Why were Sorcerers ever considered OP?

[Emrakkia]

They have good group utility, are good at running the ball/assisting the ball carrier in Huttball, and can heal.

 

That's about all I've got. 1v1's were a joke, my Tankassin, Marauder, and PT Pyro could smoke them without a second thought. They had no burst and their best ability (Force Lightning) was channeled, so it was interrupt city on that.

 

They are OP. I would bring up points, but I'm sure many have already done so. If you are not OP as a sorc/sage (and this is coming from someone wtih a sage alt, btw) then you are playing an unoptimized sorc/sage.

[Varicite]

They are OP. I would bring up points, but I'm sure many have already done so. If you are not OP as a sorc/sage (and this is coming from someone wtih a sage alt, btw) then you are playing an unoptimized sorc/sage.

 

Or they are playing against competent teams.

[Guioki]

Sniper's 4 piece is +5 yards to distract, too.

 

 

Even if we just leave it at just a CC "headcount" and completely ignore range, resources and cooldowns, you missed extricate - 7 each.

 

Or even better - read next post.

 

Extricate is not a CC? That is why I included it in the next para with the ptechs damage mitigating abilities such as taunt.

[Blasphemerr]

I'm not certain that individually sorcerers are overpowered, probably just slightly better than all other classes. I find that they are the most played warzone class, and because of that they it's pretty easy to then suppose why people want them nerfed.

[biowareftw]

A better question is, why are you such crybabies. Blizzard famously said a mage keyboard has all Q's on it, due to them being the biggest babies in that game.

 

Congrats sorc/sages. You have one upped them. You are now the biggest crybaby class ever seen in an MMO.

 

Despite them making a class that a monkey could excel on, you still cry about a hybrid spec that was never intended being nerfed.

 

As full balance/madness you get a root, a knockback, a ranged stun with no travel time (other classes don't have this), a sprint, a RANGED slow, a RANGED interrupt, a bubble that can't be purged/dispelled in this game (instant heal) that can be placed on other people, a friendly grip, a main nuke that autokites and is channeled (much better then having a cast time), passive healing, a force dispel, an instant cast mez that turns into a stun.

 

Let me sum this up for you. The decent players who play your class have no problem at all topping dmg as full balance/madness. IF you can't do well as full balance/madness? You are just plain horrible.

 

Have fun blaming your computer when you reroll the next perceived FOTM class. You prob did the same thing with your nintendo.

 

Old vid, different game. Still applies to the people in this thread.

 

 

[Emrakkia]

Or they are playing against competent teams.

 

Please.

I understand your desire to avoid the nerfbat, but everyone can now see the numbers coming out of the PTS combat logs. We're not just theorizing anymore.

 

The drumbeat for sorc/sages to be nerfed will become a full-fledged orchestra once combat logs go to production servers.

[Ortof]

please list all our special CCs that other classes don't have. and if played properly, a hybrid madness/lightning sorc can run out of force pretty fast. it seems that you are clueless friend.

 

Lets play some poker....

 

I play a Pyro Merc, how about we start with I have concussion shot and electro dart, both on a 1 min CD and one breaks on any damage, oh and I can slow people for 2 seconds. I have a bubble that mitigates 25% damage for a few seconds on a long CD (spare me the heavy armor aka bubble plate heals bulls***). My only escape is 1 CD (determination) on a long CD as well. And I have 1 knockback in my spec.

 

Not talking damage here as I can certainly go into that if you wish, but you won't like it.

 

I call, whats in your hybrid hand?

Edited March 28, 2012 by Ortof

[Altruismo]

Extricate is not a CC? That is why I included it in the next para with the ptechs damage mitigating abilities such as taunt.

 

It's as much a CC as a Grapple is - just because it's used on a friendly doesn't make it not so.

Much like a knockback, the end result is that the friendly is seperated from unfriendlies, often more effectively than any knockback can do it (ignores resolve).

[Varicite]

A better question is, why are you such crybabies. Blizzard famously said a mage keyboard has all Q's on it, due to them being the biggest babies in that game.

