The question of the month: Will you keep your subscription up? and why?

[JeramieCrowe]

People are complaining at 50 because once you get to 50, you spend a week or two getting nearly the best gear available, repeatedly playing the same warzone or LFG FP in fleet for hours, and then it's over unless you're really into hard mode+ raiding.

 

The gameplay in SWTOR isn't good enough, and it might not matter if the story wasn't boring and completely linear (and a minority of levelling content too).

 

I remember at least a handful of instances in Mass Effect where I cried, burst out cheering/laughing, or had to get up and take a walk to really consider what I was about to do in the game.

 

I didn't feel a single thing playing the story in SWTOR because they tore the soul out of choice and consequence... and made uninspired generic characters I couldn't care less about. Wait, that's not true... I did feel anger and resentment at my stupid companions and their whiny insignificant problems. Probably not what they were going for though.

 

You're still missing one big thing. The very thing that BioWare has stated was one of the engame activities for this MMO, and even stated that it wouldn't be for everyone: Experiencing the other 7 unique storylines. That, itself, is MONTHS worth of gaming.

 

I have 11 characters. Two at 50, two at 42, the rest done with Chapter One, and even replaying my favorite storylines on another server with another 3 characters. And I'm NOT the minority here.

 

I've played KotOR 12 times. KotOR2 8 times. Mass Effect several times, Mass Effect 2 a few times, and currently replaying both Mass Effect 1 and 2 to play 3. Again, MILLIONS of people have done the same.

 

The fact is, BioWare storytelling, by itself, has replay value, much less playing 8 characters to 50 for the 40% unique, non-repeated class storyline.

 

BioWare has stated for literally YEARS that this is the gameplay at endgame to be expected. YEARS. And people are acting surprised now? That perplexes me to no end.

 

If people can't see the value in that, then BioWare has already acknowleged, years ago, that this isn't the game for you. Personally, I don't see the reason to bash a game for delivering EXACTLY what they said they would for the last 4 years. I don't see it all.

[JeramieCrowe]

I just have to say, did the mods just clean out most of the "I cancelled my sub, etc etc" posts? because all I see are the supportive posts. I swear not all of them were non-constructive, I suppose you have to protect the image of the game eh?

 

Actually, no. They deleted the ones that were against the terms, including the ones supporting the game. I know, a couple of mine got deleted, too. Guess I was a bit too harsh...

[Gungan]

You're still missing one big thing. The very thing that BioWare has stated was one of the engame activities for this MMO, and even stated that it wouldn't be for everyone: Experiencing the other 7 unique storylines. That, itself, is MONTHS worth of gaming.

 

I have 11 characters. Two at 50, two at 42, the rest done with Chapter One, and even replaying my favorite storylines on another server with another 3 characters. And I'm NOT the minority here.

 

I've played KotOR 12 times. KotOR2 8 times. Mass Effect several times, Mass Effect 2 a few times, and currently replaying both Mass Effect 1 and 2 to play 3. Again, MILLIONS of people have done the same.

 

The fact is, BioWare storytelling, by itself, has replay value, much less playing 8 characters to 50 for the 40% unique, non-repeated class storyline.

 

BioWare has stated for literally YEARS that this is the gameplay at endgame to be expected. YEARS. And people are acting surprised now? That perplexes me to no end.

 

If people can't see the value in that, then BioWare has already acknowleged, years ago, that this isn't the game for you. Personally, I don't see the reason to bash a game for delivering EXACTLY what they said they would for the last 4 years. I don't see it all.

 

You keep touting the stories like they're the main content in the game, except you keep ignoring the fact that the storytelling in this game is miles inferior to previous BioWare titles. It's not worth repeating like BioWare Edmonton titles. It is devoid of emotion, and completely generic like every other MMO.

 

Storytelling is the fourth pillar in this MMO (and I hesistate to call it one). Not the first. It's not good enough to stand on its own. Period.

 

This game reeks of Mythic.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan

[JeramieCrowe]

You keep touting the stories like they're the main content in the game, except you keep ignoring the fact that the storytelling in this game is miles inferior to previous BioWare titles. It's not worth repeating like BioWare Edmonton titles. It is devoid of emotion, and completely generic like every other MMO.

