Not nerfing Shadows with 1.2 is a huge mistake.

[AetherMcLoud]

Explain to me why operatives don't have a gap closer and assassins have 2.

 

Only Tankassassins have 2, the DPS ones have 1. And hey I'm a stounch supporter of giving Operatives a gap closer. A melee class without a gap closer is destined to fail. I like the idea of giving them a hookshot that pulls them to their target.

 

Explain why assassins have 2 defensive cooldowns, where operatives have 1.

 

Because they don't? Assassins have Force Shroud and Deflection. Operatives have Evasion and Shield Drone. Again, please stop talking about stuff you have no clue about.

 

Why does assassin CC give less resolve than operative CC?

 

Probably a bug.

 

Not to mention the utility of guard/taunts/speed/pull/etc.

 

Not to mention the utility of having actual castable heals! Or an AOE mesmerize. Or a 30 meter default attack. And other special attack that have 30 meters range.

[Redmarx]

Operatives get two defensive cooldowns. Evasion on a 1 minute cooldown, Shield Probe on a 45 seconds cooldown.

 

I barely notice it when an operative pops that bubble, as far as I can tell it's gone in the same gcd. I would simply not call that a defensive cooldown.

[AetherMcLoud]

I barely notice it when an operative pops that bubble, as far as I can tell it's gone in the same gcd. I would simply not call that a defensive cooldown.

 

So now that your argument is proven completely falls you're falling back to arguing semantics? Do us all a favor and simply stop posting in this thread seeing as you don't contribute any actual content.

[ShadowOfVey]

I think when you see 1.2 hit, you're going to see people rolling plenty of classes of all 4 types, simply to take advantage of the class buff legacy thing upon completing chap 2.

 

I'm sure amongst all the people doing that, some will end up with new mains (hey I actually like this class more than my old main!) within all the classes.

[Redmarx]

So now that your argument is proven completely falls you're falling back to arguing semantics? Do us all a favor and simply stop posting in this thread seeing as you don't contribute any actual content.

 

Are you actually trying to bully someone over the internet to get them to stop posting? Way to go, internet tough guy.

 

Keep trying to defend your overpowered class, the nerfs will come just as they have for others in 1.2, without combat log or rated warzone data.

 

Assassins/shadows are overpowered and need to be brought down in line, the same way as operatives, sorcs, and mercs.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx

[AetherMcLoud]

Keep trying to defend your overpowered class, the nerfs will come just as they have for others in 1.2, without combat log or rated warzone data.

 

Assassins/shadows are overpowered and need to be brought down the same way was operatives, sorcs, and mercs.

 

I don't see any nerfs. Operatives get nerfed. Assassins don't because they don't need nerfing.

 

Simply stating that they are overpowered doesn't make them overpowered. Until now nobody could argue otherwise.

[Krytycal]

I barely notice it when an operative pops that bubble, as far as I can tell it's gone in the same gcd. I would simply not call that a defensive cooldown.

 

It absorbs about ~3K damage and it can be up every other fight thanks to its low cooldown. Deflection provides 50% defense against white damage every 2 minutes. I've used both and I'd take Shield Probe for PvP any day of the week.

 

I recommend you play these classes before you start calling for changes.

[Redmarx]

I don't see any nerfs. Operatives get nerfed. Assassins don't because they don't need nerfing.

 

Simply stating that they are overpowered doesn't make them overpowered. Until now nobody could argue otherwise.

 

Assassins didn't get nerfed in 1.2 - but they will, as you can see the forum whine is strong already.

 

Enjoy being next in line for the nerfbat.

[AetherMcLoud]

Assassins didn't get nerfed in 1.2 - but they will, as you can see the forum whine is strong already.

 

Enjoy being next in line for the nerfbat.

 

The devs already stated that they don't nerf or buff because of forum whines but because of their own data. And them nerfing Ops again shows that they hold that true. Nobody called for more Ops nerfs but they get another one. Some bad players call for Assassin nerfs but they don't get one.

 

Simple as that.

[JackMinn]

I don't see any nerfs. Operatives get nerfed. Assassins don't because they don't need nerfing.

 

Simply stating that they are overpowered doesn't make them overpowered. Until now nobody could argue otherwise.