 

Congrats sorc/sages. You have one upped them. You are now the biggest crybaby class ever seen in an MMO.

 

Despite them making a class that a monkey could excel on, you still cry about a hybrid spec that was never intended being nerfed.

 

As full balance/madness you get a root, a knockback, a ranged stun with no travel time (other classes don't have this), a sprint, a RANGED slow, a RANGED interrupt, a bubble that can't be purged/dispelled in this game (instant heal) that can be placed on other people, a friendly grip, a main nuke that autokites and is channeled (much better then having a cast time), passive healing, a force dispel, an instant cast mez that turns into a stun.

 

Let me sum this up for you. The decent players who play your class have no problem at all topping dmg as full balance/madness. IF you can't do well as full balance/madness? You are just plain horrible.

 

Have fun blaming your computer when you reroll the next perceived FOTM class. You prob did the same thing with your nintendo.

 

Old vid, different game. Still applies to the people in this thread.

 

 

Why do you still seem to think that standing still = kiting?

 

Also, you are a much bigger crybaby than any mage or sorc that I've ever seen, when it comes to hybrids.

 

I'm still trying to find a class in this game that a monkey couldn't excel on, and I haven't seen one yet. No, not even Marauders, so you guys can quiet down about how "hard" your class is to play. It's not.

[Varicite]

Please.

I understand your desire to avoid the nerfbat, but everyone can now see the numbers coming out of the PTS combat logs. We're not just theorizing anymore.

 

The drumbeat for sorc/sages to be nerfed will become a full-fledged orchestra once combat logs go to production servers.

 

You don't understand much, considering I play a Pyro PT.

 

But you're right, I don't want the 6 second ICD on Prototype Particle Accelerator, but I'm sure you can find plenty about what I think on that topic if you check my post history. As far as combat logs go, certainly haven't seen any PvP parses concerning how I'm going to be faring now that my heat venting (regen) has been nerfed by 50%. But that's really an issue for another topic. : )

 

It's really funny that you say this, because anyone that I PvP w/ knows that a hybrid Sorc is the second easiest target to kill on the battlefield, right behind Arsenal Merc.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Varicite

[infamousNate]

1) They operated very well with little gear, while Melee requires you to have T2/T3 gear.

2) Near unlimited Force in Heal and DPS spec. [broke HM Operative Difficulty completely, and makes quagmires occur constantly in Voidstar/Alderran.] lies. at madness specced, i constantly OoF

3) Vast sums of CC on generous cool downs. Vast? 5 is not "vast"

4) AoE Knockback + Root. [Add in Force Speed, and you're 40+ meters away before they're free.] this is specced...sooo yea

5) Force Speed. 2 secs...less than 30m from a stationary target

6) Ranged, high damage, basic attack with 50% slow. basic attack ROOTS us in place + only does about 1500~ dmg

7) 30 meter cast breaker. 12 sec cd

8) 2.5-3.5k damage bubble regardless of spec. lies. 2.5k unspecced. the 3.5k is specced...so GG on talking outta ur ***

9) Mez on Bubble breaking. Breaks on dmg...and SPECCED

10) Ally Pull which cannot be overstated how amazing it is in Huttball. only good in 1...i repeat ONE wz. other classes have similar skills

11) Other minor utilities such as increased armor/speed when bubbled, having the best class buff in the game, and so forth. also specced... best class buff? LOL

12) Their hard counter class was nerfed every patch, and is the least played class. [Operative/Smuggler.]

13) They had numerous glitches which allowed them to double proc huge heals with low cost/cast times.1 glitch..is not numerous. go pick up a copy of a book called dictionary to look up "numerous"

14) The game in PVE hates melee dps due to various mechanics which prevent them from having any level of sustained DPS.thats a game issue...not sorc.

 

Since it wasn't clear, this isn't saying that all Sorcerers have these abilities, but rather a list of the various reasons they were considered OP.

 

 

the ammount of stupidity here was....priceless..

 

i FTFY btw.

