MMO vets what do you think Of Sw TOR

[AngryBuddhist]

I think in the end they picked the wrong engine to build this game on....

 

Yeah and that mistake is the billion dollar error.

[Dreadvg]

Played Anarchy online, wow, some rune scape and a bunch of other random mmo's that no one has ever really heard of over the past 10 years.

 

As far as how tor measures up? I'd probably put it at around AO's level currently. This game has potential for sure but I think its trying to be far to many different things at the same time and that's causing it to be spread to thin and overall lack luster. If anything BW should pick a part of the game and say "Lets start here" and focus exclusively on making that part of the game amazing and then move on to the next thing.

 

 

For now though the game is just kind of boring....

[LastChime]

Yeah, started with BBS Door Games then MUDs, beta'd UO...

 

It's alright, it's nothing amazing, the voice acting is good, but it's what I thought it would be, KoTOR online. It won't make any huge waves but doesn't look like they were looking to, it's decent enough and I'll keep playing.

 

For how long I can't say, depends on what comes up over the horizon next...there's still no Mechwarrior or X3 MMO I guess...plus GW2 if it's anything like it's predecessor will be fun, but that wasn't really an MMO (can't argue with buy 2 play sub model though), still best PvP I've ever played outside of FPSs.

[Altaira]

No offense, but Raph Koster was a cancer to MMORPG's. His philosophies and designs simply were not fully thought out nor did he take into consideration the scope of MMO gamer mentality. Coders simply cannot (could not at his time) write the kind of mechanics that he wanted to implement. While games like UO and SWG had interesting sandbox elements, they were also full of horrible exploits that ruined the fun for a lot of players.

 

Post Koster, you see a game like WoW that is tight and offers a reasonably equitable and accessible gaming experience that millions of people loved. He's doing some online stuff now and I'm glad I'll never see another of his games again.

 

Really? If anything this should be said about Travis McGeathy and Ryan Barker. The shift from actual role playing to equipment farming and raiding still churns my stomach. The sandbox element of UO is part of what made it so great. Horrible exploits have existed in every game and they always ruin the fun for a lot of players. You can't deny that UO having to deal with these items were lessons learned for future MMOs.

 

My fondest memories of UO include taking part in Order V.S. Chaos wars through the streets of a city and camping outside of a player killers keep while stealthed; to ambush him and his friends when they gated/recalled in. Hell I remember running around town dying the lamp posts colors and being afraid to visit certain dungeons by myself in case I get jumped. The importance being - it was FUN. There were no quests that you had to suffer through to go collect X from X for some exps. You didn't go kill some dragon 800 times for a 1/15th chance that the equipment you wanted dropped so you could roll on it against 6 other people.

 

All I can remember about EQ and WoW are the hundreds if not thousands of hours I spent farming equipment in raids. There is no denying that WoW is polished, fluid and fun for a while; but the objectives shifted from an adventure to a....treadmill experience.

[Blistrich]

SWTOR is the latest in a long line of mmos for me. It started with Meridian 59, and although I haven't taken all of my stops along the road all that seriously (*cough* Matrix Online, *cough* Aion, *cough*), I did delve deep enough into each one to get a genuine feel for what they were all about.

 

SWTOR is a Warcraft clone, and I don't mean "clone" in the same way that all mmos are effectively clones of the early Might & Magic games (as well as early "large commercial" forays into the genre such as Everquest), rather, I mean it in a very cut & paste way. The color coding, the nameplates, the approach to the graphics (cartoonish), the mousing-turning/button-slapping PvP, the way skill trees were designed... were all lifted directly from the industry's largest juggernaut.

 

Seriously, run the two games side-by-side. Alright, well, even if you did that with DAoC or SWG, you would see similarities, but not the way you do when you run SWTOR next to WoW. One looks like a science-fiction version of the other. Plain and simple.

 

My biggest issue with that is that Warcraft is not a particularly immersive, dynamic, or original title. Everything about it is easy-going, functional, and is utterly lacking in innovation and originality. SWG had class mixing, house/town building, harvester operation, diverse pets, and so on. EVE Online allows players to actively control the game world through a combination of brute force and legitimate political wrangling. Backstabbing, defections, treason, in-fighting, team-building are all part of the process. And Aion, well... Aion had wings.

 

SWTOR, on the other hand, took the cinematics and the storylines to incredible new heights, and the rest is just Warcraft with blasters. Both games even feature glowing swords, so SWTOR doesn't even have that to tout as a unique feature.

 

All that said, SWTOR is fun. Good, clean, casual fun. The community on my server (Harbinger) is far superior to anything you can find elsewhere, mostly because I think the bulk of us who are playing aren't playing because we're gunning to be top dog or King Troll - those guys are off soiling other venues.