 

Storytelling is the fourth pillar in this MMO (and I hesistate to call it one). Not the first. It's not good enough to stand on its own. Period.

 

This game reeks of Mythic.

 

And you keep touting the subjective opinion that the storytelling in this game is inferior like its objective fact. It's not good to YOU. I get that.

 

But to me, and many of my friends, it's some of the best BioWare storytelling to date. Definitely better than any of the KotORs.

 

The bottom line is that even DA2 and ME3 sales show the fact that obviously many millions did, in fact, enjoy the story. BioWare's statistics, after sales, show that, too. The fact that the the ending of ME3 got people talking, EXACTLY what BioWare planned, is quite telling, too. Think the end if ME3 is all she wrote?

 

Think again.

[SkuzBukit]

I've "suspended" my commitment to the game by unsubbing in protest at a whole bunch of different issues.

 

In the meantime I have a few months of play & time enough to see what 1.2 brings and perhaps an outline of what to expect from 1.3, I'll roll a few more characters to 50, see the other class stories but I won't be surprised if many do not return & indeed more leave the game before 1.2 ever arrives.

 

Some big competition due to arrive shortly, and I think it will definitely hurt this game that so much of 1.2 took so long to be in the game. EA/BioWare have failed to understand the MMO market, despite thinking they knew what players wanted & trying to provide them with what they thought they would want they missed to mark on too many fronts & I think in the future will have to re-examine their design if they ever intend to put out another MMO.

 

Story may well be the 4th pillar, but you really have to get the 1st 3 right or the whole roof will come falling in on your head.

[Gungan]

And you keep touting the subjective opinion that the storytelling in this game is inferior like its objective fact. It's not good to YOU. I get that.

 

But to me, and many of my friends, it's some of the best BioWare storytelling to date. Definitely better than any of the KotORs.

 

The bottom line is that even DA2 and ME3 sales show the fact that obviously many millions did, in fact, enjoy the story. BioWare's statistics, after sales, show that, too. The fact that the the ending of ME3 got people talking, EXACTLY what BioWare planned, is quite telling, too. Think the end if ME3 is all she wrote?

 

Think again.

 

Yeah sure it is. I challenge you to describe one moment in this entire game that actually made you cry or really think about the long term implications of what you're doing for longer than 90 seconds.

 

The more you talk, the less I believe you actually know what good storytelling is.

 

I'm sure people would love to return their purchase, but this is an industry that doesn't accept returns on open packaging from dissatisfied customers.

 

DA2 sold a million fewer copies than DA:O first of all (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.274668-Dragon-Age-2-Sales). DA:O sales were strong for many weeks due to word of mouth. People pre-ordered DA2 on faith expecting a better DA:O, they didn't get it and sales after the first 2 weeks after people finished it bottomed out and spread the news of the suck.

 

As for ME3, they've already confirmed that is the ending (free extended cut DLC this summer to plug gaping plot holes), and there will be no sequels, only prequels. All they have from that debacle is a crap ton of bad word of mouth. I refer you to the above example for cause and effect of bad word of mouth.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan

[JeramieCrowe]

Yeah sure it is. I challenge you to describe one moment in this entire game that actually made you cry or really think about the implications of what you're doing for longer than 90 seconds.

 

Oh my gosh. There are too many to count! I literally rerolled one character because I made a choice by accident (son came up and accidentally hit my mouse).

 

 

After Chapter One on my Sorcerer, I literally took over an hour trying to decide if I was going to electrocute Khem or not. I went and did the Nar Shaddaa bonus series thinking about it, and even when I came back to my ship, I sat there for about 15 minutes before I finally made my decision. Still not sure I made the right one for my character's personality and upbringing!

 

 

 

At the end of Chapter 3 on my smuggler, I sat there for 30 minutes trying to decide if I was going to have the freelancing pirates work for me, or do the Republic a favor. After all, my smuggler was partially raised by a fanatical Republic soldier, but spent most of his life being bored on Tatooine, raised by his mother and step-father, and was determined to make money, although he has a good heart.

 

 

 

On my Bounty Hunter, at the end of Chapter 2, beginning of Chapter 3, I had a hard time deciding on several things in several conversations with that seeming betrayal by the Empire.