[Varicite]

15% crit on a 5k 90% armor ignoring attack has to be the best 4 piece

 

I agree. I enjoy it immensely. : )

 

Too bad it wasn't actually made for us, and the 2pc bonus is worthless. :c

[Tourne]

Why don't I make a list of every classes abilities, and count their skills twice or thrice in a list of "why they're overpowered," pretend they have 31/31/31 spec, and demand a nerf?

 

 

That pretty much sums it up- all the complainers pop up these mythical 31/31/31 specs and demand something be done about it...

 

Sorc/Sage had never been OP, never once have I noticed them not drop while like flies when playing my Sent, PT or Op...they would be even more of a joke if I rolled up an Assassin.

 

Sure, eight of them pounding on you is bound to be an issue...but what about eight Mara's- you would be dead before the first one finished his animation sequence.

[Guioki]

Your list was a little short. I hope that you wouldn't be intentionally leaving things off of it in order to make it seem like Sorcs have less CC than they actually do, would you?

 

Hybrid Sorc has:

 

Electrocute, Instant Whirlwind + 2 sec stun when broken, Knockback + Root on 20 sec cd, AoE mez on 20 sec cd, Force Slow, 30m ranged interrupt, Force Speed (can be used w/ KB for interrupt, or root), Force Lightning damage + snare, Force Storm AoE damage + snare.

 

So that's actually 9 points, and I haven't even listed the utility of Static Barrier, the pull, or heals.

 

I'm not really sure why I have to explain your own class to you.

 

Also, we were talking about how much CC a Sorc has, not general utility. Maybe you should try to read the posts that you are quoting.

 

Force sprint is a CC?

 

Maybe you should read the post your quoting, where I listed in a separate para the other utility that wouldn't be considered CC such as sprint, bubble, life grip vs taunt guard aoe taunt 4% damage reduction aoe, single target 4% damage reduction, bubble, 20% aoe accuracy reduction.

 

Then also compare the fact that of the 8 CC's you listed, 3 are slows that dont stack, 1 is the shortest range knockback in the game with a snare that breaks on damage from a class that procs extra damage off dots, only 1 is a stun, 1 is a 3 second aoe mez that the sorc has little control over and breaks from damage, 1 is a 8 second mez that stuns for 2 seconds on damage when talented which will give a full resolve bar for doing 700 damage. Mostly average counterproductive CC's.

 

Ptech has same stun, 2.5 second aoe stun, Leap which interrupts and gives a speed boost, grapple with 3 second snare, stealth detect with snare, slow attached to main damage ability. (I think it even has another slow attached to one of its channeled attacks but can't confirm) All good quality CC.

 

Basically a sorc has knockback mez stun aoe mez and interrupt, 5 ways to interrupt a cast (dont really think you can count aoe mez as one of these), Ptech has leap grapple stun aoe stun and interrupt to stop a cast.

 

Both classes have very similar amounts of CC, both have different uses. Basically what I'm trying to say is that sorcs are in NO way OP (OP means that they are more powerful then they should be, not just good at something).

[biowareftw]

Why do you still seem to think that standing still = kiting?

 

Also, you are a much bigger crybaby than any mage or sorc that I've ever seen, when it comes to hybrids.

 

I'm still trying to find a class in this game that a monkey couldn't excel on, and I haven't seen one yet. No, not even Marauders, so you guys can quiet down about how "hard" your class is to play. It's not.

 

You only need to stand still for how many ticks it takes to proc on hybrid. It is NOTHING like playing a commando/merc or slinger/sniper. A) you have a 50 percent ranged slow. Both REAL pvp specs of both those classes lack one B) You spam channeled, till proc. RUN from the target while casting the instant (takes a global). Repeat. Use knockbacks and CC's when needed.

 

BTW I would obliterate your dmg on a sage/sorc. I betad this stupid class. I was never as bored in any MMO as I was playing this class. It was a joke. LOS literally meant I had to TRY to die on this dumb OP spec. I reported the hybrid spec OP then and oh look...guess who was right.

 

But yeah I am a crybaby because I reported a spec was stupidly OP and way too easy to play (and not even fun due to how easy it was), and now it is being nerfed.

 

Sorry buddy I am not crying. I am amazed they let you play the hybrid spec this long before it was nerfed to be honest lol.

