I don't have any problems with any class in PvP

[Zaodon]

When I PvP, I can beat, and get beaten by, any class in the entire game, while playing any class in the entire game. There is no, single class which is OP, or can beat me 100% of the time, or even the majority of the time, nor is there a class I can beat 100% or the majority of the time.

 

Every fight I engage in is either an "opportunistic fight" (i.e. they get jump on me or I get jump on them), or the extremely rare "straight up 1v1". In both cases, opportunistic or 1v1, I can win or lose based on whether I play better than them, or they play better than me, REGARDLESS of what class I'm on, or what class they are on.

 

I have never, ever, ever encountered an OP class in SWTOR, since open beta, not even pre-nerf Scoundrel/Operatives with buff stacking.

 

Anyone who claims that a class is OP (even tracer-missile spamming, pre-1.2 nerf) is simply a bad player. Period.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zaodon

[Varicite]

What is the point of a thread that is ended in the OP?

[Proppa]

It's not that tracer spam is op'd, its just a low skill level class, who if they can only spam 1 ability and succeed something is wrong. Most other classes require a cycle to be efficient.

[Zaodon]

What is the point of a thread that is ended in the OP?

 

fixed

[Xienive]

]When I PvP, I can beat, and get beaten by, any class in the entire game, while playing any class in the entire game. There is no, single class which is OP, or can beat me 100% of the time, or even the majority of the time, nor is there a class I can beat 100% or the majority of the time.

 

Every fight I engage in is either an "opportunistic fight" (i.e. they get jump on me or I get jump on them), or the extremely rare "straight up 1v1". In both cases, opportunistic or 1v1, I can win or lose based on whether I play better than them, or they play better than me, REGARDLESS of what class I'm on, or what class they are on.

 

I have never, ever, ever encountered an OP class in SWTOR, since open beta, not even pre-nerf Scoundrel/Operatives with buff stacking.

 

Anyone who claims that a class is OP (even tracer-missile spamming, pre-1.2 nerf) is simply a bad player. Period.

 

/thread

 

This is the truth about PVP, but it's the one nobody wants to realistically admit.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Xienive

[exphryl]

You talking about 1v1?

 

Because I pretty much 100% am Guaranteed to beat any Sorc easily if both HP pools are at 100%. Don't even need to use cooldowns. Sorcs need a buff, they are terrible.

[Zaodon]

You talking about 1v1?

 

Because I pretty much 100% am Guaranteed to beat any Sorc easily if both HP pools are at 100%. Don't even need to use cooldowns. Sorcs need a buff, they are terrible.

 

I am able to beat Pyrotechs on my Sorc. It depends on their skill.

 

I do agree Sorcs are a little light on DPS, though. Just my opinion.

[Varicite]

I am able to beat Pyrotechs on my Sorc. It depends on their skill.

 

I do agree Sorcs are a little light on DPS, though. Just my opinion.

 

I spec into the 6 second interrupt just for Sorcs like you. : )

 

Also, much better, and I agree. I don't beat everyone, but I don't think that I should, so that seems fine to me.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Varicite

[physiology]

When I lose, I accuse other classes of being overpowered to protect my ego.

[AetherMcLoud]

When I lose, I accuse other classes of being overpowered to protect my ego.

 

This.

 

Classes are extremely well balanced here for a game that is only out for 3 month. Compare that to the rollercoaster balance that 7 years of WoW was...

 

I lose against better players than me and win against lesser players. Gear difference obviously also does it's thing but the classes all have a chance against each other.

 

Ops/Scoundrels should get a gap closer though.

[Zaodon]

I spec into the 6 second interrupt just for Sorcs like you. : )

 

Also, much better, and I agree. I don't beat everyone, but I don't think that I should, so that seems fine to me.

 

I use only 1 casted/channeled ability to dps (rest are instant), and I am not heal-specced, so I don't rely on them too much. (I play like a ranged DPS class, and if I get a heal off, its really just a bonus).

 

I am designed to beat "interrupt heavy" classes.

 

But, I don't want to degenerate the thread. I get beat LOTS by Pyrotech, its just their nature to be a sage killer. But I absolutely destroy poorly, or even average-ly, played BHs. Good BHs beat me plenty of times.

 

Too many people look at the classes as rock-paper-scissors. I look at it like variable chess pieces. You may be a "queen" class in relation to my "pawn" class, but I can still take you out if you F up. And the next fight I'm in, I might be the "queen" class and my opponent might be the "pawn" class, and I better not F up.

[Varicite]

I use only 1 casted/channeled ability to dps (rest are instant), and I am not heal-specced, so I don't rely on them too much. (I play like a ranged DPS class, and if I get a heal off, its really just a bonus).