 

 

 

On my Jedi Knight, at the beginning of Chapter 2, I had a hard time being nice to Kira because of the profound things she kept from, that I had to find out the hard way, almost getting me killed in the process.

 

 

Seriously, I could go on and on and on. This was too easy.

 

Sales numbers don't mean anything in an industry that doesn't accept returns on open packaging.

 

Read my post again. I was also talking about post-sales statistics. They are quite telling, and they have been published. Google it.

 

As for ME3, they've already confirmed that is the ending, and there will be no sequels, only prequels. All they have from that debacle is a crap ton of bad word of mouth.

 

Quite possibly. I heard of alternate endings coming, though.

 

The more you talk, the less I believe you actually know what good storytelling is.

 

Don't do that. We're having a good discussion, let's not insult, okay? There are many movies whose intent was to get people talking to discuss it. The movie "Inception" comes to mind. Do you know how many people derided and absolutely hated that movie? Do you know how many loved it?

 

Controversy. It's the "In" thing now. It sells.

[FlynnFlon]

What's wrong with that? X-wings do have shields.

 

Going by the books I've read one of the pros of an x-wing is its manoeuvrability and the con was it was so small due to having no shield generator. Read dozens of books and always same. Its a small part and lore change but its still a start.

 

 

 

This thread now looks like a convo between two people.

 

I suggest you both get a room.

[FlynnFlon]

Oh my gosh. There are too many to count! I literally rerolled one character because I made a choice by accident (son came up and accidentally hit my mouse).

.

 

Hang about and you didnt just hit escape to cancel whole conversation?

 

 

Come on guys youre getting really off topic here.

[Quintan]

I can't see myself re-subscribing atm but that's mainly cause I'll be playing D3 and GW2 beta soon. I would probably continue to play this on the side of WOW if I didn't have D3 and GW2 to look forward to, so the game is not "that" bad. However, my server is also dead and that keeps me from logging on atm so in a way it is the bumps on the road that are ruining this game instead of the game itself.

[Piticao]

i just canceled my sub, due to the same reasons most people probably did too.

openword pvp? repetitive warzones as only real alternative for pvp?

it's sunday and this sheeit finaly got to me. i am not having fun anymore with the game.

i was able to play L2 for 4 years. swtor started awesome, but it's not something that will get most players to stick for too long.

 

wonder if i'll feel like loging in for the 9 days remaining.

[Gungan]

Going by the books I've read one of the pros of an x-wing is its manoeuvrability and the con was it was so small due to having no shield generator. Read dozens of books and always same. Its a small part and lore change but its still a start.

 

 

 

This thread now looks like a convo between two people.

 

I suggest you both get a room.

 

No, that's completely wrong. Every X-Wing has shields. TIE Fighters & Interceptors have higher maneuverability at the cost of no shields. This speaks to the Rebellion's vs Empire's stance on the preservation of life also.

 

I have the entire X-Wing series right next to me. I have something like 50 Star Wars books, not a single one includes X-Wings without shields.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-65_X-wing_starfighter

 

"Possessing deflector shields, a hyperdrive, an R2 astromech for repairs and navigation, and a complement of proton torpedoes, the X-wing allowed the Rebellion to launch raids in Imperial space with improved odds of a successful mission."

Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan

[Gungan]

Oh my gosh. There are too many to count! I literally rerolled one character because I made a choice by accident (son came up and accidentally hit my mouse).

 

 

After Chapter One on my Sorcerer, I literally took over an hour trying to decide if I was going to electrocute Khem or not. I went and did the Nar Shaddaa bonus series thinking about it, and even when I came back to my ship, I sat there for about 15 minutes before I finally made my decision. Still not sure I made the right one for my character's personality and upbringing!

 

 

 

At the end of Chapter 3 on my smuggler, I sat there for 30 minutes trying to decide if I was going to have the freelancing pirates work for me, or do the Republic a favor. After all, my smuggler was partially raised by a fanatical Republic soldier, but spent most of his life being bored on Tatooine, raised by his mother and step-father, and was determined to make money, although he has a good heart.

 

 

 

On my Bounty Hunter, at the end of Chapter 2, beginning of Chapter 3, I had a hard time deciding on several things in several conversations with that seeming betrayal by the Empire.

 

 

 

On my Jedi Knight, at the beginning of Chapter 2, I had a hard time being nice to Kira because of the profound things she kept from, that I had to find out the hard way, almost getting me killed in the process.