 

I am LAUGHING at you idiots to be honest. All you do is cry 24/7 when you have a spec that is perfectly viable in pvp (balance/madness) and is STILL boring to play and easy to master.

 

Now report me you big baby.

 

This sums up this entire pathetic thread.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I

Edited March 28, 2012 by biowareftw

[Guioki]

A better question is, why are you such crybabies. Blizzard famously said a mage keyboard has all Q's on it, due to them being the biggest babies in that game.

 

Congrats sorc/sages. You have one upped them. You are now the biggest crybaby class ever seen in an MMO.

 

As full balance/madness you get a root, a knockback, a ranged stun with no travel time (other classes don't have this), a sprint, a RANGED slow, a RANGED interrupt, a bubble that can't be purged/dispelled in this game (instant heal) that can be placed on other people, a friendly grip, a main nuke that autokites and is channeled (much better then having a cast time), passive healing, a force dispel, an instant cast mez that turns into a stun.

 

 

QQ much? Crying because a ranged class has ranged abilities?

[Varicite]

Force sprint is a CC?

 

Maybe you should read the post your quoting, where I listed in a separate para the other utility that wouldn't be considered CC such as sprint, bubble, life grip vs taunt guard aoe taunt 4% damage reduction aoe, single target 4% damage reduction, bubble, 20% aoe accuracy reduction.

 

Then also compare the fact that of the 8 CC's you listed, 3 are slows that dont stack, 1 is the shortest range knockback in the game with a snare that breaks on damage from a class that procs extra damage off dots, only 1 is a stun, 1 is a 3 second aoe mez that the sorc has little control over and breaks from damage, 1 is a 8 second mez that stuns for 2 seconds on damage when talented which will give a full resolve bar for doing 700 damage. Mostly average counterproductive CC's.

 

Ptech has same stun, 2.5 second aoe stun, Leap which interrupts and gives a speed boost, grapple with 3 second snare, stealth detect with snare, slow attached to main damage ability. (I think it even has another slow attached to one of its channeled attacks but can't confirm) All good quality CC.

 

Basically a sorc has knockback mez stun aoe mez and interrupt, 5 ways to interrupt a cast (dont really think you can count aoe mez as one of these), Ptech has leap grapple stun aoe stun and interrupt to stop a cast.

 

Both classes have very similar amounts of CC, both have different uses. Basically what I'm trying to say is that sorcs are in NO way OP (OP means that they are more powerful then they should be, not just good at something).

 

Well, in the post that you quoted again, there are parentheses pointing out exactly how Force Speed can be used in order to CC someone, which I can only assume you either missed or didn't bother to read (again).

 

I'd also love for you to find any place where I have ever called a Sorc OP, for any reason whatsoever. I'm just telling it like it is.

 

Hybrid Sorcs have more CC options at one time than any other class, and then also bring a lot of utility on their own. In exchange for this, they had only "okay" single-target damage and very good AoE ability.

 

In 1.2, they will have mediocre AoE ability, "okay" single-target damage, and less CC options at one time than a lot of classes. But they'll still have Force Sprint, Bubble, and Extricate, so people will still call them OP.

 

After all, it sure wasn't their amazing single target damage that (intelligent) people complained about.

[Guioki]

It's as much a CC as a Grapple is - just because it's used on a friendly doesn't make it not so.

Much like a knockback, the end result is that the friendly is seperated from unfriendlies, often more effectively than any knockback can do it (ignores resolve).

 

Extricate has no effect on an enemy, it helps a friendly. If were going to count it as a CC then so is guard/taunt/aoe taunt/aoe accuracy reduction/4% damage reduction debuff because they all prevent damage to a friendly. Then we start adding heals into CC, then damage because dead enemies don't do damage.

 

You don't want to go down that path do you?

[Ortof]

Extricate has no effect on an enemy, it helps a friendly. If were going to count it as a CC then so is guard/taunt/aoe taunt/aoe accuracy reduction/4% damage reduction debuff because they all prevent damage to a friendly. Then we start adding heals into CC, then damage because dead enemies don't do damage.