 

They could and did, and then those posts were over ruled with generic claims of "jack of all trades master of none". At this point it is one persons word over another, either they excel at all aspects or are mediocre. The people who play shadow/assassin as their main say they are mediocre and the people who see it from outside claim they excel at all.

 

No resolution will come out of this thread because a general population of players are not fit to discuss balance together anyways. The rated warzones will speak for themselves on release. Especially when everybody suddenly notices that the best viable dps will be any tank with dps due to their flexibility and utility. The only non tank dps that will survive the presence of rated games will be sentinel/marauder.

 

Once people notice this paradigm the whine will simply be revived.

[Redmarx]

The devs already stated that they don't nerf or buff because of forum whines but because of their own data. And them nerfing Ops again shows that they hold that true. Nobody called for more Ops nerfs but they get another one. Some bad players call for Assassin nerfs but they don't get one.

 

Simple as that.

 

Oh assassins will get one.

 

Operatives, sorcs and mercs got theirs due to forum whines, there are no secret metrics involved here. People still whine about all of them.

 

But not as much as they now whine about those OP assassins.

 

Guess where the nerfbat is going to hit in 1.3.

[BDutch]

Evasion

Instant

Cooldown: 1 minute

Increases your chance to dodge melee and ranged attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

 

Force Shroud

Instant

Cooldown: 1 minute

Removes all hostile removable effects and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

[Redmarx]

The rated warzones will speak for themselves on release. Especially when everybody suddenly notices that the best viable dps will be any tank with dps due to their flexibility and utility.

 

Once people notice this paradigm the whine will simply be revived.

 

This.

[Redmarx]

Evasion

Instant

Cooldown: 1 minute

Increases your chance to dodge melee and ranged attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

 

Force Shroud

Instant

Cooldown: 1 minute

Removes all hostile removable effects and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth.

 

Disjunction

Activating Force Speed now removes all movement-impairing effects, and your Force Shroud now lasts 2 seconds longer.

 

So a

 

- 30s gap closer that breaks roots and snares (on top of 2nd gap closer pull) vs operative 0 gap closers

- a nearly double duration of defensive cd vs operative one (which is also weaker as most heavy damage is tech and force)

 

You can see why both of these need to be nerfed.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx

[BDutch]

Disjunction

Activating Force Speed now removes all movement-impairing effects, and your Force Shroud now lasts 2 seconds longer.

 

Good point. My point was more about the damage types, in response to the comparing "bubbles" comments. The reason an operative bubble doesn't feel as noticeable as the assassin is because it's not blocking the real damaging attacks, the same way that shields aren't super effective in PvP.

[matekwong]

All these post asking for a nerf are so emotional and illogical. Can't you guys defend your points with better proofs? Perhaps Vids? Screenies? Graphs? Population? DPS comparison? etc?

[cycao]

They could and did, and then those posts were over ruled with generic claims of "jack of all trades master of none". At this point it is one persons word over another, either they excel at all aspects or are mediocre. The people who play shadow/assassin as their main say they are mediocre and the people who see it from outside claim they excel at all.

 

No resolution will come out of this thread because a general population of players are not fit to discuss balance together anyways. The rated warzones will speak for themselves on release. Especially when everybody suddenly notices that the best viable dps will be any tank with dps due to their flexibility and utility. The only non tank dps that will survive the presence of rated games will be sentinel/marauder.

 

Once people notice this paradigm the whine will simply be revived.

 

ah some common sense I love it. Yes when rated warzones come out along with combat logs I think a lot of questions will be answered and answers questioned.

[unixbomber]

The devs already stated that they don't nerf or buff because of forum whines but because of their own data.

 

http://i.imgur.com/OOqXz.gif

[Faeldawn]

For the last time...Assassins/Shadows do NOT need a nerf, they need FIXING and BALANCING.

 

If they simply nerf darkness/kinetic then say goodbye to the class as the other spec trees are easily on a par with the weakest specs for any class for warzone style pvp.

 

For rated WZ's anything but Kinetic/Darkness is currently not an option for groups geared for optimum effect because there are other classes and specs that do it better, much better and aren't squishy one-trick ponies.

[SableShadow]

Nobody called for more Ops nerfs

 

Say what? Are we reading the same forum?