 

 

Seriously, I could go on and on and on. This was too easy.

 

 

 

Read my post again. I was also talking about post-sales statistics. They are quite telling, and they have been published. Google it.

 

 

 

Quite possibly. I heard of alternate endings coming, though.

 

 

 

Don't do that. We're having a good discussion, let's not insult, okay? There are many movies whose intent was to get people talking to discuss it. The movie "Inception" comes to mind. Do you know how many people derided and absolutely hated that movie? Do you know how many loved it?

 

Controversy. It's the "In" thing now. It sells.

 

Why? None of those choices even remotely affect the world. Have the freelancing pirates help the Republic or not, it doesn't lock out some part of the game and unlock another. The same things happen regardless. There is no tangible consequence for choosing one over the other. That probably wouldn't matter in a book, but this is an interactive medium, and that type of storytelling is a step back from what BioWare has done in the past.

 

Furthermore, the emotional tone of every story is monotonous, and not believable. Uncharted has a linear story that works because it makes you strongly care about what happens to the characters. SWTOR removes the possibility of anything bad happening to any of your companions because companions dying would gimp you too much. Who the hell cares if you electrocute Khem Val, he's still going to follow you around like a pet dog.

 

As for Inception, it clear from the start about exactly what it was. You either buy the premise, or you don't. The premise wasn't suddenly discarded in the last 10 minutes of the movie, and the quality of the screenwriting and cinematography didn't suddenly plummet to zero either... that is the problem with the ME3 ending, which is a rancid stain on an otherwise awesome game.

 

Quite possibly. I heard of alternate endings coming, though.

 

Nope. They confirmed in the forum, there will be no additional endings.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan

[DarthMeerkat]

Just got done playing GW2 beta...

 

Added 3 more months to my sub...

[heikaze]

Just got done playing GW2 beta...

 

Added 3 more months to my sub...

 

Beta is not even out yet.

[Vegan]

no... simple... really... i cant beleive they did not take the good things from swg and use them here... that would have been a good start.... these planets they made are all quest planets nothing more... what else can u do on them...?i could go on and on and on... but its pointless/.// im hoping they bring swg back at some point...this is WOW with lasers nothing more same old crap repeated over and over..

[Feuerhammer]

Maybe. I'll give it a chance before deciding.

 

I left my last MMO because there's only so many times I could run the same quests hoping for that one uber piece of gear.

 

Haven't capped though, and the leveling is okay but not great.

 

Hoping that 1.2 will add some new spice.

[GalacticKegger]

Why? None of those choices even remotely affect the world. Have the freelancing pirates help the Republic or not, it doesn't lock out some part of the game and unlock another. The same things happen regardless. There is no tangible consequence for choosing one over the other. That probably wouldn't matter in a book, but this is an interactive medium, and that type of storytelling is a step back from what BioWare has done in the past.

Actually the choices during VA quest interaction border on being amazing. If I choose to kill the NPC he/she is dead. Or I can spare their life and work the dialogue to either set them free as warnings to the enemy, or I can work the dialogue to gain an ally. Select NPC allies gained during quest interaction have important roles to play in each character's chapter 3 class quest climax. So don't blow through dialogues or piss off the wrong NPCs because they DO affect story.

 

Now if you are looking for an MMO where every player character's story is organic and affects every other player character's story in real time ... well, THAT MMORPG won't exist in our lifetimes - if ever.

Edited April 8, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[MCesca]

Yes. I like it. I'm re-subbing for the foreseeable future.

 

Now, it's my first MMO, so when the Op says "it's another WoW," I frankly don't care, nor do I have a point of reference. I'm enjoying the game as it is. I'm enjoying leveling up my 3rd character now, while still spending time with my 2 50's to build up their PvP and PVE gear. I PvP occasionally, but I prefer PVE and story. But I'm making sure my 50's are fairly well stocked for guild events and other co-op & vs adventures.

 

And frankly, I want to see all 8 stories. I have a good guild as far as "they're good people to game and socialize with." Basically, I'm getting my money's worth.

Edited April 8, 2012 by MCesca

[DarthMeerkat]

Beta is not even out yet.

 

Took part in it last week...