 

I am designed to beat "interrupt heavy" classes.

 

But, I don't want to degenerate the thread. I get beat LOTS by Pyrotech, its just their nature to be a sage killer. But I absolutely destroy poorly, or even average-ly, played BHs. Good BHs beat me plenty of times.

 

Too many people look at the classes as rock-paper-scissors. I look at it like variable chess pieces. You may be a "queen" class in relation to my "pawn" class, but I can still take you out if you F up. And the next fight I'm in, I might be the "queen" class and my opponent might be the "pawn" class, and I better not F up.

 

I like your style. : )

 

I do feel the game is pretty balanced. I may poke fun at classes that are worse at 1v1 sometimes, but in reality those classes excel in group play, so I feel even that is a fair tradeoff.

 

A Sorc may fall 1v1, but they can usually kite well enough to get attackers to their group before they die. If their group is paying attention, that's enough to keep a Sorc alive and decimate tunnel-visioning DPS swallowed by the defenders.

[Zaodon]

I like your style. : )

 

I do feel the game is pretty balanced. I may poke fun at classes that are worse at 1v1 sometimes, but in reality those classes excel in group play, so I feel even that is a fair tradeoff.

 

A Sorc may fall 1v1, but they can usually kite well enough to get attackers to their group before they die. If their group is paying attention, that's enough to keep a Sorc alive and decimate tunnel-visioning DPS swallowed by the defenders.

 

I remember an old Star Trek: Next Gen episode where Data was getting his *** beat in some strategy game against this alien guy. No matter what Data did, he could not beat this guy. Data finally realizes his flaw - trying to win - and changes tactics. Data plays for a stalemate, and the guy cannot beat Data because Data never makes a move to win. The alien eventually just gives up.

 

That is how I play my Sage in group pvp against a class which is hard to beat. As you say, survive, and kite them into my teammates, while wearing a big sign "I'm a weak Sage, come kill me!!1!!one!" Works every time.

[shazariahl]

When I PvP, I can beat, and get beaten by, any class in the entire game, while playing any class in the entire game. There is no, single class which is OP, or can beat me 100% of the time, or even the majority of the time, nor is there a class I can beat 100% or the majority of the time.

 

Every fight I engage in is either an "opportunistic fight" (i.e. they get jump on me or I get jump on them), or the extremely rare "straight up 1v1". In both cases, opportunistic or 1v1, I can win or lose based on whether I play better than them, or they play better than me, REGARDLESS of what class I'm on, or what class they are on.

 

I have never, ever, ever encountered an OP class in SWTOR, since open beta, not even pre-nerf Scoundrel/Operatives with buff stacking.

 

Anyone who claims that a class is OP (even tracer-missile spamming, pre-1.2 nerf) is simply a bad player. Period.

 

I completely agree. I actually think this is the best balanced MMO I've ever played, especially given that it's only been out for 3 or 4 months.

[Ancient_karp]

Ability to beat another class 1v1 depends on too many factors to oversimplify it in this way. Are your cooldowns up? Are theirs? Do you have a stim and adrenaline boost up? Did you have a relic up? Are you starting at range?

 

I agree that the game did a very good job of balancing classes, but many are more dependent on cooldowns than others. If you're going to do a 1v1 comparison, let's at least compare 1v1 ability over a 5 or 10 min window. Some classes can still shine without their timers up. My operative, for example, is significantly less effective when timers are down as compared to a sage or assassin.

 

Just a thought.

[Zaodon]

Ability to beat another class 1v1 depends on too many factors to oversimplify it in this way. Are your cooldowns up? Are theirs? Do you have a stim and adrenaline boost up? Did you have a relic up? Are you starting at range?

 

I agree that the game did a very good job of balancing classes, but many are more dependent on cooldowns than others. If you're going to do a 1v1 comparison, let's at least compare 1v1 ability over a 5 or 10 min window. Some classes can still shine without their timers up. My operative, for example, is significantly less effective when timers are down as compared to a sage or assassin.

 

Just a thought.

 

Yeah, I already covered all that in the OP when I used the terms "opportunistic" vs "straight up 1v1". "Opportunistic" covers every single fight you have in SWTOR PvP except for the rare exception that you and your opponent are both 100% fresh and completely alone. i.e. fights that rarely, if EVER, happen.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zaodon

[Sixthy]

Anytime I lose, especially 1v1, I feel like I was out played - not out classed. Edited March 28, 2012 by Sixthy

[Ancient_karp]

Every fight I engage in is either an "opportunistic fight" (i.e. they get jump on me or I get jump on them), or the extremely rare "straight up 1v1". In both cases, opportunistic or 1v1, I can win or lose based on whether I play better than them, or they play better than me, REGARDLESS of what class I'm on, or what class they are on.