[Tusken]

I started playing MMO’s with Ultima Online shortly after release (pre Trammel to say the least) and played it for 3 years. Since then I’ve played EQ, Asheron’s Call 2, EQII, DOAC, Lineage 2, SWG, WoW, Warhammer, Eve Online, Aion, Rift, and beta tested several others. Many of the aforementioned I played for years (such as WoW and especially Eve), so I think I count as a veteran.

 

I think SWTOR is a great game. It isn’t the end all be all but it gets far far more right than it does wrong. No game is perfect and if you jump into this genre over any length of time you will realize there is no holy grail, end all be all, pinnacle of gaming perfection. These types of games are just too big and too vast to be perfect.

 

SWTOR gives you:

-Immersion (I remember in SWG people stating often how “Un’-Star Wars’y it felt)

-Battlegrounds (Anyone remember WoW before those came out?)

-Rewarded PvP (you do gain valor and tokens for gear progression)/ and IMHO

-Rewarding PvP (This is evident by the mostly short wait times. People enjoy it!)

-A fun and engaging story for your character

-It does a good job making you feel like a hero (which isn’t to be confused with unconquerable juggernaut)

-Replay Value

-Player housing (although a tad sterile right now since you can’t customize the insides… Yet)

-Interesting Sidekicks

-The ability to be viable in PvE AND PvP solo (On behalf of many of us old codgers with carriers and families, thank you Bio-Ware!)

-Solid PvE both world and Instanced

 

IMHO there is room for improvement with things like:

-Making crafting more viable and necessary.

-Creating a better player run economy.

-Mini-games (Sabacc anyone?)

-More end game content.

 

Overall this game is a great product even though it’s still in its infancy. I’m excited to see what will be coming down the rail in the years to come.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Tusken

[Aragost]

Without people like Koster the MMO Genre may never have caught on, give a little credit where it's due.

 

He's also built his resume along a different type of MMO, mainly Sandbox, something people who have little experience with simply, can't understand. In terms of vision the real sandbox MMO's are still light years ahead of Themepark games, even if the technology behind them is outdated.

 

^What you said.

 

If tomorrow someone sat down with a bunch of devs and told them they were creating SWG, using the technology/brains/knowledge/whateverelse that MMO's have behind them these days, the game would be absolutely incredible (Assuming that it had some you know, content, that was optional for people not keen on the sandbox grind). Problem is that because it was made back then, and made with idea so complex they had no idea how to implement them it sucked, that type of game wont see much real investment for a very long time

[TheNegotiator]

MMO veteran huh? You going to put that on your resume?

[maticlandarr]

No offense, but Raph Koster was a cancer to MMORPG's. His philosophies and designs simply were not fully thought out nor did he take into consideration the scope of MMO gamer mentality. Coders simply cannot (could not at his time) write the kind of mechanics that he wanted to implement. While games like UO and SWG had interesting sandbox elements, they were also full of horrible exploits that ruined the fun for a lot of players.

 

Post Koster, you see a game like WoW that is tight and offers a reasonably equitable and accessible gaming experience that millions of people loved. He's doing some online stuff now and I'm glad I'll never see another of his games again.

 

I like how your reason for why he sucks is that hes ahead of his time.

[dotred]

Ultima Online (from 2001-2005ish)

WoW (2011)

 

I played one or two of those korean mmo's as well but they don't feel similar to what ToR and the above mentioned were, so I won't include them.

 

From personal experience, the PvE is very single player-ish but since I played past what I guess is considered "the golden age" of WoW (that is to say, I believe in the time I played it was pretty stagnant), there wasn't much of a difference in that most people were level capped and I never really quested with anyone. What ToR did improve on, however, was making it more enjoyable through cinematics whereas WoW was stale and dry in comparison when leveling and I honestly don't know any of the story line to that game having played it for the time I did. It was just a grind fest until I got to 85, which then immediately became a quest to farm gear for Raiding. Really boring.

 

As I've said about previous MMO's and open world PVP - everything is crap in comparison to UO. Ultima was the only MMO that didn't babysit you whenever you went outside, holding your hand (and gear) whenever you died and safely reacquiring all that. The mechanics of UO were different in that all your gear was typically player crafted, but dying in PVP often resulted in your current inventory being openly lootable until you ress'd and retrieved whatever was left (and unlooted by enemy players). In today's present standards, I'd imagine most people would ***** and complain about how hard it was to save up for that loot, hence why I consider most pvper's in today's MMO world babied in terms of the consequences you suffer for dying in open world pvp. ToR makes almost little differentiation in this in comparison to WoW, and focuses more on just the skill aspect of PVP instead of the reward. I also hate the dissociation with Rank and gear that ToR is headed down (that is to say, removing the valor cap on gear) as it means more unskilled players will be attaining higher level gear making it harder to distinguish good players from the bad simply via observation - that is until you fight them and realize how much of a waste of your time it is to have challenged them to a duel or having engaged them in a Warzone.