 

After about 20 hours the game becomes just like every other MMO out there. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed it just not enough to completely drop TOR for it. As much as Anet hyped it up, it does feel a lot like any other MMO.

[CygnusMX]

Yes. I like it. I'm re-subbing for the foreseeable future.

 

Now, it's my first MMO, so when the Op says "it's another WoW," I frankly don't care, nor do I have a point of reference. I'm enjoying the game as it is. I'm enjoying leveling up my 3rd character now, while still spending time with my 2 50's to build up their PvP and PVE gear. I PvP occasionally, but I prefer PVE and story. But I'm making sure my 50's are fairly well stocked for guild events and other co-op & vs adventures.

 

And frankly, I want to see all 8 stories. I have a good guild as far as "they're good people to game and socialize with." Basically, I'm getting my money's worth.

 

NoN-jaded WoW veteran, good post.

 

I dont care If its a Wow Clone because Wow IS a clone,and an old out dated one full of wonderful Disney charactors.Every MMO is a Clone, A Formula, Otherwise Call of Duty could be labeled a DOOM clone because you shoot guns and its in 1st person perspective.

 

Although you can ride a big turkey in WoW if thats your thing.

[Gungan]

Select NPC allies gained during quest interaction have important roles to play in each character's chapter 3 class quest climax. So don't blow through dialogues or piss off the wrong NPCs because they DO affect story.

 

No, they don't. You don't have the option to eliminate any character that is required further down in the story. It's completely linear with minor tweaks in dialogue and occasional "red shirts" to sacrifice.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan

[TheOuroborus]

Bioware has 9 days left to launch 1.2 and make it good. I give every new somewhat interesting MMO the first 30 free days plus another subscription of 3 months for me to try it out, get used to it and for the game maker to get the bugs out and update it enough that it looks like it should have at launch. 9 days is when those 4 months ends.

 

Though the new UI stuff looks promising, I really doubt both that the update will be that meaningful or useful. I've heard no word of graphics improvements (can you say "The game rocks jagged lines like it's 1999"?) or expansion of guild systems (a bank is not an expansion) like GvG play, guild rankings, guild halls/bases, guild recruiting search windows, etc etc etc.

 

I really wanted to like the game, but it bores me to tears. Will I renew my subscription? I'd have to say 99% no. I haven't even been on in days anyway. Played Tera beta this weekend. A bit dull, but seriously pretty game. I'd say Tera is what I'll play until GW2 comes out.

 

SW:TOR is a solo game with some console-like 360Live group capabilities. And that's it. Pay a monthly fee to play that? No, I honestly don't think so.

[Gungan]

Bioware has 9 days left to launch 1.2 and make it good. I give every new somewhat interesting MMO the first 30 free days plus another subscription of 3 months for me to try it out, get used to it and for the game maker to get the bugs out and update it enough that it looks like it should have at launch. 9 days is when those 4 months ends.

 

Though the new UI stuff looks promising, I really doubt both that the update will be that meaningful or useful. I've heard no word of graphics improvements (can you say "The game rocks jagged lines like it's 1999"?) or expansion of guild systems (a bank is not an expansion) like GvG play, guild rankings, guild halls/bases, guild recruiting search windows, etc etc etc.

 

I really wanted to like the game, but it bores me to tears. Will I renew my subscription? I'd have to say 99% no. I haven't even been on in days anyway. Played Tera beta this weekend. A bit dull, but seriously pretty game. I'd say Tera is what I'll play until GW2 comes out.

 

SW:TOR is a solo game with some console-like 360Live group capabilities. And that's it. Pay a monthly fee to play that? No, I honestly don't think so.

 

To be fair 1.2 allows hi res textures outside of cinematics.

[Aus_Jedi]

I am torn right now. I don't know if I will be renewing. I may want to give it 6 more months and then come back. Let them get heaps more content out and work out why the new content and updates seem to constantly get put back.

 

Also I really want them to get a bloody LFG. Sorry I am tired of typing LFG and also the population has been lower than normal - even on the weekend:(.

 

 

I really love what they have done, but unfortunely to satisfy games today you want to be really pumping out the new content. 1.2 was originally slated for March, then early April. Now they can't even say when at the PAX event, just coming soon. --- Just a bit disappointing at this stage.