns are on CD I can still win most of the time.

 

Your arguments talk like Vanguards don't do any damage while interrupting, but in reality a VG does more damage than most in PvP. My Rail Shot does more damage than TM ever can, same with my Thermal Detonator. Rocket Punch can equal the damage and Flame Burst is no joke. Without TM a Merc can't hope to beat me in a DPS race

 

If he's using Heet Seeking Missles without any stacks of TM on me, which he won't have due to my interrupts, he's losing DPS. The only move that hits hard when TM is interrupted is Unload/Full Auto and, with me interrupting his TMs, it's severly gimped without his proc.

 

Face it, you're terrible if you lose to a Merc. You haven't shown me any way that a Merc could beat you besides you telling me that you don't know how stuns work, how interrupts work, or how to restrain yourself from not interrupting useless skills.

 

You probably waste the interrupt on their Flamethrower/Pulse Cannon.

 

EDIT: Hey, you obviously have problems with Mercs, I'm trying to tell you how to beat them easily. If you don't wanna take the advice, that's fine, I'll just destroy you if I ever meet you in the WZs. If you can't kill an Arsenal Merc, you shouldn't be able to kill anything that you don't have a 50% health handicap on.

Edited April 1, 2012 by jitsuo

[Astarica]

I noticed there's a trend to say Arsenal Mercs are weak as if that makes you good or something.

 

Mercs are not hard to beat but they're still a very strong class in WZ. I don't know where this '1on1' thing comes from because Mercs don't 1on1 against most people anyway. As a ranged class they're usually the guys hanging out way in the back. Especially for a class without stealth this means you absolutely will get pummeled by TM if they decide to hit you first, and you can't leap to counter that because then you get hard countered by a Jet Boost.

 

The problem is if you attempt to run up to a Merc, by the virtue of being the furthest back, you're likely to be intercepted by any number of powerful melee classes. In the case of PT, you might get intercepted by guys who are your hard counters and never get to the Merc. Darkness Assassin, in particular, have great abilities to keep any melee off another ranged, and Marauders aren't exactly weak at keeping melees away from other people too.

 

Sometimes you also get the firing squad formation (3-4 ranged DPS just standing in a line shooting at the first guy who comes across). In such a situation even a Darkness Assassin would take a ton of beating to hit one let alone any class with less defenses (i.e. everyone else). Now of course Grapple does take care of the hiding in the back issue, except Grappling a Merc is a very bad idea in Huttball, precisely because Mercs are pretty much useless for ball running in Huttball, which means you wasted your best defensive CC on a guy who can never score. In Alderran/Voidstar, grappling works fine but for Empire players, Huttball easily outweighs the other two maps combined and you just can't waste grapple a class that cannot score if the game is at all close.

 

It's kind of ironic that grappling Sorcerers is a perfectly good use for a Grapple (because Sorcs can score), but you should never grapple a Merc on Huttball which helps them avoid the most devastating ability against their class.

[jitsuo]

I noticed there's a trend to say Arsenal Mercs are weak as if that makes you good or something.

 

Mercs are not hard to beat but they're still a very strong class in WZ. I don't know where this '1on1' thing comes from because Mercs don't 1on1 against most people anyway. As a ranged class they're usually the guys hanging out way in the back. Especially for a class without stealth this means you absolutely will get pummeled by TM if they decide to hit you first, and you can't leap to counter that because then you get hard countered by a Jet Boost.

 

I agree with the fact that Mercs are face melters if unfocused. Problem is that they're VERY easy to counter if you focus them. If they're on a ramp then I will Charge to them and position myself for the KB. Once the KB comes then I will Force Cloak back to them. The Rocket Punch knock back concerns me very little, 80% of the time I can make it back in time to interrupt their Grav/TM. I wouldn't fight a TM-er and have his 3 friends intercept me because I wouldn't Charge 4 people by myself With my team vs. his team, I will either pick a healer or a Grav/TM-er to shut down. If someone already has one, I will get the other.

[upzie]

Qustion

How do you beat a Vanguard?

 

Answer

Reduce their HP pool enough so that they die.

[Astarica]

I agree with the fact that Mercs are face melters if unfocused. Problem is that they're VERY easy to counter if you focus them. If they're on a ramp then I will Charge to them and position myself for the KB. Once the KB comes then I will Force Cloak back to them. The Rocket Punch knock back concerns me very little, 80% of the time I can make it back in time to interrupt their Grav/TM. I wouldn't fight a TM-er and have his 3 friends intercept me because I wouldn't Charge 4 people by myself With my team vs. his team, I will either pick a healer or a Grav/TM-er to shut down. If someone already has one, I will get the other.