Edited March 28, 2012 by SableShadow

[Redmarx]

For the last time...Assassins/Shadows do NOT need a nerf, they need FIXING and BALANCING.

 

If they simply nerf darkness/kinetic then say goodbye to the class as the other spec trees are easily on a par with the weakest specs for any class for warzone style pvp.

 

For rated WZ's anything but Kinetic/Darkness is currently not an option for groups geared for optimum effect because there are other classes and specs that do it better, much better and aren't squishy one-trick ponies.

 

Not true. Operatives are the only other stealth class, and in 1.2 they are much weaker than deception assassins, with less mobility, same damage and weaker defenses.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Redmarx

[anstalt]

Disjunction

Activating Force Speed now removes all movement-impairing effects, and your Force Shroud now lasts 2 seconds longer.

 

So a

 

- 30s gap closer that breaks roots and snares (on top of 2nd gap closer pull) vs operative 0 gap closers

- a nearly double duration of defensive cd vs operative one (which is also weaker as most heavy damage is tech and force)

 

You can see why both of these need to be nerfed.

 

Stupid comparisons are stupid.

 

If you are comparing a tank shadow to an operative, I can think up tons of reasons to nerf ops using your silly reasoning, such as:

 

tank shadows can't burst anywhere near operatives, therefore nerf operatives!

tank shadows can't off-heal, remove all healing abilities from operatives!

 

You can see how ur logic fails right?

 

 

Operatives win fights through massive burst damage from stealth whilst stun locking their target, followed by some hasty retreating and healing up before repeating. They are a burst DPS class!

 

Shadows specced for tanking wins fights through a war of attrition. With high defence but low single target dps, they win through self-healing. They support their team with moderate AoE damage and other utility.

 

 

They are completely separate archetypes! Asking for a nerf to shadows (tanks) because operatives (dps) can't do something is so fecking stupid its unbelievable!

 

For those struggling to kill shadow tanks in 1v1s, there is one sure fire way to do it: interupt telekinetic throw.

 

If you interupt our heal, we're screwed! You'll either be doing loads more damage than us (all DPS classes do more damage than shadow tanks) or you'll be doing more healing than us (all healers and off-healers do more healing than us) or you'll be another tank and thus have higher mitigations than us.

 

 

Do not nerf a class because other people are bad.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Notannos
use of the word retarded

[Krytycal]

Not true. Operatives are the only other stealth class, and in 1.2 they are much weaker than deception assassins, with less mobility, same damage and weaker defenses.

 

Not true, defenses are more or less the same. I prefer operatives' damage because it's front-loaded and comes with a stun. Deception sins need to set up charges and have to use an extra GCD if they want to stun you.

 

Operatives could use a gap closer though.

[Redmarx]

Operatives win fights through massive burst damage from stealth whilst stun locking their target, followed by some hasty retreating and healing up before repeating. They are a burst DPS class!

 

Shadows specced for tanking wins fights through a war of attrition. With high defence but low single target dps, they win through self-healing. They support their team with moderate AoE damage and other utility.

 

 

That "massive burst damage from stealth" has been nerfed and is being nerfed further in 1.2, as people on forums were complaining about it.

 

Just as they complained about OP tracer spam, OP sorcs and now OP assassins.

 

It's your turn next.

[anstalt]

That "massive burst damage from stealth" has been nerfed and is being nerfed further in 1.2, as people on forums were complaining about it.

 

Just as they complained about OP tracer spam, OP sorcs and now OP assassins.

 

It's your turn next.

 

Point i was making is that even after the nerf, an operatives damage on a single target is way above a shadow tank in dps gear. Like, lightyears ahead. The only burst a shadow tank can do is using relics, adrenals and force potency which every other class can do.

 

I've still yet to see an actual reason why shadow tanks need a nerf?

 

Do they do insane damage? No

Do they have insane utility? No

Do they have insane defences? No

Do they have insane healing? No

 

Shadow tanks post good damage numbers in warzones due to frequent, low damage AoE spamming which makes them seem overpowered. Shadow tanks beat bad players in 1v1 due to self healing which make them seem overpowered. But, they aren't overpowered. EVERY other class played by a good player will beat a shadow tank in a 1v1.