 

Having your timers up is not skill-based. If I am a slightly worse player but have my timers up and you don't, I can probably pull out a win. Skill is the dominant factor primarily when other factors are near equal. That was my point and one that you failed to address above. For some classes having timers makes a huge performance difference that can often outshine skill alone.

 

I do agree that this is largely independent of class, which was your primary assertion.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ancient_karp

[Rohlio]

I completely support the sentiment of this thread. I have a merc an assassin and an op all at 50 and a sorc and jugg on the way up.

 

This game has by far the most balanced classes I have seen in a game for pvp. I can and have been beaten by any class and I have most certainly done the same to others.

 

It is actually refreshing to know that I can fill my designated roll with any of the classes I have chosen.

[Zaodon]

Having your timers up is not skill-based. If I am a slightly worse player but have my timers up and you don't, I can probably pull out a win. Skill is the dominant factor primarily when other factors are near equal. That was my point and one that you failed to address above. For some classes having timers makes a huge performance difference that can often outshine skill alone.

 

I do agree that this is largely independent of class, which was your primary assertion.

 

"Skill" is when you are good enough to realize your timers are down and adjust your play accordingly.

 

I have won numerous fights when all my CDs were down, and all my opponents CDs were up.

 

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zaodon

[ShadowOfVey]

This.

 

Classes are extremely well balanced here for a game that is only out for 3 month. Compare that to the rollercoaster balance that 7 years of WoW was...

 

I lose against better players than me and win against lesser players. Gear difference obviously also does it's thing but the classes all have a chance against each other.

 

Ops/Scoundrels should get a gap closer though.

 

This has been my general feeling in pvp as well.

 

I think it is in a pretty good place at the moment. Sure if I had control behind the scenes I would make some tweaks but who wouldn't, and they'd be to give a few classes more options (i.e minor buffs).

 

Also funny enough, even though dps operatives would be a class I'd be looking at giving some minor mobility boost to...I still see several exceptional ones regularly in WZs that perform very well and are a great boon to their team even in huttball. Ditto snipers.

[Nukor]

I agree that the balance issues for the most part seem to be non-existant.

 

I will say though, that playing a merc healer makes me feel invincible some times. I recall one instance in particular where I kited 4 players around the ramps in an Civil War match SOLO and managed to stay alive for 5 minutes doing this while the rest of my team took the other nodes and held off the few attackers that were trickling in.

 

I can't count the times I've had half a Huttball team chase me away from our ball carrier trying to bring me down while my teams runs off and scores a couple times, at which point they leave me alone and go for the ball carrier, but normally it's too late for them to make any kind of effective comeback.

 

I do believe, however, that if these players were playing better, I wouldn't feel like I'm untouchable.

[SlyBandit]

I have to agree, i play a sith jugg and i have no problem in pvp against classes. It really is determined on who is playing the class, and if its the right class choice for them. I do more damage sometimes than most pvpers in certain games. Then in others i don't. Same classes different players.

[Zaodon]

I agree that the balance issues for the most part seem to be non-existant.

 

I will say though, that playing a merc healer makes me feel invincible some times. I recall one instance in particular where I kited 4 players around the ramps in an Civil War match SOLO and managed to stay alive for 5 minutes doing this while the rest of my team took the other nodes and held off the few attackers that were trickling in.

 

I can't count the times I've had half a Huttball team chase me away from our ball carrier trying to bring me down while my teams runs off and scores a couple times, at which point they leave me alone and go for the ball carrier, but normally it's too late for them to make any kind of effective comeback.

 

I do believe, however, that if these players were playing better, I wouldn't feel like I'm untouchable.

 

This kind of story is what leads bad players to call for nerfs, instead of simply understanding that in both cases you describe, those 4 players SUCKED MONKEY BALLS. If they were me + 3 of my guild mates, you would have died in approximately 2 GCDs, maybe 3 tops.

 

You are not overpowered or "invincible", you just are very good, and FREQUENTLY fight against merely "average" opponents. This is what is SUPPOSED to happen when a really good player fights average-to-bad players. By Design!!!

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zaodon

[Orangerascal]

As I sage, I know I have no chance against an equivalently skilled IO or assassin, but you know what ... I'm okay with that. Me E-peen does not shrink and I shrug it off. On my scoundrel I destroy almost every class in 1v1 (powertechs still give me a hard time) ... I'm also okay with that.

 

The game isn't balanced for 1v1 game play and it's okay. My premade does not leave sages guarding alderaan nodes or have scoundrels run huttballs. Most people that whine don't know their intended roll and want the one class that could do everything. In essence the people whining are the ones striving for imbalance ... ironic huh.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Orangerascal