 

If you're talking about the Huttball ramp there's usually very little space you can hide from the KB. I know it's possible but it's just not something that can be reilably done. Not every location has the sandbags or whatever those things that stop you from falling down.

 

The problem with Merc is that TM synergize well with every other class. Say you're a Marauder, you run toward a Merc. He fires 2 TMs on you as you're running in (this is pretty optimistic if you didn't charge), which is okay, except another Marauder saw you on the way in so he charges and roots you. Now you probably eat 2 more TMs before you get out of the root, not to mention your mirror match is fighting you with a 20% armor debuff, so the enemy should be able to win comfortably if this started out as an even fight. Having 4 stacks of TM (2 missiles) pretty much swings a normally 50/50 fight to at least 60/40 (you're pretty much taking 10% more damage from anyone) so the enemy team might as well protect the Arsenal Merc just because those 4-5 stacks of TM really makes life a lot easier for anyone else too.

 

Mercs aren't strong because they're a good 1v1 class (they're not). They're strong because they're a very strong class in virtually any kind of group fights. As a Darkness Assassin 5 stacks of Tracers bothers me the most compared to any other debuff, not because I'm in danger of losing to a Merc (can beat them rather comfortably), but that a Marauder or a mirror match will definitely beat me if I start down 25% armor. Now if you do get them 1on1, of course you should kill them ASAP. They're pretty helpless without help, but the fact TM stacks makes the recipient an easy kill means you're likely to see a lot of people coming to *help* just so that they can get an easy kill.

[jitsuo]

If you're talking about the Huttball ramp there's usually very little space you can hide from the KB. I know it's possible but it's just not something that can be reilably done. Not every location has the sandbags or whatever those things that stop you from falling down.

 

The problem with Merc is that TM synergize well with every other class. Say you're a Marauder, you run toward a Merc. He fires 2 TMs on you as you're running in (this is pretty optimistic if you didn't charge), which is okay, except another Marauder saw you on the way in so he charges and roots you. Now you probably eat 2 more TMs before you get out of the root, not to mention your mirror match is fighting you with a 20% armor debuff, so the enemy should be able to win comfortably if this started out as an even fight. Having 4 stacks of TM (2 missiles) pretty much swings a normally 50/50 fight to at least 60/40 (you're pretty much taking 10% more damage from anyone) so the enemy team might as well protect the Arsenal Merc just because those 4-5 stacks of TM really makes life a lot easier for anyone else too.

 

Mercs aren't strong because they're a good 1v1 class (they're not). They're strong because they're a very strong class in virtually any kind of group fights. As a Darkness Assassin 5 stacks of Tracers bothers me the most compared to any other debuff, not because I'm in danger of losing to a Merc (can beat them rather comfortably), but that a Marauder or a mirror match will definitely beat me if I start down 25% armor. Now if you do get them 1on1, of course you should kill them ASAP. They're pretty helpless without help, but the fact TM stacks makes the recipient an easy kill means you're likely to see a lot of people coming to *help* just so that they can get an easy kill.

 

The problem is that you're assuming he's going to 2v1 you every time. If I'm igoing after a TM-er in a group fight, I'm not gonna wade through the group and I'm bringing a friend. If he's casting a TM when I go in, I will probably Charge just because it's on a 12s CD. Usually by the 2nd KB if charge isn't back, it has a small amount of time. If I'm knocked off a ramp then I LOS until charge is back, if Charge isn't back then I can walk back and take him out.

Edited April 2, 2012 by jitsuo

[Astarica]

The problem is that you're assuming he's going to 2v1 you every time. If I'm igoing after a TM-er in a group fight, I'm not gonna wade through the group and I'm bringing a friend. If he's casting a TM when I go in, I will probably Charge just because it's on a 12s CD. Usually by the 2nd KB if charge isn't back, it has a small amount of time. If I'm knocked off a ramp then I LOS until charge is back, if Charge isn't back then I can walk back and take him out.

 

Help doesn't necessarily imply 2on1.

 

Let's say your side is Merc + Marauder, other side is Sorc + Marauder.

 

Merc shoots 2 missiles on the enemy Merc, does 2K damage.

 

Sorc shoots 2 FLs on enemy Merc, does 2K damage (even though this requires 6 seconds, we'll just pretend they're the same).