 

You don't want to go down that path do you?

 

I think what he was referring to, and I am pretty sure you are baiting him on this, is that grapple can and does completely remove a target from being damaged while everything else you listed only mitigates some damage. There is a difference especially when you are talking about a 3D environment that Hutball is.

 

Just saying.

[Varicite]

You only need to stand still for how many ticks it takes to proc on hybrid. It is NOTHING like playing a commando/merc or slinger/sniper. A) you have a 50 percent ranged slow. Both REAL pvp specs of both those classes lack one B) You spam channeled, till proc. RUN from the target while casting the instant (takes a global). Repeat. Use knockbacks and CC's when needed.

 

BTW I would obliterate your dmg on a sage/sorc. I betad this stupid class. I was never as bored in any MMO as I was playing this class. It was a joke. LOS literally meant I had to TRY to die on this dumb OP spec. I reported the hybrid spec OP then and oh look...guess who was right.

 

But yeah I am a crybaby because I reported a spec was stupidly OP and way too easy to play (and not even fun due to how easy it was), and now it is being nerfed.

 

Sorry buddy I am not crying. I am amazed they let you play the hybrid spec this long before it was nerfed to be honest lol.

 

I am LAUGHING at you idiots to be honest. All you do is cry 24/7 when you have a spec that is perfectly viable in pvp (balance/madness) and is STILL boring to play and easy to master.

 

Now report me you big baby.

 

This sums up this entire pathetic thread.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7nqwGt4-I

 

You act like it procs in half a channel every single time you cast it. It doesn't.

 

And you still can't seem to get it through your head that I play a Powertech, even though we've been over this countless times by now. I've even mentioned it in this thread, on the very page that you quoted me, lol.

 

We all know you never beta'd anything and probably never even got to 50 on your Sorc, as you have been called out so many times on your lack of knowledge about the class.

 

It's okay that you can't beat one of the worst 1v1 classes in the game, but it's definitely not because they are OP.

[Altruismo]

Basically what I'm trying to say is that sorcs are in NO way OP (OP means that they are more powerful then they should be, not just good at something).

 

I think you'll find the guy you quoted it not arguing that they are OP.

He's saying hybrids have the most comprehensive and versatile CC set of any build, any class.

I agree with him, myself, and I'm honestly surprised to see people attempting to counterargue, and claim that they do not.

[Guioki]

I think what he was referring to, and I am pretty sure you are baiting him on this, is that grapple can and does completely remove a target from being damaged while everything else you listed only mitigates some damage. There is a difference especially when you are talking about a 3D environment that Hutball is.

 

Just saying.

 

I know exactly what he is referring to, however extricate requires an ally to use on, and doesn't help the sorc at all, so is more in the class of a heal or guard as it has no effect on the enemy.

[Blasphemerr]

I get why sorcerers are upset, getting nerfed sucks. But really, who didn't see it coming? There were "nerf sorcerers" threads pretty much the first day of official release.

[Altruismo]

I think what he was referring to, and I am pretty sure you are baiting him on this, is that grapple can and does completely remove a target from being damaged while everything else you listed only mitigates some damage. There is a difference especially when you are talking about a 3D environment that Hutball is.

 

Just saying.

 

Or more specifically, I call it a CC for the exact reason I said in the post he quoted:

 

"the end result is that the friendly is seperated from unfriendlies" (copied complete with my typo )

 

Just like a Kockback, even with interupt potential if you move the friendly out of LOS.

 

The other utility powers he's talking about do not do that.

[Tourne]

You act like it procs in half a channel every single time you cast it. It doesn't.

 

And you still can't seem to get it through your head that I play a Powertech, even though we've been over this countless times by now. I've even mentioned it in this thread, on the very page that you quoted me, lol.

 

Everyone else understands that you play a PT, not a Sorc...

 

Another thing that he fails to understand is that you can't run, channel tick, run, channel tick, insta cast anymore...they fixed the GCD for that back awhile ago.

 

Dunno what anyone would find hard about a Sorc/Sage...unless they are BM geared and you are a fresh 50- even then it's really not an issue to take them 1v1.