 

The game types in Warzone however, are similar in enjoyment to that of WoW's with the exception of Huttball, which is a refreshing new take on the PVP category of MMO's from those that I've played.

 

OPs, Heroics, and Flashpoints are pretty ho-hum - again, cinematic but considerably easy.

[maticlandarr]

MMO veteran huh? You going to put that on your resume?

 

Depending on the job being applied for, yes.

[Gendaito]

Played MMO since 2006 , the graph. are awesome...

 

But the game feels unfinished..

 

Questing gets boring very fast

 

PvP is a failure compaired to other games

 

I punched the uninstall button today.

 

I might take another look in 6 months or so....but for now its over for me.

 

a shame really , since i expected much of the game.:(

[KalTorrak]

Oh the contrary, Most true Vets / Hardcore Players do not care for the odd bug and lack of content to an extent, They accept the fact that not every game is perfect and there will always be waiting for new content.

 

True gamers have patience and understanding, not short tempered kids who cry for new content and nerfs constantly when things dont go their way.

 

I think you are mistaking MMO Vets with Star Wars Fans.

Edited April 5, 2012 by KalTorrak

[Drunkwolf]

1999 Asherons Call

 

many other games from then untill now allways end up back in Asherons Call because its STILL the best pvp i have ever played.

 

This games pvp is utter dog ****, i think im just burnt out on games with 2 factions and classes. and im sick and tired of every game having stealth and CC. i miss the old days of pvp in AC when skill mattered not gear and CC or getting the jump on sombody because your freaking invisible.

 

i mean who came up with that anyways? turning invisible sounds like somthing a mage would do not a roague class. turning invisible is f-ing magic.

[TheNegotiator]

Depending on the job being applied for, yes.

 

Oh that's gonna go over great! Next!

[Slow-Motion]

 

As I've said about previous MMO's and open world PVP - everything is crap in comparison to UO. Ultima was the only MMO that didn't babysit you whenever you went outside, holding your hand (and gear) whenever you died and safely reacquiring all that. The mechanics of UO were different in that all your gear was typically player crafted, but dying in PVP often resulted in your current inventory being openly lootable until you ress'd and retrieved whatever was left (and unlooted by enemy players).

 

 

EvE does quite well in that department, even though people can feel the game design's trend shifting bit for bit to the less hardcore side (concordoken, in highsec and so on).

 

mmos:

 

Everquest

WoW

AoC

EvE (still playing).

 

As for SW:TOR, the leveling experience tasted really good. Probably the best I've ever played by now. Unlike many here, I am amazed of the PvE quality of this game after only few month of launch, yet I am aware of the not-so-well-polished PvP part of the game.

 

I see great potential and countless of features this game could have within in the future, as the foundation to build them is already there.

 

As a PvP fan I fear only one thing though (if you can call it "fear"; rather not as I never was a fanboy of any particular company besides blizzard pre War3) and this thing is anything inspired on the game visions of an awful guy called Greg Street, the destroyer of (decent) games.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Slow-Motion

[Bazookabill]

Game needs Warhammer style rvr, the most fun I ever had pvping

was leveling up in the rvr lakes. Realm versus realm with tiers of gear unlocked every 10 levels to match progression.

[paincleef]

I plan on writing a complete review of swtor, but just haven't found the time to get it all down. Some points and observations of my gaming experience so far: Exceptional pve experience while leveling. Swtor sets a new standard for questing/leveling.

 

Pvp landscape does not feel as polished - illum just isn't working. Too many bad / uncompetitive players in warzones. 1.2 might help with more customizable ui.

[HoosierDuke]

Where is the Mythic PvP team that gave us great objectives and rewards like DAoC and Warhammer?

 

That made me chuckle....

 

The "Mythic Touch" is evident all over this game ... as a matter of fact, when I first played the beta, I told a friend the game reminded me of War (not WoW), especially in polish and feel .... and never keeping track of Mythic after I left WAR, was unaware that they had been bought by EA and had been incorporated into Bioware.

 

Once I found out about the acquisition, my statement made more sense than it was originally intended.

Edited April 7, 2012 by HoosierDuke

[HoosierDuke]

It's totally possible for one team to win a warzone without doing ANY PvP for a sustained period (Think about it before responding with a quick troll) and that's a core design flaw- and a HUGE one at that.

 

Thats a stretch ... if the other team is trying.

 

Seriously, talk about a troll statement.