 

Merc's side's Marauder charge roots the Sorc's side Marauder. Now from a damage point of view both side are exactly equal. There's several scenario this can play out.

 

If the two Marauder start fighting it out in the middle, with both ranged class assisting their Marauder, then the Merc side will win because Mercs do more damage than Sorc when left alone, not to mention the Sorc's side Merc starts with an armor debuff.

 

If the Marauders just run past each other after the root to kill the ranged class, both Marauders generally can kill whoever they're fighting fine. Usually, it takes less time for a Marauder to kill a Sorc than a Merc, but we'll assume both finish their ranged at the same time while taking identical damage. However, if the Merc manages to refresh the tracer stacks, then the Sorc side now starts the Marauder versus Marauder match with 5 stacks of TM (he started with 4, so if it refreshed at all he must have 5), giving a considerable edge to the Merc side's Marauder.

 

For any other class if they get 2 GCDs on you, you take say 2K damage but that's it. There's no lingering effect that weakens you as a result of those 2 GCDs. But 2 TMs do 2K damage and make you take about +10% damage, so it's going to hurt you more than any other attack that does 2K. Thus, from the enemy's point of view, they might as well attack whoever has the TM stacks on because it's an easy kill, and this would indirectly protect the Merc.

 

TM stacks are really a silent killer. They can kill you even after the Merc is dead since they're powerful enough to swing a fight you could've won into a loss against someone else. That's why I consider them strong. If just going by kills/deaths, there's nothing very special about Mercs.

[jitsuo]

Help doesn't necessarily imply 2on1.

 

Let's say your side is Merc + Marauder, other side is Sorc + Marauder.

 

Merc shoots 2 missiles on the enemy Merc, does 2K damage.

 

Sorc shoots 2 FLs on enemy Merc, does 2K damage (even though this requires 6 seconds, we'll just pretend they're the same).

 

Merc's side's Marauder charge roots the Sorc's side Marauder. Now from a damage point of view both side are exactly equal. There's several scenario this can play out.

 

If the two Marauder start fighting it out in the middle, with both ranged class assisting their Marauder, then the Merc side will win because Mercs do more damage than Sorc when left alone, not to mention the Sorc's side Merc starts with an armor debuff.

 

If the Marauders just run past each other after the root to kill the ranged class, both Marauders generally can kill whoever they're fighting fine. Usually, it takes less time for a Marauder to kill a Sorc than a Merc, but we'll assume both finish their ranged at the same time while taking identical damage. However, if the Merc manages to refresh the tracer stacks, then the Sorc side now starts the Marauder versus Marauder match with 5 stacks of TM (he started with 4, so if it refreshed at all he must have 5), giving a considerable edge to the Merc side's Marauder.

 

For any other class if they get 2 GCDs on you, you take say 2K damage but that's it. There's no lingering effect that weakens you as a result of those 2 GCDs. But 2 TMs do 2K damage and make you take about +10% damage, so it's going to hurt you more than any other attack that does 2K. Thus, from the enemy's point of view, they might as well attack whoever has the TM stacks on because it's an easy kill, and this would indirectly protect the Merc.

 

TM stacks are really a silent killer. They can kill you even after the Merc is dead since they're powerful enough to swing a fight you could've won into a loss against someone else. That's why I consider them strong. If just going by kills/deaths, there's nothing very special about Mercs.

 

Interesting argument, but I counter with this example.

 

Marauder/Sorc vs. Marauder/Merc Sorc is Hybrid and Merc is Arsenal, Maras are both Anni

 

The Marauders focus first on the ranged dealers (squishiest classes die the fastest). The first Marauder eats 2 TMs as he moves in and interrupts the 3rd one, 2nd Marauder eats a full channeled FL and a Crushing Darkness.

 

KBs come from both sides. The Mara on the TM-er Charges back instantly and the Mara on the Sorcerer is stuck rooted while the Sorcerer channels another FL into him, the Marauder then Charges to interrupt the last tick.

 

Merc uses the 2nd KB, Mara Force Camos back to him and continues DPS. Sorcerer Insta-WW's---->stun at the end, Force Speeds away, and kites with his slow, attacking with Shock, CL(if Wrath procced), Affliction, and Death Field.

 

By the time the Mara on the Sorcerer gets back to the Sorcerer, the Merc should be close to dead, his stacks of TM falling off, and had most of his damage neutralized

 

The problem with Mercs is that they have NO mobility. Their damage is all cast times. They have TM, which is easily interrupted, and no mobility so they cannot keep a class "busy"

Edited April 2, 2012 by jitsuo