[HoosierDuke]

About PvP the thing that none of these MMO's have included lately is /sticking your group leader .....yhis might sound trivial but its really huge imo......you have 8 people in your PvP group and there all wandering

aimlessly.

 

Even PuGs in DAoC would maintain tight formation approaching a fight then spread

on INC.......but also all 3 realms have a "speed class" (Bard,Minstrel, Skald) that usually drive their groups

while barking commands in Ventrilo. It makes for INTENSE action too say the least.

 

If we could just get a Developer into a DAoC 8man and or Bomb Group they would feel totally immersed in the PvP/RvR.....and I bet they would sit down and think how to build on this great PvP concept.

 

TLDR :Put the option too /stick your group leader in these games , and no /Follow just is not the same. Also add a main speed class too each faction AND a main CC class to each faction. In Swtor everyone has CC and its ROUGH!!!

 

Of course fix Ilum or start over with a totally new open world rvr/pvp zone....they do these 3 easy things and the PvP in SWTOR would be vastly improved

 

Revised TLDR ... I want DAOC with lightsaber's please!

 

Maybe you should also start a campaign to bring back the BUFFBOT! Makes the SUB numbers look great!

[RobNightfall]

I think quite poorly of it, too be honest. I can't motivate myself to play any more and hit the forums once or twice a day in the hopes of reading good news before my multi-month sub runs out.

Oh, and for the play history:

SWG x4 years (pre-CU, post-CU, and even NGE)

LOTRO x1 year

Guild Wars x1 year

AoC x1 year

Rift x6 months

[Cowflab]

I think quite poorly of it, too be honest. I can't motivate myself to play any more and hit the forums once or twice a day in the hopes of reading good news before my multi-month sub runs out.

Oh, and for the play history:

SWG x4 years (pre-CU, post-CU, and even NGE)

LOTRO x1 year

Guild Wars x1 year

AoC x1 year

Rift x6 months

 

So you can't find the motivation to log in but you still find motivation to come on the forum with all the other haters and cry babies. That's your problem right there! This is by far the worst, whiniest, self entitled MMO forum crowd I've ever seen.

 

My opinion on the game is a positive one, but then again I'm a realist. The game is young so I don't expect the 7 years of polish like wow or a full weeks worth of end game PvE content. The leveling was by far the best designed and smoothest I've ever played. PvP is getting better as changes are implemented and the future looks bright imo.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Cowflab

[Xorgith]

I played NWN online back before the days of WoW.

 

- Gear progression is fun but not when it's bottle-necked into a progressive grind.

 

- PVP should be fun if you are not having fun in PVP then a different game may give you the fun you wish.

 

- Map design is very important, maps need to be designed in ways to prevent spawn camping.

 

- The losing side needs incentives and chances to actually continue to do things other than waiting for the game to end while being farmed.

 

- Time spent should not be an automatic ticket to stomp players who have spent less time in the game. However, those who spend more time should be rewarded with things such as:

1. Unique titles, visuals, companions, etc... for performance, consistency, and time spent.

2. A slight advantage over brand new players, but done in a way that still requires you to play well to beat a good player.

 

- Random buffs and things in the maps to allow brand new players and long playing players to receive a noticeable advantage for a limited time.

 

- No lock-downs until dead instances. No one likes this, that is why I believe all types of crowd control including knock-backs, slows, stuns, incapacitation, etc... should all share the same diminishing returns timer, this timer should kick in each time an ability is cast on a player so casting multiple CCs on a player at the same time or within 1-2 seconds of each other would see them become immune for 8-10 seconds almost instantly. The timer could work on an 8sec - 5sec - 2sec - immune(8-10sec) basis. Using an ability that only lasts 4sec as the first CC would obviously be not as good as an 8sec one.

 

- Dual-Spec, this is required in any MMO these days that wants to base the game on the unholy trinity of Tank, healer, DPS.

[Weezmc]

Actually the company "verant " created EQ, sony bought them out after a year or 2, first expansion that SONY made was shadows of luclin...remember the one where they changed the game engine to make it more like wow and lost 1/2 their playerbase?

 

Yea, that.

 

Incidentally this is also the #1 reason most games are complete crap nowadays. Their all made by big coorporations instead of by people that actually enjoy the genre...it's all numbers and market research data...and no fun.

 

Except your both right and both wrong, Verant was a Sony subsidiary, later bought and put under management of it's SOE division. And what Sony did was started releasing 2 expansions a year which pissed everyone off WoW wasn't even out when they released shadows, Wow came out about the same time as Omens of War, after back to back legacy of yk, lost dungeons and gates of discord, all pretty crappy except for lost dungeons trying to copy Anarchy Onlines dynamic quest system. SOE do no wrong trying to cash cow everything killed it.